bcscot

Donald: The newer HAL ships have safes that use your own code, which is better. The older ships still have the credit card activated safes which is not only a nuisance because you have to carry your credit card around (& your spouse cannot open it), but if the last person to use the safe on the previous cruise locks it, you have to get someone to open it for you before you can start to use it.

Ruby: HAL deliver a daily American newspaper 'brochure thingy', which is a condensed version of, I think it is the New York Times. On request (or according to your passport), they will also deliver a British or Canadian brochure thingy (but not every day). They now have a system where you can get a more complete version of the newspaper for a charge, if you order it.

They also have CNN on the cabin telly (TV), however we regard this as a popular sensationalist entertainment medium rather than a serious news programme.

Maybe you should try Prinsendam!

Graham.

Welcome back Michael. I am glad that you had a good trip & I look forward to hearing more about it in due course. I hope that you are now enjoying a big juicy steak!

Thank you Conte & Donald for shedding some light on the complex world of the martini. The world of single malts is certainly a lot less complicated, especially when you do not put anything in them. I will have to try putting my Bombay Sapphire in the freezer though, as I like a good G&T.

I agree Ross, that the UK, even London, is still an affordable destination. You just have to do things a little differently. As discussed before, try B&Bs, self catering & hotels on the outskirts of London & commute in on the train. At least everyone that you come into contact with does not expect a tip!

Graham.

I am totally uneducated in the field of martinis. Both Conte & Donald (not to mention 007) have professed their love for this famous form of beverage. Looking at the martini list on HAL ships, they seem to concoct all manner of sweet & dry mixtures that go by the name of martini, having only gin or vodka in common. The purists however (like Conte), seem to enjoy almost pure straight gin with a hint of dry vermouth & a green olive. Is this the case?

Conte: Does such a tiny addition of dry vermouth make much difference to the taste of neat gin, & does the olive add much in the way of flavour? Is it important for it to be cold? Shaking or stirring, does it matter which?

Donald: What is your idea of martini heaven? I am always trying to educate my palate as well as my mind & this seems to be an area in which I have much to learn.

Now on the subject of single malt whiskies, wines & quality beers, I am not such a neophyte.

Graham.

Anybody got any ideas about which song should be played for the Kazoo Salute at the gangway of the Nostalgia Cruise? We need a olde but honourable tune of yesteryear. Ruby

How about 'The Entrance of the Queen of Sheeba'?

Graham.

Ross: Your story of the QE2 sounds just like an episode of 'Brideshead'!!!(oh no, not again!!!).:D

I was told that last winter on the Prinsendam's Antarctic voyage, the storm was so bad that they had to turn & head back to sheltered waters. All the tables & chairs on the Lido verandah were piled up in a heap in one corner. As the ship rocked violently, the old ladies who were having great difficulty staying on their feet, grabbed onto the heavy chairs in the lounges & dining room for support. Unfortunately for them, the chairs started to slide about the floor,the old ladies tottering along behind them, still holding on for all they were worth!

The story of the vertical legs reminded me of being upstairs on a BA jumbo jet some years ago. I was standing at the top of the stairs stretching my legs when a stewardess came by, tripped & took a headlong plunge down the stairs. Grabbing onto the rail with one hand, I lunged forwards & managed to catch her by the ankle with my other hand. For a moment, there we hung, me outstretched & her hanging upside down by the ankle, skirt over her head! I must say that she regained her composure very quickly!

The strange thing was that they had given me a bottle of champagne before this event & for no apparent reason. This has never happened to me on a plane before or since. I think that they must have had a premonition!

Graham.

Ruby: If your daughter could give lessons to all of us, we would be able to pipe you aboard with the kazoo!

Did you know that on HAL ships, the bellboy still comes through the ship playing the Xylophone to announce dinner? Just another nice traditional touch.

Regarding those 'masthead' scores of number of CC postings, which remain up to date on all the old postings. Have you noticed that name changes go all the way back too? Doug is now 'dougnewmanatsea' going way back. Also, 'Beckiedance' has become 'nolongeramember'. I don't know how that happens.

Ross; Thank you for the correct Dutch spelling of rijsttafel. I was not sure on that one (but ssshhh, don't tell Doug!).

Graham.

I am sorry you missed it as when I had it on the ROTTERDAM it was really good. In fact it was some of the best food I had on that cruise (and the food was quite good, overall). The selection was quite amazing and as I do not get to eat Indian food all that often it was a real treat.

GO ON. RUB IT IN, WHY DON'T YOU!!!:mad:

We had Indian food on the Prinsendam which was good but very mild. The thing that may have made it better on Ryndam, was the presence of Indian cooks. Donald, I hope that you like Indian food because I expect a full report after your Ryndam cruise!

Now, young Douglas, I do not often get the chance to educate you, so I am going to make the most of it!:)

Bami goreng is a vegetarian fried noodle dish which HAL serve at the midnight buffet, often at the end of the cruise (I wanted it on saturday night but could not quite face it at 11.30pm after late dinner!). They often serve it very hot with spices, way more than most North Americans would like. I have suspected that they are either taking end of cruise revenge & having a good laugh, or knowing that the passengers will not eat it, the crew will get to finish it!:D

The 'Dutch night' main course is 'Nasi Goreng'; literally fried rice. I suspect this is what you have for a starter (oink oink). Technically speaking, what they give you is a 'ricetafel', using the Dutch word, meaning a selection of different dishes. In this case it is a combination of:-

Nasi goreng- fried rice with egg, shrimps, chicken & beef.

Ayam goreng- fried chicken.

Satay Ayam- chicken kebab with a peanut sauce.

Rendang sapi- beef stew in a coconut sauce.

Pisang goreng- banana fritter.

Kerupuk udang- prawn crackers.

Now to complement this you have to ask for Sambal, a very hot chilli sauce. This makes a wonderful meal & we always look forward to it, although my wife makes excellent Indonesian food at home (Indian curries too:p ).

Graham.

This Scottish Canadian very much enjoys the classical trios or quintets which are a standard feature of HAL cruises. They are mainly Eastern European & vary in quality. The violinist on Ryndam was very good indeed, while the one on Prinsendam sometimes sounded like he was strangling a cat. The Westerdam had an excellent trio of young Canadian musicians. I enjoy sitting in the Explorers' Lounge listening to the classical music & usually the audience are well behaved. On this occasion, I sometimes kept my FIL company in the Ocean Bar where a very good Filipino quartet played a wide range of contemporary music. The show cast was also one of the best I have seen.

The show lounge on Prinsendam was also very small. They did however have dance lessons on Prinsendam, but I need more than the occasional lesson!

Afternoon tea is not one of the strong points on HAL ships, but it was improved on this occasion, by a passing pod of whales. They have also started an Indonesion afternoon tea, which is quite interesting with the waiters dressed in Batik & Indonesian tea & food being served.

I enjoyed your further observations of Saga Rose; thank you.

Graham.

Welcome back Donald. I trust that your cruise was an enjoyable one inspite of silly hats & bumpy seas.

We thought that the Ryndam was the most tastefully decorated of the eight HAL ships upon which we have sailed so far. Others are either a little drab or use too many primary colours along with a little too much of the baroque & rococo styles. The Vermeer show lounge was quite stunning in an art deco style. This was only spoiled by the uncomfortable seats & the poor sight lines on the balconies of the S-class ships.

The food on Ryndam was also good, as was the service. I did not know that HAL used to use only Filipino crew. Now they use Indonesians as waiters & cabin stewards, Filipinos as bar staff, deck stewards & cooks, & mainly Filipinos as sailors, with some Indonesians. On the Ryndam they had Indian cooks also & I was very upset to miss the Indian curry buffet out at the Lido pool on the Glacier Bay day when we were busy glacier watching. I checked & it was not advertised anywhere. We 'LOVE' Indian food & were suitably 'miffed'!

HAL provide a very traditional & stylish product which is fantastic value for money. Their 'Dutch night' has been a tradition for a while I think. The food is Dutch & Indonesian & the waiters dress in Dutch costume. Silly hats are provided for the passengers but we have always declined to wear them, having learned to say in Bahasa Indonesia that we do not like silly hats! It is OK though & not too tacky. Last year on the Amsterdam, we were introduced to the new 'Master Chef's dinner' concept, which is too tacky & is Carnivalesque. The show cast actually lead the waiters in their rather childlike rendition. We actually cringe with embarrassment for them until it is over. We had no hats though on Ryndam & I do not remember them on Amsterdam. My comment card also suggested that this sort of thing was best left to Carnival & was not appropriate for HAL. We are a pair of old 'stuffed shirts', but I am afraid that we just do not appreciate that sort of 'fun'. Once again, that is why it is important that the various lines offer a different product, catering to a different clientele. I stand firmly against Carnivalisation. Come on, there is plenty room up here on my soap-box!

On Prinsendam, we were spared the Master Chef's dinner & had hoped that it had gone the way of the Dodo. Great was our consternation on Ryndam when we found that it was not only alive & well, but people actually seemed to enjoy it. The dessert that you alluded to Donald, is a white chocolate chef's hat filled with chocolate mousse. It used to be so hard that attempts to cut it often resulted in one piece shooting across the dining room at high velocity, endangering anyone in it's path. The other piece would take an alternative trajectory, bouncing off one's chest, leaving chocolate mousse stains on one's formal evening wear. This dessert predated the chef's dinner & should have come with a written & verbal warning. They have however had time to perfect it & the white chocolate hat is now thin enough to cut easily. I still prefer to do it from behind a perspex safety screen though!

On Prinsendam & the world cruises, they dress the waiters in local costume on port days, have local flags on the table & have local dishes on the menu, for each port (that can be a lot in the Med.). I liked the local food & the flags were a nice touch, but I thought the local dress was a bit demeaning for the waiters (our's hated it, especially the hats). At least there was no Master Chef's dinner!

The service on Ryndam was excellent, spoiled only by the waiters being so busy since their numbers have been reduced, allowing them less time to chat. Our attempts at their language were appreciated as always. Donald, the waiters wore their 'crumbers' with pride, clipped like pens on their uniforms. We never had to sit through a 'crumby' meal once!

Indonesia was a colony of Holland's for centuries & there is still a connection between the countries, like Britain & India. HAL have a training school for their waiters in Jakarta, Java. I do not know how long this has been going on but I know that the Indonesian crew are HAL's greatest asset.

To answer your other 'queenie' Ruby, Veendam is one of HAL's four S-class ships, along with Statendam, Ryndam & Maasdam, & is still going strong. This year she has been doing the Baltic cruises rather than Alaska. These ships were launched in the early to mid 1990s & are very nice ships at 55,000 grt. Unlike most ships now (including Prinsendam), you can still stand up at the bow & lean on the rail as you watch the world go by. The wind is often deflected up & over the bow, so it is sheltered there while it is windy on the rest of the ship, making it the best place to be (a phenomenon often experienced on mountain tops). I miss this on other ships.

We experienced the storm on that night too, Donald, but were less exposed. The captain warned us that as we came out of one channel into the open Pacific, it would be rough for an hour at 1am before we re-entered the sheltered waters of another channel, making our way from Skagway to Ketchikan. It started to get a little rocky at dinner (our waiter was feeling a little 'mabuk laut' ) but it was not too bad & it did not stop the dancers from performing at the show. At bedtime I stuck my head out of the door to the promenade deck. It was very wet & windy so I tried the other side, thinking I would be able to go out for a little air on the sheltered side. No joy, it was even worse on that side, so I scuttled off to bed. During the night I awoke with the lurching of the ship & lay half asleep for some time until things improved enough to sleep. Next day the staff were seen picking their goods off the floor of the shop. Sounds like we got off lightly though. FIL is not a good sailor & did not like it. I gave him a sea-sickness pill & he slept for two days. I made a mental note to repeat the dose.

I got my reward for my unkind thoughts though, & picked up a bit of a cold on the last day, so I have been a little under the weather this week. I find that planes & ships are bad places for acquiring viral illnesses of various sorts. I suppose that poor air quality & the recycling of the air contributes.

Ruby: I was very interested to hear that your daughter is a physician with the Scottish Fiddle Orchestra (SFO). Does she play the fiddle herself?

Graham.

Welcome back from your travels to the British Isles. Your travelogue is wonderful & it is especially interesting with the accompanying photos. That is a very poignant picture of the Mauretania & the Forth Bridge. I wish I knew how to scan & show you my picture of that great ship. I am booked to go to these historical old ports on QE2 next year for her final visit, so I am especially interested in your experiences.

Yes, that Roman chap, Hadrian, did not like our hospitality so he built that big wall to discourage us from visiting. That was OK though because we did not like his company much either. At one point the Romans sent their ninth legion up to pay a call on us. We did not care for them much, they were never seen again. We sorted the Romans out right enough, but those VIKINGS:eek: were harder to deal with!

I too think that the chandeliers on Saga Rose are a travesty. What a shame. However, I would be happy to put up with them if the ship was allowed to stay.

That was a very interesting bit of information on the Tower of Refuge & the RNLI, Karen. Thank you. My FIL is a subscribing member of the RNLI & has been shown around the lifeboat station in Douglas, so I was able to impress him with my new found knowledge on the subject!

Is your hungry pig one of your crew Karen? I have seen many cruise ship passengers just like him.

Ruby: You mentioned the absence of Donald & myself but forgot to mention Michael floating down the Danube. Does anyone know when he returns? I hope that you are enjoying your family visit Ruby.

I saw the Volendam, Noordam, Statendam & Amsterdam last week, but not the Zaandam. At one point I thought that I saw a light in the north. I thought it was the Aurora Borialis but now I realise that it was Donald's shiny shoe reflecting the moonlight on formal night.

Graham.

According to Delia Smith, doyenne of British cooking, plaice is a flat, white, flounder like fish, found in Britain year round & similar to sole but less flavourful. It can be grilled like Dover sole (but consider a sauce to add flavour), deep-fried in a light crisp batter, or the fillets can be used in any sole recipe.

Queens (or queenies) are a type of small scallop & according to Delia, some of the best scallops in the world come from the waters around the Isle of Man.

If you are a fan of the British kitchen, Conte, then I suggest that you consider buying a copy of 'Delia Smith's Complete Cookery Course'. One simply needs no other.

Maybe deep fat frying is not a British thing where you come from Karen, (there is that farm in Africa link again!) but it certainly is in Scotland where the motto should be: if it moves, deep fry it! Glasgow is even famous for it's deep fried Mars bars !!! (Don't even ask. I have not tasted one, I have not even seen one & I do not want to!) Do they sell Mars bars in the USA? It is a chocolate covered toffee 'candy bar'. To deep fry one is a feat greater than baking an Alaska!

Correct Doug : no Dutch night on my seven day Ryndam cruise (& no silly hats either!) but they did have an abridged version with Dutch & Indonesian food. Sometimes they have the pickled herring but I am not sure on this occasion. It may have been on in the Lido.

The Scots used to be great fish eaters but ceased to be so when they could afford meat. When I grew up on that farm (not in Africa), we often had herring coated in oatmeal & fried (next best thing to deep fried!), sprinkled with vinegar & eaten with boiled potatoes; a very traditional dish. We also ate a lot of haddock, the preferred fish for deep frying in Scotland & the north of England. Farther south they prefer cod, which we regard as an inferior & less tastey fish!

When we lived in New Zealand, one of the favourite & most common fishes was the Orange Roughy (no L). It was quite nice, but not a favourite of mine. They also used shark a lot for fish & chips (those are French fries Conte, not crisps, you know, like in Texas!). In BC, Canada, we get deep fried Halibut & chips (unheard of in Scotland due to the cost).

On the Ryndam, the lobster was nice (usually rubbery on HAL but sometimes nice) & there was always salmon on the menu which also was good. Other fish included sole, halibut, prawns, crab & more.

On the subject of fish, that really is it, from me.

Graham.

Took our 12yr old black lab to the kennel today. Always very sad. At his age we are just never too sure if he will still be with us on our return.:(

Would rather have left aforementioned FIL at kennel & taken dog on cruise. Wife agreed. Unfortunately HAL do not take dogs but do take FILs.:(

Donald: Have a nice cruise on the Zaandam. We may pass each other somewhere along the way. Do you play the trumpet?

Kazover40: I note that you are heading off to South America with NCL in November. Sounds very interesting. I hope you will let us know how it goes. How about trying Saga (or are you not mature enough yet; like me!)?:D

Admiral Ma'am: Please keep everything ship shape & Bristol fashion on this great Nostalgia cruise.

The shepherd is coming. I must go & join the flock. The 'sheep ees leeving'!

Bye for now.

Graham.

Admiral Ma'am: Sark is in the Channel Islands between England & France. The Isle Of Man is off the west coast of England, between there & Ireland, just south of the south-west tip of Scotland.

No, my documentary was nothing to do with VIKINGS!:eek: That was a bit of a coincidence though! Did you sail on the Royal Thingy Star, Ruby? Maybe Fred Olsen Lines is another one for you to consider. I am told that you can sometimes get good last minute deals with them. They are on my list.

I gave up on the study of Latin after a very short introduction. I preferred to take woodwork, metalwork & technical drawing; more fun & more useful. English, they tell me, is a Germanic language shoe-horned into a Latin set of rules! Besides, those Romans were just as bad in their own way, as the VIKINGS!:eek:

Thank you Ruby, for your good wishes for the cruise. When travelling with extended family, I need all the help I can get!

Kazover40: Welcome again. With our motto of 'DULCIS CIVILIS', I do speak to the English as well as Americans!!!:D (Sometimes I sail a little close to the wind though!!!).:D

I am sure that the Isle Of Man is a lovely place in which to live. The aforementioned FIL has a cousin living on IOM. The said cousin is coming up to Edinburgh for a family reunion next year, to coincide with our visit on QE2 during her farewell visit to Scotland.

I am glad to hear that your hyperactive little chaps live a sober existance; maybe try a little less sugar!

Graham.

Admiral Ma'am: GDR, TDY,FIL?? What sort of cyber-babble is this? If you cannot speak English, then please, at least stick to your North American approximation, as I have a better chance of interpreting it.

I was watching a documentary about the history of Britain on the Knowledge Network (local PBS station) last night. They visited Skara Brae in Orkney: the best preserved Neolithic settlement in the world, 5,000 years old & uncovered by a storm in 1850. I wonder if Conte went to see it.

FIL joins US in the US/Alaska next week on the Ryndam visiting Juneau, Ketchican, Skagway & Glacier Bay. We are not too bothered about the ports as Alaska is not so different from BC, but we love the scenery, the wildlife & the ship experience.

Kazover40: Welcome to our quiet little backwater here. That certainly is a very active little fellow you have there. Is he under the influence of something, or just happy to have seen the beautiful Saga Rose in port?

Are you Manx, just living there, or visiting Douglas? It is many many years since I visited Douglas, on a ferry (yes, another one!) from Wales. Do many cruise ships visit the Isle Of Man? It used to be part of Scotland until the Vikings came along, doing their Viking thing. It is nice to meet someone from the British Isles on this cruise. Being a Saga one, I thought that there would be more of us here.

I see that you have sailed on the Black Watch, ex-Royal Viking (them again!) Lines, Royal Viking Star. Ruby is an old Royal Viking Line hand. How did you find Fred Olsen Lines? I saw the P&O Arcadia in Malta this year, when I was on the ex- Royal Viking Sun(Prinsendam). How was Arcadia?

Did you sail on the Royal Viking Star, Ruby?

VIKINGS!:eek:

Graham.

HAL Ryndam- 7 days to Alaska from Sunday 16th September (day after tomorrow).

HAL Oosterdam- 7 days to Mexican Riviera from 3rd November (after a week in San Diego, hopefully visiting the Queen Mary in Long Beach).

I hope that meets with your approval ma'am?

Graham.

Welcome back Conte.It sounds like you were particularly fortunate with the weather as they do not seem to be having a great summer in the UK this year. I look forward to your stories when you have recovered.

Graham.

I SAY; ANYONE FOR STEAK AND CHIPS?......(or should that be Texan potatoes?)

Graham.

Donald: Not a flight to the Sierra Madre, just a day trip. I hope that it will be a chance to see a little of Mexico beyond the tourist area, although we were surprised how much we enjoyed walking around the 'old town' of Mazatlan last year.

No, I will not allow my father in law to join the seedy ranks of the Thomases & Thomasinas, lurking on the promenade deck after dark! I know only too well the dangers that lurk out there for the unwary!!!:eek:

Ross: We managed to do the coordination thingy this morning. When we get really good at it, we will all be able to post together at the same time! I think they call that ESP (nothing to do with GDR though).

Ruby: Next week it will just be the 'old guard' left to discuss Saga & the ships of yore, just like old times! I also look forward to hearing of Conte's experiences on the Rose.

Graham.

Donald: We must be on the same circadian rhythm, resonate to the same frequency, boogy to the same beat!!!:D

Yesterday,we got our tickets for the Oosterdam for Mexico in November. It is the first time that we have had two sets of tickets at the same time! This Alaska trip on the Ryndam is an extra because my father in law is visiting & we are going with him on his very first cruise. November is for a work related meeting. I feel a bit like the maritime equivalent of a 'jet setter'!

I see you are going back to back on the Vision Of The Seas in November,Donald. If you leave on the 4th, you will be one day behind us at each port. We have booked a trip in Mazatlan with 'Mazatlan Frank' from these boards, going up into the Sierra Madre to visit a couple of the old mining towns. I thought that it would be nice to see beyond Mazatlan itself.

Ruby: GDR?- German Democratic Republic?????? These Celebrity passengers do get around!

I have a mental image of you floating around Texas in your car, suspended by your nitrogen filled tyres, a bit like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (or would that be hydrogen?)!!!!!:D

Graham.

There we go again!;)

Graham.

You very well may be right Ruby, regarding keeping up standards on large ships, although some very large hotels & resorts sometimes manage it (OK so they are the expensive ones!). It must certainly be harder to keep up standards on larger ships. I have never been on a ship larger than the Vista class, 80,000 tons, about the size of the old Queen Mary. The 90,000 ton Celebrity Millenium class ships have a good reputation though. Anyway, I look forward to putting this theory to the test next year on the QM2.

I also look forward to trying out the Celebrity ships sometime in the future & also trying out the creations of the Oceania pastry chefs!:)

Now that we have had a good honest airing of our views, can we take our seatbelts off yet Ruby?:D

Graham.

SNAP!!!:D

Graham.

There we go posting together again Donald! Yes I totally agree with you. I have also had good & bad service on HAL & it seems that this applies to all lines. Ruby's point about lower cruise costs resulting in less staff & training must also have a lot to do with it. It cannot only be cost to blame though when sometimes it is good & sometimes it is bad, on the same ships.

I certainly hope that someone at Celebrity is listening on the subject of the Cruise Director & the loud music. I still very much look forward to trying Celebrity. At the end of the day, one pays one's money & takes one's chances! You win some & you lose some!

I have never been all that keen on the cruise staff on HAL. They often have a rather unfortunate condescending & supercillious attitude, those on the Prinsendam being an exception. I think the example of the cruise director has a lot to do with it. What were they like on Saga Rose & Saga Ruby, Ruby?

Graham.

People are often quick to complain but often do not give credit where it is due. We feel that it is important to give constructive criticism as feedback, to help those in charge to improve & fine tune their service. We also feel that it is very important to complement those who have done a good job. As a consequence, we usually take the time to fill out our end of cruise questionnaires in great detail, sometimes running to a couple of extra pages! We try to balance the good & the bad.

I accept what you say about big corporations not listening to their customers Ruby & I agree. However I must give credit where it is due. After filling out so many of these HAL questionnaires, we have been repeatedly amazed at how many of our points have been addressed by the time of our next cruise. I do not flatter myself by thinking that HAL is paying so much attention to what we say, but presumably many others are saying the same thing & someone is listening. It is nice though to comment on a problem, to find the issue addressed on the next cruise!

Sorry if the direction of my ramblings has been difficult to follow. Let me try to clarify things. I think that we have been dealing with three separate issues here:

1. The isolated drop in standards below the norm, requiring complaint.

2. The change in the product offered, to appeal to a larger audience, but spoiling the experience for those who like something different from the majority; ie a loss of choice of service (the Carnivalisation).This is not necessarily associated with cost. This requires us to stand up & be counted so that they know we are here & want something different.

3. The overall drop in the standard of service provided due to the cheaper cost of cruises today; although the cost dynamic is different as the companies make more of their profits on the 'extras'. Some lament over this or move up to 'luxury' cruises. I am happy if I can find a balance because I can make it work for me & it allows me to go on more cruises. My balance is the 'premium' cruise. If everything short of the luxury cruises becomes like Carnival, then either my cruising days are over or I will start looking at freighters!

Graham.

Ruby: If I buy a Rolls Royce or a Cadillac, no matter how good a deal I get on the price, I am still entitled to the same quality that is expected as the norm for these vehicles. Whatever I pay for it, it is ultimately the company's decision how little they will allow the car to sell for, but this does not reduce their responsibility to provide the same quality.

In the same way, if I buy a cabin on a 'premium' cruise ship, no matter how good a deal I get, I am still entitled to the same quality & service that is the norm for that cruise line & advertised standard. If I do not think that any given part of the experience is up to the normal standard, then I should be able to complain about it to give the company & the people involved the necessary feedback. If I am not allowed to complain just because I got a good deal on the price, then that would just further encourage a decline in the service.

If the overall 'bottom line' price goes up, then that is a different matter & the ball is then in my court for me to decide whether I pay the price or go as often. If the company lets me on though, for whatever price, then they are obliged to provide the normal standard of service for that category of cruise. I expect a premium experience for a premium cruise, not a luxury one. If the overall normal level of service declines then complaining will do no good. If however the level of service falls below the norm, then complaining is worthwhile. That is what helps to keep the standards up.

Paying more money does not always guarantee better service either. I have heard lots of stories about poor service on expensive luxury ships. Generally speaking, you have to pay more also, to get on the British ships because the Brits are not such big spenders onboard, so they have to pay more upfront, a bit more like the old days.

If people do not complain about poor service, but let it go because they paid less, it will just encouage a further decline in service.

Ruby, we may just have to agree to disagree on this one.:)

Graham.