ak1004

19 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

I always knew that I wasn’t “average.”  Don’t assume that what you like is what everyone likes.  I am not interested in alcoholic drinks. I may or may not select excursions.  In new ports, I always often excursions . In Caribbean, I just relax.  Some ports, I may go shopping. Some, I may not get off the ship. Find a local cafe and enjoy  tasting the local cuisine. Group excursions aren’t my thing.  I am not happy playing follow the leader. They seldom go at my pace. 

Personally I agree with you 100%. We don’t drink alcohol and we prefer to book private tours. But based on the discussions with many guests, and number of Oceania buses in every port, most people are not like us. Most people do drink alcohol and do at least some ship tours. This is why I said “average”.

And even while we prefer private tours, on most sailings there are at least 2-3 ports where we take ship tours, for various reasons (safety, security, lack of reliable local tours companies etc). So while we are not happy with SM, we will find use for the ship excursions credit. Which means that for us, O is almost as all inclusive as SB.

15 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

When you compare cabins on the R ships to luxury line cabins, there is a big difference.  There are also space ratios, crew to passenger ratios, etc.  We cruise mass market and luxury lines and there are many differences.  Both have their place

 

Hank

I agree, R ships to me are less appealing. To me, ships like Vista and Riviera are much closer to luxury lines than to mass market.

That said, cabins are only one parameter. Crystal cabins are smaller than O newer ships, does it make Crystal less luxurious?

57 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

 

We did a 16- day Azamara cruise around New Zealand this past January and February and were pleasatlt surprsed that the experience compared well with our Oceania experience.  O won out in somecareas, but A actually exceeded O in other areas.  We have no hestitation to book A again for it great itineraries.  We have 2 upcoming cruises on the books on O and one one A, alll three selected for itinerary, since the sailing experience, while differ in details, are comparable.

 

Fortunately A recovered from it's disastrous we site transition.  It's still a bit clunky, but O is not known for its IT, either.

We enjoyed our A cruise very much. The Azamazing evening and white night were a lot of fun. Food was not as good as O in my opinion, but still very good. Officers much more visible and approachable. But the cabins and showers are a huge drawdown for me (the main reason we like O ships better on Oceania).

3 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

SB offers alcohol, and honestly quite good offerings, at any time. Not just at lunch/dinner wine/beer. Attractive to some, not to others. Oceania offers excursion credits that are attractive to some, not to others. In the States, I would think included gratuities included with Oceania would be attractive to all, but I would imagine the UK pricing might have them ‘baked in’. If they don’t that is a real bonus. 

I would say that "average" guest is interested in alcohol and at least few ship excursions. So "on average" the excursions credit offsets what you have to pay for an upgraded drinks package, which leaves only gratuities as the main difference in inclusions between O and SB. $18/day is not really material when you pay $500+/day for a cruise. 

23 minutes ago, Waltershipman said:

I like SB as well. Sailed on Azamara in 2019 and enjoyed it. Might give them another try in a larger cabin

Yes, we enjoyed them too, but larger cabins are priced similar to SB, sometimes more (and the suites are still slightly smaller than entry level cabins on SB). Only some very unique itinerary would convince me to try them again.

15 minutes ago, Vallesan said:

Thank you!

 

I took a look at the Explora website and it looks like they have offers for under 18’s in school holidays etc. My reading of that is that at other times under 18’s pay full price. That would certainly stop many people from taking children out of school for a trip!

 

As you say, the atmosphere wouldn’t really suit children. Guess if school holidays are avoided it must be worth a shot especially now that Silversea’s new pricing seems to be ruling them out for lots of people.

For us, our SS cruise in May will be probably the last one. The quality just doesn't justify the current prices. I was willing to book SS when I could get maybe for 10-15% more than O. Now it's 40-50% more, no way.

Some SB sailings are very reasonably priced. Explora is still more expensive than SB, and I didn't find any itineraries that are more unique than other lines. I assume things will get better when they roll out more ships, but for now O and SB will probably be our lines of choice, and possibly Windstar. There is just a limit of how much we are willing to pay for a cruise.

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

We would never use the term all-inclusive in terms of O since the line does not include gratuities or adult beverages (except during lunch/dinner).

 

Hank

SS says they are all inclusive - and yet charge for 2 out of 8 restaurants, premium internet, laundry etc.

No line is truly all inclusive. What matters is are the things that important to YOU included? Personally I couldn't care less about adult beverages since we don't drink. But I do care about specialty coffee and tea. I do care about specialty restaurants etc. 

So I don't care that O is called premium and SS is called luxury - to me they are in the same category.

There are few things worth mentioning.

First, the Essential fares are non refundable.  Not only the deposit - you have to pay the whole amount at the time of booking, and it's 100% non refundable.

The pricing of Essential is similar to previous pricing of P2P, just now it excludes excursions and fully non refundable. The pricing of P2P and D2D went up by 25-30%. 

SS prices are now around 40-50% higher compared to O when you look at Essential prices, and the inclusions are almost the same (the cost of the drink package on O is offset by the excursions credit more or less, so the only thing not included on O is gratuities). 

When you compare SS to SB which is in the same class, and have similar inclusions, SS is now more expensive by at least 10-15% for the Essential fare which is non refundable.

But at least they are relaxing the dress code.. 

6 minutes ago, tinaincc said:

I know this is copied from a friend but wow, the energy required to “track” what others are doing to that level of detail is astounding. It seems like that level of focus on something other than enjoying a vacation is worse than someone in a t-shirt.

Completely agree. I could never understand why some people are so obsessed with what other people wear..

18 minutes ago, Silver Spectre said:

Quite frankly this along with the new fare structure accelerates the race down to the mass market lines.

Well, if the dress code is the criteria, then I guess Regent, SB, Explora and Crystal are all mass market lines!

32 minutes ago, tinaincc said:

I read this as only on formal optional nights you will have to have a jacket however I too am curious what the practice is on Nova and soon to be Ray as those are the ships we will be on. 

On our two previous sailings (Dawn and Spirit) jackets were enforced only in the dining venues. You could see may men on the theater without jackets on informal and even formal nights. Hopefully it will stay this way.

So this is what I read:

For people who sailed on the Nova, is this enforced? I know that even with the current dress code, people would still have dinner in the Grill without a jacket, but if I want to go to one of the lounges or see an evening show, will they turn me down?

11 hours ago, DavyWavey70 said:

I’m a bit dumbfounded Jazz tbh. I Know we all need to expect a certain “alignment” after an acquisition but I’m truly horrified to be watching the daily c*ckups, gaffs, degradation and diminishment of a previously incredible line. In the last couple of weeks we’ve seen the ridiculous photo opportunity debacle, the last moment cancellations of cruises due to circumstances beyond the lines control but of which they were extremely aware of months ago, an appointment of an “investor relations person” whose sole purpose seems to be to bring the line into line, begging letters from the HD (I Didn’t take offence from that letter until I reached the line about the suggested daily amounts), the “not” proof read flyer that stated that essential fares didn’t include butlers, Wi-Fi, gratuities etc), not to mention the recent “you can’t eat your caviar here” incident in the lounge, diminishing standards of food quality and all of this with complete radio silence from the previously proactive and wonderful Barbara Muckerman. I Understand that she maybe can’t engage as she used to before her promotion and have valued her responses hugely in the past but SS seems to be imploding. please Barbara M, put our minds at rest and tell us what has happened to our beloved line. 

I think there is a huge disconnect between corporate actions and on board experience, and this is true for most lines. Just look at Oceania, Regent etc.

We did 2 SS cruises so far, both post Covid. I cannot compare to what it was before Covid and before the acquisition, but overall we had a great time. It was not perfect, we did notice some service issues, but we would gladly sail on SS again given the right itinerary and pricing. Food was not as good as O in my opinion, but still very good overall.

So I guess it's all relative - people who can compare with how it was few years ago, probably notice some cutbacks, but this is probably true for all lines.

P.S. What was the “you can’t eat your caviar here” incident in the lounge?

4 minutes ago, goldengatecruisers said:

ak1004 - moving forward I don't think that is even possible.  Door to door is with flights, port to port is without flights, essential is well, the bare essentials.  

 

Door to door with an air credit is, as I understand it, a thing of the past.  We now only have these new three categories.  It was described very well by Jazzbeau in post #81

I think you are right - just tried to do a booking online and there is no option to take air credit, only upgrade to business class.

1 minute ago, goldengatecruisers said:

Gourmet Gal, I took a screen shot from the email Silversea sent out to guests earlier today.  If you received such an email you can see what I captured in the screen shot.   I don't see it on the website but to be honest, I have not delved deep enough most likely.   From the email its states Port to Port is now combinable with Venetian Society benefits, whereas previously I don't believe the port to port fares qualified for the discounts.

If this is the case, then there is no point to take D2D with air credit, even if this is possible. From what I see, the price difference between D2D and P2P is always more than the cost of economy air, and since P2P now has the same cancellation policy, and also qualifies to Venetian society, what's the point to take D2D if you want to book your own flights?

16 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

The best companies manage to benefit their bottom line while also delighting customers.  This style of management does not appear to be in the SS and RCCL playbooks. 

Agree. But there are currently many complaints across most lines. Carnival is destroying SB, and NCL is destroying Regent and Oceania, etc.

At the end of the day, we look at value for money and try to separate the management style/decisions from on board experience, otherwise we would be staying at home and stop cruising. Based on our 2 cruises with SS, they still offer excellent on board experience, but with the new pricing, it just doesn't make sense to book them. To me, they are not 50-60% better than O, so I'm not willing to pay 50-60% more.

13 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

So you actually think that changes to the fare structure, or anything else that Silversea does (e.g. Nova photo opp), are for the benefit of passengers?

It depends.

The Nova photo opp was a disaster, there is no argument here.

Introduction of a new fare that doesn't include excursions is a positive because many people prefer to book their own excursions. However, since those fares are 100% non refundable, they have to be discounted (like previous P2P pre paid) - but in reality, not only they are not discounted, they are actually similar to previous P2P pricing, but now without excursions and 100% non refundable.

The devil is in details. The intention was good (maybe), the implementation terrible. But of course everything they do, the main goal is to benefit their bottom line. No different than any other business.

Looks like our upcoming SS cruise in May will be our last one.

20 minutes ago, fudge said:

I have just had a mail from Silversea advertising voyage only fares. No flights, no transfers or excursions, for those who wish to make their own arrangements. 

Yes, but those fares are 100% non refundable, and they used this change for massive price increase. D2D and P2P increased by 20-30%, and the new Essential fares are now similar to previous P2P fares, but without excursions and non refundable. 

4 hours ago, Mayflower1 said:

 

The only unfortunate Issue now, with Cruises starting from Maghera is that the Transfer to the Ship will be quite long.,

The cruise starts from Fusina.

30 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I think all Silversea prices went up overnight.  I had checked my two booked cruises yesterday to see what the old P2P fares would be [both althready higher than when I booked those cruises, so that downgrading from my D2D-no air rates was no bargain] – and today all three levels of booking are higher.  I think Silversea is using this as a reset to take account of the much higher airfares and excursion costs.

Probably, but Essential fare excludes air and excursions, and looks like it's still priced higher than previous P2P.

Anyway, the competition will take care of the pricing. We book based on itinerary and pricing. If SS inclusions are similar to SB with Essential fare, but prices are significantly higher, personally I won't book SS anymore unless there is another promotion.

This is a very good change, with more flexibility. However, it seems like Essential prices are now similar to what used to be P2P, but exclude excursions. So in terms of inclusions, Essential is similar to SB, but with prices at least 10-15% higher.

For example, European cruises now start at $550-600 per night, with no excursions. SB has many sailings around $500 or less. 

1 hour ago, etual324 said:

SS simply hotel when we booked was Monaco Grand Canal  checked my account the other day new hotel San Clemente

Hotel is on a private so now we take a shuttle from an island to visit a island ( VENICE)

 

NEVER NOTIFIED we are now in penalty phase if we CX hotel 

 

The silver part on Silver Sea cruises name is TARNISHED

We are on the same cruise. We asked for quote and SS quoted us almost the same price per person as the price for the room, so basically almost double.

With all potential changes, and significantly higher prices, why people still book hotels via cruise lines? I understand that you also get transfers, but transfers in places like Venice are peanuts compared to what you overpay compared to booking independently. 

22 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

I can't express an opinion  about cruise lines I haven't sailed on such as Seabourn, Crystal, Regent Seven Seas and Explora Journeys, but based on what I read and hear it's possible any of them may have better food. Obviously there won't be any uniformity of agreement on the issue as it's not a matter of fact but rather a matter of personal tastes and opinion.

 

But none of that is the point of my post. Let's say that hypothetically there were reasonably objective measures of which cruise line has the best food, and that cruise line wasn't Oceania. Oceania would still be able to use the advertising slogan "The Finest Cuisine at Sea" because it's a registered trademark despite it having extremely questionable validity. Should any intelligent consumer take the word of a trademarked advertising slogan as the gospel truth? It's advertising after all, not an immutable law of physics.

 

You know that O's food isn't objectively the best at sea...look at what you said in subsequent posts: (bold lettering is my editing addition)

 

 

Like you, I cannot express an opinion about cruise lines I haven't sailed on such SB, Regent or EJ. All I'm saying is that my opinion is that O has the best food out of 12 lines we sailed on.. and this includes SS, Crystal and Azamara plus few mass market lines. I don't care much about their advertising slogan, in the same way I don't care much about their other advertising BS (like 2 for 1 fares, FREE excursions, FREE wines etc.) SS markets itself as all inclusive line, but charges extra for 2 out of 8 restaurants, premium internet, laundry etc. I base my opinion on my experience, not advertising slogans or other people's opinions.

And yes, O's food isn't objectively the best at sea, it's the best based on my opinion, which I don't pretend to be objective. Maybe after our first cruise on SB in September this title will go to SB, and then to EJ (assuming their prices will come down to earth - and if not, there are more than enough excellent choices).

6 minutes ago, Waltershipman said:

Did you like Azamara food. We sailed on Azamara however that was more than 7 years ago

We did. Still much better than big ships, but not as good as O. But it was in 2019, so things might have changed.

I might be not the best person to ask because I like very specific food, and O fits my taste the best. But my wife agrees with me (well, kind of..)

6 minutes ago, Waltershipman said:

SB had some excellent meals particularlyin the now replaced Thomas Keller venue. Polo Grill and Red Ginger on O rank in the higher end of cruise food. My DW likes Specialty restaurants on Celebrity Solstice.

Without doubt EJ is superior dining to all and comparable to high end land fine dining

Overall rank of O food is a B with Specialty dining B plus or A minus  but just my opinion 

 

Service excellent particularly in Specialty restaurants 

Well, we haven't sailed on SB or EJ yet, so I cannot comment.

O was our first cruise line after sailing on mass market (Celebrity, Princess, HAL etc). I think food in the MDR is in a different league compared to MDR on the mass market lines (not suites). I agree that Specialty restaurants on Celebrity are pretty good, but they also cost extra.

Then we sailed on Azamara, Old Crystal and SS. I still think that O is marginally better than Crystal and SS, but again, that's my opinion. I know many people who sailed with Crystal and SS and still prefer O food, so I don't think I'm completely off.

Personally Red Ginger was my least favorite specialty restaurant, but it's because I like European food more than Asian. So it really comes to personal preferences. For example, I consider O rack of lamb one of the best I had in any restaurant, including some of the top rated restaurants on land.