bogey

I just got off the phone with my TA who tells me that nothing has been heard from Silversea, but that Regent just announced major alterations to their Black Sea cruise departing from Athens on 8 August. I tried to take good notes, but I may not have the details exactly right. Here is the gist of the Regent announcement.

1. All Russian/Ukranian ports have been deleted. So, the planned stops in Sochi, Yalta, Sevastapol and Odessa are gone.

2. To make up for those changes a stop in Batumi, Georgia has been added as have overnights in Istanbul and Constanta -- which had previously been just single day visits.

I have no idea how this may relate to Silversea's plans, but it is good news that at least one line is announcing their plans well in advance. Hopefully Silversea will follow suit.

Larry, if Silversea takes similar action, your questions about Russian visas will be moot. If not, I can tell you that when we visited St. Petersburg last summer, individual visas were not required if you were on a tour with a licensed tour operator --- and you remained in the company of that operator. Some folks took advantage of this provision using the ship's shore excursions. Others did so by hiring private guide companies. I doubt that anybody can predict how these rules may change as tensions with Russia ebb and flow.

Yes, you are choosing the wrong clause for some reason I cannot understand. Very odd.:confused: :)

Well, the reason I chose that clause is simple. It has to do with the evidentiary concept of relevance. It is that clause which was highlighted by the poster who quoted from the cruise contract. It is that clause which would be invoked by a cruise line (all cruise line contracts have similar provisions) if they decided it was necessary to alter an itinerary because of the Russian invasion of Crimea.

That is the relevant clause which would be considered by an American court handling a dispute over a cruise itinerary altered due to the type of unrest we are discussing. Since the American court system is based largely on the UK system, I would imagine that the courts in the UK have similar rules of relevance and germaneness.

Not going to go over "old ground" again, if you made your booking in some overseas territories including the UK and Oz "unfair" terms and conditions are unenforceable including this type of clause in this type of situation. In essence consumers can ignore any unfair clause and unfair in the UK is widely interpreted to be very genorously consumer biaiseds.

I guess I'm missing something. (Frequently the case.) I'm not sure I understand why a clause which says that a cruise ship is not required to go into a war zone is "unfair?" If I were on that ship, I'd applaud such a policy.

I talked with my Travel Agent today. She reports that no cruise lines have announced any changes for Black Sea itineraries.

I'm not an expert on this, so perhaps someone can chime in. I thought that only the smaller Wind and Cloud could dock at the English Embankment, and that the larger ships had to berth in a more commercial area half an hour away. Correct? Not?

Not. We were there last summer on the Cloud and the Whisper was right across the channel from us. You will definitely maximize your time (and finances) with a private tour. We used Alla and were very pleased.

We are booked on a Black Sea cruise on the Spirit in August. So we're thinking along lines similar to you. Three or four years ago, we did a cruise on the Wind which departed from Islanbul and made some stops in the Agean on its way to Nice. Here is what little I can remember about the stops.

Kusadasi - If you have not been, I highly recommend Ephesus. Our cruise offered an excusrion called something like "Ephesus and the Terrace Houses with an Archeologist." It was simply amazing. The guide was someone who had been "digging" at Ephesus for decades and who knew all there was to know. He also managed to help us avoid most of the crowds, because of his access to areas that were not open to the public. If that tour is still offered, take it.

Rhodes -- a nice little island with some lovely beaches. The ship docks within walking distance of the walled city which is great for a nice stroll.

Santorini --- you've been there I think.

Mykonos -- a resort island, probably pretty quiet in April. Pretty houses. Lots of Greek blue color. Windmills. Easy to walk around the port village. Did not take an excursion there.

I believe those are all the Agean ports we hit before heading east. If I remember more I'll let you know.

Please stay active on these boards with any information you get from Silversea about changes to the itinerary.

Bogey

 

Just remembered why "financial stability" was a big issue on Regent last year (around March). Silversea stated that a big announcement would be forthcoming. I was onboard a Regent ship at the time. There was a lot of discussion on the ship (amongst the staff as well as the guests) as to what the announcement would be. The discussions had us so concerned, we cancelled our cruise on Silversea (note: we rebooked about three months later). The "big announcement" had something to do with travel agents :rolleyes:

I wonder if these financial stability concerns are somehow a Regent thing. Our first Regent cruise was on Voyager and we became acquainted with three couples who were veterans of multiple Regent cruises. At one point, there were a couple of lapses in service. About the same time, word started to get out that Regent and Oceania were about to consummate a merger.

One evening at dinner these acquaintances spent a good deal of time discussing whether the impending merger and lapses in service were signs that Regent was "going under" and needed to be saved by Oceania. I think they almost convinced themselves (and me, the Regent rookie) that Regent's best days were over. I didn't cancel my future booking, but I admit they had me a bit worried.

Thankfully, their concerns were not well-founded and Regent continues to be a leader in the luxury market. I continue to believe that your friends' concerns about Silversea probably fall into a similar category.

I had an identical problem with medical records. Convincing the hospital computer to get the right records to the right patient took months.

Potentially, you'll be dealing with things like passport numbers -- which you want to keep private and accurate.

It may be easy to fix, but the longer you wait, the more difficult it may become. If you are using a travel agent, I'd ask them to assist.

Regent is launching the new Explorer in 2016.

Great news! Sounds like Regent also continues to do well. Can't wait for 2016 to get here!

bogey - to set the record straight, Seabourn has sold its three (quite old)small ships, and has just commissioned a new one which will take about 600 passengers, which is pretty much the number the 3 old ships held.

Thanks for setting the record straight. I'd read that they sold their original three ships, but got a mailing earlier this week selling cruises on the Legend and the Spirit into the fall of this year. So I wasn't sure if the sale of those had gone through.

I loved those small ships and am hoping to get on one of the Odyssey class in the near future. I hear great things about them.

I'm glad to learn that they are expanding even more and hope to hear more about the "coming attraction" that you mention.

That isn't the question I am being asked! Yes - I recommend Silversea but when we have to sit in a smoking section because most of the heaters are not working in Hot Rocks (Shadow, September, 2013) and ships are being purchased from used car (oops ship) lots, it does make people question Silversea's financial stability.

In this thread about financial stability, you've mentioned the sanitation inspection, turnover in management positions, inconsistent policies, coerced charitable donations, broken heaters, and the purchase of used ships. I don't think the issues you have raised are evidence of financial instability --- the most pressing question you are faced with.

I'd like to try and respond to the "used ship lot" concern as it relates to financial stability. Lots of cruise lines buy "used ships." Some examples which I'm aware of:

Oceania was founded with three ships purchased from a line that went out of business. The Seven Seas Navigator was designed to be some sort of Russian auxiliary ship, but the hull was purchased by Regent and converted to a passenger ship. Windstar has recently negotiated the purchase of one or more ships from the Seabourn fleet.

I have no reason to think that any of those companies are in financial trouble because they have purchased ships from the "used ship lot."

I believe that Silversea is the one so-called "luxury line" which, in these difficult times for the travel industry, is undertaking a net expansion of their fleet. Seabourn has added the three Odyssey class ships. I believe that I've read that Seabourn is offsetting that expansion by selling (or at least trying to sell) their original ships. Crystal is down to just two ships. Regent hasn't added a new ship since I started sailing that line about 6 years ago. I'm not sure how old their newest ship is.

In contrast, Silversea added to the fleet with the Spirit in 2009, the same year that Seabourn introduced the Odyssey. In the past two years, Silversea has, after major refurbishments, introduced two more ships to its "expedition fleet." Silversea is, I believe, the only luxury line expanding the size of its fleet. I've always considered expansion a sign of success in business.

I have looked at all 50 posts in this thread and, while I've seen some valid issues raised, none of those issues make me think that Silversea is financially unstable. I repeat that I don't have a crystal ball. There may be financial problems lurking. But I believe that an objective examination of all the factors that have been discussed in this thread does not support a conclusion that the line is in financial difficulty. And, of course, it is entirely possible that my view is less than objective. :-)

We have done two b2b trips on SS and obtained discounts each time.

I found that a good travel agent can be a big help -- especially if travel pans are complex. (No, I'm not a TA.)

Bogey

We booked an excellent two day tour through Alla Tours. Their ticket served as a visa. Several other companies offer similar tours and get excellent reviews. You might take a look at the St. Petersburg section of the ports portion of this site. Tripadvisor.com also has some excellent reviews of the various companies offering St. Petersburg shore excursions.

Only downside to not having a separate Russian visa in your passport is the requirement that you not leave the tour. So, if you're interested in doing anything on your own, it might be worth the expense and time to get the individual visa.

Some of the ship's literature may push the fact that you don't need a visa if you are on one of their tours. But that is also true if you are with one of the independent companies who advertise this service. We were among the very first off the ship (Silver Cloud) on our first morning in port, and were treated no differently than any other guests.

Some very interesting and thoughtful comments in this thread. Some random thoughts:

If the fact that the Shadow failed a sanitation inspection is evidence that the cruise line is in trouble, then we should worry about Regent. After all, the Navigator almost simultaneously failed an inspection with a lower score, and the Navigator's re-inspection score was lower than the Shadow's. So, while the Shadow inspection was very disappointing, I'm not sure that a bad inspection supports a conclusion of bigger problems.

If a banker is willing loan millions of dollars to finance fleet refurbishment efforts, that banker (who certainly will take a hard look at the books) isn't worried about the financial stability of the line.

If the line were in financial trouble, I doubt that they'd have been able to buy a second expedition ship, which would have involved, I'm sure, another big loan.

So, while I have no crystal ball into the financial condition of the company, it seems to me that the weight of the evidence would support a conclusion that there is no reason for alarm.

Of course, my opinions are about as reliable as a weather forecast. Therefore the company will probably declare bankruptcy tomorrow.

Zoe,

I think you will thoroughly enjoy your time on the Spirit. I've never been on a whole-ship charter, so everything I'm about to say may be altered by the fact that you will be. I simply don't know if the ship changes any of its standard practices for a charter.

Le Champagne and Seishin have a surcharge for dining.

All dining venues except the main dining room require advance reservations. How fast they fill up seems to depend on the collective personality of the guests on board. On our last cruise, we were able to make reservations in La Terazza at the last minute, while on another cruise, they were completely booked by the end of the second day on board.

The menu will include vegetarian options, so you will not need to worry about having something to order from the menu. If you have any special requests or requirements, you should discuss that with the Dining Room manager, who we have always found to be very helpful.

You can bring a bottle of bourbon on board. Remember, however, that drinks are complimentary on the ship. Your Butler will provide bottles of spirits that you request. All but the most expensive premium brands are included. So, unless the bottle you plan to bring is quite unique, you might save yourself the trouble of transporting booze to the ship.

All the ports you mentioned will have excellent beach options which will include kayaking, snorkeling, intro to scuba and things like that. I recommend the Baths at Virgin Gorda. It is a nice, fairly secluded beach where you can also enjoy a rather challenging hike through some beautiful rock formations.

If you are really a beach person, you'll probably want to do a beach excursion in Antigua. On our last stop there, we did not go to the beach and tried a Segway experience instead. If you have never tried the Segway, I recommend it.

St. Barts is where, in addition to some nice beaches, you can observe the playground of the rich and famous. I strongly recommend a stroll along the marina to take in the amazing mega-yachts that are there. There is also a very nice wine shop just past the marina on the main street. We found some highly rated Bordeaux vintages that did not seem over priced.

I've taken too much of your time. Bottom line: Relax and have a great time!

Our Black Sea cruise on the Spirit sails from Istanbul on 20 August. This is an itinerary we have been looking forward to for quite a while. So we are watching developments carefully. I hope this thread stays active with updates and expert insights.

It is horrible, if not particularly surprising, to see how tyranny seems to have reappeared in that part of the world. Hopefully there will be a favorable solution to this seemingly impossible situation. I can always alter my vacation plans. The tragedy facing Ukrainians may not be alterable (if that is a word.)

Bogey

I hope we don't have to rename the site "My Silvercare."

Dieter --

Don't worry --- unless they promise that "If you are happy with 'My Voyage,' you can keep it." :-)

Hello,

I'm looking for information/recommendations about private tour operators in Sochi who can provide a single day shore excursion and take care of visa issues. Thanks,

Bogey