Infi

Hi Kazu, not a new Rotterdam booking, but if you could please add this one for us, that would be great. We switched over after HAL took our Amsterdam holiday cruise from us a few weeks ago. Not sure it will sail, but booked just in case. 

Volendam - 21-Dec-20 - 14 day Holiday & New Year’s Cruise

Infi

As always, thank you for maintaining this for all of us. Gives us something to look forward to during these times. 

1 hour ago, RuthC said:

Thanks for the alert. Will do. 

I was booked on the Rotterdam for the unusual New England/ Canada cruise that went to Newfoundland, and over to Greenland before turning around. I saw on a link that the ordinary New England/Canada cruise was considered the alternative. It is not. 
Since the letter I received noted that my booking was 'canceled' and not 'moved' or 'transferred' (or similar), it never crossed my mind to check. 

Agreed - there is no comparison between those two cruises. I saw that Rotterdam itinerary to Greenland and it looked like a lovely one, almost a mini version of VOV. 

Note to HAL - your version of a suitable alternative itinerary may not be the same as a guest's. 

21 minutes ago, richwmn said:

I was successfully moved from Amsterdam to Volendam. I called my TA Wednesday evening when the news came out, and let them know what I wanted. Yesterday morning I talked to them and got confirmation that I was moved over and even got the cabin I wanted.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience with successfully moving to the Volendam, I'm glad there is still space on that sailing. I need to call back my TA to move us over, but I was truly shocked HAL had moved us to the NA without our knowledge or consent. When I received the new invoice, HAL had simply ported over everything, including our cabin number, which does not even exist on the NA. The only thing that DIDN'T get ported over was our extra OBC we had earned for booking during a promo onboard. Sigh.

Interestingly, the Amsterdam cruise still appears in both the personalizer and the HAL app, and even allows one to make bookings for shore excursions. The same is also true in the HAL app for our canceled July 25th Rotterdam cruise, which still has a countdown and options to book onboard dining and shore excursions. One would think that with the lead time HAL likely had prior to this decision, they could have done a better sweep of the app, bookings, the website, etc. 

If/when things get back to normal, I wonder if HAL envisions using the Zaandam and Volendam as the Amsterdam and Prinsendam replacements (respectively). Zaandam to do the WC and any exotic sailings in the Fall (Grand Africa, Grand Asia, Tales of the South Pacific), and Volendam to do the Grand South America and Grand Med, possibly with exotic itineraries in between. 

The question of future deployments and itineraries is the biggest one for me in all of these shifts. HAL is known for its unique and exotic itineraries and regularly receives awards for them. Itineraries are what drew us to HAL in the first place and one of the things that keeps us coming back time and time again. With only two smaller ships to cover these routes (and, arguably, they are the best choices to provide exotic itineraries - it's harder to fill a Vista or larger for these types of sailings), will HAL's biggest selling point - its varied itineraries - disappear?

A PSA for anyone who had bookings on the Amsterdam, Maasdam, Rotterdam, or Veendam. We were booked on the Amsterdam's holiday cruise for this year, and just called our TA this morning. I wanted to move our booking over to the Volendam holiday cruise, and instead was informed that HAL had switched us to the holiday sailing on the Nieuw Amsterdam. We never received an email notification about this from HAL beyond the announcement that the ships had been sold, nor does it appear in our personalizer online. Needless to say, this was quite the unwelcome surprise, so wanted to tell others to check their bookings. Hope this helps those who are in the same boat - HAL may have chosen your new cruise for you without your knowledge!

On another note, does anyone know how or if the crew was informed about the sale? Spoke with a few current and former crew yesterday, and most weren't aware the sale had been made. If they weren't given a slight heads up and had to find out via a blog post, that's incredibly poor on HAL's part. This is their livelihood and an employer should inform them of any major decisions made.

With HAL decreasing their fleet size by 4 ships (essentially 20%!) overnight, not only does this create a lot of holes for future deployments and itineraries, it also eliminates many positions onboard. I'm sure the pandemic will make many reconsider their decision to work on ships, but I think there are many who are waiting for the opportunity to return to work. With so many positions gone (and across all lines, not just HAL), where will they go?

Like so many others here, we are incredibly saddened by the sale of the Amsterdam, Maasdam, Rotterdam, and Veendam. Received the email message yesterday, as we were booked on the Amsterdam's holiday cruise this year. Feeling grateful today that our last HAL cruise was the Amsterdam's final holiday cruise in December, the last full cruise she actually completed. Disembarkation morning sadness was alleviated slightly knowing we'd be back this December for her next holiday cruise, and on the Rotterdam this summer. As we all know, neither of those came to pass. We treasure the memories made aboard these ships - there will never be ships quite like them again.  

We've sailed only the Prinsendam, S-class, and R-Class since 2012, consciously choosing to vote with our feet about what ships and experience we enjoyed the most. This is the end of an era for cruising on HAL, and I'm very curious (and a little nervous) to see how they will proceed going forward. 

Thanks for sharing, OP. Surprised to see some of the HAL ships with lower PSRs while the big RCI ships like Oasis and Allure hold their own quite well. No surprise to see the R-class, Prinsendam etc. with quite favorable ratios - they are some of our favorites because they're so intimate. 

Haven't looked into PSRs for many years, but was wondering: wasn't there a different PSR ratio calculated at one point that took into account more nuance of ship design? I remember the argument being made that tonnage/passengers formula didn't encapsulate "wasted" space onboard: for example, airy, multi-deck atriums that held space that passengers couldn't actually "use". Does anyone else remember this?

Appreciate those who have shared their experiences with EXC. It seems that the EXC concept is heavily dependent on the enrichment staff onboard, both in terms of quality (for lectures, activities, etc.) and quantity (who's going to drive all those zodiacs?)

On our Antarctica cruise in December 2017, we spoke with Peter Carey, who was the head of the onboard "Expedition Team" of 3 lecturers who spoke about the geology, biology, and the culture of the region. He had been tapped to head up the EXC concept for the Maasdam, and was very excited to spearhead the new program. When complimented on his Antarctica lectures, he was gracious and always told those to mention it in their surveys, so HAL would see how important destination-based lectures are to HAL passengers. Based on his lectures and the program he ran for us in Antarctica, I know that any ship with him aboard would have been quite lucky and had the EXC concept live up to brochure promises. However, there are only so many Peter Careys (and other fine lecturers/naturalists/etc.) to go around, and I can't help wondering if HAL didn't fully think the personnel piece through, given the uneven execution of this concept. Staffing the Maasdam year-round and across a wide variety of specialized destinations can't be easy and requires quite a bit of forethought and planning. It's too bad, this concept could have been a real winner.

We cruise every summer due to work schedules, so it feels like a very odd year. Right now, we're sad about the loss of our summer cruise, and wondering if we will sail again at Christmas as scheduled. 

Looks like the same link, posted 3 times...and across multiple threads. 🤨

17 hours ago, kazu said:

 

I agree with your entire post but on this in particular.  The EXEC in depth and the Maasdam is NOTHING like the Prinsendam.  An imitation at best and a poor one at that.  It’s itineraries no where near match what the Prinsendam did.  Not saying Maasdam doesn’t have nice itineraries but they are limited.

HAL has sunk money into the Maasdam with zodiacs etc so I agree they may hang onto her.  On the other hand, everything is for sale if the price is right.  After all, Prinsendam had the highest profit per person of all of the ships and they sold her.

Exactly. The Maasdam EXC is a completely different concept, built on a more affordable expedition-type travel concept and less of a cruise experience (i.e. no shows/traditional entertainment). It's similar to the Prinsendam in that they don't really repeat itineraries and the destinations are relatively exotic, but it's not the same. I know there has been speculation here that HAL would build a new Prinsendam or at least replace her with a similar size vessel someday, and can't help but feel that the pandemic and subsequent gloomy outlook of the cruise industry has put the kibosh on any dreams of that happening. Such a shame.

If I had to make my bets, I would say Maasdam is safe for now, but you're absolutely right - everything is for sale if the price is right.

As others have noted, if HAL ships are chosen as part of the 6, I imagine the S class would be the first to go. The R class serves its purpose for now: destination-based cruising on smaller ships, with the potential to do Grand Voyages as needed. 

Which of the S class will go? For better or for worse, HAL seems committed to the experiment of the EXC voyages on Maasdam, and has dumped a lot of money into her recently, i.e. the new Zodiacs and other modifications. HAL seems to recognize there's demand for a Prinsendam-esque replacement to do the exotic voyages. While EXC in depth isn't quite the same as the Prinsendam, I can't seem them in a huge rush to get rid of the Maasdam for that reason. As we all know, the Veendam hasn't been kept in great shape for awhile now and her awkward design represents a series of failed HAL experiments (aft poolette, extra cabins). HAL would probably love to offload her if given the chance. The question is, who has the final say in what ships from a brand leave? Carnival Corp or HAL?

Lastly, who's buying or who even needs a ship during this market? It's not likely the luxury cruiselines would want an S class in need of some TLC, not to mention her larger size. Carnival Corp loves to play the shell game of sending their older tonnage off to Australia and Europe, slapping on some new paint and giving them a new lease on life. I doubt P&O Australia is in the market, especially now since they've essentially gotten rid of both the Pacific Aria and Eden (Ryndam and Statendam) after just a few years of service. So, where will all of these ships go? My worst fear in all of this is that this unexpected early retirement may mean that some of our beloved smaller ships go off to the breakers, never to be seen again. 

On 6/4/2020 at 10:57 PM, KirkNC said:

It also could be they don’t think the 21 WC is a go and they can just reuse the itinerary.

Reusing the itinerary is an easy fix, and in theory, perhaps they can. But, even reusing the same route still requires negotiations with ports for dates, times, etc. What worked in 2021 may not work for a port in 2022. 

Agree with the comments above where others expressed concerns about the WC cliques. We have sailed on the Amsterdam on the holiday cruise immediately preceding the WC three times now, and have seen the behavior of some who were continuing on and heard some stories about what happens onboard the WC. It seems like it is quite difficult for first time WCers to fit in and become a member of "the club".

Unfortunately, this is one of the two main concerns that has kept us from taking the WC plunge for several years now.

16 minutes ago, Lido - Lanai said:

Yes, we were given the opportunity to cast a vote on the 2022 World survey. From my experience with the world cruise surveys, they never tell you what the actual vote count was. Last time I spoke to HAL they were hoping to have the itinerary finalized and announced by mid-June. Of course with so many unknowns regarding the 2021 itinerary, it could be a bit longer before we hear about the 2022. Personally, I think they'll put something out there (even if it needs changing between now and 2022) just to enable them to start accepting bookings.

Thank you. I had been wondering about the outcome of the vote - certain versions of the itinerary were much more appealing than others.

Did the 2020 WC passengers ever vote on the 2022 itinerary? I know the four options were made available to them, but never heard the outcome of the vote. 

At any rate, I doubt we'll see the 2022 WC itinerary anytime soon. HAL has bigger fish to fry right now; worrying about deployments and itinerary planning is probably last on their list.

We prefer westbound TAs as well. Another plus for going westbound: when your luggage is inevitably heavier at the end of the cruise, usually you're just lugging it home or onto a plane, rather than on to more touring at your destination. 

If I were a cruise line CEO reading this thread, I would be very concerned. CC represents a faction of some of the most die-hard cruisers out there. If many self-described cruise fans even are unwilling to cruise with masks, social distancing, etc., what does that say about the more casual or even first time cruiser and their likelihood of sailing in the near future? It doesn't look very good at all...

We're booked on the Amsterdam 2020 holiday cruise (Caribbean) and are hopeful it will (safely) sail. From all accounts, it appears the Amsterdam will be put into extended layup phase soon and sit idle for quite awhile. With the Grand Africa canceled and the 2021 WC set to sail immediately afterwards, we're thinking the holiday cruise will be likely to sail, if only for a shakedown cruise prior to "the big show" WC. 

Fingers crossed that situation improves, either with a vaccine or herd immunity, very soon. We miss cruising, but will not go back until it is safer.

4 hours ago, crusinbanjo said:

 But what if they don’t have Covid,  in our area only 8% of those tested for covid, because they have some symptoms, are positive for the virus.  They way I understand what is being proposed is that they are only looking for symptoms.....  you could be bounced for any number of reasons.  I don’t think they have thought this through enough.

It's entirely possible that the travelling companion(s) might not have COVID, but I still think cruise lines will take the position of better safe than sorry. After all, why have a rigorous screening process with the high likelihood of upsetting passengers and denying them passage, and then still allow a potentially risky person pass through?

I imagine even more ironclad passenger contracts are in the future, allowing lines to bounce passengers for whatever reasons deemed necessary. 

9 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

A fair point, and I think you're right. Parties traveling together would have to all be subject to the same ruling.

And, having the same ruling stand for all members of the travel party protects a cruise line from having to split hairs in what will likely already be a very contentious situation. (I'm thinking: person x and y live in the same household while person z lives elsewhere, though they are all in the same travel party - if person y is infected, whom should be allowed to board?)

If a passenger is denied boarding due to COVID symptoms, shouldn't his/her traveling companion be denied boarding as well? (Even though the companion may not presently be showing symptoms.) We all know how quickly COVID spreads, and how it's all too easy for asymptomatic carriers to spread the illness, or for the illness not to immediately show up in those infected. One would think cruise lines wouldn't want to take a chance denying boarding to one infected person, while still allowing their potentially exposed/infected traveling companion to board and infect others...

3 minutes ago, kazu said:

I hope that one does sail.  Nothing nicer than a holiday cruise - I have been working on trying to talk DH into it for years 😉 

 

Fingers crossed for you and of course, I’m delighted to add it. 🙂 

Thank you, Kazu, and for maintaining this thread for us. It is such a nice part of the HAL board.

We love the holiday cruises, they are wonderful. The ships are decorated so nicely, and all the holiday traditions and spirit are present onboard. This will be our 8th holiday cruise with HAL, or as we like to say, "Home for the HALidays". Hope you can convince DH to go sometime soon.

We were booked for July 25th on the Rotterdam North Cape cruise. The itinerary was RT Rotterdam with ports in: Stavanger, Skjolden, Flam, Molde, Trondheim, Hammerfest, Honningsvag, and Alesund.  Scenic cruising in Sognefjord, Trondheimfjord, and Nordfjord. 

We'd like to re-book this for 2021, but the same itinerary isn't available and some of the comments in this thread are making me re-consider our itinerary. We've visited Oslo and Bergen previously, but the rest of Norway will be new to us. It sounds like Geiranger and Geirangerfjord are must-sees, are there any other cities or scenic cruising opportunities that are a must?