buckeyefrank

38 minutes ago, glentally said:

They are based out of a foreign country for a reason.  That is to avoid EE as you state and other fair, normal practices. 

The ships are flagged in a foreign country to get around wage and hour laws in the US (with the exception of the NCL Pride of America), not the financial reporting requirements.  The US has a set of rules named GAAP and internationally they are known as IFR.  They cannot get around these rules.

1 hour ago, ParrotRob said:

 

It's easy to just make up reasons not to tip.  Not everyone understands things like accounting and auditing.

And most days I wish I didn't :🤣🤣

39 minutes ago, Denverdonkeys said:

 

I doubt tips are audited precise enough for Financial Auditors to concern themselves with 100% flowing to the employees. They will check for proper immateriality of the net flow-through, and as you mentioned the indirect benefits could be the difference. maybe an audit by a government agency, but I am not sure of the agencies that would look at this due to the ships not being a US flagged vessel.

 

I am not doubting that a very high majority of the tips are given directly to the employees. It is too cynical to believe the opposite- and probably a view many take to justify removing tips.

Between the SOC 1 which tests the cruise lines internal control structure and the financial audit, you can rest assured the tips, DSC, services charges, etc. are going to the employees.  They would likely be captured under a revenue code (or handful of codes) that would be easy to test in a SOC 1 environment.  The auditor (SOC 1 and financial) would perform testing on a limited basis to ensure that the amounts reported as service charges (which have been asserted by management as employee funds) go to an appropriate account (liability account on the balance sheet).  They would also test the disbursements, making sure that payments that were made are appropriate.  Materiality doesn't really come into play at this level.  The amount of DSC collected throughout the year makes the account material and would surely be tested.  Carnival Corp shows that they had 12,400,000 passengers in 2018.  Figure an average of 6 days a cruise you are looking at DSC collected of about $800 - $900 million. 

I do certainly agree with you in assuming people who argue the opposite are trying to justify in their own heads why they don't tip.

39 minutes ago, sc4125 said:

I choose to believe that cruise lines aren't screwing their staff out of tips, you can choose to think they do.

 

 

That's because they're not.  They may not be going 100% as direct cash compensation but they are benefiting.  For example, it could be going to provide additional benefits they wouldn't receive normally such as recognition, days off, etc.

5 hours ago, glentally said:

This topic brings up the unknown of how cruise lines divide the tips.  So if I do early or late does that tip I prepaid for get divided between just my staff?  Thrown into a big pool and EVERYONE gets some? 

 

I know I am going to rock the boat but I don't believe the cruise company doesn't skim some off for administrative fees etc.  No one here can prove me right or wrong, its all speculation including my own comments.

Actually the financial auditors can prove you wrong.  Money set aside for employees via tips, etc cannot be used by the company for bottom line profit.  It's an easy test to perform to ensure it's all used for EE purposes.  Not one auditor used by any cruise line would sign off on financial statements where they were profiting from money set aside for the crew.

18 hours ago, FLConnie said:

We still like the idea of tipping those well who actually serve us.  Who knows what percentage they get when it's all divided out.  I will say, the 21 day we were on had the fewest amount of beverage packages the bartenders had ever seen. And we were 2 of 10 guests with Premium!  This was a new sailing for NCL.  They all said they only get 18% of the beverage package gratuity when they serve the customers who have it.  So their tips were way down for three weeks. Plus there were I think 144 cabins who had no add-ons at all (drinks, wifi, specialty dining, excursions through NCL).  So they weren't paying service charges on anything but their cabin.  Servers would run to us for service and practically make us take bottles of wine back to our cabin at dinner!

This is the crew worker trying to guilt you into paying more tips.  You have no way of knowing (and I imagine they don't either) where their tips are for a particular cruise until after it's over.  Maybe they do, but I can't imagine it being that real time for the crew.  Not to mention that those who don't have a drink package, still have an 18% charge added for gratuity that goes to the bartender and server.  It's not like they aren't getting a tip for all those people.  Lastly, the 144 cabins would still be charged the DSC for their dining room staff, etc.  The crew was playing you.

18 hours ago, casofilia said:

All is speculation until ALL cruise lines open their books to close scrutiny regarding any and all gratuities that pass through their hands.

They do...  Just not as detailed to you as you want it.  It's called an annual financial audit that's required by the SEC.

42 minutes ago, Cruise-Crazy said:

It makes things easier. Coming home this month they did not even ask to see the passport, the face reconstruction brought my info up on the screen and I was on my way in 10 seconds. I don’t think that system pulls data from other sources. 

 

Also so checking in is faster. 

Wrong.  We have used DL/BC in the past as well as passports on various cruises from quite a few ports.  Never was there a difference in processing between the 2.

4 hours ago, CruiseHappy1965 said:

We sail in April on an Eastern Caribbean cruise. Just noticed that my passport has expired. Question  I have is do I absolutley have to get a new passport before this cruise? I know if we were to miss the boat in a non US territory, there would be major issues, but does Carnival require a passport to board and cruise? Thanks everyone!

Assuming you're going on a closed loop cruise, NO you do not need a passport.  Only BC and DL.

1 minute ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

This won't be the first time a Buckeye was wrong.  Common sense and logic will prevail.

I see you're from Xichigan.   Now it makes sense.

1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

I think you're dreaming, the shipyard in Freeport is the stop. Sorry if this affected you're cruise, but you're not going.

This doesn't affect me at all.  I'm just taking a little issue with your outright "this is what's happening attitude".  Neither you or I or anyone else on these boards have any idea what's going to happen and when it's going to be fixed.  I CAN almost guarantee you it won't be the next cruise.  The shipyard needs to order materials to make the repairs..

3 hours ago, bronxboy683 said:

Why doesn’t the cruise lines, all of them, not let you know how the ips are split and to who? I wonder if a portion of the tips go into the cruise lines general fund? 

They do NOT

18 hours ago, Sailing Smooth said:

Where can we watch the Rose Bowl during our day at Harvest Caye?  Will there be somewhere on the island that we can watch it, or will we have to go back onboard?  Will they show it on a big screen somewhere onboard?  We are excited to see our Wisconsin Badgers play and our two cruising Badger daughters will want to see it, too.

I don't know about whether you can see it on the ship or island, but here in Columbus we will be rooting for you to beat Oregon.

57 minutes ago, fshagan said:

 

My understanding is that you are right regarding working hours, overtime pay, etc. That is governed by their union and the agreement with the ship. But, as far as tax law, that's not the way US tax law works. It has nothing to do with US waters or even if you live in the country.

 

US citizens are taxed on their world-wide income, regardless of where they are, and even if they are a dual citizen and have never set foot in the US. There are some tax deductions for seafarers, usually related to meal deductions, etc. There are also some "tax treaty" provisions where, if subject to another country's tax laws, you can avoid some or all US income tax with off-setting credits, but AFAIK, these don't apply to seafarers.

 

NCL pays US citizens and residents subject to US tax law with all the regular deductions we see on our checks at home; income tax, payroll tax, etc. People under the tax jurisdiction of other countries are paid without any withholding and are expected to settle up with their home country, unless that country has a specific arrangement with NCL. The UK has an exemption for seafarers who work outside the UK waters (if you meet the requirements you don't pay UK income tax).    Source.

 

Don't disagree with what you're saying here.  My "broad brush" is assuming the standard employee onboard with NCL is not a US citizen.

13 hours ago, don't-use-real-name said:

 

 

The beatings around the bush will continue until morale improves !

 

Really no one for sure knows if the DSC is equally applied to the non-customer contact crew and what if that amount is.

And no one knows if that DSC is used by NCL to pay less than fair wages to the crew and what those wages are.

(I believe the crew is not supposed to entertain talk about their pay and the details - maybe part of their perhaps

confidential contract mumbo-jumbo fine print of future continued employment).

Cabin stewards Butlers and Concierge if doing a good job must make good money in tips - as for other crew members

bartenders host/ess waiters tips are there but in uncertain amounts - the rest of the non-customer contact crew for

sure there are no obvious tips.

Whether NCL is paying out the DSC to any or all of the crew remains to be an open on going discussion -

So much for the "WE ARE FAMILY" tip sharing !

It is a questionable issue that NCL has chosen to bring on itself by this practice.

 

Ideas of increasing the cruise fare the amount of the DSC have been mentioned from time to time to avoid this

uncomfortable charge but little or no action is taken to come to a solution.

 

So we are left with "TO TIP OR NOT TO TIP - TO PAY THE DSC OR NOT" tis more noble to aw bah-hum-bug

- the discussion continues - one acceptable uniform global industry wide application is not coming soon ! 

 

The beatings around the bush will continue until morale improves !

Everyone is shrieking for NCL to put DSC into the cruise fare and they think that'll solve the tip issue.  It'll actually make it worse.  If it's included in the price, passengers will have less visibility into what the employees are paid.  More and more people will be accusing NCL (and other lines) that they are profiting from the included tips.

I can tell you there is almost zero chance that the money is going to the bottom line.  I am an accountant and have been involved in audits of a multi-national company.  Management makes their assertions and accounting procedures that are publicly available in the financial statement report.  The auditors test those assertions to make sure that the accounting process is handling transactions according to the assertions.  So when NCL says the DSC goes to employee compensation and programs, the auditors testing to make sure that the money collected IS going go employee compensation and programs.  The auditors would generally not be able to provide a clean (unqualified) opinion if they were profiting from the DSC against their assertions.  NCL is so large that for DSC to make an impact on the financial statements it would certainly be noticable in testing by the auditors.  This doesn't even begin to touch the SAS-70 reporting they need to do on their internal controls.

5 hours ago, softl said:

The wage information I posted was shared with me by an Asian bartender on the Bliss over the Thanksgiving week cruise.

 

 

A portion of their wages MAY be subject to US tax reporting.  It would only be the portion of wages that are earned while in US waters though.  The wage and labor laws are definitely NOT based on US laws.  US law dictates things like the 40 hour work week, overtime, FLMA, employment status, issuance of year-end W2 forms, etc.  Employees or NCL are not subject to those laws.  However, generally speaking income earned while in the US (I believe including US waters) would be subject to US taxation.  Different subject.

1 minute ago, Oakman58 said:

 

Correct.  The only NCL ship subject to U.S. laws is the Pride of America which is a U. S. flagged ship. 

Which is one of the largest reasons that ship is generally much more expensive than the rest of the fleet.

12 hours ago, softl said:

Just want to make a point here. The vessel is registered in the Bahamas but NCL is a Miami FL based business. The employees are paid according to US wage standards and are subject to US Tax Law. 

The cruise line employees are absolutely NOT paid according to US wage and labor standards.  I may be incorrect, but I believe they are paid under the laws of the ships flagged country.  I know for a fact, they are not paid according to US laws.

6 hours ago, Sam Ting said:

You mean like the stockholders?  

Oh please.... Can we stop with this nonsense.

5 minutes ago, grandmarnnurse said:

And those BC need to be original it’s raised seal.

Sorry that's not true.  It needs to be a certified copy issued by a government institution.  Not all have raised seals.  Carnival's FAQ section also says a photocopy of a government issued certified copy is acceptable as well.

3 hours ago, viperrtblck said:

thanks; might need some clearification now.  I see the package costs 52/day each person, totaling 416 for 8 days.  add 18% and it's at 490/person...right?

 

if that's correct so far, 490/$13 each drink = 37 drinks.  37 drinks/ 8 days = about 4.5 each day.

 

are my numbers correct for the pricing and all that?  also if the package isn't purchased, is bottled water still included in standard cruise fare of do I have to pay for it?  if I just order a water without the drink package, what do I get for free, just tap water?

Your math is correct except that everyone over 21 in your room needs to purchase the drink package as well. Tap water (which tastes perfectly fine) is available 24 /7 and is free to everyone.  Bottled water must be purchased unless you have the drink package, then bottled water is available unlimited for free. 

10 hours ago, Bsan1221 said:

My PVP said only birth certificates are necessary for my young children but I didn't see that specified in the guidelines. The ship is sailing out of South Carolina to the Bahamas. 

 

I want to confirm that what she said was correct.  Thank you.

That is correct.  You only need BC for your young children.  You didn't say, but I assume their father is going also.  If not, make sure you have a notarized statement from the father saying you can take them out of the country.  There may be a form for that also.

On 12/3/2019 at 12:38 AM, luv2travl74 said:

Sailing on Elation from Port Canaveral 12/28/19.  Sure would like to watch LSU win their playoff game!!  Anyone know if the ship televises national network sports programs?

 

Thanks in advance, and GEAUX Tigahs💜💛🏈

Good luck on finding the game.  They may show it in a sports bar.  Not to mention, you don't want to ruin your cruise when you lose to the Buckeyes do you????  :😁🤣

Thanks everyone for the information.  I will go ahead and have them add the titles onto their reservation to be safe.  They are both using DL / BC and they are both WAY over 18 🙂  so there won't be any issues for gambling or drinking.

Thanks all,

We are cruising next year on NCL and have a father / son with the same name going.  The Jr is boarding with BC / DL and his DL shows Jr.   Do they need to add the Jr, Sr designations or not?  I'm guessing no but thought I would pose the question.

TIA