hazence

Just now, Oxo said:

I fully agree with you. But,  what would you think if two of you posts, within a 2 hour period, were deleted? 

I know they were posted as I keep track of what I post.

I’ve had the same experience.
 

I just assumed that perhaps the “conversation” was perceived as becoming a bit heated...and the posts were removed to calm the waters of the discussion a bit.
 

Though why ANY of my charming, unopinionated, and congenial posts should ever be construed in that manner...remains a unfathomable mystery to me to this day. 😇

5 minutes ago, Dat Cruisin Couple said:

 

I agree. Saw an interesting article that getting people to wear masks for the community benefits is tough when people won't return shopping carts to the corrals in parking lots. <sigh> 🙂

i always return my cart. 😊 But if I’m one of only 3 people wearing a mask in my grocery store  (besides employees who pull them down to talk) ...what’s the point? All this pontificating sounds a bit weird in other parts of the country. Just saying....

Let’s remember on this particular board we are here to discuss cruising not an essential service  to sustain life. 
 

There are many vacation options....cruising is just one of them. Cruising is also an particular “experience“.... that is the reason for spending money to vacation on a ship. That experience is a about dining, shows, activities that include many other people. It includes ports where one mingles in crowds of locals. It includes crowded pools and show venues. All of these things do involve risk of some kind of viral infection...we have seen this well before COVID.

Some posters here are willing to assume that risk to have the same sort of wonderful experience that cruising has always provided for them. Others want an environment that is as risk free as possible...and that means imposing their needs or fears on others...and altering the cruise experience of others, so they can be included.

Again, cruising is one of many vacation options. Maybe the selfish ones are those who are demanding cruising be altered even if it spoils the vacation experience for others who don’t share their fears?

One can rent an oceanfront hotel room with a balcony facing the sea and have room service deliver all your meals...and thereby avoid crowds, unmasked people, and buffets. Some of the comments on here are so fearful and demanding of no risk cruising, it would be near impossible to enjoy “the experience”...it would be so changed, confining, and regimental. 
 

Why would any of us who are in open up areas spend money to “vacation” in those circumstances?

1 minute ago, irzero said:

It keeps hiding my posts but this is important bit.

 

Previous pathologies at the time of hospitalization - Italian Data

Patients with 0 pre-existing diseases 4.1%

Patients with 1 pre-existing disease 14.8%

Patients with 2 pre-existing diseases 21.5%

Patients with 3 or more pre-existing diseases 59.7%

 For the US...

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku
 

If we just look at the protests and riots analytically, there are certainly some COVID tests cases here underway.

There have been protests where hundreds of people have laid shoulder to shoulder, some masked, some unmasked on the ground. How can these states then tell people they cannot lay side by side on a beach or arrest and fine them if they do?

There have been riots where people are engaged in very strenuous activities, masked and unmasked,carrying heavy loads, huffing and puffing...loading vehicles, climbing onto vehicles. If people are allowed to do these activities, why can’t manual labor jobs resume with the similar choice to be masked or not?

There have been riots where a great deal of physical contact and touching have taken place similar to that seen in professional and college football. If it is permissible for large crowds to assemble to watch these sorts of extreme physical contact, masked and unmasked in the streets , why can’t professional and college football resume in stadiums again?
 

Just some morning musing....

“Nursing home officials had determined that her mother was now close enough to death to allow her to visit for one hour each day. Mastromano drove straight over. She put on a gown, gloves and a mask. A nurse's aide escorted her into her mother’s room.

“Mom, it's me,” she said. “They let me come.”

Her mother didn’t look like she did a month earlier. She was thinner and pale. She was on her side, breathing heavily and moaning. Mastromano noticed a new lump on her neck. She didn’t seem fully conscious.

Mastromano wished she could have been there during those last few weeks. How many nights had her mom screamed herself to sleep? Did she understand why her daughter had stopped coming? Was she scared?“

Remember stories like this...this woman didn’t even have COVID and loved ones unable to visit a dying family member to say goodbye. That wasn’t important enough to let you mask up and say your last goodbye.

But now...it’s okay to be out in a huge crowd out on the street...well, just as long as it’s not a beach.

2 minutes ago, KsucAts said:

 

And what about everybody saying that the crowds over Memorial weekend in places like the Ozarks were going to cause huge spikes?  So far, I have only seen one reported case of somebody who partied at the Ozarks.  I know the media is busy on another topic right now, but enough of them would jump right back into covering covid if there was a spike caused by those crowds.  We are getting close to 10 days now from those crowds, so I say chances are pretty good that there will be nothing coming from it.  

It does make one wonder. And how quickly the high anxiety and foreboding dread of the MSM about following social distancing or (OH GOD!) killing Grandma...has...just disappeared. 

In two weeks, we will definitely have some answers. We are, unfortunately, running a nationwide study as we speak.
 

If we do not have major spikes in these cities that are experiencing mass protesting....then we can be assured that young people, at the least,  can safely congregate in large numbers in churches, workplaces, and cruise ships once again.

Has there been any comment from Dr Fauci this weekend?  Are the media not talking about COVID anymore? Has their fear subsided?

2 hours ago, time4u2go said:

You might want to take a look at this:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_Floyd_protests#South_Carolina

 

Charleston: The city issued a curfew after protests resulted in vandalism of public property and statues and some protesters threw rocks at police and citizens. Additionally, several businesses and restaurants had glass windows busted. Two men wearing MAGA hats were assaulted. At one point, police in riot gear used tear gas to stall protesters. Protesters halted traffic on Interstate-26.

Columbia: On May 30, 2020, protesters marched from the South Carolina Statehouse to the city of Columbia police station. Several businesses and restaurants in the nearby business district were vandalized. Mayor Stephen K. Benjamin announced a mandatory 6 p.m. curfew for the city. Four police officers were injured, one critically. Later that night shots were fired at police, and the shooters were arrested. The officers did not return fire. The follow day, a group of 200 protesters formed in Marion Square.

Greenville: On May 30, two protests were held at Peace Center and Falls Park. Not affiliated with Black Lives Matter, the first event was attended by Mayor Knox White. About 300 people marched at the second protest, some arrests were made.

Myrtle Beach: Dozens of protesters attended a rally downtown on the morning of May 31. Protesters initially blocked the entrance to the Myrtle Beach Police Station in what felt like a "standoff" but when officers joined in and the Chief addressed the crowd cheered. Mayor Brenda Bethune declared a civil emergency due to a "credible threat" against police related to the protest. A curfew was set to start at 7pm May 31.

I couldn’t read the Courier article because I use an ad blocker...but I did google enough to

concede that Charleston and especially Columbia did have violent incidents this weekend. So I concede that point,

But please read this from the BIG city closest to where I live. No, it was not perfect...but  read the details. There will be no devastation to come back from. Notice that after the worst of the nights confrontation...people were still lined up waiting “to get ina crowded bar.”

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2020/06/01/george-floyd-protest-greenville-sc-ends-tension-tear-gas-arrests/5305987002/

“At one point, protesters asked the police in the line to hold a "Black Lives Matter" sign. One did. Officer S.N. Bowdoin.

That led to a negotiation: The police had done the right thing, now it was time for the crowd to respect their presence.

After a time, a captain ordered his officers to disperse and toward Augusta Street. 

The protesters were allowed to walk wherever they wanted.

At the intersection of South Main and Augusta Street, the crowd stopped. Older protesters held younger ones back. The police had allowed the crowd to police itself.”

All day there was dialogue between the protestors and the police, At one point, the Sheriff took a knee as requested. 
 

When night came...there were only about 100 people remaining.

“For one hour, a half-block stretch between downtown Greenville's Washington Street and McBee Avenue served as a no-man's land — the unclaimed space in war that marks the distance between peace or violence.

On one end, a phalanx of riot police — fitted in masks and shields and a cache of weapons of dispersing — stood ready as more than 100 protesters demanded to be let by after they were stopped at a crosswalk by a human barrier of lightly fitted Greenville Police.

If they broke through, the shields and weapons awaited them.

For two days, Greenville had managed to control its chaos in a way its sister cities Columbia and Charleston had not in violent protests over the death of George Floyd under the knee of a Minneapolis police officer.

But by 10 p.m., six hours since one of the largest marches in Greenville's recent history began as a "Silent Sunday" protest, the riot squad thumped their shields and methodically advanced.“

So then the police reaction changed.

“Conflicts flared up on East Court Street and West Broad Street, but by 11 p.m., authorities declared downtown cleared, and the squad marched in a line paired in twos up Main Street.

By midnight, the streets were quiet.

The sheriff and police chief were standing on a Main Street corner talking with people.

A block away, a line of people waited to get inside a crowded bar.”

That is SC largest city..right here in the Deep South. All politics is local...and dealing with protests means locals confronting other locals. DeBlasio’s daughter was out with the rioting mob last night..the looters honoring a dead man by stealing Louis Vuitton handbags. 

Greenville’ s Sheriff took a knee but stood firm when the protest looked like it might morph to looting and rioting.
 

There is a march in our closest little town today at 4pm. There will be no trouble. Everyone knows everyone in that town. My hairdresser’s partner was murdered last year by her husband. At the church service, her sons replaced the last hymn with the Country Western song...”Go Back to your Trailer” annoyed that everyone knew their “business.” 🤔

They just elected their first Black mayor in the town’s history. He loves that town and is loved by all. 

2 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

You might want to take a look at this:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_Floyd_protests#South_Carolina

 

Charleston: The city issued a curfew after protests resulted in vandalism of public property and statues and some protesters threw rocks at police and citizens. Additionally, several businesses and restaurants had glass windows busted. Two men wearing MAGA hats were assaulted. At one point, police in riot gear used tear gas to stall protesters. Protesters halted traffic on Interstate-26.

Columbia: On May 30, 2020, protesters marched from the South Carolina Statehouse to the city of Columbia police station. Several businesses and restaurants in the nearby business district were vandalized. Mayor Stephen K. Benjamin announced a mandatory 6 p.m. curfew for the city. Four police officers were injured, one critically. Later that night shots were fired at police, and the shooters were arrested. The officers did not return fire. The follow day, a group of 200 protesters formed in Marion Square.

Greenville: On May 30, two protests were held at Peace Center and Falls Park. Not affiliated with Black Lives Matter, the first event was attended by Mayor Knox White. About 300 people marched at the second protest, some arrests were made.

Myrtle Beach: Dozens of protesters attended a rally downtown on the morning of May 31. Protesters initially blocked the entrance to the Myrtle Beach Police Station in what felt like a "standoff" but when officers joined in and the Chief addressed the crowd cheered. Mayor Brenda Bethune declared a civil emergency due to a "credible threat" against police related to the protest. A curfew was set to start at 7pm May 31.

You made my point. Except for the incident on Columbia...no looting, no burning. Would you be afraid to come to Charleston toboard a ship now...or prefer to fly into Newark and spend the night in a motel there.

Off to water aerobics. 😊

2 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

I'm not talking about your magical state.  I'm talking about other places.

Yes...big cities like Miami and Tampa. My comment referred to the peaceful demonstrations without looting or violence that are occurring in many other smaller cities. But there are commonalities among many of these big cities that sneer at us rubes...who, now it might seem...get along much better with our own diverse neighbors. 

3 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Unfortunately there are violent protests in both highly populated and less populated areas.

no.  Even the big city...largest in the state near me...has seen no violence or looting. Please stop generalizing. Read local newspapers.

2 hours ago, time4u2go said:

Said the person in the least populated state.

Yes, we in the lesser populated states have seen less Covid. We are also seeing peaceful non violent demonstrations....the kind that inspire people to care for one another.

My older daughter drove thru her downtown area here in SC this weekend.  Some demonstrators of all skin hues were holding signs...and waving at people of all skin hues in their cars...who were honking horns and waving back. There has been no looting, no property destruction. She said there was just a nice feeling of a community standing together. ❤️

She visited a local restaurant...very popular and every allowed seat taken. People of all races together, happy to be out in public together again. Just nice friendly people out on a pretty day...

There really is no need to debate this issue anymore. The issue will be resolved for us in the next two weeks by looking at the numbers in many of the most highly infected cities in the country.  If...after what we have seen in the streets, in the parks, in the looted shops...there is no related surge of COVID...then we can be reasonably certain that younger people, at the least, can go back to work, to church, to restaurants, etc...without social distancing, without fear of COVID.
 

That is, if there are any workplaces, churches and restaurants still standing where they live.

17 minutes ago, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

I don't have to explain anything...the facts show the results with and without masks and demonstrate the value, as does the numerous medical expert testimony .

 

People are overthinking this - either you follow the guidance or you don't. The results where they are followed clearly show they work. Mike drop.

What comes thru in your comments is your fear. I’m glad you have your mask.

5 minutes ago, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

That would seem to apply only if some don't follow protective measures...otherwise the evidence is that where such guidance has been followed...the results have been significantly better (Australia/New Zealand for example).

 

People can't "kinda" follow the safety measures to achieve large reductions in risk no more than a female being "kinda" pregnant. It's for that very reason those folks refusing to comply (knowingly) are part of the problem and not the solution.

How do you explain the “problem” improving...or continuing to be non existent...without your mask solution?

14 minutes ago, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

How you came up with that conclusion is beyond comprehension...

Years ago, there was a hilarious Geritol commercial. An older couple was sitting on a bench by a river. A blanket covered their legs as they sat sedately looking at the river below.  Suddenly, happy shouts and waves...there were friends their age...white-water rafting down the river...having the time of their lives! 
 

This pandemic is not going to force me to sit on a bench, masked...as the rest of my life goes by. I will take precautions as I deem necessary for where I am. But Mr H and I will not live in fear...head spinning while “experts” change their “predictions“ “advice” and opinions  daily.
 

If cruises require me to sit in a deck chair, masked...six feet from others...I will just “Cruise” on our lake and enjoy every day.
 

If the Cruise industry is paying attention, they will see that there are not enough safeguards known to science to placate the fear of certain people. So why alienate those ready to cruise by trying to get terrified individuals on board? Make some sensible changes, with a light hand...and we can wave to the fearful as the ship pulls away.

12 minutes ago, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

Pathetically there are still others who are in denial.

 

Glad for those who seek to be part of the solution.

Fauci and his experts were “in denial” as the virus was peaking. But you don’t seem to care about what that “expert denial”  would mean in lives lost...if your viewpoint was correct.
 

Look...enjoy your mask. In many areas, numbers are dropping and masks have just never caught on.  That’s a reality you refuse to acknowledge.

 

What amazes me is how easily the Mask advocates have exonerated those who “fibbed” to us (supposedly) as the pandemic was peaking.  
 

Suppose a cruise ship was sinking and the Captain announced that no one really needed a life jacket because it was scientifically proven that they were actually not helpful to survival in the water..... and that you could tread water easily enough for hours without one. 
 

Then later, after many lives were lost, explained...oh gee...I just wanted to be sure I had enough jackets for the crew that man the life boats! 
 

Would you all really say...no problem! Thank you, Great Captain...and we surely believe you now! 

This excuse does not mitigate the fact that if Fauci and his other scientific experts truly believed that masks were an effective preventive...they should have rallied people to begin sewing them or buying bandanas IMMEDIATELY!  
 

Fauci should have advised nursing homes to mask their mobile residents IMMEDIATELY! Mask the prisoners....don’t release them!
 

That would have been a moral obligation to save these lives...that some think these masks are saving.
 

But I believe they told the truth then. I believe they did not allow the virus to peak and thousands to die unnecessarily. But the scientists are now trying to effect a balance between the fear porn media pushing horror stories and the actual harms to our health by people afraid to get their chemo, their checkups, suicides, etc.

If masks give a sense of security that’s a tiny fib....denying their effectiveness as a pandemic peaks...that’s a OUTRAGE! 

1 minute ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Oh no.......

I could start in on Chris Cuomo again if preferred. 😎

5 minutes ago, pcur said:

 

To me, the answer is to err on the side of caution because I don't want to experience the alternative.  So, masks, shelter-in-place, avoid groups of people, get tested, and book cruises with refundable deposits!!

Whatever....

We are having a lot more fun in my zip code.

13 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

But at least you own an umbrella just in case it starts to rain. 😉

 

Which is different from someone who refuses to own an umbrella b/c it only rains on someone else.

Very true.

Have a homemade donut.

I don’t think the pandemic is a hoax/conspiracy. I just don’t put up my umbrella because it’s raining in NYC. 
 

I have noticed when these refugees enter my magic zip code...in addition to attracting bears with their garbage cans and jogging on the wrong side of the road...they do adapt to our mask free folkways. 😎 So there is hope that away from home, on a cruise ship...they can relax a bit too.

Maybe the RCCL will need to have designated masked and unmasked cruises. People will be assured they are cruising with those who share their mindset. 😎