WeLoveCruising

Let me give an example of what I consider an Oceania failure in this regard.

 

I returned to the ship with some significant bleeding on the back of my hand. I did have a tissue, but wanted to bandage it ASAP.

The gangway was just a few feet away from the Front Desk, so I went there for the bandage; they gave me a hard time about it. First they wanted to send me to the Infirmary to get it (walking is very difficult for me). Then they made me wait until someone was free to go behind the counter and give me the bandage.

There was plenty of attitude to go around, and none of it was the helpful kind.

 

When a similar thing happens on HAL, they not only jump to get me a bandage, but they make sure I have extra.

I'm sorry that happened to you, Ruth. I am reminded of a cruise I did on Windstar (back when they were under the HAL umbrella). I was wearing open toed sandals and cut my foot in the restroom at dinner (tripping on a threshold). I didn't notice my foot was bleeding, but the waiter did and ran to get me a bandage. They also sent a wheelchair to bring me to the infimrary - totally unnecessary, I was just a klutz. Some of it may have been they were concerned about liability because the threshold was a large piece of metal under the restroom door, but it was a completely different experience than what you are describing.

I really appreciate your opinion and the thought you put into letting us know about your cruise.

You confirmed for me that if I sailed another line I might miss certain things about HAL...mostly the intangible things, but the things that make it feel like home to me. I've long looked at Oceania, and if the pricing were similar I'd be more apt to give it a try, but it's hard to justify the uptick. We are still working and have limited vacation time, so tend to carefully consider our vacation choices because we only get 1-2 a year.

It sounds like you made the most of the things you liked, and I really value your opinion on the other stuff.

Yikes to the bug story!

Thanks for the review, and for all the details your husband posted. We're on the Oosterdam in a few weeks, and you gave me plenty to look forward to (minus the bugs!!)

May 2015 there was no Taco Bar by the indoor pool on the NA It was combined with the Pasta Station in the Lido Restaurant.

Uh oh - I hope this isn't a permanent change fleetwide. My husband likes to hit the taco bar for a late afternoon snack. I suppose he can get the same inside the Lido, but if it's moved inside I'm wondering about the hours

We've definitely had them come by to offer drinks....both bar (paid) drink service, as well as coffee in the am and iced tea at lunch. But it is very sporadic, not reliable if you want a beverage as soon as you sit down.

We enjoy formal, or now "gala" nights. But one of the things we like about it is the feeling of the whole ship being festive and special. While the dress of any one passenger or family doesnt bother me at all, at some point if enough people dont follow the dress code, it feels pointless to follow it for us, because the festive environment isnt there.

While I would definitely wish people would follow the code to the best they can/their preference, I dont think it's right to expect them to if they dont want to do so. Clearly the tide is turning on this, less people dress for formal nights, and the ship doesnt have the same formal night feel to me. What I dont like is the "try to please everyone approach"....with those that want to dress doing so, and others not..... To me that seems a little pointless other than giving people the ok to wear whatever they want...which isn't that the case every other night anyway? people can wear what they want?....that's why the try to please everyone makes no sense to me. Not because I am bothered by what others wear, but becuase it's so watered down it's hard to find the point.

I have found that the market place "station" concept vs a line is confusing to some people. The Lido layout was designed to be one long line, so there is a continual cafeteria style layout to walk through. However, HAL designated different spots along the route as stations - pasta, Asian, etc. It's entirely expected and appropriate that people will weave in and out to go to their station, but other people at times will try to follow it like a continuous line. More than once I've accidentally offended people who think I cut them off, for example if I try to duck in to grab some stirfry and their in the carved meat area. Luciklly, except at peak times, there really isn't much of a line or an issue.

I like that HAL staff serves the Lido food, I dont mind the layout at all. I'm not a fan of the islands of food concept, with unmanned steam tables. But I'm somewhat a germaphobe....

 

Which line do I prefer? HAL. Why? I like my Wrap Around Promenade deck. I like the crew. I like the food in the Pinnacle Grill and the Lido.

 

B

Very similar to what I like. For us, the promenade deck is a big plus. We enjoy waking up early and doing several laps before breakfast. We also really like late night strolls around between dinner and bed. For other people it may not matter as much, if at all, but for us, those walks....being alone together out at sea....those are some of our best memories and one of the things we most look forward to. In fact my laptop screensaver and wallpaper are both pictures of the promenade walk.

We also like the Lido. Not for dinner, but we find the staff friendly and the selections good for what we like to eat. In fact when we stay in a Neptune suite we many times still have our breakfast in the Lido. We like the fact that they make eggs to order in front of us, so we are sure to get what we like. But that's just us. I read just as many people who dislike the Lido as much as we like it. I look at photos of the buffet area on other, usually larger ships, and don't like all the different food. Quanitity doesnt always equal quality. And while some have easier access (ie self serve soft ice cream machines for example), that just doesnt appeal to me.

I think you make some great points here. When reading reviews I try to keep in mind a joke I heard George Carlin make decades ago. His point was did you ever notice when you're driving down a highway that anyone driving slower than you is an idiot? And anyone driving faster than you is a maniac?

It's all about perceptions and what is important to an individual. What is relaxing to one person could bore another to tears. Entertainment one person considers Broadway style and extravagent could be considered amateurish and tacky to another. And yet a 3rd person might never go to a show and not care about entertainment at all.

I think it even gets more broad with food. We dont know how people eat at home....do they go to chef owned highly rated restaurants or are they more chain people? Or do they eat at home most nights? Do they have an adventerous palate or do they keep in a comfort zone? When reading about food, I try to discern whether people are talking about quality (the steak was thin and tough) vs taste (there was nothing on the menu I liked, the food was spicy, etc.).

And the thing is, no one is right or wrong. How many times do we read someone come back and talk about how horrible their cruise was, only to have someone else say they were on the same cruise and it was great? Which one is right? The fact is they are both right. No two people on the same cruise are having the same experience to begin with, and then each is going to perceive it in a different way. I think the problem here is when people are *told* they are wrong. Some people come across as attacking the poster, like they have some kind of bad or unrefined taste if they dont like something. On the opposite end, I find people who love HAL as I do are sometimes criticized with a "you must be old/boring/like bland food/dont' know what else is out there" kind of thing. Neither are true.

Same when people criticize HAL for their business policies, like cancellations and rate changes. I'm not here to defend a policy, only to say that when I read that kind of thing I try to look at it to discern if the policy was understood by the poster and followed consistently by HAL. Many times I see the person may not have liked the policy (rightfully so, some are strict), but if HAL makes the policy publicly aware, and follows it consistently, is that their fault? But from time to time someone will post a "Goodbye HAL" post over a policy that applies to all of us. That's their choice but IMHO it doesnt mean HAL mistreated them in any way if all they were doing was abiding by their own public policy.

I'm glad we have so many choices of cruises out there. In my opinion it isn't as much about any one line or ship being great or horrible in general, but more appropriately being a great or horrible choice for a particular person.

I've been reading everything you wrote about your cruise with lots of interest, and cant wait for more details.

Oceania has long been on my radar if we are to ever 'jump ship" on HAL. It's interesting, I noticed that NCL and Oceania are the two lines most people consider to try to improve on HAL. I think people who put more value on entertainment, dining choices, more action lean towards NCL, and those that put more value on the smoking policy, improved overall dining, and traditional cruise values lean Oceania. (Very general statment, I know). I'm definitely in the lean to Oceania category. What has prevented me from booking with them so far is that I wonder about the value for the price differential. I would expect that there are many things I would like better - as I said the smoking policy, a generally more upscale vibe, better food, I know I would like all that. But to justify the price increase, I'm not sure I would like it THAT much better, as well as I know there are things I would continue to like about HAL (more intangible things, we have so many nights on HAL it's just so nostalgic and comfortable to us).

RuthC's review back when she sailed was helpful to me, too and confirmed a lot of the way I feel. Cant wait to read more of yours!!

Thank you for a very detailed comparison. I especially liked how you pointed out what you liked and why (and vice versa). It always helps me appreciate new perspective. I very much appreciated the way you outlined everything, easy and a pleasure to read.

I think the scenic cruising out of st. Lucia is the most beautiful place I've seen in the Caribbean. Can't speak for Italy. I've never been there :).

So many places to cruise, so little vacation time, is my problem :)

I'm glad you enjoyed St Lucia sail away as much as we did. I really remember the sunlilght at that time of day, shining on the mountain, was spectacular. And my husband and I seemed to be all alone on the Promendade. I remember we both got a big iced coffee from Explorations cafe, and just stood out there admiring it, drinking our coffee. Really great memory for us.

Yes, it is to pick up people but the sail out of st. Lucia is beautiful and shouldn't be missed. I don't want people to think it's just a stop to pick people up and nothing interesting.

Completely agree, one of the most scenic hours we spent in the Caribbean.

I'm not certain on Mt Pelee, we've done in leaving Martinique before, and I dont recall it being anywhere near as special as the St Lucia sail away. Now, Stromboli, off the coast of Italy...THAT was something...an altogether different cruise of course but since we're talking scenic volcano cruising, if anyone has the chance to do that, it's well worth arranging dinner and your evening around that to be outside at the time.

Thanks for this great information.

You make a good point about the size of the ship - while the passenger space ratio may be the same, there are still some things that dont scale well. I'm reminded of a stop we had years ago in Grand Cayman, on the Ryndam. It was a tender port, and we were there with one of the mega-Carnival ships. When my husband and I were ready to tender back, we noticed that the HAL tender had no line. We had a quick stop to show our room key, and then we had an attendant with the big orange jug handing out cups of ice water while we waited only a few minutes for the tender. My contrast, the Carnival line wrapped around and was full of people that were grumbling about how hot they were and how long the wait.

I can also remember (now this will be going way back!) being on the old Norway for well over an hour in a tender line to get off the ship. Granted, lets hope NCL has newer technology and tendering than they did in say 1992 or whenver this was.....but the point being that some things, like passenger space, scale very well on the large ships, but some things just aren't as scalable.

Thanks for your great review! We are sailing on her next 11 day cruise, so this information is especially good for us.

 

Do you have any thoughts on shore excursions - either those you took or what others told you about? We received alot of OBC from the Anniversary sale (like you I bet) and cannot book these until we are onboard.

Pe

Also, how was the "scenic cruising of Soufriere Bay" after you departed from Castries, St. Lucia? How long did it last and anything of note would be helpful, as we are hosting some CC members for this.

 

Further, any information on the "daylight passing of Mount Pelee"?

 

Thanks

 

DaveOKC

We're on the next 10 day, so we probably board when you get off (so I really hope to read some of your thoughts!). Just wanted to add that we've done the scenic cruising around St Lucia on other ships, and it is quite pretty. Depending on the time of year....I dont know sunset timing to the ships departure since our 10 days is doing the ABC islands....but I recall once on the Statendam doing it right as the sun was in the "golden hour" before sunset. It reflected off the mountains, creating light and shadow that was really special. I'll always remember that time. We were in the low rent district on that trip, so no balcony, but DH and I got two large iced coffee drinks and spent an hour or so walking around the promenade, taking lots of time to stop and admire the view. I noticed other people with binoculars, so if you have access to some that would be a nice touch.

Hmmm, seems to me you asked and answered your own question.

Not really...

What I was saying is that there are many things I wish were different, but overall still enjoy the experience and more imporantly find a really good value for what we get. I cant recall ever writing an overly negative post of HAL, ever.

What I was wondering about are the people who come here and completely bash things, but continue to sail. Everyone will draw their own line somewhere, and have their own 'straw that broke the camels back", I suppose. For some that line seems way far out from where mine would be.

We've done this, and I vote for 2 cabins. The extra bathroom will be invaluable. 4 people getting ready for dinner in 1 stateroom is a bit much - even the times when we were only 3 instead of 4 - my DH, son and I in the Neptune.

I hear the person who mentioned the underage drinking. Your boys are a bit on the young side to be alone. We used to have check-ins for our son. He had to come to our room and check in at 11pm, midnight, every hour before curfew. We even did this when he shared our cabin, because he would do his own thing on some nights.

As far as access to alcohol, your sons wont be served on the ship, but my son, who was in all ways a good kid, didn't have any problem chatting up strangers and having them buy him drinks. That happened even when he staying in our room - he wasn't tethered to me 24x7. And granted, that was when he was more like 19-20 vs 16. I didnt notice he had been drinking, he told me about it the next day.

You know your family best, but those are the things I would think about - extra space and bathroom vs having them more in your sight. You can always do connecting rooms and leave the doors open.

Sometimes it seems when you read this forum that no one likes HAL. It makes me wonder, too, why some people continue to sail with them if they're that upset. There are lots of choices.

IMHO, there are a few things that factor into this.

1. HAL has gone through many changes over the years. The line has many repeat, long time passengers, and as such lots of people have seen the changes. And I agree, most of them aren't positive. I have to think about when we first started cruising with them, in the early '90's, and remind myself that there are positive changes. Back in those days there was no PG or Caneletto, only fixed dining, and IIRC there wasn't even in-room movies back then. Embarking/disembarking was a bigger hassle. There was no thermal suite. But there was also a much higher level of food and service. And back then, when the S-class ships came out, they were larger than the (old) Noordam and the (old) New Amsterdam we were used to. So some of us see the line we love changing, and slipping away. Compared to the HAL of yesterday, it's easier to focus on changes we dont like more than the enhancements we do.

2. Of the mainstream lines, HAL is the most different. Carnival, Princess, RCI and NCL, while different, have more in common with each other than they do with HAL. HAL is something that first time HAL cruisers will embrace and like, or not - but it definitely conjures up stronger opinions.

3. Cruising in general, IMHO, is overhyped by some of the travel community. There is no way a cruise serving thousands of dinners each night can have the same quality as a land-based restaurant. The speciality restaurants can do a better job, overall, than a MDR. A better expectation is good quality banquet food.

4. Cruise policies (and I'm more familiar with HAL than other lines), aren't the same as a hotel. And in most cases they cant be. Let's take a hotel that allows a 24-hour or even same day no charge cancellation. They have a good chance to fill that room with someone else, if not the same day at least by the next. If you cancel a cruise the last minute, that cabin goes empty. Cruise line rates and cancellations are more similar to airlines than hotels. I'm not saying it's fair, but I'm saying a savvy traveler will read and understand the policy before committing. A percentage of the complaints here are from people who either didn't understand, or don't like, the policy. I'm not saying I like it either - just saying when you read some of the policy negativity try to discren if the poster was treated according to the policy, which might be different than if you think they were treated fairily. Point being some of the policies, especially around rate changes and cancels, might not seem fair, but are followed fairly for all (if that makes sense).

I cant say I love everything about HAL, I sure wish the food was better. I wish the ships were smaller. I wish they would top adding more cabins in retrofit. I wish they wouldnt nickel and dime over things. But for me the positives far outweigh the negatives - and I dont think the negatives for me are different on other lines (at least of the same price category - true luxury cruising excluded).

Well, I'm not in the arena of $700 per night for any vacation, and I'd hardly call Maasdam "an old shoe", since I really love that ship, but "best" is in the eye of the beholder. I have repeatedly said that Holland America does not treat repeating cruisers that well, and I believe that is important. For instance, I have a Norwegian cruise planned, and since they are having a Black Friday sale, I called today to ask if we could receive some of the benefits. Answer was YES! Many hundreds of dollars received just for asking. This is what I mean. We've sailed for years (and years) with HAL and are just tired of the old story of, "oh sorry, too bad". It certainly comes down to value. You bet.

Maybe you're not familiar with a cliche of the old shoe. It's a term of endearment. An item that isn't shiny and new, but you love it for it's comfort and familarity. We love that ship as well, and in fact chose it for a burial at sea of a close family member.

Value, as well as beautiy, is in the eye of the beholder, and I'm glad you're happy with NCL's policies.

This is an interesting thread, my DH and I have been talking about this, as it relates to our upcoming cruise on the Ooosterdam.

I think when you compare the daily rate of a Neptune suite around $700 per day, you are in a different category of comparison to other types of vacations. In addition to cruising, we also do land vacations. Our favorite place to go for that is an all-inclusive in Mexico (this is a AAA 5-diamond property, very comprable to a Four Seasons, not a typical all inclusive you might picture). We pay $700+ a night there and it is well worth it.

For our upcoming Oosterdam cruise we are in a Verandah, and discussed upgrading to a Neptune suite. We both agreed that for the same price as what we could have on land, the value wasn't there for us. Our land vacations at that rate include significantly better food and service (as well as all beverages), and much more space, luxury pool, etc. That got us discussing if we should just cancel the cruise and do the land vacation, since we were talking about how good the quality was in comparison - and we decided no - we enjoy cruising too. We like being at sea, we like the whole cruise experience. And we think what we are paying for the verandah is an equally good value for what we expect.

Comparing HAL to other cruises - that's a tough call for me. My DH worked for HAL for many years, so we have spent lots of time onboard. I've also sailed almost all the lines in the Carnival Corporation. Other than Seabourn and Windstar (which was since sold off), HAL is by far our favorite. It is also significantly cheaper than the other two I mentioned, so it comes back to value. We know if all things are equal that we prefer Seabourn - but we dont find the differential in premium to be worth it to us.

It's been 10+ years since I've been on NCL, so it's I can't comment on that, although I really doubt it's improved that much to make me consider switching. But I also think it comes down to as others have said, what each person values. Entertainment isn't high on my list of importance, neither is an active night life. Good service, and personal space is (I hate how some ships stack people in deck chairs by the pool). Overall cruise "personality" matters to me - I like to feel like I'm on a ship sailing, not at a Vegas resort. I picture some of the interiors of the RCI ships, with the pizza parlors, Johnny Rockets, carousels, and know that is not for me.

For us, a HAL cruise doesnt offer the "best" quality of what we want when we vacation. Truthfully if we had our way we'd prefer better food, the level of service we used to have, etc. But it still represents a lot of what we do like, as well as a good value for our dollar. Plus we're somewhat creatures of habit, and HAL ships feel comfortable to us, like coming home. We still know some of the officers and crew. My husband once called the Maasdam "an old shoe" and meant it fondly. Since everyone values and prioritizes whats important to them a little differently, I expect a wide variety of answers here, and look forward to reading them.

I agree with what others have said. Although technically in the Lido, the restaurant is separated enough in the evening to have a different feel. We never felt as if we're dining in the Lido. The food is cooked in the Lido kitchen area, but using its own ingredients, it's not simply Lido buffet food plated up and served.

Even though it has its own feel, it's definitely not as upscale an experience as The Pinnacle Grill, but I dont think it pretends to be either. Yes, a home of its own on the ships would be better than a partioned area in the Lido, but most of the ships were built before the Canaletto was rolled out.

I've dined in Canaletto on several ships and have enjoyed it. My (entirely subjective) opinion puts the quality and experience somewhere between the MDR and the PG.

Yup, those three toots had my Golden Retrievers tilting their heads and looking at my laptop.

I hope the seas around HMC have calmed since yesterday, so those lucky people onboard are able to tender in tomorrow.

We have different favorites, for different reasons.

Best beach - HMC

Best local beach, with scenic drive - St John

We also like Dominica for the feeling like we're away from it all. We really enjoyed our ATV tour on our port day in Samana, Dominican Republic, including hiking to a waterfall.

We very much enjoy Greneda and Martinique. We'd like to return to Trinidad.

I'll try to give an example of different perceptions of style. Here is a link to a CC review and photo of the pool area of a ship on another line.

http://www.cruisecritic.com/v-1/reviews/review.cfm?ShipID=651

My sister saw this, and commented how much fun that ship looked like, and how she wished we went on it instead of the Noordam. Looking at that photo, she probably was impressed by her perception of high energy, music, those pool slides, etc. She looked at this and saw fun. I bet the Noordam looked boring to her by comparison.

I, however, look at this and think...wow, that looks crowded. I wonder how I would get a chair? I bet it's loud and I'd have a problem concentrating on my book. I dont want to be hot next to all those people.

It doesnt make anyone right or wrong. It doesnt even make one better than the other in terms of quality. I believe "better" applies when talking about a person. That ship is definitely better for my sister, just as the Noordam is better for me.