Skipper Tim

As to itineraries I would also suggest year round world cruising. or at least 2 consecutive round the world cruises per year. This is so that the "well-heeled" customers from other parts of the world may also do a full circumnavigation without having to fly to Southampton (or New York.)

An exellent idea. This is how MSC operate most of their cruises - completely circular with guests of different nationalities arriving and leaving at every port. Making this model global and continious would make a lot of sense.

Instead of a 4th world cruise the 3rd could run from April - October with a more port intensive itinerary that more or less takes in every single port Cunard stops at so passengers could stitch together 4 - 8 week itineraries with only a few repeated ports. Again a smaller ship would be able to dock at more interesting ports or in the centre of cities

Well the way to save fuel, maximise economies of scale and still get into the smaller ports is to have shorter and fatter ships with extra height that move slowly! Hardly the image of a graceful oceanliner. Length, not size is the restriction on ports, fuel is consumed roughly in propertion to the cube of speed (twice as fast = 8 times more fuel!), and volume above the waterline determines the guest capacity and hence economies of scale.

Perhaps Cunard could start a B-brand still with 'White Star service'. How about 'White Star' :). That would be a full turnaround.

Alternatively, what about an old school liner type itinerary that is not so much about touring exotic ports than getting to them without the discomfort of flying? i think it would be viable if the per-person cost was less than the business class airfare between the two cities.

Agreed. But please let it join Avos too!

I would have to say that another valued aspect to the Cunard brand is the British "theme" of Cunard. It's a theme that is more consistently applied on Cunard than the more "genuinely" british P&O. (i.e. P&O IS British while Cunard is British "themed") I would also argue that the Cunard brand delivers a "British" experience more than it does a "luxury" experience. (although in comparison to both P&O and Princess, IMHO Cunard comes out slightly ahead in "luxury.") Apart from UK and US offices, I think there is already an Australian office (?) and I was told by the future cruise sales person onboard QE that an Asian office will be opening soon. While I detect that some cruisecritic members may not appreciate more non-UK/US passengers onboard Cunard there is no denying the appeal of a "British" themed cruise ship to the growing Asian market.

Yes. No British line woud descend to offering a pub with fish & chips. They might as well offer a working man's club, sextist entertainment and football hooliganism. It is a fantasy British theme designed for North Americans. However, as you say, the 'British appeal' is on the ascendency to the economically ascendant and vastly populous Chinese.

For Airlines having boasting rights to luxurious business and first-class cabins adds to the perceived value to their economy class too. Would you say having Grills on board a Cunard ship adds to the luxury factor of the Britannia experience? I would.

The first class 'suites' on the new Middle-Eastern airliners are used mercilessly for promotion. They suites are frankly bonkers, with a seperate bed, sitting area with dining table and private bathroom - on a plane! They can only have been designed for marketing purposes. The ship-within-a-ship concept has proven its business merit. Some people will always pay the top rate, no matter how much it is. To cater for these variable few while still having the economies of scale to run the ship makes a lot of sense. Even without the extra luxury, many people are happy to pay more just not to be with people who have paid less.

So, perhaps we (fantasy cruise line managers) can ressurrect the historic "White Star" brand which were always slower than Cunard but had their better service standards, for a small (initially) fleet of short, fat, tall and slow cruise liners on permanent, port-intensive Word Cruises allowing a multitude of fascinating itineraries to people the World over?

I still would like to see a sister ship to QM2 with both on permanent scheduled transantlic duty. Yes extend the reach to Florida, and to France , Germany and Ireland. Much like public transport, once the frequency or regularity drops below convenient levels, the centre of gravity of the market shifts elsewhere. A regular, permanent service would attract a much larger market.

Interesting video, many thanks for the link.

Many things look the same but I can see there are changes all over the ship.

The MDRs appear to have both been given a total refit with La Pergola looking more formal with many more 4-tables and Il Rubino looking less formal, dare I say it, 'more of a diner', than before. Now, I just know that regardless of preference, MSC will allocate Aurea guests to La Pergola and Bella guests to Il Rubino with the Fantasica guests split between, probably according to cabin grade. They just do these things because they know best.

I recognised some of the staff in the video, especially the fearsome, moody waitress who we nicknamed 'Bubbles' on our Armonia cruise. She personally scared me off on the day of disembarkation when I had intended staying for lunch.

I will keep an eye out, as ever, for a good deal.

The current owners are contractually obliged not to sell the QE2 for 10 years (without a 100% payment penalty) which expires in 2019. Despite the reported $10M/year upkeep costs to keep her seaworthy, although not as a passenger ship, they may just be content to sit on their assett as she gains in value.

I would not be at all surprised if the owners are behind these regular press stories (and the latest photos of workers "roasting pigs" - a terrible thing to do in a ultra-conservative Muslim country - on the deck where so many famous people had walked etc.) just to milk the nostalgia and maximise interest in her eventual sale.

I would also not be surprised if the owners are waiting/lobbying for some future 'historic ships' exemption to the full SOLAS regulations under specific conditions they could exploit.

I am sure there is a lot we don't know and probably never will.

Thank you so much. We will be travelling with my kids and paranoid of the balcony :(.

P.S. The furthest anyone could fall from a deck 13 aft balcony is a deck 12 aft balcony as they are tiered all the way down the stern - a consideration when you feel less paranoid!

We went on the Divina, oceanview as well, last year and had a ball.

 

Any suggestion on private cruise excursion for 11 of us?

On that itinerary, possibly the most exciting stop is Tunis. Just wandering around the attractions of the cruise terminal complex is rewarding with shops, cafes, camel rides and musicians. However if you are feeling more adventurous, take the train into Tunis and wander around the medina in the old city. I was last there over ten years ago but it was very local and 'authentic' then. If you have a short shopping list it will make your time even more entertaining.

Also a wander along La Rambla, in Barcelona, full of street entertainers, is free and umissable.

8064 and 8161 are directly above the lifeboats and beneath the overhang of the balcony above. Apart from not having a balcony and just. 'large porthole' type window, they are otherwise identical to a balcony cabin and therefore potentially good value though, yes, the davits and balcony overhang may be considered to restrict the view a little.

You can clearly see them on this super sized photo (well 8161 is on the other side but has its mirror image on this): http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/MSC_Fantasia/Fantasia_110330-2806_b.jpg

I don't have the tools to mark their location but just look at first the row of balconies above the lifeboats and then for the cabins on that deck, Midships and forward, which only have windows instead of balconies.

In the same category (O-2) however, are the aft cabins on deck 13 (13199-13206). I had one of these on my Fantasia voyage. These are standard balcony cabins with full patio window/door but the 'Juliette' balcony is only just deep enough to stand on. The views on the stern at deck 13 are mesmerising.

These cabins are also extremely convenient for the quieter, aft section of the buffet (L'Africana) with its superb Ethnic Corner, own bar and free drinks station and the quieter pool, jacuzzi and bar area (Lido Catalano) directly above it via the 'private' staircases at the ends of that corridor. The nearest lifts take you directly down to the entrance of the panoramic restaurant which on my cruise was the one MDR used for breakfast and lunch and to which I was assigned to for dinner. Add in Allegrissimo and you have 'the poor man's yacht club' for these reasons.

On the Divina and Preziosa, the equivalent cabins are sold as balcony (B-1) cabins and priced accordingly. Grab one if you can!

P.S. Having said all that, we might want to add another specification for the QM3 / Queen Anne: be able to cross the Atlantic faster than the SS United States.

Yes! There is a market there. We all work on the move now. 5 days crossing the Atlantic with colleagues and prospective business partners may be far better than a stationery conference/meeting. Why be wiped out with lack of sleep from a flight, face expensive hotel and taxi bills when it can all be done aboard, in luxury, in the same time for less cost?

I always wondered about freshly squeezed orange juice as I've never seen it but you've often mentioned it so I figured it must be available. The stuff they serve in the MDR is, as you point out, only flavoured water. (Note to self - must track down real orange juice!:) )

Of course 'the orange juice question' is only one dimension (isn't that now a pop band?) of breakfast. To have an ideal cooked breakfast and be served fresh orange juice and 'speciality' coffees leaves only one time and place on MSC ships. When and where is it? One has to optimise with age.

I am looking forward to returning to Cunard in two weeks. Cunard used to have drastically higher rates to MSC but not at present - certainly in the UK. Having grown to love the 'Italianness' of MSC, I am sure Cunard's 'Americanness' and fake 'Britishness' will be a bit of a shock (there is unlimited fish & chips available in the 'pub'). I like shocks (cultural, not electrical). I do expect, however, fresh orange juice at breakfast on Cunard. I'll be posting my usual random live blog.

Stay tuned!

Don't know about freshly squeezed orange juice as I don't order it - I like the bottles of other juices on the menu which the basic package covers.

I too have had the standard and Premium Allegrissimo.

First the orange juice question. Yes, the standard Allegrissimo includes it but tracking it down and having it when and where you may want it is difficult. Actually, it isn't strictly "freshly squeezed". They make it in batches behind the scenes and serve it from a large jug. I have only ever found it at the pool bar nearest the buffet except once when they also had it at the other pool bar. If you arrive too early, like early breakfast time, they probably won't have it. The vitamin bar and spa bar have the facilities and ingredients (oranges) so could possibly be coerced. All other bars have the bottled juices which are a reasonable substitute.

The time I was on the Premium, I also took my own juicer and collected oranges the day before from the buffet so that at least I could have a glass of freshly squeezed juice before breakfast. The stuff served in the MDR at breakfast is flavoured sugar water and best avoided.

As others have said, the difference in price between the standard and Premium packages will cover quite a few pay-as-you extras. It really is only if your favourite tipple is not included that it may be worth going for the Premium. In my case, the superior range of wines available by the glass on Premium was much appreciated but I would not pay the difference for them. When on the standard package, it is easy enough to vary your habits and obtain amazing value for money from the standard package.

The standard Allegrissimo still includes almost everything on all the bar menus. Apart from the extra wines by the glass and bottled beers, just the 'premium' spirits and cocktails that include them are excluded - though the latter can be made with the non-premium versions. Non included items are marked with a red dot on the menus. It also includes the speciality coffees, smoothies, shakes and ice creams, the weird concoctions from the vitamin and spa bars and sparkling wine.

The minibars are very sparsely stocked and it would be impossible to get back the difference between standard and Premium on this even if you religiously cleared it every day.

Stick with Allegrissimo!

Almost all the comments defending the QV and QE have been from the perspective of Grill Class. Relatively very few Cunard guests get to experience this.

Classiccruiser777 made the most inteligent point that the Cunard experience is down to the service not the hull. To a degree, I agree. If this were the case however, why is there not a huge chain of luxury Cunard hotels around the World offering 'White Star' service? Of course, there should be.

No, the Cunard brand at sea is about ocean liners on top of the service. The QV and QE are not ocean liners. You may have a lovely time on them but you may have a lovely time in a tent sharing a chemical toilet as long as it comes with White Star service. "May I wipe your bottom sir?".

The QV and QE may be very pleasant - then shouldn't all cruiseliners be? - but that is it - they are cruiseliiners. The Cunard brand has rested upon its reputation for ocean-going vessels, not floating blocks of flats like mere cruiseliners.

"You may fool some of the people, some of the time"...

Ocean-going ships have the power and speed to cross vast distances at speed regardless of the weather. This gave Cunard the advantage to run the regular tranatlantic crossing in 5 days (not the current timetabled 7) as well as reach distant parts of the globe on schedule and in half the time of the average cruiseliner. Such a reputation should not have been messed with.

Yes, fuel is more expensive now but Cunard already charges a hefty premium above cruise lines to cover it.

What is Cunard now? A 'Cunard-themed' Carnival cruise line?

I'm considering a baltic cruise next year out of Copenhagen. Looks like a great price. Only speak English I'm concerned about a language barrier and whether we would enjoy the entertainment. Can you help make up my mind? We've sailed NCL, RCI, Princess and Celebrity. Thanks

The World speaks English now! Especially out of Copenhagen, your fellow guests will speak excellent English. As for the staff, they talk to each other in English. In short, English may not be the first langage onboard but it will be the second language of almost everyone.

MSC entertainment is mostly musical and non-verbal so as not to cause any language issues.

Fear not!

Unless you travelled in 'black tie' I assume you were underdressed for the first formal?

I have had luggage go astray many times - but always thus far with BA. The last time was when our flight from Manchester to Heathrow was delayed with weather and we then had a very tight connection on to Athens. I was travelling with around 10 pieces of luggage and some did not make our flight. A chest of drawers took two weeks to arrive. Then they send everythig by bus in Greece and I don't have an address.

Sorry to hear of your woes. Can't you invoke your travel insurance "I need a new wardrobe" clause?

It is a great itinerary so I hope you still make the most of it.

I have my own black tie event to attend shortly (see signature).....

I will be looking for the "gambees" but if someone has a link to post here, that would be great. I love the responses and attention here. Everyone is sooo beneficial here. Thanks "Skipper Tim" for helping me think like an Italian. It would be nice to link the dinner tables together if we can. Should I link prior to sailing or when we get there???

Onboard. Trying to do this before will only lead to disapointment and/or frustration.

I just looked at Gambees menus as I dont recall seeing it on the menu, but it is, the vouchers are excluded for it, but the premium drink package will be able to get it. Hope this helps!

Please could someone translate? What are the "Gambees"? There are too many "it"s for me to follow. And it doesn't help at all.

i

 

Hi Maureen...no I didn't see your post regarding karaoke 3 nights. I read somewhere that it was only "one" night. I hope it's 3 nights. We will be sailing on the Divina April 4th.

 

The Crown Royal question is for my sister and her husband who will be sailing with us. They will be buying the drink package and we will NOT. I am aware that we will not be able to link our dinner tables together since we all won't be on the same package. Bill and I don't drink enough to buy a package. We are also traveling with my 30yr old disabled son which I assume I will have to get him a drink package too since he is in our cabin. Eh....no thank you!h

So I'm not aware of the different blends of whiskey he is willing to consume. I myself will drink Costco and Sam's Club plain wrap brands.

Thanks for the info.

It is MSC's stated policy but a myth that you cannot link your bookings and dine together if you are not on the same drinks package. As I usually say when people are trying to interpret MSC's rules, "Think Italian". Do what you want and deal with the consequences, if any (and they are highly unlikely), later.

I could be wrong but that sounds like they expect you to choose your My Time and stick to it - could be wrong though.

 

It is early days for these experiences, so time will tell what it truly means. It is often difficult to understand what MSC intend!

Indeed, that does sound like different information and, agreed, this being MSC, we cannot rely upon it.

Headquarters should be moved to a ship where they have some idea of what is going on.

Call me crazy (many have) but $599 for a balcony on a transatlantic crossing is too cheep. Not sustainable. Think about it: do you really want to cross the Atlantic at the cheapest rates possible? Many do, and consequently the fares have been driven down. I just hope the passengers who sail at these low fares do not complain later -not about the food or service, but about the things passengers don't see but are more important to the operation of the ship.

 

$599 for a balcony on a trans-Atlantic - something has to give, and I suspect it won't be a pretty story.

 

 

Salacia

You are quite correct. What "has to give" is the air fare on the return journey to the UK which is thousands, in any currency.

As per your comment, I never complain. Look for my review here.

Japyke makes some very interesting points.

The OP rightly points out that Cunard is something of an oddity. It is arguably the most iconic brand in the industry but only has three ships. I thought I would slip in "the industry" but the truth is Cunard's industry is also an oddity. It markets itself much as the original design aims of the QE2 in being a hybrid cruise and ocean liner.

These days, I am sure most transatlantic guests make the crossing for pleasure but there will still be a significant number, I know of several personally, who use the QM2 as a means of transport because of the amount of luggage they have, because they don't like flying or airports these days or any number of other reasons. Cunard have no competition in the scheduled North Atlantic sea passenger business - yet, there is the Chinese-built Titanic II threatening to join in.

Then there is the traditional World Cruise - a 3 month journey giving passing glimpses of parts of the World without ever having to unpack or even change your restaurant table or table mates. I find it very eccentric. My QE2 Southampton to New York crossing was actually the first leg of the QE2's World Cruise that year. My fellow guests were interesting, well-heeled, of a certain age and yes, a little eccentric. Despite their excessive durations, the World cruises attract some of the highest rates per night of any of Cunard's itineraries.

The rest of the business is more conventional cruising with much competition. Yes, I am sure that MSC copied their 'ship within a ship' Yacht Club directly from the grill classes of Cunard and successful it is too. There are other similarities too: MSC is an 'Italian-themed' Italian cruise line; Cunard a 'British-themed' American line. They both have local operations to 'localise' the produce they are selling. In the case of Cunard this is limited to North America and the UK. The rest of the World may get local Cunard offices but they sell either the UK or NA product. MSC on the other hand have carved the World up into regions and each region gets a totally different product right down to on board service (it depends where you book as to what is included) and itineraries - rarely is the same MSC itinerary available to book in two different geographical regions though they may overlap and be on the same ship!

The contrast between MSC and Cunard could not be greater in terms of expansion. MSC have four new mega ships under construction with options for four more. Between the cheeky new entrants, where does this quirky Cunard line, with its ageing past clientele go?

The transatlantic service is core to the Cunard branding and probably very profitable. I note however that the QM2 takes two days longer than the QE2 ever did - less speed means lower net fuel costs, more time means more onboard revenue. This is a well-run part of the business but currently only occupies one ship for part of her time.

The World Cruise is also iconic but only open to the relatively well-heeled with much time on their hands. This is far more likely to me a 'once in a lifetime' holiday with little prospect for repeat business, at least on another World cruise. My mother can testify that the World Cruise crowd are very, very different to the 'two weeks round the Med' crowd. The twain may never meet. The World Cruise business looks profitable but again, hard to expand - unless there was far better marketing. It should be the thing to do upon retirment. Honestly, I think the marketing people at Cuard have no idea.

So we have we have a US cruise line with a split NA/UK personality, marketed on the basis of two core areas of business with little prospect of expansion, still catering for the well-heeled and retired, prostituted to a younger crowd as and when commercial necessities dictate and facing ever-increasing competition - with a severe risk on the North Atlantic route.

Well, I have to agree with the OP. It was a mistake to bring two ships which are nothing more than cruise liners into the fleet. After the triumph, originality and genius of the QM2, the QV and QE diluted the brand terribly. They got it wrong, big time.

1. Divest Cunard of these errant ships. There are plenty of places within Carnival they could go.

2. Commission the QM3, QM4 and the most luxurious new QM all based on the current QM2. They need dedicated single cabins and areas. Most of us are single now.

3. Make the transatlantic service weekly, year-round. "A luxury alternative to flying". (Two ships employed. Always sell round-trips for less than two one-ways.)

4. Put one ship on permanent World Cruise duty. Four per year, like clockwork.

5. Resurrect the brand! Drop the med-trawls from Southampton. Be serious, at least go through Suez and take people to places they could not get to easily or comfortably otherwise.

I can't help but feel that Carnival has thoroughly squandered a fantastic asset in Cunard. They bring their wrong knowledge and apply it ignorantly. Better to set Cunard sail free.

Those are my thoughts.

I think the discussion is interesting, as it suggests the UK travel market expects the bundling of cruise and air, which is not a U.S. norm.

I don't think it is the UK travel market as a whole - most of us are now accustomed to booking flights, accommodation and transfers independently - as much as the age group that Cunard predominantly attracts within the UK who are likely to have 'grown up' on package holidays to continental Europe in the 70's and 80's. The U.S. cruise market of the same generation are likely to have grown up on U.S. cruises and holidays where flights were optional and strictly their own affair.

I am likely to book the same December transatlantic and have monitored the fares either side of the Atlantic. In the U.S. the $599 fare has been around for a while and notably has applied to both inside and balcony cabins while the new UK £499 fare, including flight and transfer, only applies to insides. It is an extra £100 pp for a balcony. Also the sole-occupancy supplement is 100% in the US but only 50% in the UK.

On balance, I would have taken the $599 balcony rate and used Avios to return but the Avios seat availability that close to Christmas is zilch with all airlines. Also, US TAs are not legally allowed to sell air tickets to non US residents or citizens. I tried that route too. Cash fares on 23rd or 24th of December are expectedly prohibitive. Cunard did a wise thing reserving the flight seats at the same time. Hence it looks like the UK 'package' fare for me.

I am told that the sole-occupancy supplements on same cruise last year were removed at short notice. I tracked the November transatlantic fares this year both in the US and the UK and this was not the case for that cruise. I may hang on just a little longer in hope. If availability starts to dry up, I will just have to book.

No, the 'Free time' dining means you can turn up at the section of the MDR allocated to it at any time during stated opening times. I haven't tried it, nor would I want to, but I would expect it will operate much as open-seating works at breakfast and lunch where the staff will try and seat you with the people arriving at the same time.

There are relatively few tables for two or four so you may need to be lucky and insistent to be able to get one. Once the staff are trained to your ways, it should be more straightforward especially if you get there bang on opening time.

You may find it easier to opt for a fixed sitting with an allocated table. Talk to the maitre d' when you first board, and certainly before the first dinner, to obtain a table and sitting you like.

Curious which package will include Crown Royal.....Allegressimo classic or Allegressimo Premium?

 

Can anyone help. Curious which package to buy...the $35 one or the $60 one? Also, can a voucher be used for Crown Royal?

 

Thanks in advance!

Well "Crown Royal" is another of those terms I have had to Google for a meaning. Do you know that MSC carry it? It wouldn't be very Italian but then I gather it is the Divina that you are referring to and everything is different on the Divina.

Isn't one blended whisky very much like another? There are brand name blended Scotch whiskies included in the basic Allegrissimo. Won't they do?

Both cruises were booked through travel agents. In both cases I have insisted through the travel agents. Answer from MSC in both cases was NO, because of special prices. Nothing to do despite my efforts.:(

MSC may be more reluctant to give the Club discount when they also have to pay travel agents' commission. Or they may even suggest to the agent that they bear part of the discount - hence the agent's response to you, "no".

I have always found using TA's problematic. From things like this - obtaining the correct discount -, getting past guest no.s and special requests passed on, booking extras, taking advantage of advertised promotions etc. the extra layer of red tape, not specialised to the particular cruise line really does not help. Having to deal with MSC is bad enough already. To put a junior paper-pusher between me and MSC is guranteed to have unintended consequences.

I once responded to a TA's ad for a cruise with Royal Caribbean and obtained a quote. When I checked RC's website, there was an extra discount so I tried to book direct. The line had my name on record as having already enquired via that TA and therefore the extra discount did not apply! Had I booked 'direct' that TA would have still got their commission. I booked under my travelling companion's name and I have never used a TA since. Be very wary of TA's! Just talking to them can raise the fare and probably make it less likely to obtain the full discounts to which you are entitled.

This is the itinerary for Sinfonia's Repo next year

Leaving Genoa on 25th Oct 2015 for a 25 night cruise

Day

1 Genoa

2 At sea

3 Katacolon

4 At seah

5 Port said

6 Port said/Suez canal

7 Suez canal

8 Safaga

9 Aquaba

10 - 16 At sea

17 Seychelles

18 - 19 At sea

20 Mauritius(overnight stop)

21 Mauritius

22 Reunion

23 - 25 At sea

26 Durban

Pete

That is now in my diary. Don't tell anyone else :).

I can't even get the search engine working today - it goes straight to the 'Do Re Mi' error page. Should be good for business.

I wonder if anyone at MSC actually checks the effects of their meddling?

Xxubai falsh sale on in the UL tomorrow which includes Emirates flights from London, Manchester or Glasgow and Cheers package for dates in December and January.

 

I did I trial for 31 Jan solo occupancy cruise only - £1568 did the promo proce and it was £300 cheaper with the flights and drinks package. Emirates flights from Glasgow are £500+. Although website was just giving Manchester flight. Very tempted to call them tomorrow and get the price for the Glasgow flight....

I can't even get the search engine working today. It goes straight to 'Do Re Mi'.