pmacher61

If you have not been to Aqua or Blu how can you say the value is marginalized??

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It's easy. I hit the keys on my keyboard and the words appear.

p.s. Do you know what marginalize means? I don't have to know Blu to make that statement. All that one needs to know is that the specialty restaurants are better than the MDR and to the degree they are, Blu's benefits are marginalized.

pmacher61 - Did this Elite breakfast include a full menu? The Elite breakfast that I have attended was only a Continental type breakfast. No cook to order anything.

 

That's what I love about Blu! A full cooked to order breakfast with fresh squeezed OJ. Brought out fairly quickly, hot, and with a smile. Also, the waiters take their time with us and like to strike up conversations.;)

 

We do not find this service in the MDR during breakfast. And Blu is certainly better than the buffet. If we have an early excursion, we can pop into Blu and have a full breakfast served to us relatively fast as compared to in the MDR where you are led to a table of 10 and have to wait for others to order. The waiters are so rushed there.

I don't question that the breakfast menu served in Blu is far superior to either the MDR or the Elite+ menu though I would not be surprised if the service were similar to that of the Elite+ room (table service was quite good). The Elite+ breakfast was an elaborate Continental spread, e.g., various fresh fruits, fresh squeezed juices, espressos, cappuccino, cereals warm and cold, muffins, croissants, cold cuts, cheeses, etc., that I found excellent and, frankly, a better way for me personally to start my day.

It comes down to cost benefits which of course can be highly personal and depends upon how much extra one has to pay for Aqua.

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There was no separate elite + breakfast area on last fall's transatlantic on the infinity. Perhaps this is something new, or something they tried on your cruise.

All elites had the same breakfast area.

I was onboard for 8 weeks from Jan 2014 to March 2014. The ship was in So American waters. I will be disappointed if this was an isolated phenomenon.

The Celebrity Infinity had a separate, upscale breakfast room for Elite + when I last sailed. I assume this is true throughout the Celebrity fleet. The availability of this breakfast room was a pleasant perk and would further marginalize the benefit of Aqua's Blu restaurant.

Another factor further undermining the value of dining in Blu is the availability of discounted specialty restaurant packages. I have not been in Aqua or Blu, but I believe the Samsara class dining room on Costa is a similar experience. Assuming it is, I would much prefer the upscale dining in the specialty restaurants because the cost of these multi meal packages strikes me as significantly less than the cost of an upgrade from a reg veranda cabin to an Aqua class and the meal is much better. The spa admission, extra snacks, or one time flower offer, upscale soap, etc is of no importance to me.

For me, as an Elite+, combining a multi night specialty dining package with a reg veranda is a better value than popping for the additional cost of an Aqua unless that additional cost were on the order of $30 per day per cabin which I believe is typically a small fraction of the actual cost differential.

Last Sunday, the taxi mafia wanted $30 US or 400 pesos to take us from the port to the very close-by Sheraton hotel. If we hadn't had 5 suitcases and 2 tote bags stuffed full of crap we really didn't need to bring with us, we probably wouldn't have caved, but we did. My husband had asked them to run the meter for the trip and they refused.

By caving in when you knew better, you have made things worse for fellow travelers. Thanks a lot. Not.

Ah yes, but where does fault lie: with the person causing offence or with the person taking offence? Or a little of both?

 

Other culture's queuing habits are particularly likely to annoy many Brits. However, what is often interpreted as "pushing in" conversely can interpreted by the 'offender' and the 'offended' not showing sufficient interest in the object or service being queued for. These are differences in cultural behaviours and should be interpreted as such.

 

Then there is the old offence to the British associated primarily with Germans at hotels across the Med of reserving sun beds before they are needed. I read with some amusement that many German holidaymakers find Russians rude because they take their sun beds to their rooms overnight to ensure they have them the following day.

 

One should feel comfortable with one's own well-mannerred behaviour but the height of good manners is making others feel comfortable, even when they behave differently.

By definition the fault lies with the offender.

There is a difference between a simple cultural distinction and bad manners. Moreover, when one boards a cruise ship, one agrees to obey the captain´s commands and the ship´s policy of conduct. Accordingly, no amount of cultural custom can legitimize saving deck chairs. It is bad manners pure and simple because it violates the ship´s policy to which one has agreed to abide .

As for pushing in line, even a dog knows the difference when it is accidentally stepped upon and when it is kicked. There are limits to thinking its´s okay to push someone out of the way. I find it hard to believe that any culture´s customs sanction actually pushing in line or ignoring a line aboard a ship. In the unlikely event that were to be true, it would nevertheless be inappropriate because it is not the custom tolerated on a ship.

Bad behavior can not be excused by claiming it is unique to one culture because aboard a ship the uniqueness has to be suspended in favor of the published policy of conduct interpreted by the commander of the vessel. The height of good manners is not to simply make others feel comfortable when they do something differently, if what they do differently, exceeds the bounds of the applicable rules of conduct. There are limits to cultural relativism. Likewise, on board a ship it´s not okay to practice homophobia or misogyny just because one can do it at home.

I have been trying to locate a calendar of times when 123 was not on offer over the last year or so. Do you know the particular periods it was not valid?

 

To my mind, every time one offer expired, another came into play and took its place.

I booked my Equinox cruise right after Christmas. At the time I booked, the famous "75% off" TA web site showed no 123 for balconies but 123 for oceanview. A week later that changed and the price inversion had ended. I don´t now recall whether that was because the 123 ended for oceanviews or it was implemented for balconies. More than this I can not say re the subject of periods when 123 was not on offer..

Yikes! Yes it is GV Tours - thanks for the insurance information - something else for me to worry about! What ended up happening with regards to your accommodations? Sounds awful!

As fate would have (thankfully) we had a delayed flight missing a connection to Puerto Montt so the airline put us up in a Santiago Sheraton at no cost. When we got to Puerto Montt we nevertheless were required to pay a huge % of the B&B price. We were glad to do so as we would not have liked sleeping in the quarters set aside for tourists..

The father who took us on a tour the next day drove like a cowboy and was hardly bilingual. I understand he was filling in for another family member so others may have had a better tour experience than we did.

The front of the house was damaged quite a bit and the reason given was the absence of insurance coverage for the repairs.

Contact Tienda Manuel Leon http://www.tiendaleon.com/resultados/busqueda/remis/

to inquire if they will store your bags until you use their transportation service to EZE later that day.

I have taken 5 cruises this year that have disembarked in Buenos Aries and I live there part of the year.

It really isn't necessary to have your hotel send a car. In fact, it might be counter-productive ,i.e., terribly expensive, as you can not predict with any certainty when you will actually disembark. A waiting car would have to charge you for waiting time.

As mentioned above, without luggage you could walk from the port exit doors to anywhere in Recoleta in less than 1/2 hour. The Sheraton in the Retiro (adjacent to the Recoleta) is a 10 minute walk. From the port to most Recoleta hotels (Four Seasons, Hilton, Alvear Palace, Marriott, etc) a metered cab would cost about 60 pesos, less than US $5 at the black market rate (see http://www.ambito.com for rates) - were it not for the mafiosa that seems to run the port cabs lined up at the exit doors. These guys tend to quote fixed prices in dollars and at rates that far exceed metered fares.

However, as I can speak some Spanish I can defy any attempts to overcharge and will not tolerate their nonsense. I haven't had problems recently. I simply insist upon using the meter as they are legally required to do. If I were not able to get my assigned cab to drop its insistence on charging an inflated fixed dollar price, I would ask for a different cab. If I were to encounter stiff resistance and delay, I would simply walk across the street (10 meters) to hail a street cab.

Be aware they cabs are entitled to charge a modest amount for each large suitcase, somewhere about 5 pesos. Also there are 2 discrete fares, one for day time (drop is 14.30 pesos) and another for Sundays and nights (higher drop and rates). Tipping is neither expected or required.

Yes, there has been a problem.

When I toured with them (the dad), I also booked a night in their B&B (their home). The house was in a state of disrepair because they had failed to maintain insurance on it (after a motor vehicle had slammed into it). I wonder whether they are as lax about maintaining ins coverage for other types of accidents or maintaining such minimum requirements as the law may mandate for a tour operated vehicle.

you are correct. my bad... apologies...

 

thanks all for the great info!

It takes character to admit a bad....good for you. Take USD to Bs As . It will be easy to find an exchange house to get the blue rate.

I went back and reviewed the price offerings. From one TA, a C2 with all 3 of the 123 promo freebies was 5850 for 2 pax whereas without the 123 promo the same C2 was 4900. So it´s approx 950 to get the bevereage package, prepaid grats (280) and 300 additional obc. Not too bad if you want the Concierge with the additional cost it comes with.

p.s. I wound up booking a 2D guarantee from a different TA . It came with free grats (264) and a 250 obc for 3870. Their price for a balcony with paid grats and only the beverage package option was 4470 which is 600 for the bev package. We won´t drink that much.

I have read through this thread and am surprised that no one has mentioned the difference in base prices when the 123 promo is offered.

When I priced out the options for a Mar 16 Equinox cruise on one popular web site it curiously showed oceanviews as quite a bit more expensive than balconies. I discovered the cause of this curiousity by reading the promo offer - it was because the oceanviews offered the 123 promo and the balconies did not.

This may have been a unique or rare circumstance, but I came to the conclusion, possibly erroneous (I often am), that the inclusion of the 123 raised the base price of the oceanviews about $500 pp. Unless one opted for the drinks package there was no real savings with the promo base price so inflated. My elite Plus status will allow us the opportunity to enjoy a free cocktail - I´ll purchase a wine package for a couple of hundred.

On the Concierge class v standard balcony (2A-2D) debate, I note that the 2Ds were located midship and the C2 (1655) I was upgraded to from a C3 was quite aft and $400 more than a 2D guarantee. I prefer the midship location to an unobstructed view. On this ship we will use the balcony principly for drying our gym clothes (there are no self service laundries) and only occasionally for reading or having a drink. The absence of a view will underwrite the cost of wine and specialty dining... a better way to allocate my money. I have seen the sea before and it hasn´t changed much.

If you encounter someone who is continually being particularly offensive, don't wait 'til you get home to write about it, don't confront them or challenge them, just report their actions to ships officer in charge of that particular department. I have always found that to be productive. Notice I said "continually particularly offensive" a lot of times, some people seem rude because they just didn't think about what they are doing. I'm guilty of that myself at one time or another.

Confront, no, but I question why one should not "politely" or tactfully (at first one deserves the benefit of the doubt) ask the offender to stop the offensive conduct. To do so may help others affected by the impolite conduct. Subsequently reporting to a ship officer that a guest pushed in line or improperly reserved a deck chair may be ineffective and inordinately time consuming.

I thought Frutillar was a nice visit and suggest you include it in a tour of the area.

If you choose GV I also suggest you inquire whether they have insurance for the vehicle and are licensed in other repects.

We will be in BA for 4 days and Chile for the same. so, what is the preferred currency? research says C-notes are best for cambio, but how many does it take? how many small bills in $US? are ATM's a better choice?

 

happy new yearrr!

You can check the "oficial" versus the "informal" or "blue" rates here: http://www.ambito.com/economia/mercados/monedas/dolar/

 

means nothing to me. can you just answer the question?

always, learned that lesson in Mexico years ago. thanks for the reinforcement tho...

 

m

How can anyone answer your question without knowing your budget, tastes, accomodations, shopping habits, etc To think one could "just answer the question" is silly and your reply to good information i.e. your intemperate insistence on just an answer to how much money you should carry to finance your stay is worse.

If you are staying in the Alvear Palace, dining at the best restaurants, and buying furs and crocodilo leather shoes, bags, belts etc, I might suggest 20,000 USD. Less if you are not.

You are correct that food is indeed subjective. I've spent just short of 100 days on Azamara this year (said as an endorsement of experience rather than as a brag and I feel very fortunate to be able to have done it) and most of the time found the food very good indeed. Sometimes excellent and occasionally disappointing. However I would never describe the food or its advertisement by Azamara as "haute cuisine". There just isn't the food supply chain or individual preparation time to achieve that.

 

Phil

Phil, thanks for taking time to comment. Re the description of the chef's table dinner as haute cuisine... that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet; however, when I spend an additional 75 bucks pp for a meal I would expect elaborate cooking, e.g. haute cuisine. Especially when the charge for the "specialty" restaurants is $25.

I did the chef's table aboard the Norwegian Breakaway earlier this year. It was also for 12 people, cost $100, included a galley tour, three 7x12" photos, and a better much meal.

Aboard the Journey I was disappointed by the quality of food in general. I had a few good meals, but there were too many disappointments. If Azamara's competition is Oceania and if my experience is any indication of the comparison, Oceania wins hands down.

I was on the same Rio to Buenos Aires 9 day cruise that disembarked Dec 22.

I've been on over 70 cruises including now 2 on Azamara, 2 on Oceania, Seabourn, Crystal, and a range of other lower price point lines over the past 25 years. I have been at sea for 100 days this year. In my opinion, service by all staff, crew and officers (with one exception by Guest Services) was excellent. In particular, all dining room/buffet staff were extraordinarily efficient, polished and friendly without being intrusive. Heike, the Hotel Mgr, was more hands on than any other 4 striper I have ever observed at sea. She does a great job with staff.

I can not say the same for the food. I have occasionally written about food/restaurants for a couple of small So Am publications. In anticipation of the platitudinous "tastes in food are so subjective" rejoinder, it's my observation that there are sufficiently well-defined limits to the subjectivity of food taste and quality that most people can generally agree that something is good, bad, or in-between, e.g. most would prefer a well prepared lobster to poorly prepared frozen fish sticks.

We tried the French chef's table ($75 pp add-on) and I was disappointed. As is customary with haute cuisine, there were no condiments on the table (insulting the chef and all that). Unfortunately, my appetizers/soup would have benefitted from some spicing up. Please pass the non-existent pepper and olive oil for that tuna tartar. Lackadaisically, I chose not to bother asking our waiter to retrieve some. My bad.

The main course of beef loin was, not surprisingly, as flavorless as it was tender. Change the cut or sauce it more elaborately. The sommelier droned on with esoteric comments on the wines to such length that one was tempted to start a food fight or do anything else that would get him to stop talking and start refilling glasses. I find it hard to believe any of the 12 diners were interested in how long before the must is separated from the pomace of each wine.

I experienced the same disappointment in Aqualina ($25 pp add-on). The ravioli pasta encasing a lobster flavored filling (vaguely so flavored owing to the apparent paucity of lobster) was gooey/mushy almost to the point of inedibility. Were they reheating these things in a microwave? In order to constitute a decent portion, the two large shrimp scampi of my main course had to be plated along with 3 medium shelled shrimp, the kind served throughout the ship. What about just adding one or two more large prawns cooked as scampi? The pasta side (a requested substitute for rice) was dry and ordinary.

I fared better in Prime C, but just barely. The lobster bisque was nothing like the rich creamy concoction I have had in other specialty restaurants on other lines. The one spaghetti noodle floating in the dish was as much a surprise to my waiter as me. He later informed me it was designed as the raft supporting the lone miniscule piece of lobster served atop the bisque. The veal tenderloin main was okay, but I would have preferred the option of a more flavorful veal chop. The accompanying baked potato was obviously reheated/nuked, but it still arrived insufficiently warm. Service was okay, but no better than the MDR.

Speaking of the MDR, I ordered the Chef's Selection on the first night - pork scallopini with a crab sauce. It was not good. Nor was I impressed (favorably) with any of the subsequent meals in the MDR. Ditto for the buffet in Windows Café. I have to believe Azamara has cut back on food costs. Either that or it needs to reexamine its home office menus/preparation. The paradigm example of ineptitude were the corned beef finger sandwiches served after returning from the Azamazing evening - 2 inches of bread (not rye) surrounding a thin sliver of beef. They got the bread and the beef confused!

The hamburgers served at the pool grill can stand to be upgraded and why was sweet pickle relish only available upon request? Unlike the hamburgers, the veggie burgers were prepared freshly each time and were very good.

Lastly, what is with the all inclusive drink list? The house wines were fine, but I thought that the selection of mixed drinks that were not included made little sense. After all, other mixed drinks using identical or almost identical ingredients (no cost differential) were included. I could have a bloody mary, grasshopper, marguarita, or screwdriver free , but not a Negroni or cosmo? It struck me that there was little thought given to the composition of the all inclusive drink list. A minor distraction, but perhaps an indication of the frugality of the executive menu makers.

p.s. When operating in So Am waters some thought should be given to keeping the dining venues open later in the evenings. People who live in Bs. As. seldom sit down to dinner before 9 pm - when the MDR and specialty restaurants were closing down.

p.p.s. I would have liked some more dance music before dinner. The orchestra was great, but seldom played for dancing.

p.p.p.s Don't get me wrong - I enjoyed the cruise. Food was disappointing only because I had higher expectations.

MSC has not completed the transition from the handling of freight to the handling of people.

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."

John Kenneth Galbraith

To be able to draw any sort of inference about MSC one must start with a randomly selected sample of MSC guests. Cruise Critic is dominated by North Americans who are accustomed to American cruise lines. MSC is not an American cruise line and does many things differently to them. North Americans are a tiny minority of MSC guests yet dominate the CC reviews and ratings.

Then at the very least you would agree that the Cruisers Choice all time ratings, a tabulation of over 145,000 written reviews, is a valid indicator for how North Americans rate MSC service compared to other lines, right?

Further, 'seasoned' NA cruisers are likely to be the most critical simply because they are most likely to be set in their ways and not appreciative of change and 'foreign' ways of doing things.

Is there something about North Americans that makes them "most likely to be set in their ways and not appreciative of change etc ?" Do you really want to make this argument? It sounds similar to the OP's criticism of rude Europeans (and just as devoid of facts you yourself demand to support such controversies). You regarded that kind of specious argument as "tosh."

So, just how can any conclusions be drawn from the opinions of the most disgruntled, axe-grinding, self-selected minority of a minority of MSC guests?

They cannot! They cannot.

Skipper Tim, calm down. The citation to the results of the Cruise Critic Cruisers Choice ratings appears to have agitated you. Talk about disgruntled, axe-grinding. How do you know that those who wrote reviews and gave uniquely abysmal ratings for MSC's service were any more or less disgruntled or axe-grinding than those who submitted reviews of other lines? Or do you mean to say all Cruise Critic reviewers are disgruntled and axe-grinding, not just those writing reviews of MSC ? Hmmm.

I will be on the QM2 next week and I am sorely tempted to document my observations as 'a rude European' of this American line. However, there will be strengths and weaknesses as there are with any line or travel experience and I hope I never write such tosh, even in anger.

 

Cruising is no longer restricted to just the American way of cruising, thank heavens.

 

Rude European,

Have a great cruise.

That may be as a result of this website being an English language one. MSC are more likely to have a more diverse customer base with the majority of cruisers speaking languages other than English.

So you agree then that the Cruisers Choice poll on THIS website is valid for the users of THIS website. I have no problem understanding that MSC might receive higher marks from a non-US or non-English speaking website, however, I have never seen any foreign language website with different results. The closest thing to a comparative comprehensive foreign analog is the UK website of CC and the results are the same. MSC is rated lower by the cruising public.

But even taking into account price MSC is rated by the universe of CC members as the worst value. See http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberpoll_all.cfm?rating=ValueforMoney

We've never cruised either Cruise Line with a tour, but we have cruised both on regular cruises, and MSC's product in the Divina is vastly superior to any Carnival Ship product in the Caribbean right now! Would I cruise on Carnival in the future, yes for the right price, and itinerary! Are there things I like about Carnival, yes!

But if we had a choice between Carnival and Divina with everything being equal, (price/itinerary) its Divina easily by a wide margin!:D

Yes, these are the forums where consumers come to obtain good information about cruises. It is beyond dispute (to the rational) that one man's opinion is just that, and that because opinions are so subjective one man's opinion, while sincere, is just not a reliable indicator of the real quality of a cruise product.

At the risk of being attacked as some evil intentioned kook, it bears repeating at these threads that speak about comparisons between lines that this web site has the ideal info - the all-time Cruisers Choice poll. It tabulates tens of thousands of reviews. For overall quality, see http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberpoll_all.cfm?rating=Overall

The average Carnival ship rating is about 4.2. The average MSC rating is about 3.6. That's a pretty significant difference. MSC appears to be the lowest rated line by quite a bit. Not a single MSC ship of many is rated higher than any of the many Carnival ships. All MSC ships, including the Divina (3.9), are rated lower in the overall category than all Carnival ships (except the lowest rated of all Carnival ships with which it is tied).

Does the Caribbean locus really matter? Is there something about MSC's product quality in that area of the world that justifies confidence that a prospective customer would prefer MSC to Carnival (or any other line)?

One wonders whether MSC realizes that passengers need to be treated differently than freight. The experience of this OP is scandalous. Where is MS MSC when we need her?

Some parts of Recoleta and Retiro are adjacent (or nearly so) to Puerto Madero. The Sheraton is in Retiro, the Marriott in Recoleta and the Hilton in Puerto Madero (I believe). I prefer Recoleta (CasaSur, Alvear Palace, Sofitel, Four Seasons, Mio Buenos Aires among others).

In any case, you should be able to upgrade your price point by paying for the hotel with local cash obtained in BA by exchanging USD at a local exchange house. You may be required to use plastic to secure the reservation, but you should almost certainly will be able to ask for a credit back to your card and pay in pesos. Doing this will allow you to pay $200 for a room priced at $350/night.

The sociopolitical scene in Arg is such that an awful lot can change between now and Feb 28 , 2016. I suggest you defer selecting, much less making a deposit on, a hotel for at least a year.