alwaysflyin

Hi all, on the Allure 12/23-12/30 (in a few weeks).  Our third day has a port at Roatan, one of my favorite destinations.  Last time we paid for the "Tabyana Beach Break" excursion and loved it.  This time we're wondering how hard it is to just reserve a private van, shuttle over there, stay a few hours, eat lunch at a restaurant on the beach, and then return.  Has anyone done this?  I do know that the place will be super packed because of the holidays.  Would love your advice, thanks!

One of the most important changes that needs to happen is dropping the vaccination requirements for the 12-18 kids.  There is no justification for requiring vaccines at this point.  You can make a case for 80 year-olds but not 12 year-olds.

3 hours ago, sford75 said:

Have you gotten an email asking you to verify vaccination status? If not, check your junk in case it's there. 

 

Yes, they have, and I did respond.

I am nervous about this because I am taking an unvaccinated 10 year-old on a cruise on 3/13.  I've been worried that they would tell us that she couldn't cruise.  However, I've now decided that that would create such terrible PR that they can't do it at this late of a date.  Fingers crossed anyway.

I predict that this is going to be a HUGE issue with mid-March spring break cruises, which are largely compromised of families.  A ship with 3000 passengers can only have 150 unvaccinated kids age 5-11 to conform with the 5% rule, and that's assuming no adult medical exceptions.  I'm just going to estimate that such a ship has at least 400 kids total in that age range.  Given that 75% of children in that age range are unvaccinated, that means approximately 300 unvaccinated kids, or 150 OVER the designated number.  What does RC do in that case?  This cruise is only 2.5 weeks away.  I am sure hoping that RC grandfathers in all unvaccinated kids in that age range who are already booked, since they've been telling us that unvaccinated kids CAN cruise through mid-April.

12 hours ago, tserface said:

If I had unvaccinated kids, or others in my family, I wouldn't bring them on a cruise ship. It would be awful for someone to get full on deathly ill, without protection, on cruise ships again. It’s not only bad for the ill person being away from home and the best care, but it will ruin cruising for everyone if another serious outbreak happens on board. Why take that kind of risk? There are lots of safer vacations where people aren’t so closely grouped.

I'm bringing my unvaccinated 10 year-old on Royal next month.  She and I have both already had covid (caught it on a Royal cruise ship, most likely, back in March 2020 and had very mild symptoms) and she's since been exposed to covid superspreader events, repeatedly, Delta and Omicron, and not gotten it again.  Yes, she was tested each time--negative.  I'd put her immunity against that of a boosted older person any day.  Her risk of serious illness or death is a lot lower than that of a boosted 80 year old with multiple co-morbidities but those people seem to have no problem sailing.  Royal seems to know that too, as vaccines are still not required for those under 12.

23 minutes ago, Highlander said:

 The other bad point was when we went to have our tests for consecutive cruisers the lineup included both unvaccinated and vaccinated guests This was also pointed out by a few people in the line but the next week it was the same. They could easily have used the separate entrances to the Coral Theatre where the tests were being done or at least separate the time for testing between these groups.

The distinction between vaccinated and unvaccinated is largely becoming irrelevant with Omicron since the vaccinated appear to catch it just as easily as the unvaccinated.  I wouldn't look at that as too big of an issue.

26 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

 

I'm sure their hospitals are filling up with just the people that live on the island all ready.

It really depends on what the variant is.  A study out of the UK showed that omicron has a 70% less chance of hospitalization.  We shall see.

7 minutes ago, bajathree said:

That may be a real possibility as PR positivity rate has now exceeded 25%

https://newswep.com/puerto-rico-reaches-a-record-number-of-positivity-due-to-covid-19-at-25-9/

I hope that going forward decision makers will focus on hospitalizations instead of case numbers or positivity rates.  That would be a much better indication of whether a place should allow visitors.

29 minutes ago, davekathy said:

No kidding. I never said or even suggested that the vaccinations are 100%. At least 100% vaccinated would make it more of a level playing field. I realize my opinion isn't very popular and unrealistic. How I feel. I guess I'm selfish. We are vaccinated and have had our booster shots along with our flu shots. And we don't live in a bubble. 

can you please explain what you mean by that?  I am not getting your point.

9 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

Thank you OP for your analysis and taking the time to post.

I appreciate your observations.

It seems to me that it is all about the $, the product quality is not important.

Since the cruise lines do see those cruising in these time as being cruise addicted (obedient consumers), it is logical that the cruise lines exploit them, well knowing they can get away with it.

 

I have not cruised since 2018 because of the high price and product deterioration amongst other reasons, and I most certainly will not be cruising again any time soon. I am monitoring the boards for elder friends who have a cruise in February. They are very nervous, and rightly so.

 

Being trapped in a cabin is beyond awful. I most certainly would rather be trapped on land where services and travel options are close by, hence land trips are in my future. 

 

At this point, travel is a purchase of the brain, not emotion - it is a cost benefit analysis.

 

 

What specifically are these elderly friends nervous about?

2 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

No I do not think they are the only ones, but they can certainly do so just as I can potentially.  I simply believe in the enclosed environment of a ship, all must be vaccinated. My employer requires all of us to be vaccinated in order to come to our office, they have also reopened the on site daycare center, to only kids that have been vaccinated, I support this 100%.  Does it exclude some, sure it does, but I believe it is the prudent thing to do.  Just like I won’t change any minds here, not that I care to, I feel how I feel and am perfectly fine with that.

It's fine to feel the way you feel, but without a more logical case as to why unvaccinated children are dangerous to the ship environment there is no reason to forbid them.  

1 minute ago, LGW59 said:

Well not the old lady down the street, just the old man.  Vax em all up or keep them off the ship, no matter the age or the reason, stay home and if your ball rolls into my yard, you can retrieve it if you show your vaccine card.

Serious question: why?  You think that unvaccinated kids age 5-11 are the only ones bringing covid onto ships?

7 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Of course you can't just cancel them. I just not sure this is the time to cater to them. From what I understand Disney had no problem saying vaccinate your kids or they don't come. Families are their business. They will survive I'm sure. Somehow RCI doing the same would be their death knell?

There were a lot of very angry families posting on Facebook when Disney made that policy switch, and Royal may have picked up the business of the families with unvaccinated kids.  A fairly small minority of kids 5-11 are vaccinated and Royal would lose all that family business.  Disney may reverse at some point; heck, Celebrity reversed.

6 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

If the kids are not vaccinated keep them the hell off the ship, otherwise welcome aboard 

It won't make a bit of difference since vaccinated and boosted adults easily catch and spread Omicron covid.

My point: everyone keeps saying "oh, if Royal only does _________ then no one onboard will get covid".  Everything suggested, from masks to lower capacity to only vaccinated allowed to sail, will not stop the spread of covid.  Royal is doing everything that they reasonably can and we all need to approach cruising with the concept that it is not Royal's job to keep us "safe" (oh how I have come to loathe that word).  It is our job to understand that Omicron is super infectious and that if you engage in normal life at all you have a chance to get it, whether that be in normal life or on a ship.  Then proceed accordingly based on your risk profile should you catch covid.

As for me, I'd go on a ship tomorrow if I could book one!

I've read all the replies to this thread and I am wondering what RC really could have done in this situation.

Omicron is so incredibly infectious.  The science is that typical cloth masks are not going to prevent transmission.  Spacing does not work either because covid is an aerosol that suspends in the air and can certainly go farther than six feet.  For those of you saying everyone should be vaccinated, well, I know many people vaccinated and boosted who currently have covid.  RC is in a no win situation here.  None of these things would prevent covid transmission.  Omicron is just that infectious and easily spread.

Instead, it's time to everyone to realize the covid is very infectious and that you assume that risk when you get on the ship.  If you are vaccinated you have very low risk of hospitalization or death, and we all just have to understand that this is the new normal we live in.  It's just impossible to keep it off the ship and keep it from spreading, and I don't blame RC for trying to carry as many passengers as possible now to make up for the months when cruises were not allowed.

10 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Because those who are not vaxxed stand the chance of having more severe sickness which could overwhelm the ships medical facilities, cause more medevacs, cause ports to reject a ship, or cause an early termination of a cruise.

 

If you choose to not be vaxxed that is fine. Just stay off a ship where your decision has the potential to affect the vacation of a few thousand other people.

 

 

An unvaccinated kid 5-11 has much less chance of being seriously ill than a vaccinated person over 70, but we don't ban the elderly on cruise ships.  

On 12/24/2021 at 6:30 AM, jerseygirl3 said:

I love the spin he put on vaccination for 5-11 year olds. Instead of mandating that they be vaccinated, he states "more and more 5-11 years olds are being vaccinated". Why isnt it mandated, just like the 12 and over? 

Because of the other thing he said which is that 98% of those. positive for covid are fully vaccinated.  Requiring kids to be vaccinated is not going to stop covid when the vast majority of those contracting it are vaccinated.  This is just a really infectious variant.  Parents now have less incentive to vaccinate kids when we see that it doesn't prevent an infection that is super mild, and thus they would lose out on all that family revenue.

I know several people who have been diagnosed with Covid in the last few days, all fully vaccinated and boosted.  It is likely Omicron because all symptoms are mild and consist of runny nose and fatigue.

Unless you are so medically fragile that you probably should not cruise at all, live your life.  The reality is that almost everyone is going to get covid as vaccines do not prevent it, but as long as you're not severely ill or dead all is well.  Covid is never going away and this pandemic will end only when enough of us decide that we have to live with the virus.

I would think that Royal will not require this until at least 4/1, since it has already announced health protocols through 3/31/22 for children in that age range.

18 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Unpopular opinion here but I wish to help myself on the buffet. Only I can serve myself the tiny portions of foods that I prefer. Also, I do not like my food placed on top of other food that is already on my plate which is what the serving crew does.......every single time. The crew are in a rush so they do not take the time to be careful when placing food on the plate. I understand but I still do not have to like it. Let me serve myself. Supply those oversized disposable gloves at every buffet station and ENFORCE the use of the gloves like buffets on land have resorted to.

100% agree.  I take smaller portions and I like to be more specific about what I take.  Just give everyone the disposable gloves and have them wear masks while serving.  I don't see how the crew serving would be any safer than that.

23 hours ago, pyrateslife4me84 said:

This idea that something family friendly WON’T mandate vaccines is completely backwards. They mandate vaccines BECAUSE they are family friendly and want kids safe. These cruise lines (and Disney World, for that matter) continue to mandate indoor masks to protect kids, who could not be vaccinated. They didn’t maintain indoor masking for careless adults. Now, we have a more effective tool for most children. 
 

Of course they will mandate vaccines. Given the aforementioned trouble kids have keeping masks on, this is how we keep the kids clubs safe. Vaccinate them. They quickly moved the mandate down to age 12 and will move it down further. You literally have the man in charge talking about moving toward 95% of passengers being vaccinated next year. That requires the mandate down to age 5. 
 

Anyone expecting differently is fooling themselves. 

Given how little serious impact covid infections have on kids in this age range, it is not about keeping kids safe.  If that were the case kids would have to have flu shots to cruise.  Vaccine mandates for ages 5-11 are about keeping more vulnerable adults on board safer and containing risks of outbreaks on the ship.

11 hours ago, jrapps said:

And for price comparison, it really depends what ship you are looking at. A week on an Oasis class ship is not that much different than a week on a Disney ship, definitely not 3x-4x cheaper.

For fun I just did a search on Disney and Royal cruises over the next three months and matched them up by length and embarkation port.  The Disney cruises were typically 2-4 times more expensive.  I couldn't find anything comparable.   There are several articles from this site explaining why Disney is so much more expensive than other lines, including RC. https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=2393

We can disagree, but I continue to maintain that it's a somewhat different crowd going on Disney vs. RC.

4 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

And Disney isn't??

RC and Disney are both family oriented but I would argue that they attract different demographics.  Disney cruises tend to be 3-4 times the price of an RC cruise.  At the upper income levels people are more likely to get kids vaccinated than the more regular folks who cruise on RC.  I really don't think that RC will mandate vaccines for those under 12 anytime soon, unless the islands themselves mandate them.  That would be a definite game changer.

Hasn't RC already announced that through 3/31, unvaccinated children under 12 may continue to follow the same protocols?  I don't see things changing before that.

I have a different take on it.  There are many families who are not particularly excited to vaccinate children so young since there is no long term safety data for such a new vaccine platform as mRNA, and many are concerned about risks of myocarditis and other issues.  RC has a real chance to get the business of those families by refusing to go along with the crowd.  Just cap unvaccinated kids at a certain percentage of the ship and mandate antigen testing every day or every other day of those unvaccinated kids and there should be almost no issues. Those 12 and up would continue to be fully vaccinated so the most vulnerable on the ship would be protected.  RC could even run cruises that require 100% vaccinations and other cruises that do not.  There is a way to segment the market.

Then, when a vaccine such as the one being currently tested by Novovax is available, which uses an established vaccine platform that has been in use almost 40 years, RC can require everyone to be vaccinated.  But for now many families feel that this vaccine is too unvetted to use, and they are the majority if you believe opinion polls.