Mekka

I seems to me that HAL still offers very good value, but at a different level of quality (lower). The only exception might be the Neptune Suites, which are at a rather high price point relative to the quality and service provided on the ship. I suppose some people simply want a very large cabin, but it always surprises me that people will pay such a high daily rate when they have attractive options on luxury lines. For the cheaper cabins, HAL seems quite competitive on pricing as long as you aren't hung up on what they were like in the past. Unfortunately, HAL may be stuck with their reputation for quite some time. They have become a mass market line and will have trouble charging any kind of a price premium for the foreseeable future.

I'm not so sure I would be quick to recommend HAL to the OP. I agree with the earlier comments that the majority of HAL passengers are very nice people. My wife and I are younger than the OP and we are one cruise short of 5 stars. Like the OP, we are very active people (we both run marathons) and we are not looking for a quiet and relaxing time on a cruise. We prefer longer cruises on the smaller ships and this generally puts us on cruises with an older demographic. I have come to accept this as part of the deal in cruising HAL, but there are some consequences that I'm not sure are being communicated in the replies to the original question.

The OP said he/she likes rock and roll. So do I, but on HAL you can forget about it, unless you're looking for something out of the 1950's. We also enjoy ballroom dancing and HAL is usually decent for that. But for the most part, the music is along the lines of New York, New York and Mack the Knife.

The demographic composition shows up in other ways as well. Things happen slowly on HAL. It's not unusual to be walking down a corridor behind a rather slow moving couple. You may find yourself in line for coffee behind people who take quite a bit of time to prepare their favorite beverage or chat up the staff. You may find that the simplest task on an excursion, like stopping for a bathroom break, takes quite a bit of time. If you're the type of person who can go with the flow and stay mellow, then HAL may work well for you. Otherwise, it can be frustrating.

On balance, HAL works for us, but we are very independent and take responsibility for our own entertainment on board. We've given up on HAL excursions, as the pace is excruciatingly slow. I wouldn't necessarily recommend HAL to the OP.

I have a Ph.D. In economics and teach these things for a living. If I had a dollar for every student who has made this mistake in confusing fixed and variable costs, I'd be quite wealthy. Fully loaded costs are used for some types of decisions, but not the kind in this discussion. When HAL is designing their new ship, they are central to the plan. When they are setting the price for a cabin, they are ignored.

Perhaps things would be more clear if you look at it from a different angle. Why do you think all the cruise lines charge a premium for singles? Is it a conspiracy? Are they trying to lose money on purpose? There is an obvious answer. I'm sorry it means some of you will pay a higher price.

I'm done with the economics lesson of the day. I wish you all fair seas and following winds.

I'm referring to the fully loaded food cost which is the total cost of the meal including food, prep, service, and cleanup. I should have been more specific. If you just look at the food part of the equation, the overall 2014 average is $15.15 per pax per day. That's weighted toward the mainstream lines because they have more berths in the total calculation.

 

The mainstream (also called mass market - but not by the industry) lines are: Carnival, Costa, Disney**, MSC, NCL, and RCI. (Don't argue. I got this straight from CLIA. ;) ) When you're looking at the food costs, these lines have more more passengers in the equation and wind up providing more of the overall weighting.

 

**- I was surprised to see Disney here, but I'm just reporting.

It is incorrect to look at "fully loaded" costs. You are confusing fixed vs. variable costs. The only relevant costs to this discussion are those which vary with type of passenger. HAL doesn't save any food prep costs, server costs, etc. when they have solos on board. These costs are fixed. They will have the same crew costs whether or not you travel alone. For the same reason, it is irrelevant to discuss fuel costs, ship maintenance, or capital costs in this context.

Perhaps if Brucemuzz is lurking out there he can shed some light on this. I suspect he would confirm that solo passengers are not very attractive to the cruise lines.

You might be missing the point. I have no basis to judge whether or not a solo cruiser is more or less likely to buy an excursion, drink, gamble, buy photos, or shop in the stores. But the solo would have to spend twice as much as the individuals sharing a cabin for HAL to break even on the deal. That seems unlikely to me. HAL charges singles more for the same reason they charge more for the Neptune suites or to cruise on the Prinsendam. It's supply and demand and they are simply trying to make a profit.

HAL is in business to make a profit. The fact is that solo cruisers aren't very profitable for them, even with a 100% premium. It's not a question of being more or less thrifty. Solos take up cabin space that would otherwise create the possibility of 2 people buying excursions, gambling in the casino, buying drinks, etc. This isn't a moral or ethical issue. Solo passengers are simply not as attractive to the cruise lines as everyone else. You shouldn't take it personally or feel discriminated against. HAL is simply responding to the economic incentives that exist in their industry.

Can anyone recommend a good website for starting a blog or online site for organizing photos and comments from trips? I travel a lot (over 125 countries so far) and have thousands of photos from my trips. I'd like to organize them into some sort of format with only the best 20 or 30 from each trip along with some brief commentary. I'm comfortable with technology but don't want to invest an inordinate amount of time learning a complex program. Do you have any suggestions?

Ever since I switched to using only a carry-on bag for cruising, I usually have around 20-25 lbs. of stuff, depending on the destination climate. I also carry a small backpack with my electronics & a few personal items.

Switching to a carry-on strategy has worked very well for me and it has created much more ease in packing. I even used to be able to fit my tuxedo into my old TravelPro rolling carry-on bag. That suitcase had tremendous capacity for a bag that met the "45 inch" rule that most airlines use. Most airlines have a carry-on weight limit as well, but it has only come up once for me, and that was over 10 years ago. As long as the size meets their requirements, they don't seem to weigh the carry-on bags very often, and when they do, they generally let it slide if you are over.

My new TravelPro just won't hold as much and has provided an excuse to leave the tux at home. I realized a long time ago that you really don't need all that much on a cruise, especially after you start getting free laundry (or buy a package). Obviously, this strategy doesn't work for people who love dressing in different outfits every night. I sat next to a woman on a 2 week cruise who told me that she had brought 16 different outfits because she wanted to be able to choose something new every day. I didn't have the heart to tell her that I brought all my things in one small bag.

I cruise quite a bit and have a set of clothes I use exclusively for cruising. They are layers of things that can be combined in any combination. I'm on my third dark blue travel blazer from Travelsmith (washable, no wrinkle, works in hot climates). It takes me about 10 minutes to pack or unpack and I carry my stuff on and off the ship easily. It would be hard for me to go back to dragging around heavy suitcases.

When I took my first SilverSea cruise, I was surprised when I first walked on the ship and was greeted by name by the Cruise Director (Fernando- who is famous for this). I was escorted by a crew member to my cabin, where my Butler was waiting with a cold bottle of champagne. He invited me to relax while he unpacked my bags. (I let him do it out of curiosity, even though I prefer to do it myself) I went to lunch, where I was greeted by name by the Maitre' D. and had a fabulous meal. At that point, I realized I had entered a different world. By the way--I was staying in a basic oceanview cabin. These sorts of experiences happen all day long. HAL's crew is good and they try hard to please, but they simply aren't staffed to provide this kind of treatment. It has to be experienced. Simply stating that the food and service are better doesn't convey the difference. A lot more is included in your fare and when you price it out, the difference isn't as big as you might think. Go for it- you won't be sorry.

My advice would be to go upscale for a final fling. I've cruised more on HAL than any other line and I always enjoy myself. But I have to admit, the premium lines are much, much nicer. (I'm getting on a Crystal cruise next week) The only reason to choose HAL would be to save a few bucks. I would suggest going further upscale than Oceania. They're quite nice, but can't compare to Seabourn, Silversea or Crystal. Frankly, the expensive cabins on HAL (like the Neptune suites) are a much worse deal than the entry level cabins on the luxury lines. They really spoil you and it's hard to go back down to HAL afterwards. HAL simply can't compare for quality- whether it's food or service.

At risk of sounding a bit "un-PC", I would warn you that the age demographic on HAL does have implications for the nature of your upcoming cruise. As to whether or not it will make your trip less enjoyable, that's really up to you. But there will be a lot of elderly people and their presence does have implications for your experience.

As for my background, I'm in my 50's and extremely active. I run marathons and am an avid outdoorsman. I have cruised extensively on HAL (will become a 5 star Mariner on my next cruise) and have decided that having a lot of older and slower people on board is not a deal killer. However, I am very independent and don't rely on HAL for a constant stream of stimulating activities. I've cruised quite a bit on other lines as well, and if you are looking for a more active on board experience, you may be disappointed.

Here are some things to keep in mind:

HAL offers very few truly active excursions. Their excursions are targeted at people who are older and not very active. For example, if they have a hiking excursion, it might go 1 or 2 miles and at a very, very slow pace. Many of HAL's passengers sign up for active tours and then can barely keep up. They end up cutting short the tour or moving at a glacial pace. For someone who is relatively fit, this can be disappointing. When they offer active excursions, they often get canceled for lack of participation. I can't even count how many times I have received a letter the night before arriving at a port that cancels the excursion I signed up for. I've learned not to rely on HAL any more than necessary for active excursions. If you are looking for group bus rides and slow moving tours, they are fine. If you want something active, you are going to be disappointed. By the way, the Alaska cruises are somewhat better at active tours, but all of this is relative.

You mentioned that you enjoyed listening to music. There is plenty of music available, but it is also targeted at older people. My wife and I enjoy ballroom dancing, and HAL is pretty good for that. But when I listen to music, I enjoy modern and faster tempo music. HAL's idea of rock and roll is Bill Hailey and the Comets. Be prepared for lots of New York, New York and Mack the Knife. If you like that sort of thing, great. But don't hold your breath for anything produced in the last 25 years. The evening shows are Las Vegas/Broadway circa 1960. You might be reminded of your high school musical.

You mentioned that you want to relax, and HAL is great for that. The age demographic on HAL makes things happen slowly-- everything from walking down the hall to going through the line at the Lido. If you are a patient person and not in a hurry for anything, you may not even notice. But you may be surprised at how long it can take some people to get a cup of coffee or choose their dessert at the cafeteria. There have been a few times when I have felt that I have been transported into a retirement home.

So why do I cruise HAL? They have very good itineraries and offer good value. I have gotten used to being around the older folks. It's really up to you to decide if sharing your experience with a lot of elderly people is going to bother you.

The HAL excursion is 5 days:

Day 1- fly from Lima to the Galapagos. Visit Mosquera Islet & go snorkeling.

Day 2- South Plaza Island & Santa Fe Island wildlife viewing

Day 3- San Cristobal Island

Day 4- Cerro Colorado & Tortoise Breeding Station. Fly to mainland in evening.

Day 5- Drive to Manta to join the ship.

The first 3 nights are on the Galapagos Legend. The last night is a hotel.

THANKS. We looked at the Celebrity cruise, but we live in San Diego and the HAL cruise is a convenient round trip for us. Silversea now has an expedition ship stationed in the Galapagos, but the reviews so far have been quite poor.

Has anyone out there taken the HAL Galapagos excursion?

We are looking at the HAL Incan Empires cruise next year as a way to visit the Galapagos. We are trying to decide between a land-based trip (no cruise), using the HAL excursion, or putting together our own trip in the time between the port stops in Lima and Manta (6 days).

The HAL excursion is quite expensive (about $4,800), but has the usual advantages of convenience and security. The other options are no cheaper, but I suspect will offer a superior experience in the Galapagos.

Any feedback you can provide would be very helpful. Thank you in advance.

I totally agree with the observation that only you can decide if a Neptune Suite is worth the money.

However, my experience has been that the suites on Holland America are one of the worst values in cruising. I've spent quite a bit of time on HAL (a few days short of 5 stars at this point) and I've stayed in every kind of room but a penthouse. The suites are nice and give you lots of space, but you are still on HAL and are paying a very high price for a mass market experience.

The cost cutting and quality cutbacks on HAL are well documented on this site. The problem with a suite is that as soon as you step outside your cabin, you are basically just like everybody else. Yes, there are some perks, but realistically they are fairly minimal and you are paying a huge premium to get them. If you are lucky enough to snag a cheap upsell, then the value proposition is better, but you can never count on that.

Over the last 3 years, we have been moving away from HAL and towards the luxury lines, particularly Silversea and Crystal. If you shop around a bit, you can sail with them for roughly the price of a Neptune Suite and the quality is much, much higher. The little perks of HAL's suites are dwarfed by the consistently superior service, food and atmosphere on the ship. You will have a smaller cabin, but even an entry level cabin on Silversea (which they call a "suite") is about 50% bigger than HAL's basic cabin and is quite comfortable. I suppose that if you spend most of your time in your cabin on HAL, the bigger cabin is nice, but I can't see giving up all the advantages of the luxury lines to get that.

I recommend that you try a luxury line if you want to splurge. I'll warn you, it's hard to go back to HAL. When you add up all the things that are included (such as tips and drinks), it might even be cheaper than a Neptune Suite.

Only you can decide if a Neptune Suite is worth it. All cruise prices are set by supply and demand, so there are obviously people who are willing to pay the Neptune Suite price. I wonder how many of them have tried something else. It has been hard for us to give up our advanced status in HAL's loyalty program to start over in other cruise lines, but overall, I'd say it has been well worth it. You might be amazed at how much nicer the experience of a luxury line can be.

I'm not sure I would go that far, but it certainly helps to have realistic expectations. HAL has evolved from a premium and somewhat luxurious brand to just another mass market line. The main difference is that their ships are smaller and old. The passengers aren't particularly young either.

Welcome back to HAL and I hope you have a wonderful cruise. Unfortunately, you may find that there have been many changes since your last cruise and that most of them are for the worse. The responses to your question thus far seem to sugar coat what's happening at HAL (and all mass market cruise lines). The last five years have seen unprecedented cost cutting and the predictable impact on quality.

The one big positive change is price. You may have paid a lot more for your cruises in the past. You can get some very low cost cruises today. This has opened the market to literally millions of new cruisers (15 million+ per year).

But you get what you pay for and some of your memories of HAL may not be realistic any more. HAL used to be a premium cruise line. They have consistently cut their service and quality during the last five years in order to remain competitive on price. For example, a Hotel Manager recently told me that his food budget per day is exactly the same as it was five years ago, but that food prices have risen tremendously over that same period. Year by year, they keep cutting back on the quality of the food they purchase and it really shows. I have cruised consistently on HAL for the last 5 years and the changes may seem more gradual to people like me who cruise frequently. The cumulative impact of five years of cuts could be jarring to you.

The same thing is happening to service. HAL still has the same wonderful, friendly and hard working crew. But they are being asked to do much more now. They clean more rooms, wait on more tables and are always in a hurry. We used to love chatting with the crew and seeing pictures of their families. It still happens, but not so often. They are stressed out and really busy. They do their best, but service can be slow. I never blame them personally. They are working in a system that has no slack time for idle chatting. Your room will still get cleaned and your food will show up eventually, but it's not like it was 5 years ago.

Your attitude and expectations will play the biggest role in determining how much fun you have. Keep an open mind and "glass half full" attitude and you'll still find HAL to be a good experience. It's just not the same experience you might remember.

I believe the most important aspect of dealing with cabin problems is managing your own attitude. Do not let it ruin your cruise (and that's not always so easy to avoid).

HAL ships are old. We like the Prinsendam, R & S classes. Unfortunately, these ships are 20+ years old and are nearing the end of their service lives. HAL is trying to get rid of them (although my understanding is they plan to keep Prinsendam for 5 more years).

In the meantime, you have to either avoid those ships or roll the dice and hope for a decent cabin. Most of the cabins are fine, but we've been burned a couple of times. If you are willing to be persistent, you'll probably end up with OBC, wine or strawberries, but please don't harbor the delusion that Stein Kruse is losing any sleep over your problem. The main thing is to avoid obsessing over a toilet that won't flush, a shower that is lukewarm or a cabin with faulty HVAC. We've had all three and I try hard to deal with it without getting mad or letting it ruin my cruise. At the end of the day, it's up to you (not HAL) to determine how much it's going to bother you. Their approach is to solve the easy problems and to string you along on the hard ones. Eventually, you'll get off the ship and it will be someone else's issue.

These ships (and the quality of HAL in general) are going downhill. At some point, I'll give up on them (and HAL too perhaps), but for now they are still good enough. There are plenty of shiny new ships out there to choose from and we've started experimenting with other lines. We still come back to HAL, but it's getting closer to the point where we write them off.

I'm getting on the Maasdam on March 2 for the Carnaval/Amazon trip and these reports aren't very encouraging, but I'm keeping an open mind. I just got off the Statendam Sea of Cortez trip in December and managed to have a terrific cruise, despite slow service, mediocre food, and some of the same administrative issues showing up on the recent Maasdam reviews. The ports and excursions were excellent and I was with friends and family that made for a great trip.

I've learned to be somewhat careful in interpreting ship reviews (either positive or negative) based on management and service conditions. I took a South America cruise on the Rotterdam in Fall, 2011 and encountered the worst morale problems I've ever seen on a ship. The service was pretty awful and the attitude of the staff (which is usually excellent) was surly and unhelpful. I came away with a terrible opinion of the Rotterdam. Nonetheless, with significant trepidation I found myself back on the Rotterdam 6 months later for a Baltic cruise. I was shocked at the change on board. Service and food were great, people were friendly again and it was like a totally different ship. The previous problems were not inherent to the Rotterdam. It was coming from the top and a few changes of the Officers made a world of difference. I suspect it's the same thing with the Maasdam (and frankly, the Statendam right now). No doubt the constant cost cutting is playing a role, but I don't think the situation on the Maasdam or Statendam is hopeless. By the way, I was sorry to see the additional efforts to sell the Statendam. Despite their problems, I really like the R & S class ships.

Have you spoken to Holland America to be sure the Galapagos trip will be running? The last time I checked, they had discontinued it. If you have any new information, I would be quite interested to hear it.

Can you tell me the current levels of OBC for on board reservations and the welcome back promotions?

Thank you

I would appreciate some advice about the possibility of switching from Holland America to Celebrity. My wife and I are active cruisers and have nearly 500 days on Holland America (plus more on other lines).

Holland America is going through the same cost cutting process as everyone else and it has really begun to get serious. Food, service, crowding, etc. are greatly diminished from what they used to be. We've cruised on some very high end lines, but have used Holland because of their (formerly) good value proposition. I'm starting to look around and I've heard some positive things about Celebrity. I've also read some of the comments on this board about Celebrity going downhill fast, so I realize they aren't perfect either.

How would you compare the two lines? We are low maintenance cruisers. We work out in the gym every day-- how crowded is it? Holland usually isn't too bad. We hate to wait to use equipment.

I've heard Celebrity has better food and entertainment- is that true?

We also are put off by the lack of active excursions on Holland. We like to do very active tours that involve exercise and excitement. That's not usually possible on Holland excursions. Is Celebrity any better?

I thank you in advance for your help.

I agree with previous post- if you want to eat in the Dining Room, very little formal wear is needed. The dress code has slipped to a very minimal level. Just bring something halfway decent and you'll be fine. Lots of people on your cruise will be doing the same thing. They barely enforce anything these days and I wouldn't be surprised if they do away with formal nights entirely in the future.

And by the way-- you don't always get the same food in the Lido. They often cheap out in the cafeteria, such as substituting bay shrimp for "jumbo" shrimp (which aren't all that jumbo anymore). If you want the lobster, you may have to eat in the MDR, or be a hermit in your cabin with room service.

I've always wondered why Holland America uses the current floorplan for Ocean View cabins. Putting the window directly above the bed greatly diminishes the utility of the window. Other cruise lines (as well as the Veranda cabins on HAL) use a much better design. The sitting area is in front of the window and makes it possible to enjoy the view without climbing on the bed. It would seem possible for HAL to re-arrange the furniture without a major investment.

Is there a reason for their current layout? If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd suggest that HAL wants to make the Veranda cabins look more attractive in comparison as a way to encourage passengers to spend more money. Perhaps there is a valid reason for the current placement of the bed, but it escapes me. Can anyone shed light on this question?

My wife and I have done two portions of the World Cruise on Silver Whisper and were rather dismayed at some of the sanitation problems we observed. Most recently, we did the 54 day segment from Singapore to Fort Lauderdale. While the cruise was very enjoyable, it was marred by a very large number of sick passengers (and crew as well, including the Captain). I'm convinced this was worsened by some very poor sanitation policies on board.

Cruise ships are notorious breeding grounds for the spread of illnesses and our only defense as passengers is constant vigilance via hand sanitizing and washing. Unfortunately, most passengers did not practice good sanitation and Silverseas did very little to combat this problem. They need to be much more proactive in promoting cleanliness on board. We have cruised with other lines that seem more aggressive in this area.

There are hand sanitizer stations spread throughout the ship, but they are generally "discreetly located" and ignored by passengers. For example, there is a hand sanitizer station at the entrance of the main dining room. It's hardly ever used. While waiting 10 minutes for my wife to arrive at dinner, I watched how many passengers bothered to clean their hands. Very few did it--- far less than 5%. It's worse at the buffet, where we are forced to share utensils with others who simply don't bother to keep their hands clean. No wonder so many of the passengers on this voyage ended up with the same cold/noro/whatever it was.

Some cruise lines station a "greeter" at the entrance of the dining area who holds a container of sanitizer and basically forces everyone to start out with clean hands. At the very least, Silversea should put sanitizing stations directly in the path of people entering the dining areas. At least they would have to more consciously decide to ignore it.

The hosted events with a greeting line is a charming practice and I like shaking hands with the Captain and other officers. But the next step is the distribution of finger foods in the theater. You couldn't design a better way to spread germs if you tried. Other cruise lines have abandoned the handshaking ritual for this reason.

These cruises are fabulous and it's a real shame to have them screwed up with illnesses that could be much better minimized through improved policies. I hope other passengers will encourage Silverseas to make progress in this area.