Amazon Sale - Travel Surge Protector

Just wondering, why do you even need a surge protector on the ship? The ship has 2 to 4 outlets. 2 at 110 and 2 at 240 volts. A simple adapter will be used for the 240 volt plugs to power your iPhone, iPad or other smart phones etc. Also, charging camera batteries. Some hair dryers work on both voltages also, which I have one. So why do you need a surge protector?

Just wondering, why do you even need a surge protector on the ship? The ship has 2 to 4 outlets. 2 at 110 and 2 at 240 volts. A simple adapter will be used for the 240 volt plugs to power your iPhone, iPad or other smart phones etc. Also, charging camera batteries. Some hair dryers work on both voltages also, which I have one. So why do you need a surge protector?

I agree, I don't think a surge protector is necessary on the ship. It's just very hard to find what I want without the surge protection built in.

Just wondering, why do you even need a surge protector on the ship? The ship has 2 to 4 outlets. 2 at 110 and 2 at 240 volts. A simple adapter will be used for the 240 volt plugs to power your iPhone, iPad or other smart phones etc. Also, charging camera batteries. Some hair dryers work on both voltages also, which I have one. So why do you need a surge protector?

Some folks prefer not to bring the individual "wall warts" that come as chargers for their electronics, but prefer to have a multi-USB charger so they only need to bring one "block" and multiple cords. While the individual chargers do not have surge protection, most of the multi-USB units have it as standard.

Also, most people, rightly so, are worried about protecting their electronics from power surges, which is a valid concern when travelling ashore, but not onboard a ship.

This may explain it a little better.

http://www.omao.noaa.gov/noaafleetinspection/safety_alerts/Surge%20Suppressors%20USCG%20Safety%20Alert%20April%202013.pdf

After reading the above I am wondering if this is an issue that applies to USB only devices at all. There is no mention of USB in the document. I'm also wondering if this applies to *all* surge protection devices or just "inexpensive and older" devices. I'm sure I'm missing something, so feel free to enlighten me.

I agree, the corded models will satisfy my needs, and if my surgury on the Belkin goes badly, I may have to go that way. The only reason I hesitate is that sometimes they see a cord in the x-ray and automatically hold the suitcase in security.

Bob, please report how this goes. If it goes well, I may see if Kurt can do it also. It is nice to have a few extra plug in's and USB ports.

Bob, please report how this goes. If it goes well, I may see if Kurt can do it also. It is nice to have a few extra plug in's and USB ports.

I have an old model, before they added the 2.1A USB ports. That will be my guinea pig this weekend. Does not look like they made the enclosure easy to open.

After reading the above I am wondering if this is an issue that applies to USB only devices at all. There is no mention of USB in the document. I'm also wondering if this applies to *all* surge protection devices or just "inexpensive and older" devices. I'm sure I'm missing something, so feel free to enlighten me.

The problem comes with the design of consumer surge protectors in general, so it applies to USB as well as power outlets. A consumer surge protector works by placing a semi-conductor between the hot and neutral wires to connect to the ground wire. These semi-conductors are only designed to pass current when the voltage across them exceeds the "clamping" voltage (the voltage that the device is designed to protect at, usually something like 300v). This works just fine on shore, since the ground wire is "grounded" into the earth, and there can never be a higher voltage on the ground wire than on the other two wires. In other words, the semi-conductor cannot see a voltage in the opposite direction to what it is designed for.

Now we go onboard ships. Here the ground is not "earthed" to the ship's hull like to the earth on shore. This is to prevent electrolysis on the hull. The ground wire is run back to the neutral point of the generators, which will normally not see a voltage above zero. However, if a piece of equipment somewhere on the ship has an insulation failure to ground (like a light fixture filled with water), this can send power to the ground wire. This then changes the relative voltage between the ground wire and the two conducting wires (hot and neutral) in your surge suppressor, and the semi-conductor can see a positive voltage (much less than the clamping voltage) in the WRONG direction, which can cause the semi-conductor to heat up. These surge protection semi-conductors have a life expectancy to them, based on the voltage they see and the time they see it. So, a large voltage spike like a lightning strike will fail the semi-conductor in a fraction of a second, while a lower voltage (from the utility) over a longer time will be needed to have the semi-conductor fail. Reverse voltaging the semi-conductor will significantly reduce the life of the semi-conductor, and sometimes when these fail, they go into what is called "thermal runaway". This is where the failed semi-conductor does not draw enough current to trip the breaker, but does draw enough current through the high resistance of the failed unit to create a lot of heat, which can then melt the surge protector and start a fire.

Here is a post by another CC member, who is an EE and took the time to research this, and he posted his findings:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=48102515&postcount=10

Ships don't use surge protectors on their electronics, even the navigation and engine control computers and controllers. The same grounding design that makes surge protectors dangerous makes them not required, since the ground is insulated from the hull. There are marine surge protectors capable of being used on shipboard systems, but they require a lot more safety features like thermal trips and reverse voltage protection systems. These put them out of the price range of consumer electronics.

Thanks. Does this mean that if a surge protector allows you to reset after a surge it may be harmful when on a ship, and conversely, a surge protector that just dies after a surge might be safe?

Thanks. Does this mean that if a surge protector allows you to reset after a surge it may be harmful when on a ship, and conversely, a surge protector that just dies after a surge might be safe?

I would expect either to be dangerous on the ship because they are not designed for the reverse voltage that they may be exposed to. In other words, each might fail with with the fire problem.

I agree, I don't think a surge protector is necessary on the ship. It's just very hard to find what I want without the surge protection built in.

The USB chargers all have some kind of surge protection built in. It is required. Phone chargers, tablet chargers. You won't find any without protection built in.

Thanks. Does this mean that if a surge protector allows you to reset after a surge it may be harmful when on a ship, and conversely, a surge protector that just dies after a surge might be safe?

Generally, surge protectors don't offer a "reset". That would be the overcurrent circuit breaker. The semi-conductor (MOV) that provides surge (overvoltage) protection just dumps the power to ground as long as the voltage is too high. Many, like the Belkin, have a "protected" green LED that shows that the MOV is still working, and when it goes out, the MOV has failed. Cheaper ones don't have an LED, so you never know when the MOV has failed. A failed MOV won't protect your electronics from overvoltage anymore. As Bob says, either a "healthy" or a failed MOV does not like reverse voltage, and may enter thermal runaway.

The USB chargers all have some kind of surge protection built in. It is required. Phone chargers, tablet chargers. You won't find any without protection built in.

Actually, I have received information direct from the manufacturer of at least one multi-USB hub that one of their products does not have surge suppression. The Zilu 5-port USB charger is without surge suppression. I think what you are referring to is a type of "crow bar" protection such that when voltage gets too high on the input, it essentially shorts the output (5 v) to prevent excess voltage reaching the electronics. Surge protection shunts the input power to ground, and this is what is dangerous onboard. I just saw that HAL's new Koningsdam has USB ports in the cabins, and these will be non-surge protected.

OK, so I think we may be close to something I understand. If the act of protecting your devices from a surge, the device is turned into a crow bar, then that device is safe to use on the ship. Is that correct?

Actually, I have received information direct from the manufacturer of at least one multi-USB hub that one of their products does not have surge suppression. The Zilu 5-port USB charger is without surge suppression. I think what you are referring to is a type of "crow bar" protection such that when voltage gets too high on the input, it essentially shorts the output (5 v) to prevent excess voltage reaching the electronics. Surge protection shunts the input power to ground, and this is what is dangerous onboard. I just saw that HAL's new Koningsdam has USB ports in the cabins, and these will be non-surge protected.

That USB charger will have surge protection. You might be misunderstanding the manufacturer or they are misunderstanding you.

OK, so I think we may be close to something I understand. If the act of protecting your devices from a surge, the device is turned into a crow bar, then that device is safe to use on the ship. Is that correct?

Well, sort of. Things like the ubiquitous "wall wart" that comes with an Iphone as a charger (little white square thing), will have "voltage regulation" where it will shut off power output to the device being charged if the voltage gets too high (this is the "crowbar" isolator). Even though most surge protectors have clamping voltages around 300-500 volts, they are really designed to protect against voltages above 50k volts, like a lightning strike or a transformer failure. These surge protectors will generally shunt the power to ground, and maybe fail in the process, causing an overcurrent, which trips the breaker. The small wall warts that have "voltage regulation" may or may not have a sufficient physical barrier to protect the output from a multi-thousand volt input, so they are really not surge protectors.

So the question is, are the wall warts safe to use, and if so what's different in them than a multi USB device?

So the question is, are the wall warts safe to use, and if so what's different in them than a multi USB device?

Yes, the individual wall warts are safe to use. The difference is mainly in size, in that on a multi-port circuit board there is room to put a healthy sized MOV (they are not small, as they are designed to absorb heat).

That USB charger will have surge protection. You might be misunderstanding the manufacturer or they are misunderstanding you.

Funny, because they told me that this ONE product of theirs was not surge protected, while all other multi-USB port units they make are surge protected, so there would have to have been a real breakdown in communication.

I've also seen reviews of USB ports that the reviewer says, "its a nice unit, would be better if it had surge protection".