Holiday Troubles

[Sharon Temple]

Can't scan it. So here it is word for word.

December 30, 2004



Dear Carnival Guest:

We want to welcome you to Mobile for your New Year's Cruise aboard the fabulous Holiday.

We also want to provide you with some information about our itinerary. We experienced a technical problem with the ship's propulsion system that is impacting our cruising speed. This problem is only impacting our cruising speed and all other ship systems and hotel services are functioning normally.

Due to the reduced speed, we will need to revise our itinerary to be a Cruise-To-Nowhere.

We sincerely apologize for this situation. Carnival will provide you with a $100 per person credit to your Sail & Sign charge account. Please enjoy something special this cruise with our compliments.

We have a lot of great activities and entertainment planned for you during this New Year's Cruise. In addition, my officers, staff and crew will do everything possible to minimize this inconvenience and provide you with a great cruise experience.

Sincerely,



Capt. Salvatore Messina
M/S Holiday
Master



This was typed on Carnival letterhead. It was signed, but you can't possibly read the signature.

[neverenufcruising]

Maybe McGyver is on the Holiday.

It's amazing when you can do with a piece of gum and a paper clip.;)

[MyImagination]

[color=black]Sharon, thanks for sharing. WOW! If it were me I would be calling Carnival or/and my TA. If Carnival is saying that they were offering refunds, yet the flier you have makes no mention of it there is a problem.[/color]

[color=black]Have you tried calling them yet?[/color]

[GoinCruisin]

Call the Troubleshooter... ;)

Sounds like they may have given the newspaper a load of garbage and only informed a few of the passengers they could cancel. Maybe THAT is the reason only 5% cancelled... I'd be all over it. I'd send a nice letter, copying the newspaper articles, your letter and let them know that you will also be notifying the local Miami paper of the "real story".... If they out and out lied, that is just wrong.

[Sharon Temple]

I HAVE written CCL a very explicit letter. 3 pages long. My TA has a copy of this letter they gave us. I went by there yesterday and she actually got on the computer and Carnival was ready to book Joe Blow on the next cruise. She's pretty mad because she was on the phone with Carnival right up until the day we cruised to see what our cabin would be since we did "run of the ship". They said nothing to her. She feels CCL is being very secretive and dishonest. She and I are both working on it, and hopefully all other pax. Power in numbers.

I emailed the local Mobile tv station and told them about how they disembarked us because I feel they were in violation of fire codes. Haven't heard back. Maybe I should email them this letter. A little truth wouldn't hurt. I feel really bad for Mobile.

[CoachTerry14]

[quote name='Sharon Temple']
I emailed the local Mobile tv station and told them about how they disembarked us because I feel they were in violation of fire codes. Haven't heard back. Maybe I should email them this letter. A little truth wouldn't hurt. I feel really bad for Mobile.[/QUOTE]

Could you explain this? - I am very interested... Sorry to hear about your experience!

[shecat]

Did you contact television station wpmi? They will probably follow-up on it faster. http:\\[url]www.wpmi.com[/url] and the other station is http:\\[url]www.wkrg.com[/url]

[fldad23girlz]

...you don't suppose Carnival would shut down internet access for passengers if things were not going well on board do you??? Nawwwww...they wouldn't....never....:rolleyes:

[CINCYTRAVELER]

TA returned my call this afternoon and said as of today the Holiday was resuming normal itinerary. Hope he knows what he is talking about. I will be VERY disappointed to just cruise the Gulf.

[neverenufcruising]

I heard they duck taped a bunch of Evenrudes to the stern to get her going again.;)

[fldad23girlz]

[quote name='neverenufcruising']I heard they duck taped a bunch of Evenrudes to the stern to get her going again.;)[/QUOTE]
Good! I know how to work on them. I'll be sure and take my tool box when I go later this month.:D

[Cruise News Daily]

ptcruiser, you have the basics of the current situation correct. That is as we reported late Tuesday afternoon. It is a temporary fix, and a drydock is still going to be required. We are posting updates on the Cruise News Daily website as information becomes available.

Alan Wilson
Cruise News Daily

[Sharon Temple]

Host Terry,

I've been on many cruises, and when we disembarked it took forever because we did it by decks or color codes. It's the only logical way to disembark, though, to keep order.

CCL just wanted us off the ship. The day before, we were told that we could carry our luggage out with us if we wanted to, and we would go off by decks, and go off first. Then those who checked their luggage the night before would go off by decks. Of course, flights and those needing assistance would be first.

After letting off flights and assistance, the cd (?) announced for all passengers carrying their own luggage to disembark now. That was it. All at one time. So, the majority of the ship tried to get off at the same time. Then, when we were still sitting in hallways and stairwells with large pieces of luggage, they called for the rest of the ship to disembark. Then they came on the loudspeaker and told us to keep the hallways and stairwells free and clear. That was a good laugh. If there had been a fire, or if someone had had a heart attack or medical emergency, it would have been bad. That's what got me to thinking about fire codes. There were workers trying to navigate through pax. The elevator doors would open but pax couldn't get off.

I've never disembarked in this orderly fashion before. I think all cruises should do this. Ha ha.

[Sharon Temple]

Also, today I spoke with someone I found out here in Nashville who was on the Holiday with 3 others. 2 of them were first timers. She said they found out about the cruise to nowhere as they were pulling into the parking garage. But, her letter was exactly like mine, which I shared earlier with you. There was no mention of a refund. I am saying this because I printed out the article and was reading it. I think CCL has fed a bunch of bull to the media. I like how Gullikson, the CCL public relations manager, said "obviously the vast majority opted to go on this cruise." It was because we didn't know we had an option, and even if we did, the ship had our luggage. We're also out $40 for parking. Plus a list of other stuff.

You know, I am not a bitter type of person. I usually let stuff roll off of my back. I don't ever write letters complaining about things. I'm just not that type. But I can't seem to let this go. CCL has been very secretive and unfair about this. They are only out for the almighty dollar.

At this point, I won't ever sail CCL again. Which is sad because we've had some great cruises on Carnival.

The Celebration 2x
The Spirit 2x
The Pride 2x

oh, well.

[GoinCruisin]

I thought all Self Assist luggage folks got off at the same time anyway? :confused:

It's sad that it seems some people were informed and some weren't. Then again, I'm not sure how else they could have informed anyone other than upon entrance to the parking garage and entrance to the terminal... Really sucks, I'm not sure how any of this should have been or could have been handled, but feel for those that have had less than perfect vacations :(

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

[quote name='Sharon Temple']Also, today I spoke with someone I found out here in Nashville who was on the Holiday with 3 others. 2 of them were first timers. She said they found out about the cruise to nowhere as they were pulling into the parking garage. But, her letter was exactly like mine, which I shared earlier with you. There was no mention of a refund. I am saying this because I printed out the article and was reading it. I think CCL has fed a bunch of bull to the media. I like how Gullikson, the CCL public relations manager, said "obviously the vast majority opted to go on this cruise." It was because we didn't know we had an option, and even if we did, the ship had our luggage. We're also out $40 for parking. Plus a list of other stuff.

You know, I am not a bitter type of person. I usually let stuff roll off of my back. I don't ever write letters complaining about things. I'm just not that type. But I can't seem to let this go. CCL has been very secretive and unfair about this. They are only out for the almighty dollar.

At this point, I won't ever sail CCL again. Which is sad because we've had some great cruises on Carnival.

The Celebration 2x
The Spirit 2x
The Pride 2x

oh, well.[/QUOTE]
---------------------------------------------

[font=Arial Black](A different thread brought up the question of over-blown complaints and the issue with Holiday, and I posted this response. It seems worthwhile to add it here, as well):[/font]
[font=Arial Black][/font]


[i][b][size=3][color=magenta]To start:[/color][/size][/b][/i]

[color=royalblue][i][b]I have zero sympathy for the people who flood Cruise Critic's boards with those posts about "Cruise from Hell :mad:!! I'm outraged, furious, disappointed" .... and it turns out to be trivial whining.[/b][/i][/color]


[color=royalblue][i][b]"They didn't serve lobster!" Waaah. "The soda cards cost too much!" Boo hoo. "They didn't put up enough Christmas decorations!!" Whimper. [/b][/i]
[/color]

[color=royalblue][i][b]Those posts never seem to be written calmly or intelligently, they ignore the other side of the story, and they don't suggest any rational or useful solutions. Usually it's just the predictable gimme, gimme stuff .... "The comedian wasn't funny! :( Little Johnny couldn't get his favorite brand of ice cream at 2 in the morning, AND the casino bartender cut me off just for a little swearing. Plus he was rude about it! How much compensation should I get?"[/b][/i][/color]


[color=royalblue][i][b]That slop is just a waste of message board space.[/b][/i][/color]


[size=3][color=magenta][i][b]To continue:[/b][/i][/color][/size]


[color=royalblue][i][b]It's completely reasonable to expect that port calls can be canceled for weather, sudden mechanical problems, or any unexpected emergencies. The contracts say it, experience proves it, and logic supports it.[/b][/i][/color]


[color=royalblue][i][b]Too many first-time cruisers plunk down their deposits without doing ANY homework. They mistakenly assume they understand the rules, and instantly get surly and nasty when they turn out to be wrong. Instead of searching for ways to ease the problem, they look to blame someone -- and it's always someone else.[/b][/i]

[i][b][color=magenta][/color][/b][/i]
[i][b][color=magenta][size=3]But with all of that understood, the fact is [/size]...[/color] this Holiday fiasco is a different kind of animal. [/b][/i][/color]


[color=royalblue][i][b]I simply don't believe the "mechanical failure" was anything sudden. Carnival has had trouble with that ship before. Carnival doesn't have a terrific maintenace history, and has an even worse record of customer service when its older ships start breaking down.[/b][/i][/color]


[color=royalblue][i][b]Reality: The cruise line SHOULD provide a fully working ship, or should compensate passengers for failing to. They didn't miss Cozumel because of rough waves, an approaching storm or anything like that -- this was a maintenance problem.[color=green][u] It[/u][/color] [color=green][u]was Carnival's job to get it right. Carnival failed. [/u][/color][/b][/i][/color]


[color=royalblue][i][b]Carnival demands its passengers pay the full fare in their contract before they set foot on the ship, and then requires them to settle their onboard credit before they leave (Just try telling a purser "Sorry, sudden technical malfunction. I lost my job last week, so my account went overdrawn Tuesday. Guess I can't pay you til April" or "Oops, I forgot to deposit some checks. Sorry. You'll have to take an IOU.") [/b][/i][/color]


[color=royalblue][i][b][color=olive]Carnival, a multi-multi-multi-million dollar corporation, is responsible here. Nobody else[/color]. [/b][/i][/color]
[color=royalblue][i][b]But instead of eating a small loss and doing the 'right' thing, the company cheaped out. [/b][/i][/color]


[color=royalblue][i][b]On another thread is a transcription of the note that Carnival distributed to passengers before the 'Cruise to Nowhere.' If that note has been transcribed accurately, it shows Carnival did NOT make passengers aware of a refund offer before sailing .... and at the VERY least, the cruise line owed them that. This sort of double-dealing is truly unacceptable.[/b][/i][/color]

[color=royalblue][b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=3][color=darkorchid][/color][/size][/font][/b][/color]
[color=royalblue][b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=3][color=darkorchid]So if Carnival takes an enormous public relations kick because of this, it has [u]nobody[/u] to blame but itself.[/color][/size][/font][/b][/color]


[color=royalblue][i][b]Remember, folks, there's nothing new here.... [/b][/i][/color]

[color=royalblue][i][b]Just think: A clunky old ship that's overdue for retirement starts to break down. The response from Carnie: The front-line staff puts out a cheesy, cheaper-than-Scrooge 'offer' of compensation; the top execs vanish off the radar; and the spokeswoman-flack issues a happy-face 'Oh, everything's just fine' line. [/b][/i][/color]

[color=royalblue][i][b]Meanwhile a ton of unhappy passengers complain the company gave them either no information, bum information, or completely contradictory stories.[/b][/i][/color]

[color=royalblue][i][b]Hey gang, what's familiar here? [/b][/i][/color][color=royalblue][i][b]The answer: [color=darkorange]Tropicale.[/color] :eek: [/b][/i][/color]

[color=royalblue][i][b]Different year, different ship -- but it's starting to sound like the same old story.[/b][/i][/color]
[b][/b]
__________________

[Sox_Fan]

Well said EscapeFromConnecticut. Thank You.

[LadySpoilt]

[quote name='Sox_Fan']Well said EscapeFromConnecticut. Thank You.[/QUOTE]
I agree with Sox Fan. The post from EscapefromConnecticut was well written, accurate and to the point.
While I am a loyal Carnival Cruiser, I will be the first to admit I would have been furious upon finding out after I was in the embarkation line that this was a "cruise to nowhere"...and worse yet "nowhere" being only 50 miles away. (The last time I chose to cruise in January I wanted WARM/HOT temps....not 70's) I don't think the $ 100.00 credit was enough. I think a substantial discount on a future cruise is appropriate...and NOT just the standard 10% coupon.
Sandra

[Cruise News Daily]

[font=Verdana][size=2][font=Courier New][font=Courier New][size=2]Sharon, I think you are giving Carnival a lot more credit than they deserve for being organized and able to deal quickly with things involving hundreds of people.

As I understand it, your major complaint is that you weren't advised of the change in advance and you weren't offered the option to cancel.

When I'm writing an article involving bad service, I find out what was causing the problem and then I ask myself what they reasonably could have done differently, given the existing circumstances. In this case, the only thing I see Carnival could have done differently is to have put the option of a refund on the sheet of paper you were handed. On the other hand, I can't see any business in America dealing with a complaining customer by offering a refund at the very outset of the "conversation."

The situation was unfolding all day long, and there wasn't time for advance communication.

About the time you were having breakfast that morning was when Carnival in Miami was first getting word of the propulsion problem. (Maybe a little earlier, depending on what time you got up to pack.) That's when they had to look at the options and begin the process of deciding what to do about the sailing. It wouldn't have been until late morning that they could have made a decision and then start the machinery to actually implement it.

I don't know your time line, but it could well be that you were arriving at the the pier before the staff had the details or any letter could have been printed.

I don't see having someone stop people as they entered the parking lot as being a realistic option. Everyone would have questions. Then everyone is going to have to make a decision right then and there, "Do I go in the parking lot or not?" I think that would create a massive traffic tie-up and they still would have cars trying to get in at sailing time.

I think the person who (probably hastily) wrote the letter you got was operating under the assumption that the vast majority of people would opt to go on the cruise. Like you said in one of your notes, they have gone to the trouble and expense of getting there, and it's a holiday weekend, and I think most people would have traveled considering those things.

I agree it would have been better to have put the option of a refund in the letter, but I don't think any other business would have done that either.

If an airline has a plane break down on a holiday weekend, they assume you want to salvage what you can of your vacation and tell you they will book you on the first flight out they have seats on, even though you may get there a day late. If you ask for a refund, they give it to you, but they generally don't bring it up because they assume you still want to go. When I return something that doesn't work to a store, the assumption is that I want to exchange it, not refund it.

Carnival told me that anyone who told them they didn't want to go or asked for a refund got it no questions asked. I have no reason to believe they didn't because I can't find any reports by anyone who asked about a refund and didn't get one.

Given when the incident happened, I think Carnival handled it just about as well as they could have.

Alan Wilson
Cruise News Daily
[/size][/font][/font][/size][/font][size=2][/size]

[KenP]

If they had time to type up that letter offering a $100 onboard credit they had time to insert a paragraph that full refunds or future cruise credit would be available to any passenger that wished to delcine sailing. A few Carnival Cruise reps could have been stationed at the gangway to explain passengers options. Although this would have delayed the sailing, it is not like they had a time schedule to keep as they were just sailing to nowhere!

Cruise companies should have contingency plans when events like this happen. They should err on the side of giving the customers the choice. Most would have chosen to sail, and even though the cruise was poor, they wouldn't complain as much since it was their choice to sail.

[fldad23girlz]

Stores that I make a purchase from and decide to return it, have a published refund/exchange policy right there at the service desk so I know I can ask for a refund. Carnival has a published cancellation policy. Under that policy, if no exceptions were made, they would not have issued refunds in this instance. If Carnival was making exceptions to their own policy they should have made that known, otherwise no one would have reason to think they could cancel and get a refund. Some have stated their luggage was already on board before they got this infamous letter. Sure doesn't sound like Carnival was making them think they had much of an option.

What did Carnival offer them if they went? $100 on their S&S card. Which ws the passenger's any way. They had already paid Carnival the port charges. All Carnival did was reimburse the port charge in such a way as to be able to keep the profits. The passengers got not one thing for their inconvenience...and Carnival got extra profits for a lesser cruise.

I undertand things happen...machinery breaks down...weather goes bad. But communication...accurate and complete...makes the difference between a PR fiasco or success.

[GoinCruisin]

I agree... they tried to make the $100 shipboard credit look as though that is what they were giving them for their inconvenience, when in reality, they were reimbursing the $100 port charge. I just don't like how they did that... I know it would have been difficult for Carnival to orchestrate this... but what they should have done was gotten everyone on the ship... and made an announcement. Delay sailaway (not like they had anywhere urgent they were going :rolleyes: ) and told EVERYONE what was going on and what their options were. If people wanted to get off the ship, they could do so. They could have made something work. It sounds like some people were given the option, some weren't... I'm sure many would have still gone, but they would have enjoyed themselves because they had been given the choice. It was handled poorly and is still being handled poorly.

[fldad23girlz]

....according to local newspaper...but not verified independently...the port authority did refund the parking charge of anyone that chose not to go. So Mobile handled that right, and with a little coordination that could have been announced along with Carnival's info...had Carnival chosen to fully disclose...

I assume the porters kept their tips.:D

Good night!:)

[MyImagination]

[color=black]Not sure if this was already posted[/color]

[url="http://www.al.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-11/1104964777245940.xml&storylist=alabamanews"][color=black]http://www.al.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-11/1104964777245940.xml&storylist=alabamanews[/color][/url]

[color=black][/color]
[color=black]There was a lawyer onboard[/color]

[Cruising4Fun]

I'm sorry but the many posts here about "I would take the $100 and party!" and "Those whiners should just enjoy sailing around the bay 10 miles from home and paying $1500-2000" simply don't know what you're talking about. Many people on this cruise flew or drove quite a distance. They arranged baby sitting, did not choose OTHER options for New Year's Eve and went with the express purpose of visiting the one port in Mexico. To be told when you are arriving at the terminal to sail that you won't go to the one port you are supposed to is just plain wrong. The Holiday is a dated ship. There isn't much to do. There weren't many activities. What is the real value of a $100 credit to just put it back in Carnival's pocket? Those of you who said that "people who go on a cruise with only one port obviously don't care about the ports" are totally wrong. We elected to go on a cruise with one port only because it's a GREAT port and at least we would get to shop and sightsee in Mexico. But this ship ran aground or something a month ago and has been limping along since. Why didn't Carnival fix this? I heard that they are "mothballing" this ship in a month. Does it seem that Carnival had no intention of doing the necessary repairs because they were trying to milk out a couple last cruises including a premium priced, sold out New Year's cruise? Don't say "I bet with the whiners gone, everyone onboard had a ball." That's not true. I went on this cruise and EVERYONE and I MEAN EVERYONE on that ship that I talked to was totally ticked off at Carnival. Many were first time cruisers. They may be last-time cruisers, but I know they are last time Carnival cruisers. Their vacation was ruined. A 5 day cruise to no-where? When you wanted to go somewhere and paid two grand, that's totally unacceptable. Yes. I have been on cruise ships that couldn't go to port because of inclement weather that was OUT OF THE CRUISE LINE'S CONTROL. This is not such a "it's not my fault" situation. I hold Carnival completely responsible for this incompetent and upsetting fiasco. Do you really think it's reasonable to pay $2000 for 4 nights and sailing in a circle miles from home? I wish I had gone home, eaten at great restaurants, danced at local venues and saved about $1,200. Don't tell me that the fine print says this or that about substituting ports or reserving the right to cancel for passenger safety. This wasn't a case of a hurricane or storm. They damaged their ship and couldn't repair it. Where is the compensation for those of us who didn't get what we paid for? I called customer service and was told that the (Carnival) "company has not elected" to do anything for us. if they don't believe that telling people at the last minute that they had ship problems is not customer friendly, then they need a wakeup call. I know a bunch of people who are going to give it to them. I would love to hear from other Holiday Dec 30 passengers who feel this is unacceptable and want to get satisfaction.