Abandoned by HAL

[CanadianMAG]

 

I have a feeling that HAL's responsibility may have terminated at disembarkation. Reservations were made for the return flight. Mother nature caused that flight to cancelled, and things just got worse.

I thought she missed her flight because the ship had engine problems and was late into port?

[JDee]

[

 

I thought she missed her flight because the ship had engine problems and was late into port?

Yes, it's true the ship was late getting back into port. However, as I understand it, since the air package was purchased, HAL made the new reservations to coincide with the late arrival. That seems to be how all the e-ticketing thing got all messed up. New reservations were made, but airlines said HAL did not provide the e-ticket and would not allow boarding.

 

It's a complex situation and I wouldn't bet on the outcome either way...

[Pete Jackson]

Pingsplace,

 

>Arrived at the airport on Dec. 24 and was told that the tickets are not actually tickets but just an itinerary. The airline told me that >Holland America failed to send them the e-ticket! I was told that all I had to do was call Holland America and Holland America would >just simply e-ticket the airline.

 

Would they have let you pay for the tickets yourself at this point? And, if so, how much would the fare have been? If it were possible and reasonable, that would have been the way to go, and then go after HAL (or the airline) for a check later.

 

Just made a mental note never to take a cruise ending just before Xmas!

[ekerr19]

I have a feeling that HAL's responsibility may have terminated at disembarkation. Reservations were made for the return flight. Mother nature caused that flight to cancelled, and things just got worse. HAL is most likely going to shift resposibility to the airlines. HAL brochures and web site are pretty specific disclaiming and resposibility due to airline disruptions and legally binding.

 

Wish you well on your persuit. Good luck......

Sorry JDee but I disagree - Ping purchased air thru HAL - they "guarantee" they will cover any delay, missed flight, etc.

 

This is on HAL - no matter who the TA is - the air "add-on" thru HAL guarantee's Ping's return.

 

No matter what the circumstance.

[JDee]

Sorry JDee but I disagree - Ping purchased air thru HAL - they "guarantee" they will cover any delay, missed flight, etc.

 

This is on HAL - no matter who the TA is - the air "add-on" thru HAL guarantee's Ping's return.

 

No matter what the circumstance.

Sorry ekerr, but I would disagree. It now appears that Ping purchase both cruise and air through Vac-to-go as a pkg deal. As such, she is subject to the terms and conditions expressly provided by HAL. I didn't want to do it, but will now type some of those express conditions from HAL's Carib Brochure, pages 94 and 95. We can each make our own interpretations.

 

QUOTE: Holland America's Fly Cruise Plan

 

In these changing times, it's worth every dollar--and then some.

 

When your airfare is arranged through Holland America Line, you are automatically enrolled in our Fly Cruise Plan, a program which entitles you to a whole host of benefits.

 

Flight Delay Assistance - If your flight is delayed, we'll make sure someone is at the airport to meet you and help you with your luggage.

 

Flight Cancellation Assistance - If your flight is cancelled or a revised schedule no longer connects to the ship or tour, we will alter your ticket at no charge; if necessary, we'll even rebook on an alternate airline.

 

Transfer Service - We will include all transfers between airport and ship, ship and hotel, hotel and airport.

 

Custom Travel - Our Air Plus Service allows guests to select which airlines they prefer, upgrade flight class, and/or travel to and from their (dis)embarkation port on dates other than those usually booked. """"

 

I'll post the liability section from pg 95 on next posting due to current board problems. Lost some stuff & had to do over.

[ekerr19]

JDee- Any agent can purchase HAL's add-on air... we did so twice, once through Amex - bad results.

[JDee]

OK, here goes w/page 95:

 

Liability and Relation With Airlines

 

We reserve the right to use carriers, routing and fare structures of our choice, and to utilize commuter and/or charter air service without prior notice. As the airlines we use are based on capacity-controlled, promotional, and group fares, we may limit or close sales without prior notice at any time. If, due to any cause beyond our control , we are unable to arrange for air travel or the air travel we arrange is unavailable, or otherwise fails to materialize, our liability will be limited to refunding the air add-on amount paid by us. We assume no liability for any acts ora omissions of any airline, including, without limitation, those involving cancellation of flights, schedule changes, re-routings, damage to or delay or loss of baggage, flight delays, equipment failures, accidents, pilot or other staff shortages or computer errors. The liabilities and obligations of an airline to you, and your rights against an airline, are subject to any and all terms and conditions of the airline's ticket and tariffs."""

 

Whew, that's a lot of typing. And that's a lot of exclusions for HAl's liability.

 

Have to hit the hay, as have to get up early am, as heading for Atlanta & need the rest--driving of course....Will continue to monitor this thread. Sure hope that Ping can get some satisfaction, but still believe it looks more and more like a long shot.

 

As for the Master Card holding up payment, that is only a temp thing. Should HAL deny liability and demand payment, MC has no choice but to comply and advise Ping to pursue in Civil Court.

[ekerr19]

I guess this is just another reason for avoiding HAL's add-on air ... we did it twice, two times TOO many. :)

 

I also would guess this is my point - they (HAL) dropped the ball with Ping. He should have had coverage. He booked HAL's Air Add-on... you spelled it out above - thanks!

[ekerr19]

Sorry ekerr, but I would disagree. It now appears that Ping purchase both cruise and air through Vac-to-go as a pkg deal. As such, she is subject to the terms and conditions expressly provided by HAL. I didn't want to do it, but will now type some of those express conditions from HAL's Carib Brochure, pages 94 and 95. We can each make our own interpretations.

JDee - What interpretations need be made? HAL's air is the same no matter who the TA is... he purchased the "Fly-Cruise" plan... I'm sorry, but I'm not following at all - he IS covered - that's my interpretation. :)

 

Thanks for all the typing - I couldn't remember all the details of the "Fly Cruise Plan".

[Globaliser]

Yes, it's true the ship was late getting back into port. However, as I understand it, since the air package was purchased, HAL made the new reservations to coincide with the late arrival. That seems to be how all the e-ticketing thing got all messed up. New reservations were made, but airlines said HAL did not provide the e-ticket and would not allow boarding.

 

It's a complex situation and I wouldn't bet on the outcome either way...

On those facts, I don't agree the situation is at all complex. If it was HAL's responsibility to arrange air travel and therefore to issue a new e-ticket on the replacement flight on which they'd made a reservation, and then HAL failed to issue the e-ticket, then the responsibility is HAL's.

 

All this stuff about who the OP should have called and so on relates to everyone else running around trying to salvage the mess that was caused by HAL failing to discharge its responsibilities. Granted, the fact that HAL couldn't be contacted may have meant that a 60-second problem fix couldn't be done and led to the subsequent bigger hassle, but it doesn't absolve HAL from its responsibility. If HAL didn't issue an e-ticket, a whole truckful of printed itineraries counts for nothing.

[Johanna7]

As the OP had a package and was in Canada, maybe it was a wholesaler who packaged the HAL cruise with their own air and not HAL's air. Some really large TAs here use Hal's cruises and HAL's air but others have a package with a wholesaler (middleman) who chooses the air they team it with. It is usually a bit cheaper than HAL's air.

 

We have used it a few times and indeed, it does save money but obviously does not have the same protection.

[pingsplace]

I bought HAL's cruise & air package through VactoGo. All my cruise/Tix have HAL's name on it; otherwise, HAL wouldn't have re-booked my Dec. 22 flight.

 

If I bought my own tix back to Vancouver from Virginia, it would have cost $1500 per person. Per the airline's suggestion, I drove to Boston for cheaper plane tickets. The airline said it would cost $628 per person. Lucky me, I found flights for $200 per person on Expedia (Boston to Vancouver). I was quite worried about booking on-line but it was a chance I had to take.

[localady]

Ping-

 

The thing I don't understand is why you've not hopped on the phone to talk to a live person at HAL since you have been home. You have spent a great deal of time here discussing the problems but as I read it, you've not contacted them on the phone. Why not???:confused:

[peaches from georgia]

If I bought my own tix back to Vancouver from Virginia, it would have cost $1500 per person. Per the airline's suggestion, I drove to Boston for cheaper plane tickets. The airline said it would cost $628 per person. Lucky me, I found flights for $200 per person on Expedia (Boston to Vancouver).

But you had the expense of the trip to Boston, car rental, hotel for 8 or 9 extra days, food, etc.. I believe you said somewhere that the extra days' expenses cost you $3000? A wash with buying the tkts in Norfolk, no? Plus your time which has a cost.

 

I do have the same question as localady. As you have posted you are very aware that responses from HAL to written inquiries are very slow to come, if at all, and you are going to get the runaround with a phone call. With what you went through and the out-of-pocket expense involved I would have jumped in my car the day after I got home and been in Seattle in HAL's office 2-3 hours later. I just don't understand the lack of urgency. Not a criticism, just a question. :confused:

[Cruiseoften]

I bought HAL's cruise & air package through VactoGo. All my cruise/Tix have HAL's name on it; otherwise, HAL wouldn't have re-booked my Dec. 22 flight.

 

If I bought my own tix back to Vancouver from Virginia, it would have cost $1500 per person. Per the airline's suggestion, I drove to Boston for cheaper plane tickets. The airline said it would cost $628 per person. Lucky me, I found flights for $200 per person on Expedia (Boston to Vancouver). I was quite worried about booking on-line but it was a chance I had to take.

 

 

Think we're getting closer to the real story. Vacations to Go would seem to figure largely in this. True, HAL may have some responsibility but the outfit you started out with would not, in my book, be off the hook. VtoG acted as your TA and as such was responsible for seeing that everything was in order. Being new to cruising and travel (it seems) you did not question anything because I guess you had no face to face contact.

 

I do hope things work out for you. By all means keep following up with HAL but don't spare Vacations to Go, THEY GOOFED BADLY.

 

Please keep us posted on this thread - please don't start another one ;)

[Globaliser]

I'm not sure what the travel agent could have done, though, if the air travel was HAL's package and HAL had rebooked the OP at the last minute because of the delayed arrival of the ship. On the story as I understand it, HAL was (as far as the airline was concerned) the "travel agent" with which the airline was dealing, so HAL would have been responsible for issuing any replacement ticket in addition to making the replacement reservation.

 

But looking again at the OP's chronology, the one thing that does puzzle me is why, when holding a confirmed reservation, he couldn't simply pay the airline directly for the travel which HAL had reserved but not ticketed. That would at least have got the OP out on the original date, and probably at the cruise line's contracted rate or something similar. This would have been a different solution from buying completely new tickets for the next day on which the airline had available space.

[Cruiseoften]

I'm not sure what the travel agent could have done, though, if the air travel was HAL's package and HAL had rebooked the OP at the last minute because of the delayed arrival of the ship. On the story as I understand it, HAL was (as far as the airline was concerned) the "travel agent" with which the airline was dealing, so HAL would have been responsible for issuing any replacement ticket in addition to making the replacement reservation.

 

But looking again at the OP's chronology, the one thing that does puzzle me is why, when holding a confirmed reservation, he couldn't simply pay the airline directly for the travel which HAL had reserved but not ticketed. That would at least have got the OP out on the original date, and probably at the cruise line's contracted rate or something similar. This would have been a different solution from buying completely new tickets for the next day on which the airline had available space.

 

Can't totally agree with you Globaliser - HAL may well book the air space but it's the TA who has to request seat assignments, special meals, etc. etc. for the travellers - HAL supplies the chosen airlines' 'locator' to the TA for just that purpose.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20 vision - I believe that if the traveller had contacted the TA, "Vacations to Go", something could have been worked out. Sad but true, don't ever leave home without contact number(s) for your TA

 

That all this happened over the festive season (compounded this year because of when Christmas Day fell) is most frustrating. Can only hope there is a happy ending.

 

I still feel strongly that Vacations to Go has responsibity for at least some of the inconvenience. I'd keep after that organization and HAL.

[Globaliser]

Can't totally agree with you Globaliser - HAL may well book the air space but it's the TA who has to request seat assignments, special meals, etc. etc. for the travellers - HAL supplies the chosen airlines' 'locator' to the TA for just that purpose.

Ordinarily, that's right, although this is more a matter of practicality than anything else as the TA is the one with more direct lines of contact with the passenger. In fact, armed with the locator you as the passenger can actually also do all of that yourself directly with the airline, and I personally prefer to do it myself as it prevents misunderstandings and ensures that the airline knows exactly what you want.

 

But this doesn't work very well in a situation where at the last minute, while the ship is still at sea, HAL finds it has to rebook the passenger because the ship will return late.

 

Anyway, though, the core problem seems to be that the e-ticket was not issued, although everything else was done. If that was HAL's responsibility, it was nothing to do with the TA. The TA, it seems to me, would have been unlikely to have been able to do any more than try to phone HAL themselves to get HAL to do what HAL ought already to have done. And if HAL was just not answering the phone to anyone, the TA would have got as much of a blank wall as the OP did - and the failure to issue the e-ticket still wouldn't have been the TA's fault in any way.

[tooalto]

I'm having a little problem understanding what happened here. We were on the "Hurrican Frances" sailing of the Zuiderdam which was delayed by over three days getting into Ft. Lauderdale. HAL purchased air was rebooked by them but our air was booked by me. There was no point of trying to rebook while still at sea, regardless of what many passenger thought, because no one had any odea of where the equipment might be when we returned. This is the same situation. Because of sea delays and air travel problems, no one knew how many aircraft would be able to fly into Norfolk.

We already had our e-tickets, return portion, so we had a contract with the airline. They had to get us to our destination. They weren't responsible for when or how, but they had to get there. There shoudl have been no problem with HAl or the TA not "issuing the e-ticket" There was already a ticket issued and ticket numbers were listed in your record with the airline. When we finally arrived at the airport in Ft. Lauderdale, we , along with hundreds of other stranded travellers, waited in line at our respective airline ticket counters, presented our e-ticket itineraries and the ticket agent searched for a way to get us home. because of ticket procedures, she confirmed us a flight home 2 days later, then found a flight with only a few stand-by passengers listed and put us on that list. We went to the gate, waited and made the flight. No extra purchase was needed or should have been made.

I am speaking from both sides of the desk here, having been a travel agent and traveller. Unless this passenger requested a new ticket for a different routing than originally ticketed, the return portion of the old ticket should have sufficed. As I said, the pax had a contract with the airline to provide round trip travel. Regardless of when the pax was able to depart Norfolk, there should have been no additional charge except for hotel and food. These expenses should be covered by travel insurance as our would have been had we be forced to spend the extra two days in Florida. If the pax had been re-booked by HAL, the airline should have honored their own ticket.

[Linda&Vern]

Here's an update:

Vacations to Go emailed and told me that HAL never received any of my phone calls and wanted to a list of numbers that I called. I emailed VacToGo the telephone numbers that I had from the HAL travel docs.. These numbers are from my travel documents. How was I supposed to know that I should have packed the yellow/white pages with me on a cruise? I wouldn't have thought to carry VacToGo telephone numbers b/c it was only supposed to be a 11 night trip.

 

Curious as to what telephone numbers you called. We were on the Dec. 22 sailing. Because of communication from HAL we knew we were going to have delayed embarkation because of the late arrival of your sailing. I called HAL from the road twice that afternoon and immediately spoke to a customer service rep who updated me (almost as if she had a script in front of her) on the expected return time of Maasdam and expected embarkation time for us. I called 1-800-426-0327, the number listed on page 4 of HAL's "KNOW BEFORE YOU GO" booklet which was included with my travel documents. (Hours quoted for a Wednesday are 5:00am to 7:00pm Pacific Time zone - which would have been 10:00pm EST.) There is also an emergency phone number listed for after hours and holidays. I'm sorry you couldn't get through to HAL quickly to help with your problem.

[Globaliser]

We already had our e-tickets, return portion, so we had a contract with the airline. They had to get us to our destination. They weren't responsible for when or how, but they had to get there. There shoudl have been no problem with HAl or the TA not "issuing the e-ticket" There was already a ticket issued and ticket numbers were listed in your record with the airline.

...

I am speaking from both sides of the desk here, having been a travel agent and traveller. Unless this passenger requested a new ticket for a different routing than originally ticketed, the return portion of the old ticket should have sufficed.

I think that the OP was originally booked to fly CO, but HAL re-booked him on UA. Would there be an interline e-tix problem here? Without an interline e-tix agreement, I can see why UA might not have been able to accept (or even read) an unendorsed CO e-tix.

[tooalto]

As far as I can remember, if CO had the original ticket number, then all they had to do was endorse it over to UA. This could be done by a sticker - or it least it had been done that way. Most all airlines will cooperate this way. I know we flew from SFO on Delta ( NOT my favorite airline) and were delayed because of equipment problems in Dallas. All DL did was sticker our tickets to endorse it over to USAir. I feel sure, with the huge airline mess, this should have been done. I just don't think HAl should shoulder blame. If the pax had been contacted by HAl air desk and given flight numbers, times and seat assignments then their job should have been done. It was simply a matter of one airline endorsing a ticket to another. I'm sure, in the confusion of all that occurred that weekend, a ticket agent or agents just didn't have the correct info.

[Globaliser]

I know we flew from SFO on Delta ( NOT my favorite airline) and were delayed because of equipment problems in Dallas. All DL did was sticker our tickets to endorse it over to USAir. I feel sure, with the huge airline mess, this should have been done. I just don't think HAl should shoulder blame. If the pax had been contacted by HAl air desk and given flight numbers, times and seat assignments then their job should have been done. It was simply a matter of one airline endorsing a ticket to another.

This OP's problem wasn't caused by the airline mess that day, just exacerbated by it. The problem was caused by the late arrival of the ship.

 

In your case, it was a DL problem that led to them endorsing your tix to US - which any airline is free to do if they are sorting out problems they have caused.

 

But for the OP, it seems to me that as far as CO was concerned either the pax had no-showed for the booked and ticketed flight (because the ship was late), or the CO res and tix had been canx by HAL when they rebooked the OP onto UA. If the CO res was canx, or if the CO tix were non-endorsable, why should CO endorse anything to UA when the problem was not of their making? And what do we know that suggests that, even if the original tix were endorsed by CO to UA, they would have been sufficient to pay for a last minute res made by HAL on UA - which could have been in a pretty high booking class?

 

And that's before you look at any interline e-tix issues, where a paper sticker isn't going to solve the electronic problem of transferring the electroniccoupon from one airline to another. You can only paper sticker paper tix.

 

From what we know so far, it sounds like HAL took the step of making the confirmed res on UA, but then failed to issue the tix. Why isn't that HAL's responsibility? Making a res for your client but not issuing tix is pretty much going to guarantee that your pax will not be boarded.

[DoctorFeelgood]

Terrible event...

 

... just another example of why you should get 3rd party insurance for your cruises.

 

 

I hope it works out well for the OP.

[halos]

When first posted, I wondered the same as Josee as to why a person would actually need a paper e-ticket?? As long as you can identify yourself, why would not the airline issue the boarding pass and allow you to board?? HAL may very well disclaim any liability saying that the airline should have allowed the pax to board.

 

Tickets get lost. Am sure people show up at the pier w/o cruise tickets left at home, but identify themselves and allowed to board. Of course, better have your passport or birth certificate.

 

Did the OP take up the issue with an airline supervisor??

 

A complicated case, to be sure. Good luck.....

 

 

Yeah...I thought the whole purpose of an E ticket, was avoiding the paper ticket?? I buy E tickets all the time, the reservation is always in the computer...I just show ID...something isn't Kosher here.