Bummped from cruise

[1980dory]

I feel badly for the OP but I didn't think you or Dory said anything offensive....

 

I always get everything in writing, get names, dates, times you spoke to so and so...

 

Thank you for your understanding. In all of my posts I have never meant to be offensive or hurtful (Please refer to my original post in which I expessed my empathy for OP's problem, and in a subsequesnt post in which I again referrred to my concern and appreciation for the problem).

You provide excellent advice too! Without it, you usually don't have a leg to stand on. That's the reality. :)

[1980dory]

I feel badly for the OP but I didn't think you or Dory said anything offensive....

 

I always get everything in writing, get names, dates, times you spoke to so and so...

 

Thank you for your observations.

No offense has ever been intended in my posts. I have always sympathized with the OP. (See my original and subsequent posts).

Your advice is excellent! Without the info, you generally don't have a leg to stand on.

[CALMOM]

SMeyer418, I find your post above, and that of 1980 dory, offensive, even though I'm sure neither of you meant it that way.

 

Your comments on how U.S. based bookings are managed have no relevance on this thread, where the OP is Australian. There is no surge of cancellations for non-U.S. cruisers before final payment because Australian deposits are not refundable.

 

I posted about this earlier.

 

I feel very, very sorry for Bulldoglady - not just because of what happened to her, but because so many have compounded the pain by their postings.

 

How would YOU feel if you posted....for example....that you'd lost all your money due to a travel agency bankruptcy. Then, U.K. posters repeatedly said, "That can't happen. There's national insurance that covers defaulting travel agencies."

 

Exactly.

 

I'm out of here. I regret I find most of the people who've posted on this thread a bit thick headed.

 

I think you are a little lost on this posting, especially accusing the posters you did. Maybe a little too much Cat Nip:p

 

I believe most posters support the OP, not so much about what they offered them but more that paying passengers should not be treated this way. It's just not good Customer Service!

[beachchick]

I wish people would stop comparing being bumped from an airline flight to being bumped from a cruise. These are not equal comparisons. Flights are generally only transportation taking us from point A to point B. There are generally other flights within a reasonable time frame, either with the same airline or another. Being bumped from a flight doesn't generally mean that an entire vacation must be rearranged. Sure, sometimes it does if it means that you then miss your ship's embarkation, but there are ways to catch up and there are other options. What other options are there if you're 7 days from your cruise and get bumped? It's not as if there are a dozen other cruise ships leaving from the same port on that same day. It's a hell of a lot easier to rebook a flight than it is to rebook a cruise when you're so close to departure. A cruise is an entire vacation package and is not a way to just get from one place to another. A better comparison would be getting bumped from an all-inclusive resort or similar.

 

beachchick

[beachchick]

You're right! Once you have paid for your cabin and you have a confirmed reservation, the cabin IS yours!

<snip>

In those instances, they will offer customers perks to take a later cruise. It works just like the airlines. They will keep upping the ante until they get enough customers to give up their cabins (even though they had a confirmed reservation).

If you take the time to carefully read your cruise line contract you'll see that you give them the power to 'bump' you if necessary. "Necessity" is determined by the cruise line. You relinquish any say in the decision

when you book.

But, cruise lines will NOT 'involuntarily' bump anyone. Why should they? That would destroy their business with many, very unhappy customers.

They just keep sweetening the pot until they get enough happy 'takers' to free up their cabins.

If you have paid for your cabin and have a confirmed reservation you have nothing to worry about. You will NEVER be forced to give up your cabin involuntarily! You might be offered a 'deal' to take a different cruise. But you will always have the final say as to whether you accept or not.

Hope this helps. Happy cruising!:)

 

Clearly this is not correct. Bulldoglady is not the first member to report being involuntarily bumped from a ship or a cabin.

 

beachchick

[1980dory]

Clearly this is not correct. Bulldoglady is not the first member to report being involuntarily bumped from a ship or a cabin.

 

beachchick

 

May I humbly suggest that you go back and reread my post of yesterday at 6:42 PM? You may find the first two sentences interesting and informative.

[beachchick]

May I humbly suggest that you go back and reread my post of yesterday at 6:42 PM? You may find the first two sentences interesting and informative.

 

Thank you. (I did have to calculate what time your 6:42 pm was to mine, but once I figured out we are in different time zones, I got it.)

 

I did want to mention that I didn't read any of your posts as being insulting or berating to anyone. I think some of us (me included from time to time) get overly sensitive to perceived slights. It seemed to me that your posts were intended to be informational more than anything else.

 

It is surprising to me how many people believe that there's no way a cruise line would be allowed to bump them or change their cabin without consent. It's a small chance to be sure, but one that should be taken into consideration. It is also yet another reason we buy travel insurance every time.

 

beachchick

[1980dory]

Thank you. (I did have to calculate what time your 6:42 pm was to mine, but once I figured out we are in different time zones, I got it.)

 

I did want to mention that I didn't read any of your posts as being insulting or berating to anyone. I think some of us (me included from time to time) get overly sensitive to perceived slights. It seemed to me that your posts were intended to be informational more than anything else.

 

It is surprising to me how many people believe that there's no way a cruise line would be allowed to bump them or change their cabin without consent. It's a small chance to be sure, but one that should be taken into consideration. It is also yet another reason we buy travel insurance every time.

 

Thank YOU for your reply! Your response was very gracious and much appreciated.

You have hit the nail on the head with what I was trying to communicate.

Yes, corporations can be viscious with the little guy. I would suggest that you watch a movie called Flash of Genius for a true story about the inventor of intermittent wipers and how Ford Motor company stole his invention. It is a very well made movie and it will shock you! The inventor's marriage, life and family were destroyed by Ford Motor Company as a result of thier theft and lies which were finally proven in court.

Finally, I would like to say that it is always important to get ALL the facts before making a decision. It is natural for people to forget or otherwise inadvertently leave out important information when presenting a problem or situation. Just look at our courts and how they operate. They work at getting all the facts, then the jury decides guilt or innocence, or who is right or wrong. Without the fact finding process, there can be no justice.

For that reason, our courts are little interested in feelings, emotions, speculation, or what one 'thinks' or guesses. As Sergeant Joe Friday once said, "Just the facts, Ma'am".

As a wise person instilled in me many years ago, "There's always two sides to every stream". And to look at 'the other side' does not mean that one is unsymapthetic to the situation.

Happy sails!:D

[smeyer418]

... It's a small chance to be sure, but one that should be taken into consideration. It is also yet another reason we buy travel insurance every time.

 

beachchick

 

Most Travel insurance won't pay under these circumstances. The cruise line refunded you the money you paid. Its probably not a covered event. I don't think the cruise lines disclose the over booking as a reason to cancel and I would believe that you at least in the US would have a claim against them for actual damages.

[IrishRoots]

I found your post very interesting. I did not know cruise lines "bumped" routinely, however a couple of years ago it was in the news that Rosie O'Donnell had NCL bump several hundred passengers because she bought out the trip to have a themed cruise for Gay Parents and their children. (no-I am not against that-to each his or her own-but I did feel badly for the people who had vacations planned only to learn they were bumped!)

 

I wonder how routinely this does happen. From the comments it seems that posters suspect Princess or HAL.

 

I hope you have an even more wonderful time when you do get to take that vacation. Sorry you won't be with your friends.

[smeyer418]

I found your post very interesting. I did not know cruise lines "bumped" routinely, however a couple of years ago it was in the news that Rosie O'Donnell had NCL bump several hundred passengers because she bought out the trip to have a themed cruise for Gay Parents and their children. (no-I am not against that-to each his or her own-but I did feel badly for the people who had vacations planned only to learn they were bumped!)

 

I wonder how routinely this does happen. From the comments it seems that posters suspect Princess or HAL.

 

I hope you have an even more wonderful time when you do get to take that vacation. Sorry you won't be with your friends.

 

 

This isn't considered a bump, at least not for over booking. Almost all the cruise lines reserve the right to charter a ship. Each of the mass market lines has done this one time or another for a charter-such as Rosie's. Actually she does one a year. If they do so they normally do this many months out 6-9 or more. Not a week before the ship sails..

 

Its also not unusual to see at least once a year a cruise canceled for mechanical reasons or an emergency dry dock. I think that has happened twice in the last month on two different cruise lines.

[beachchick]

Most Travel insurance won't pay under these circumstances. The cruise line refunded you the money you paid. Its probably not a covered event. I don't think the cruise lines disclose the over booking as a reason to cancel and I would believe that you at least in the US would have a claim against them for actual damages.

 

I wouldn't expect insurance reimbursement for the cruise because the cruise line would do a full refund. However, any other non-refundable travel costs (air, certain hotel or rental car bookings, etc.) would be covered by many travel insurance policies. It's still a cancellation of the cruise, which is generally covered regardless of why the cruise line cancelled it. Of course, every policy is different, so it would depend on the specific insurance.

 

No, we wouldn't have a claim for actual damages because the cruise lines cover themselves pretty well. They don't have to specify overbooking as a reason for cancellation because they use the blanket "we can cancel your cruise for any reason and at any time...too bad" clause.

 

beachchick

[Moeve]

Beachchick fortuantely for us cruisers that clause doesn't cut it with many courts around the world and courts also don't buy this business about suing them in Miami either. Many courts lay the law where if the lines take higher cancellation fees and make those stick from day one in foreign countries then this sue them in Miami also doesn't count euther..... Many foreign courts do take into account that those deviations from the contract exist but since the lines only apply it to one side of the contract many courts will only allow them to use it when applied to things like weather, unrest etc but most certainly not to cruise lines simply over book. Some of the cases we have seen in Europe (and there are very few of them) have gone to the client (passenger) and the lines have had to compensate far more for lost vacation time tooo.

 

OP since you were compensated to the majority of your loss I am not sure that you would fair much better trying this in court although the bit about you travelling with friends could also weigh in here. I don't remember but did you have that about the upgrade in writing? ..... and what exactly did the wording say? If available?????

[smeyer418]

...

 

No, we wouldn't have a claim for actual damages because the cruise lines cover themselves pretty well. They don't have to specify overbooking as a reason for cancellation because they use the blanket "we can cancel your cruise for any reason and at any time...too bad" clause.

 

beachchick

 

This clause is unenforceable in most places and in fact doesn't apply in this situation. The Cruise has NOT been canceled-only you contract for that cruise.

The airlines had such a clause when Ralph Nader sued them after being bumped....

 

Both California and Florida have in every contract the implied obligation to deal fairly with the other contracting party. Almost every cruise contract in the US has a choice of law of either Florida or CA. I assure you that bumping someone when its not disclosed, is NOT a cancellation of the cruise, its a cancellation of the contract and its NOT covered by the clause you cite.

[smeyer418]

too many NOT's sorry about that...

[1980dory]

Beachchick fortuantely for us cruisers that clause doesn't cut it with many courts around the world and courts also don't buy this business about suing them in Miami either. Many courts lay the law where if the lines take higher cancellation fees and make those stick from day one in foreign countries then this sue them in Miami also doesn't count euther..... Many foreign courts do take into account that those deviations from the contract exist but since the lines only apply it to one side of the contract many courts will only allow them to use it when applied to things like weather, unrest etc but most certainly not to cruise lines simply over book. Some of the cases we have seen in Europe (and there are very few of them) have gone to the client (passenger) and the lines have had to compensate far more for lost vacation time tooo.

 

OP since you were compensated to the majority of your loss I am not sure that you would fair much better trying this in court although the bit about you travelling with friends could also weigh in here. I don't remember but did you have that about the upgrade in writing? ..... and what exactly did the wording say? If available?????

 

After much argument, discussion, name calling, etc. on this thread, OP finally said that the cruise line did in fact say that the upgrade was, "If available". Many posts back I responded that this whole thread would have been negated if that little detail had been made at the beginning of the complaint. That phrase alone gives total power to the cruise line and as a consequence, there is no promise or guarantee of an upgrade. There is absolutely no point in trying to demand something that was not actually promised. Financial loss, feelings, hurts, opinions, wants, desires, inconvenience, or fairness do not apply.

And yes, the cruise line's actions were dirty and certainly do not promote goodwill, trust and confidence in their company.

[smeyer418]

After much argument, discussion, name calling, etc. on this thread, OP finally said that the cruise line did in fact say that the upgrade was, "If available". Many posts back I responded that this whole thread would have been negated if that little detail had been made at the beginning of the complaint. That phrase alone gives total power to the cruise line and as a consequence, there is no promise or guarantee of an upgrade. There is absolutely no point in trying to demand something that was not actually promised. Financial loss, feelings, hurts, opinions, wants, desires, inconvenience, or fairness do not apply.

And yes, the cruise line's actions were dirty and certainly do not promote goodwill, trust and confidence in their company.

 

 

I don't know for sure and I take the original poster at what she said but I think what actually happened was slightly different.

 

yes the Cruiser was called and was told that they cruise line was in an over booked condition and was offered to change to the next sailing with the offer of a possible upgrade. She might have heard that she was being bumped. She agreed thinking that that promised her an upgrade. She took the first offer.

That is the most likely scenario even when we haven't heard from the cruise line. We will never really know but it is also possible, although less likely, that she was bumped for whatever reason...and I don't think there has been that much name calling- although I do think there has been some misunderstanding of what people said...

[NMLady]

I don't know for sure and I take the original poster at what she said but I think what actually happened was slightly different.

 

yes the Cruiser was called and was told that they cruise line was in an over booked condition and was offered to change to the next sailing with the offer of a possible upgrade. She might have heard that she was being bumped. She agreed thinking that that promised her an upgrade. She took the first offer.

That is the most likely scenario even when we haven't heard from the cruise line. We will never really know but it is also possible, although less likely, that she was bumped for whatever reason...and I don't think there has been that much name calling- although I do think there has been some misunderstanding of what people said...

 

Did you read ALL of the OP's posts here?? She later said her TA has it in writing the offer of an upgrade. Problem is it also said 'if available'. If you read ALL the posts from OP you'll see that it is not a question of what she might have heard, but what was done.

I doubt very much she would have taken an offer since it would mean she couldn't cruise with her friend who was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Her friend was still on the cruise.

Read ALL of the OP's posts!!

[serendipity1499]

momofmeg, can you offer hard data supporting your fact that the ships operate at a loss when less than full capacity? I for one, do not believe this. I also do not sail with Princess and I will add this to the list of reasons why. They have no business bumping passengers when passengers are paid in full. Asking for volunteers and then giving them the same offer as the OP should be the norm. Pray tell, when they have to shell out the free cabin and pay for her airfare, are they not losing $$$ also? That makes no sense to me whatsoever

Julieanne.Having retired from an International Airline, I’ve kept up to date on many aspects of the Travel Business. Have also kept invoices & pertinent info from all of our cruises & attest to the fact that our cruises are still the same & sometimes less for the same outside cabins we've booked over the years...

For instance lets compare prices to the Caribbean- our first 10 day on the Ryndam in 1998 cost us $133 each including port charges & taxes per day…in 2001 our 10 day on the Volendam cost us $136.00 per day each again all inclusive. And in 2003 we had a bargain on the Maasdam for 7 days. We each paid $69.28 per day all inclusive. Since 1998 inflation has increased, yet Cruise Fares are basically the same or in some cases cheaper. On 6-15-05 I downloaded a post by “Zackiedaw”...He said that he booked an SS cabin on the Zeiderdam, for $133.00 per day...

I can’t quote any of our recent fares, since we now take the longer 21 to 28 day cruises & our prices for cabins are a little higher. But compared to the inflation rate anyone in the travel field will tell you that Cruise Lines only break even on your cabins… Compare cruises to prices at all inclusive resorts, & most TA’s will tell you that a Cruise is still a “steal”...

As far as hard data is concerned, several years ago there was a program on the Travel Channel which confirmed that Cruise Lines make money only on on-board purchases, not on basic cabin prices. All Cruise Lines profit is made by liquor, tours, spas’s,& casino sales…They even gave a breakdown on the profit margins.. I do agree with you that to bump a passenger on that particular itinerary who was traveling with friends only 7 days before departure is not good business practice..

I lost a child 25 years ago. Her twin survived but had 8 surgeries between birth and age 18, and still has many serious health issues. So, I do have empathy for you and feel terribly that your little grandson is going through that, I also have empathy about your parents. Mine are both dead. I just wish I still had them, even in ill health. (selfish of me, I knwo) But your family's health issues are not the cruise line's fault. It may have been "the straw that broke the camel's back," but being bumped off a cruise, and your grandson and parents being gravely ill, has nothing to do with each other.

Do you really think this was necessary? :(The OP never said the cruise line was the entire cause of her dismay, but it was the final straw that broke the camel’s back. This part of your post to her is very condescending...

Normally you get bumped off a cruise for the same reason you are for a flight, it is overbooked. The lines do try to get volunteers to change cruises, but if that fails, then they have to bump someone. Refunding your cruise fare, reimbursing for non refundable flights, along with giving you a free cruise in the same category that you originally booked is very good compensation.

You can’t be serious that being bumped off a cruise is the same as being bumped off a flight. Yes, we overbooked 10 to 20% due to the many no-shows in the Airline Business, but we always had another flight to offer either on our Airline or on another Company. Agree all cruise Lines do overbook out of necessity, but to cancel a psgr 7 days before departure, who booked a year ahead, was paid in full & was traveling with another couple is not good business. I understand why she is upset. I would be too!

On my last roll call, people took a bump voluntarily after being asked. What did they get? They went from a VF guarantee category balcony to a VA assigned balcony (best balcony on HAL before mini suite category) they were given a $200 on board credit, and they also were given the difference in cost for the penalty of changing their flight dates. Now they did volunteer, but you see, your deal was MUCH better.

Really now, why is her deal much better. She was traveling with an ill Friend... They promised her an upgrade if space was available & they should give it to her!

I am sorry this happened to you, however, I do think you were treated very fair. My guess is an employee who had no authority was the one that told you that you would be upgraded. I would not be surprised if he/she was fired or severely reprimanded for telling you this, especially if that is not company policy to do in the case of bumped cruisers.

Why would you think an employee would be fired for that? :confused: And how do you know it’s not company policy. Employees, in large call centers, normally would not offer something which was not approved by Management. And if the employee was Fired, it still does not negate the fact that she was promised an upgrade if space was available..

Unless you have this in writing (example- a saved e-mail) I doubt you can do anything about it. If it was a phone conversation, there is little you can do. Although phone calls are recorded, the cruise line is not likely to share the "evidence" with you. The "burden of proof" will be upon you. (recorded phone calls- hence my belief the employee was probably fired or reprimanded)

The Travel Agent had it in writing!

I don’t understand why people don’t read an entire thread before commenting on one post. That is what the little box with the Quotation “ marks are for. You can quote several posts at a time...

Bulldoglady..I'm sorry you had to go through all this & hope you get your up-grade..I completely understand what you went through..Hope you enjoy your cruise too..Cheers.. Betty

[mom2isabella05cole08]

Okay, after reading the entire thread, I do feel sorry that the OP was bumped from the cruise. Many good points have been made as well.

 

One thing to consider, for those who keep mentioning that she was traveling with a friend, the cruise line probably didn't know that UNLESS they had booked the two rooms together. If I call and book one room and then my friend calls and books another room, does not show that we are traveling together. But if I call and book two rooms, for a party of four, then they would see that I'm actually a party of four and not just a party of two.

 

As for the poster upset by the fact that many kept mentioning the cancellation fees kicking in at final payment, I can understand that cancellation fees over there kick in as soon as you book the cruise (so they would have the fees even if they canceled the day after booking rather than having no fees until after the final payment is due). But, there's nothing saying that everyone on the cruise fell into that category (US citizens may have been on the cruise too). The point is that the cruise line will have it's standard practices and will stick to those. If that means waiting until after final payment is due to figure out the issue with overbooking, then that is when they will face that problem if it still exists at that point. Because, even though they may face the cancellation fees from day one over there, the cruise line has found over their years of being in business that cancellations still do typically occur up until final payment is due. Bumping procedures need to stay standard throughout the company, just like all other procedures are standard.

[smeyer418]

Did you read ALL of the OP's posts here?? She later said her TA has it in writing the offer of an upgrade. Problem is it also said 'if available'. If you read ALL the posts from OP you'll see that it is not a question of what she might have heard, but what was done.

I doubt very much she would have taken an offer since it would mean she couldn't cruise with her friend who was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Her friend was still on the cruise.

Read ALL of the OP's posts!!

 

she "heard" what she wanted to hear. They said if available in writing. You can hear what you want even when its in writing. You yourself said people either haven't read the thread or understood it. I really do stand by what I said. Its my opinion clearly labeled as such.

 

As I said I do sympathize with her. But doesn't mean I have to accept everything she says without making mu own judgment.

 

Please you are entitled to your opinion on this give others the same courtesy.

 

BTW NCL on a TV show admits that its break even point(other cruise lines may vary) is when its about 95% full based on lower two(2 in a room). Cruises as I pointed out aren't full full until they are at 120_130% of lower two, as they can get more than 2 in many rooms.