Smart Casual - the debate

[blitznbobs]

After the jeans debate I am confused (Why can't all nights be formal nights it would make my life so much easier). I always thought a smartly cut pair of jeans with a stylish top/ jacket and killer heels was definitely within the ''smart casual'' catergory and had planned to wear this on some of the casual nights - but apparently some people say not -- so what exactly do you see as 'smart casual' and where does casual kick in?

 

Blitz

[mehitabel]

I consider "smart casual" to be a cotton or wool skirt (depending on season) with a coordinating top, or a nice pair of slacks or trousers with a top. Or a nice print dress with moderate-to-high heels. Maybe any of the above with a complementary fitted jacket or blazer. Basically, something like I'd wear to church.

[GORDONCHICK]

For cruise purposes, if the line allows jeans in the MDR, then that's all you need to go by. Personally, I feel underdressed if I'm in a restaurant with a tablecloth and cloth napkins and I'm in jeans. I am also very hot natured and aside from Alaska, I would probably only have 1 pr of jeans with me, and I would usually be traveling in them depending on the time of year.

 

However, aside from cruising I can tell you that smart casual even here in Oklahoma is usually more along the lines of country club casual, which would be no jeans. Jeans & shorts are only allowed at the grill part of the country club. Doesn't matter if they are nice, dressy, expensive, whatever jeans or if they are paired with a dressy top and heels - it's a no-go.

 

So I can definitely see where confusion can come into the mix. Then add to that, there are some parts of the country that are just more casual than others and their idea of "dressed up" isn't enough.

[bxmvm]

It looks like I inadvertently started the jean debate - after the responses I received on that thread, and my own definition of smart casual - I am sticking with jeans, a killer top, and heels for casual nights. Here is Cleveland "smart casual" certainly includes jeans.

 

I am a first time cruiser, which is where my question came from, but I think what matters most is that each individual is comfortable. "Dressed up" jeans make me comfortable.

 

I see here the OP said "why can't every night be casual night" - if it was I would be miserable. I have to dress up for work every day (suits - not gowns obviously) and having to dress up EVERY night on a cruise would not be my idea of a good time :) To each his own, I guess :)

[blitznbobs]

I see here the OP said "why can't every night be casual night" - if it was I would be miserable. I have to dress up for work every day (suits - not gowns obviously) and having to dress up EVERY night on a cruise would not be my idea of a good time :) To each his own, I guess :)

 

I actually said why can't every night be a FORMAL night... I love getting dressed up to the nines and find 'smart casual' much harder to carry off.

 

Blitz

[bxmvm]

I actually said why can't every night be a FORMAL night... I love getting dressed up to the nines and find 'smart casual' much harder to carry off.

 

Blitz

 

Oops - that is what i meant. Sorry! LOL

 

I am the complete opposite - formal nights stress me out :)

[sholto]

so can men where shorts ? smart ones above the knee?

[phillycruise]

so can men where shorts ? smart ones above the knee?

 

Most lines say no shorts/t-shirts in the MDR. I think you are welcome in the buffet in shorts. In saying that I've cruised RCL and NCL and I have seen both women and men in shorts in the MDR and the specialty restaurants. I have never seen anyone turned away. My husband tends to wear a smart pair of Khakis on an evening with a short sleeved shirt.

 

OP. You could invest in a killer pair of white/cream pants/jeans and wear all your cute tops/heels with them. That's my uniform on regular nights. If they are cute jeans with a darker wash I can see any problem. I love that look.

 

I too have more of a problem with formal nights. I loved getting dressed up but have a problem buying dresses that are just going to be worn once or twice.

[lawskool10]

For cruise purposes, if the line allows jeans in the MDR, then that's all you need to go by. Personally, I feel underdressed if I'm in a restaurant with a tablecloth and cloth napkins and I'm in jeans. I am also very hot natured and aside from Alaska, I would probably only have 1 pr of jeans with me, and I would usually be traveling in them depending on the time of year.

 

However, aside from cruising I can tell you that smart casual even here in Oklahoma is usually more along the lines of country club casual, which would be no jeans. Jeans & shorts are only allowed at the grill part of the country club. Doesn't matter if they are nice, dressy, expensive, whatever jeans or if they are paired with a dressy top and heels - it's a no-go.

 

So I can definitely see where confusion can come into the mix. Then add to that, there are some parts of the country that are just more casual than others and their idea of "dressed up" isn't enough.

In OK? Yeah right!

Just kidding!

Here in Dallas, it's probably the same way. Unless it's in the mall, jeans and cloth napkins and table cloths don't mix.

 

However, for a cruise, I think it's ok if done correctly. People need to be conscious of the wash and cut of the jeans, the top and foot wear.

I've seen folks in jeans that are better dressed than those in dress pants.

[blitznbobs]

How odd... I guess Americans are more dressy than us 'ere Brits - I've dined at many Michelin starred restaurants in the UK and worn jeans every time... maybe this is a 'cultural' thing...

 

Blitz

[bxmvm]

How odd... I guess Americans are more dressy than us 'ere Brits - I've dined at many Michelin starred restaurants in the UK and worn jeans every time... maybe this is a 'cultural' thing...

 

Blitz

 

I don't know - I have been in some fancy restaurants in Cleveland wearing dark denim and never felt out of place either.

 

Sometimes I think people see the word "jeans" and think:

 

 

A nice pair of dark jeans - even black - can look just as good as dress pants, IMO. The jeans above, not so much! LOL :)

[phillycruise]

How odd... I guess Americans are more dressy than us 'ere Brits - I've dined at many Michelin starred restaurants in the UK and worn jeans every time... maybe this is a 'cultural' thing...

 

Blitz

 

Hey Blitz...I'm a Brit living in the US. I don't think it's a case of one nationality being more dressy than the other. I think it's just a different sense of style. My observations are that Americans in general (please don't shoot me) tend to be more on the conservative side. I'd say the Brits dress up in a different way. Just as French woman dress completely differently to the Brits. I would also say here in the US they are huge regional differences in how people dress too coast to coast and all places in between.

 

 

I would wear a nicely cut pair of jeans to a posh restaurant at home, with heels and a cute top. You are not talking about jeans that you do yard-work I know. I love this look. The only reason I wouldn't tend to pack jeans for a hot weather cruise is that usuallly I'm a little sunburned and don't want anything that tight or heavy.(especially after eating and drinking all week!!!)

[phillycruise]

I don't know - I have been in some fancy restaurants in Cleveland wearing dark denim and never felt out of place either.

 

Sometimes I think people see the word "jeans" and think:

 

 

A nice pair of dark jeans - even black - can look just as good as dress pants, IMO. The jeans above, not so much! LOL :)

 

I totally agree.;)

[Warm Breezes]

so can men where shorts ? smart ones above the knee?

 

On Carnival they can on non-cruise elegant nights. Both my DH and DS did - and it is allowed in their dress code.

[madelinerose]

[poppan]

Hey Blitz...I'm a Brit living in the US. I don't think it's a case of one nationality being more dressy than the other. I think it's just a different sense of style. My observations are that Americans in general (please don't shoot me) tend to be more on the conservative side. I'd say the Brits dress up in a different way. Just as French woman dress completely differently to the Brits. I would also say here in the US they are huge regional differences in how people dress too coast to coast and all places in between.

 

Spot on, well said!

[T&Dcruisers]

Smart casual is a loosely defined dress code. "Loosely" is used because it really depends on the setting, situation and group makeup and typically conforms to those standards. Sometimes, but definitely not always, the term is interchanged with "business casual," again depends on the standards of the situation or setting. Some, but not all, definitions of smart casual do in fact include jeans. This category of dress calls for a pulled-together, harmonious, complete look with colors, fabrics, shoes, and accessories, for both men and women. Basically, pull yourself together and if your definition includes jeans, go for it, if it doesn't don't wear jeans and look the other way when someone else's definition and standard of dress does include jeans. Whatever your definition, it's still a step up from resort wear or beach wear.

[hi2you]

Oops - that is what i meant. Sorry! LOL

 

I am the complete opposite - formal nights stress me out :)

I hear you -though as much as I like to get dressed up, since I don't get the chance to do it often, it always turns into an event-which dress should I wear, is it outdated, should I buy a new one, but why spend the money on a new one that I only get to wear once......now with smart casual I have no issues-for me, it doesn't include jeans-capris, smart top, and a fabulous pair of shoes. It is all about the shoes.

[cruisemom42]

Since my company's definition of "smart casual" does not include jeans, I don't consider them smart casual.

 

Just curious also -- if one allows great looking, great fitting jeans into the dining room, how can the management say no to folks wearing jeans that are baggy, ragged, poor fitting, etc? Especially when the person says "Well, you just seated the people in front of us and THEY were wearing jeans...."

[Cruising Carol]

Son-in-law was refused entrance to dining room on Coral Princess when he was wearing knee length shorts. He quickly changed to long pants and rejoined us.

[wanasail]

I think that the jeans issue is sometimes age related. Not so many years ago jeans were only used as heavy work wear. Levi Strauss designed jeans out of tent canvas, later changed to denim for miners to use during the gold rush as a sturdy garment in rugged territory. They have since been used as heavy work wear in barns and fields throughout North America. They were not worn as a fashion garment until somewhat recent times and a lot of us still relate jeans to the fields no matter what style and cut. It has only been within the last 20 years or so that most restraunts have taken down there signs that posted NO JEANS, NO CUT OFF SHIRTS, NO SHOES, OR NO SERVICE. This is what most of us that frown on jeans remember and find it hard to understand how you can possibly dress up a pair of jeans to be acceptable dinner wear. It's an age thing. :)

[Calinae]

 

 

LOL I am with you

[T&Dcruisers]

I think I will start referring to my jeans as "denim trousers," jeans issue solved. :p

[Jane110]

I think that the jeans issue is sometimes age related. Not so many years ago jeans were only used as heavy work wear. Levi Strauss designed jeans out of tent canvas, later changed to denim for miners to use during the gold rush as a sturdy garment in rugged territory. .....

 

wanasail....

You're close.

 

Levi Straus started making the canvas overalls for miners and they complained about the scratchy fabric. He had some soft fabric from France, which was blue and came from the Serge de Nimes region.

Early workers called them Dungaree's, which also has a foreign origin and were overalls, not quite the pants we wear today.

 

The pant style, or jean, came later....

 

The word "jeans", like denim itself, has a French origin and was taken by the word "Genes" which is the French word for Genoa, Italy. They originally called then "bleu de Genes", the blue pants of Genoa, which were made from the cotton twill fabric produced in Nimes, France.

 

Jean's haven't been only used for heavy work wear for 40-50 years, so I think the older generation should be used to them by now. And I agree that they weren't accepted as "nice" restaurant attire until 20 years ago.....but that should still be enough time to get used to a trend. :D

And as for cruise wear, it's only been the past perhaps 3 years that they've been acceptable on a few cruiselines at dinner time.

I'm a jean's lover and I wouldn't wear them on a Caribbean cruise as I think they don't fit in with the climate. But then, I wouldn't wear velvet on a cruise either! ;) :D

[luvscruising2007]

I really liked the picture showing the jeans that are "inappropriate".

Now, could someone post the jeans that would be considered

appropriate.

Also, men's vs, ladies; skinny ladies/men vs. fluffy ladies.