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Baseball Caps in Dining Room

Hal&Rob

By Hal&Rob,
in Holland America Line

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imsulin

imsulin

Posted
Posted
Yotefan -

 

That's what I've been thinking reading some of the criticisms on different threads on the boards. I'm honestly worried that someone will feel it is his or her "duty" to "save me from embarrassing" myself with my bad or (in their opinion) inappropriate fashion choices by loudly and publicly remonstrating me.

 

I'm quaking in my boots picturing an older person with black socks pulled up to the knee and covered in a poly/cotton blend muumuu shaking their fingers at me and making me feel bad on my vacation!

 

I'm an OLDER person who actually does wear black pant socks pulled up to the knee under my jeans! I like the thinner socks during winter because they don't stretch my shoes out. It may be what you will do years from now, because it's comfortable. I don't wear a muumuu, though. I prefer long poly/cotton nightgowns. I actually look pretty good for being in my 60's, at 5'8" and 120 lbs. Can you say the same? Please don't "picture" what you do not really know. I could "picture" YOU, but I won't. It would be offensive of me to refer to young people wearing hip-huggers with a 2" zipper, skinny jeans that can't even close, ugly vest/blouse tops with short puffy sleeves trying to cover fat arms, or tops that are so low-cut that there is no imagination. Offensive comments work both ways. If you do not categorize older people, they will not categorize you.

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babyher

babyher

Posted
Posted
:D The only tattoo is a Cowboys star on my...uh...sitting spot. Can you guess what my ball cap looked like and why I was still sitting in the Sports Bar dressed in such gaudy attire? :D

 

 

 

Hmmmmmmmm don't know what to say to that ...

 

Oh hell yes I do........... "Damn thats hot !!!!!!!!" :)

 

Hey as long as the ball cap doesn't say Red Sox , you can sit near me anytime. *LOL*

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BaltiGator

BaltiGator

Posted
Posted

The posts in this long thread have mixed together what I believe are three separate issues about the suitability of a hat on a man's head.

 

The first issue regards a ship's dress code in the dining room. Now, there have been over 1,485 threads (and counting) on the CC boards about dining room dress codes, so I won't go there. No wait, I will go there, but only to say one thing: abiding by a ship's dining room dress code shouldn't be a big deal. Either go along with it or eat elsewhere on the ship. Easy, right? (I don't like dressy clothes so I eat elsewhere on formal nights.) If a cruise ship's dining room dress code specifies no hats for men, then men should not wear hats. Simple. (Medical conditions etc. excepted of course - let's have no more idiotic discussion about why an ill 15 year old boy needs to wear a fez to dinner.)

 

The second issue regards whether a baseball cap is somehow a lower form of men's headgear than other hats. I would argue that this is strictly a matter of personal preference. While most of us might agree that a nice dressy top hat looks better with a tux than, say, a pink baseball cap with "Honk If You Love Sheep" embroidered on it, nevertheless the distinction is more about opinion and taste than anything else. I have seen some very formal ladies' hats that I considered to be far, far more abusive to my eyes than any baseball cap. And as someone pointed out in a very intelligent post about 27 pages ago, younger generations and/or other cultures may consider baseball caps to be the height of style on a man's head. If you're too old and/or rigid in your ways to agree with them, well, that's not really their problem, is it?

 

So, wherever hats of all kinds are inappropriate, baseball caps are also inappropriate. But where other hats are OK, caps should be OK too.

 

The third issue is the discussion of whether men should wear hats or caps indoors at all (in places where there is no defined dress code). An awful lot of posts in this thread have used phrases such as "bad manners" and "rude behavior" and "lack of etiquette" and so on with regard to men wearing caps indoors.

 

But how or why is it rude to wear a cap indoors? Oh, I fully understand that there's a century-old arbitrary rule of etiquette in play here. Emphasis on the word ARBITRARY. Just because some prissy people who lived a long time ago decided for whatever reason that a hat on a man's head indoors was bad manners doesn't make it so.

 

Bad manners is not holding a door for a person who is walking directly behind you, allowing it to slam in their face if they don't react fast enough. Or at least, if you're too "liberated" to hold doors all the time, bad manners surely is not holding a door for someone whose hands are full or who is visibly too elderly or infirmed to easily open it themselves.

 

I see bad manners all the time. On cruise ships like everywhere else.

 

Bad manners is cutting in front of someone in the buffet line without so much as an "excuse me" or a friendly smile. Bad manners is making a lot of noise late at night in your cabin while other people are trying to sleep. Bad manners is barking orders at dining room waitstaff instead of calmly and humanely expressing your needs and preferences.

 

Why are these things bad manners? Because they adversely affect the people around you. Manners, etiquette, whatever you want to call it, is about doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. Yes, the good old golden rule.

 

Now, if I'm wearing a baseball cap in a grocery store, or a library, or a public space on a cruise ship, how exactly am I doing harm to anyone else? A few people posted that it is "disrespectful" to others. How so? Just because Emily Post said so? I don't accept "just because" as a valid reason, and I refuse to follow arbitrary rules of etiquette that make no sense to me.

 

I consider myself to have pretty good manners. I try to be considerate to those around me. I hold doors. I don't cut in line. When others cut in line in front of me, I politely abide by it. I try to be humble when I speak to cruise ship staff (or anyone in a service position), not only because I want to treat every human being with dignity, but also because I don't believe that being financially better off than someone else makes me in any way superior to them (it doesn't, it just makes me more fortunate).

 

But I cannot, for the life of me, see how a man wearing a baseball cap indoors (again, dining rooms excepted, and OK, if you insist, houses of worship) in any way, shape or form does any harm to any other person, except maybe those persons who have a stick stuck so far up their arse that they are "offended" or "annoyed" at the mere sight of a cap on a man's head in a place that has a roof. Huh?

 

To those people I say, I feel sorry for you. Life's too short.

 

Dress codes are arbitrary too, but IMO they are the ship's prerogative. No different than if I visit someone's house and they want me to remove my cap. I would, just because they asked me and I'm in their house. Very different from someone at the grocery store asking me to remove it. Sorry, not your prerogative in that situation, and as far as I can tell, in no way harmful to you.

 

Well, that's my 63 cents worth. Thanks for reading.

 

P.S. I only wear baseball caps outside in bright sun (so as to protect my bald head). I don't like to wear them otherwise; they make my scalp itch. And I don't even own a dressy hat. In fact the other only hat I own is a winter wool hat. And only a true fool would wear that thing indoors, not because of any silly rule of etiquette, but because indoors you'd sweat like a roasting pig.

 

Happy cruising!

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mrsltg

mrsltg

Posted
Posted
T

Why are these things bad manners? Because they adversely affect the people around you. Manners, etiquette, whatever you want to call it, is about doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. Yes, the good old golden rule.

 

 

Baloney. You've decided what you *think* is bad manners. Ever heard the saying, "If it's too loud, you're too old?" Someone playing AC/DC at an audible volume for them may well be annoying the crud out of the people next to them. It may be the other people would be fine with Guy Lombardo and his Big Band, but anything circa post 1955 is in poor taste. Or vice versa. Maybe someone with a hearing problem turns up their radio to an audible level for them, yet they are intruding in on someone else's listening space. This is not necessarily on a cruise ship, BTW.

 

Not holding the door does not negatively impact someone else unless they are not paying attention and then, that's really their own fault. Eyes up and open and you won't have a door slam in your face.

 

Stepping in front of someone in a station buffet line to grab a roll is not bad manners. After all, you're not genuinely affecting the enjoyment of anyone else. You're simply grabbing whatever and really, if someone can't wait an addition 10 seconds that would seem to be their problem, too.

 

Of course, I don't do any of these things because *I* perceive them as being rude. Just as *I* perceive a gentleman in wearing a hat while dining to be rude. *I* also perceive viewing someone else's underwear (unless I am married to them or gave birth to them) as being rude. There is a basic core set of manners and they are all included. It's not really supposed to be a buffet from which one picks and chooses. If and when it does come to that, there will be a lot of problems. That's when you have obnoxiously loud music, swearing in mixed and unfamiliar company, thongs hanging out of 15 year old's pants, doors slamming in someone's face, and hats in the Rotterdam Dining Room. Just as one, in polite company, does not discuss religion or politics, one tries to uphold some social mores if for nothing else than the fact that there might be someone who is truly offended by whatever rule you are breaking. Respect is a two way street and I was raised to believe that the side of the street belonging to senior generations is wider and you give a damn about what they think.

 

FYI - I am 34, not 74...

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serendipity1499

serendipity1499

Posted
Posted

Your post is completely confusing to me...:confused:

 

Don't understand why you believe his post is Baloney...:confused:

 

Baltigator said in his post about that the first issue a hat in the Dining Room...He agreed it was "bad manners" to eat dinner in the MDR with a hat on since it does not follow the dress code...

 

.His second & third illustration has nothing to do with the Main Dining Room they discuss having a baseball cap on indoors only..He also goes on to say that he would remove his cap in someones home if they asked him to..

 

I agree with you that things such as loud music & kids with their bums showing, swearing in mixed company :( is also rude & believe they could impact others enjoyment of a cruise....

 

Betty

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G&G

G&G

Posted
Posted

 

 

But I cannot, for the life of me, see how a man wearing a baseball cap indoors (again, dining rooms excepted, and OK, if you insist, houses of worship) in any way, shape or form does any harm to any other person, except maybe those persons who have a stick stuck so far up their arse that they are "offended" or "annoyed" at the mere sight of a cap on a man's head in a place that has a roof. Huh?

 

To those people I say, I feel sorry for you. Life's too short.

 

Excellent!

 

As previously posted in this thread, don't sweat the small stuff. How can so much attention be about wearing a baseball cap on a cruise ship when these threads shouls be about ports of call, cruise ships, shore excursions, etc

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DizzyDallasDi

DizzyDallasDi

Posted
Posted
How can so much attention be about wearing a baseball cap on a cruise ship when these threads shouls be about ports of call, cruise ships, shore excursions, etc

 

But, the entertainment value is priceless. And, as an added value, you get a very good idea of the posters' personalities. ;)

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madelinerose

madelinerose

Posted
Posted
I try to be humble when I speak to cruise ship staff (or anyone in a service position), not only because I want to treat every human being with dignity, but also because I don't believe that being financially better off than someone else makes me in any way superior to them (it doesn't, it just makes me more fortunate).

 

Life's too short. Happy cruising!

 

From one Baltimorean to another....nice post. ;)

 

One question. How would/do you know that you're "financially better off" than any service person in any venue, land or sea? ;)

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bulgargirl

bulgargirl

Posted
Posted
I'm an OLDER person who actually does wear black pant socks pulled up to the knee under my jeans! I like the thinner socks during winter because they don't stretch my shoes out. It may be what you will do years from now, because it's comfortable. I don't wear a muumuu, though. I prefer long poly/cotton nightgowns. I actually look pretty good for being in my 60's, at 5'8" and 120 lbs. Can you say the same? Please don't "picture" what you do not really know. I could "picture" YOU, but I won't. It would be offensive of me to refer to young people wearing hip-huggers with a 2" zipper, skinny jeans that can't even close, ugly vest/blouse tops with short puffy sleeves trying to cover fat arms, or tops that are so low-cut that there is no imagination. Offensive comments work both ways. If you do not categorize older people, they will not categorize you.

 

Imsulin - Sorry to have offended you.

 

The muumuu, socks, and older age were in reference to this thread and others where people have indicated that muumuus are appropriate to wear instead of bath robes, that sockless shoe wearers (though sometimes it is actually the socks that are a problem) offend, and that HAL is preferred by an (very generalized statement here) older crowd that is a little more sedate than, say, Carnival.

 

That is what I was trying to tongue-in-cheek refer to. However, if it offends, it is always something that I am sorry to have done. So please accept my apologies.

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luvs2travl

luvs2travl

Posted
Posted
The posts in this long thread have mixed together what I believe are three separate issues about the suitability of a hat on a man's head.

 

The first issue regards a ship's dress code in the dining room. Now, there have been over 1,485 threads (and counting) on the CC boards about dining room dress codes, so I won't go there. No wait, I will go there, but only to say one thing: abiding by a ship's dining room dress code shouldn't be a big deal. Either go along with it or eat elsewhere on the ship. Easy, right? (I don't like dressy clothes so I eat elsewhere on formal nights.) If a cruise ship's dining room dress code specifies no hats for men, then men should not wear hats. Simple. (Medical conditions etc. excepted of course - let's have no more idiotic discussion about why an ill 15 year old boy needs to wear a fez to dinner.)

 

The second issue regards whether a baseball cap is somehow a lower form of men's headgear than other hats. I would argue that this is strictly a matter of personal preference. While most of us might agree that a nice dressy top hat looks better with a tux than, say, a pink baseball cap with "Honk If You Love Sheep" embroidered on it, nevertheless the distinction is more about opinion and taste than anything else. I have seen some very formal ladies' hats that I considered to be far, far more abusive to my eyes than any baseball cap. And as someone pointed out in a very intelligent post about 27 pages ago, younger generations and/or other cultures may consider baseball caps to be the height of style on a man's head. If you're too old and/or rigid in your ways to agree with them, well, that's not really their problem, is it?

 

So, wherever hats of all kinds are inappropriate, baseball caps are also inappropriate. But where other hats are OK, caps should be OK too.

 

The third issue is the discussion of whether men should wear hats or caps indoors at all (in places where there is no defined dress code). An awful lot of posts in this thread have used phrases such as "bad manners" and "rude behavior" and "lack of etiquette" and so on with regard to men wearing caps indoors.

 

But how or why is it rude to wear a cap indoors? Oh, I fully understand that there's a century-old arbitrary rule of etiquette in play here. Emphasis on the word ARBITRARY. Just because some prissy people who lived a long time ago decided for whatever reason that a hat on a man's head indoors was bad manners doesn't make it so.

 

Bad manners is not holding a door for a person who is walking directly behind you, allowing it to slam in their face if they don't react fast enough. Or at least, if you're too "liberated" to hold doors all the time, bad manners surely is not holding a door for someone whose hands are full or who is visibly too elderly or infirmed to easily open it themselves.

 

I see bad manners all the time. On cruise ships like everywhere else.

 

Bad manners is cutting in front of someone in the buffet line without so much as an "excuse me" or a friendly smile. Bad manners is making a lot of noise late at night in your cabin while other people are trying to sleep. Bad manners is barking orders at dining room waitstaff instead of calmly and humanely expressing your needs and preferences.

 

Why are these things bad manners? Because they adversely affect the people around you. Manners, etiquette, whatever you want to call it, is about doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. Yes, the good old golden rule.

 

Now, if I'm wearing a baseball cap in a grocery store, or a library, or a public space on a cruise ship, how exactly am I doing harm to anyone else? A few people posted that it is "disrespectful" to others. How so? Just because Emily Post said so? I don't accept "just because" as a valid reason, and I refuse to follow arbitrary rules of etiquette that make no sense to me.

 

I consider myself to have pretty good manners. I try to be considerate to those around me. I hold doors. I don't cut in line. When others cut in line in front of me, I politely abide by it. I try to be humble when I speak to cruise ship staff (or anyone in a service position), not only because I want to treat every human being with dignity, but also because I don't believe that being financially better off than someone else makes me in any way superior to them (it doesn't, it just makes me more fortunate).

 

But I cannot, for the life of me, see how a man wearing a baseball cap indoors (again, dining rooms excepted, and OK, if you insist, houses of worship) in any way, shape or form does any harm to any other person, except maybe those persons who have a stick stuck so far up their arse that they are "offended" or "annoyed" at the mere sight of a cap on a man's head in a place that has a roof. Huh?

 

To those people I say, I feel sorry for you. Life's too short.

 

Dress codes are arbitrary too, but IMO they are the ship's prerogative. No different than if I visit someone's house and they want me to remove my cap. I would, just because they asked me and I'm in their house. Very different from someone at the grocery store asking me to remove it. Sorry, not your prerogative in that situation, and as far as I can tell, in no way harmful to you.

 

Well, that's my 63 cents worth. Thanks for reading.

 

P.S. I only wear baseball caps outside in bright sun (so as to protect my bald head). I don't like to wear them otherwise; they make my scalp itch. And I don't even own a dressy hat. In fact the other only hat I own is a winter wool hat. And only a true fool would wear that thing indoors, not because of any silly rule of etiquette, but because indoors you'd sweat like a roasting pig.

 

Happy cruising!

 

BRAVO!! And I'm an LSU graduate!! GO SEC!!

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BaltiGator

BaltiGator

Posted
Posted
From one Baltimorean to another....nice post. ;)

 

One question. How would/do you know that you're "financially better off" than any service person in any venue, land or sea? ;)

 

Thanks. Like a lot of cruisers, I enjoy engaging the staff in conversation whenever they have a moment free. One thing I've learned about the wonderful people who work on cruise ships for our entertainment and enjoyment is that most of them - I mean the waitstaff, housekeeping and such, not the professionals such as officers, engineers or managers - come from relatively meager economic means compared to what good fortune has brought my way. You're right, of course. I didn't mean to sound presumptive. The point, as I'm sure you agree, is that it doesn't matter. We all need to be civil to one another regardless.

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BaltiGator

BaltiGator

Posted
Posted
BRAVO!! And I'm an LSU graduate!! GO SEC!!

 

Absolutely, SEC! Not a great hoops year in the conference overall, and definitely not for you guys. But you've got a fantastic football program and every year I prepare for a battle when it's LSU-UF time!

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luvs2travl

luvs2travl

Posted
Posted
Absolutely, SEC! Not a great hoops year in the conference overall, and definitely not for you guys. But you've got a fantastic football program and every year I prepare for a battle when it's LSU-UF time!

 

Thanks, and back atch'ya! It will be interesting next year between us, won't it? We are HUGE Tebow fans and are wishing him the best in all his future endeavors. What a credit he is to his university and their program, his parents, his community and most of all, to humanity. A lot of young people could learn much from his example. Don't want to get too off-topic here or we will both get booted!

 

Thanks again for your most intelligent post. It was a great read and right on!! :D

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esther e

esther e

Posted
Posted
Absolutely, SEC! Not a great hoops year in the conference overall, and definitely not for you guys. But you've got a fantastic football program and every year I prepare for a battle when it's LSU-UF time!

 

 

Just had to do this:: Go 'Noles!

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