Critic of cruise ship art auctions wins $500,000 from Park West

[Rowtyd]

I know one is not supposed to correct spelling errors on CC. But I think it is spelled SHAMPAGNE.

 

I think it's also spelled ShamPain but as the art dealer states: "It goes up in value once on land."....So I'm sure it's the good stuff.

[andrzej5914]

Why does anybody care what Park West or any of the cruiselines that have them aboard do? Who is forcing anybody to go to these auctions?

 

On my first cruise in 2001 I bought few pieces and they still hang on my walls, almost 9 years later. I'm happy with the purchase and never looked back thinking that I got ripped off. Did I? Perhaps, maybe, possibly, but at the end of the day, it was my choice..... Why should some stranger care how I spend my money?

 

Since then I went on 2 more cruises, both featuring PW auctions. I went to the auctions, didn't buy anything and NEVER felt pressured to do so.

 

OTOH, if you don't find these auctions entertaining, STAY AWAY! Who is forcing you to go? and who is asking you to count some stranger's money or how they spend it?

 

Have the very expensive spa treatment, or few expensive drinks of the day at the pool. Should I tell you that you are being ripped-off when you do it?

 

Leave it alone folks, it's none of your business on how I chose to spend my money, just as it's none of my business on how you chose to spend yours....;) After all, we're all adults, at least I like to think that and we can make our own choices.

[Paul65]

Why does anybody care what Park West or any of the cruiselines that have them aboard do? Who is forcing anybody to go to these auctions?

 

The concern is that they misrepresent the value of some of the art in order to convince people that they're getting a good deal, when they're really overpaying. Of course, it's not that much different from what a lot of car salesmen or jewelry vendors in the port cities do. Salesmen typically want to get you to pay as much as possible for what they're selling. (Not all, but many.) But even if a lot of different kinds of salesmen do it, it's still sleazy business.

[andrzej5914]

The concern is that they misrepresent the value of some of the art in order to convince people that they're getting a good deal, when they're really overpaying. Of course, it's not that much different from what a lot of car salesmen or jewelry vendors in the port cities do. Salesmen typically want to get you to pay as much as possible for what they're selling. (Not all, but many.) But even if a lot of different kinds of salesmen do it, it's still sleazy business.

 

It may very well be, but we face that situation every day. As you stated, a car salesperson, the local market, the weekly farmers market promoting organic food but it really comes from the same farms as the major market gets their stuff from, etc., etc., etc.

 

Could we have saved some money by not buying our Hummer at the local dealership and instead take a drive up to Tampa? Yes we could have, as I found out later, but the decision to buy the car was ours and ours only. At that moment we felt we were getting a good deal and we decided to go with it. It was good enough for us. We could have saved ~$1K by going up to Tampa. So should I be upset with the local dealership for trying to get more $ out of me for the same product that another dealership was offering?

 

NO, we made the decision and we went with it. Nobody forced us to walk through that door on that particular Saturday morning a year ago.

 

That's all I'm saying. If you believe it's a rip off, or a store is overpriced, or the restaurant is lousy but still charges high $, then stay away. Nobody is forcing anybody to attend these auctions nor frequent the stores or restaurants.

 

Whatever their tactics are, as shady as they may be, are still not being forced on you. Just don't walk through that door.

[Paul65]

So should I be upset with the local dealership for trying to get more $ out of me for the same product that another dealership was offering?

 

I would suggest that if they lied to you to get you to buy it at a higher price, then yes, you should be upset with them. Just my opinion.

[andrzej5914]

I would suggest that if they lied to you to get you to buy it at a higher price, then yes, you should be upset with them. Just my opinion.

 

Nobody lied, it was just that Tampa dealership was willing to go down more in price to get rid of some extra inventory. The Sarasota dealership did not have a "fake window sticker", so they didn't lie, it just that they were not willing to go lower than the bargained price. The sticker prices were exactly the same.

 

PW may tell you their offerings are good investments, cheaper than the street prices, etc. It's up to you to know and recognize that fact and if you don't agree, don't attend.

 

Once again, nobody is forcing anybody to attend, just like nobody made us sign on the dotted line at the dealership. It was OUR choice.

[Rowtyd]

.....We could have saved ~$1K by going up to Tampa....

 

Yep, shoulda drove to Tampa.:D

[klingoncruiser]

Good to see those sharks get caught. However I bet the cruise lines will NOT throw them off.

[Paul65]

Nobody lied, it was just that Tampa dealership was willing to go down more in price to get rid of some extra inventory. The Sarasota dealership did not have a "fake window sticker", so they didn't lie, it just that they were not willing to go lower than the bargained price. The sticker prices were exactly the same.

 

That was my point. There's a difference between that and paying higher because of dishonest tactics. Many people feel that the art auctions employ dishonest tactics. Doesn't sound like you agree, but still, that is the beef that many people have with them.

[grod19]

if they weren't making money they wouldn't be on the ship so someone is buying. why is it the courts job to protect people that don't do their research and over pay? If you are willing to buy my 10 dollar bill for 20 bucks I'll sell to you all day long.

[Paul65]

if they weren't making money they wouldn't be on the ship so someone is buying. why is it the courts job to protect people that don't do their research and over pay? If you are willing to buy my 10 dollar bill for 20 bucks I'll sell to you all day long.

 

The suit wasn't about things being overpriced, it was about defamation. If you didn't read the article, I'll post and excerpt:

 

The Registry has been a vocal critic of Park West, posting articles that said it defrauded unsuspecting customers during auctions on cruise ships, the news outlet notes. The criticism prompted Park West to sue the Registry for defamation in 2008, alleging a smear campaign, but the Registry countersued, charging it was Park West doing the smearing. The Free Press reports that, among other things, the Registry said Park West had created Web sites with names similar to the Registry's to divert readers. The Registry said those Web sites made disparaging remarks about the Registry.

In another story on the verdict, Crain's Detroit Business notes Park West currently faces eight state and federal lawsuits from art buyers claiming fraud and violations of consumer protection laws.

 

So, this suit is about the spat between Park West and a website that has been critical of them, and Park West struck first with a lawsuit and were hit with a counter-punch.

 

But saying "I overpaid" is a bit different from claiming fraud. That's more like you charging $20 for your $10 bill based on a false claim that it was signed by Alexander Hamilton, himself.

[bamelin]

I think the point alot of people are trying to make ... since the art auctioneers are on the ship, approved by RCCI, one would expect them to be representing the art they sell legitimately.

 

It's really not hard to understand. Sure it's the buyers decision whether or not to purchase the art, but the buyer should not have to be playing a guessing game as to whether or not RCCI's authorized seller of artwork is trying to scam them. Really though the big question as I see it is this ... is way overcharging for the art a "scam" or is it "par the course" for everything you buy on cruise ships?

[fastscot]

Caveat Emptor applies to whatever you buy from whatever source but I see the biggest problem with art auctions is that most casual attendees at the art auctions don't know the true value of fine art and haven't researched any prices prior to the cruise. I have gone to many art auctions on board and have never bought anything from Park West - I felt they were always trying to push the more expensive pieces as well as trying to push Rembrandts and other classics at 5 figure prices! Do they really think your average cruiser is going to drop that kind of money on a piece of art? Collectors who understand and relish classic works of art are not going to buy their pieces on a cruise ship! I have bought a few art works on Princess cruises - they run their own show (not Park West) and always throw in a few bargains to get the auction going. I once bought a large framed work by a well known and collectible artist for around a couple hundred dollars and when I received the delivery they had sent an artists proof (more valuable) since they had obviously run out of editions. The problem is not so much the art auctions - the problem is Park West.

[Mack2]

I don't know... I rather enjoy the art I've purchased on cruises over the years.

 

I don't consider myself an expert, but I have visited private galleries outside of the whole "auction" atmosphere, seen seriographs, giclees, and originals on canvas from the same artists represented on the ships through Park West... and I think I got a good value aboard the ships.

 

Don't think it's just Park West that represents these artists' expensive posters. Princess Cruises does it as well... privately... they don't use Park West, but they hawk the same crap.

 

There's a gallery near me that hosts Peter Max once or twice a year... you can get Peter to sign your artwork for you, talk with him, etc... line is usually ridiculous.

 

the catch? You have to have art purchased from the the Gallery (although Peter has been known to sign stuff not purchased from the Gallery)

Friggin' prints are 20%-30% more expensive from the land-based gallery than on the "auction" from Park West or Princess.

 

Needless to say, I have a camera phone picture of Peter Max from the outside of the gallery. Ooooo!

 

 

I like to think I've done my research. Even on eBay. Cruise "auction" prices for the small stuff is reasonable... The Kinkades are reasonable, I did get a deal on a Bellet. If I were to go to Disney, and try to get a Williamson from the Disney Fine Art website to match another piece I got aboard the Magic... I'd be paying a lot more than what I got the one piece for.

 

When it comes to the Dali's, Rembrandt's, and other "high end" stuff...

One word.

Ugly.

Wouldn't dream of buying the print made from the etching. They're ugly.

Why pay a lot of money for ugly? I won't enjoy it.

 

this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EMILE-BELLET-LRG-GICLEE-PAINTING-CANVAS-VIOLINIST-/390176708537?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad85817b9

 

I purchased a similar piece on a cruise... same size, giclee on canvas with hand embellishment from the artist... 1/3 of the price of this guy on ebay.

I DID have to send it back to Park West, because there was packaging stuck to paint (got pressed on during shipping) but they fixed it and returned it to me.

 

I like it. I probably won't sell it... I know it won't put my kids through college.

It's all about being reasonable.

 

The Dali's? Ugly watercolor prints? Ridiculous price?

not reasonable.

[mohendry]

We, for the first time, purchased a seriagraph (sp) on Voyage of the Seas on Feb. 13, 2010. We have not received it yet. How long does it usually take. I have sent them an email, but I just get back an email stating that someone would contact me but so far, no one has. Can I reverse this charge on my credit card?

[mohendry]

Can anyone tell me the approximate time it takes to receive art work from Park West purchased onboard. I bought and paid for art work onboard the Voyager of the Seas on Feb. 13 and have not received it.

[Stevesan]

I've been saying this for years. I am an art major and I knew all along that most of what they sell at exhorbitant prices can be had online for a tiny fraction of that. Has nothing to do with one's taste in art, just that you're getting ripped off. High time someone did something about it. Sorry RCCL and other lines, time you put some other vender on board. And I'm sure they got their cut of all that too. See...I don't always cheer for my line.:cool:

 

Typically 20%.

[enidcruiser]

Can anyone tell me the approximate time it takes to receive art work from Park West purchased onboard. I bought and paid for art work onboard the Voyager of the Seas on Feb. 13 and have not received it.

 

We got off the Freedom on Feb 7th and we still have not received our 3 picures yet. We wonder too.

[Cruzin-K]

We, for the first time, purchased a seriagraph (sp) on Voyage of the Seas on Feb. 13, 2010. We have not received it yet. How long does it usually take. I have sent them an email, but I just get back an email stating that someone would contact me but so far, no one has. Can I reverse this charge on my credit card?

 

I got off the Serenade on April 17 and just received my lithographs (rolled up in a tube) last week. I haven't received my framed paintings yet. I think six to eight weeks is what I was told on board. Why don't you call them? I can go look up the number if you need it.

[Cruzin-K]

I got off the Serenade on April 17 and just received my lithographs (rolled up in a tube) last week. I haven't received my framed paintings yet. I think six to eight weeks is what I was told on board. Why don't you call them? I can go look up the number if you need it.

 

I just checked my invoices and they say to allow up to 10 weeks for delivery. The Park West phone number is 877 440 0630.