Azura - Which Market?

[RJChatsworth]

Having travelled a number of times on P&O I have some understanding of the potential market for each ship, but I'm still not clear about Azura. According to an Agent at the inauguration of Ventura it was largely for the under 40's with children. Azura seemed to be going that way a year or so ago but, unless I'm mistaken, the emphasis seemed to change a little to be more like Aurora/Oriana and the decor seemed to suggest that when I went on it during the recent ship's visits.

 

When onboard, as I mentioned in another thread, a ship's visit representative from P&O told me Azura was to take 120 children as against 600-800 for Ventura. In the thread I said I could not vouch for these figures. Elsewhere LibraLasse41 said she'd e-mailed a contact in P&O and that person had said the number of children was the same for both ships. LibraLasse41 said she'd put me straight but I didn't hear from her on the original thread. LibraLasse41 had also observed that Azura, unlike Ventura, had no indoor cinema and no indoor pool so there was less for kids to do which might be taken as a pointer that fewer children were allowed onboard. This coupled with the fact there is an outdoor cinema across an outdoor swimming pool. Is swimming restricted when the cinema is showing?

 

Then there is the question of Oriana's age, and is Azura seen as a medium term replacement for Oriana's loyal but perhaps older following?

 

So does anyone know, please, what the marketing strategy is for Azura, particularly as different P&O representatives seem to give different answers? Maybe someone can enlighten me or perhaps those currently sailing on Azura can.

[ovccruiser]

Certainly on a recent cruise on Artemis and watching the promo on Azura, eloquently spoken by Lawrence Llewelyn Bowen, there was not much mention on childrens activities, but more, certainly, aimed at adult pleasure and pampering. I certainly had the impression that Azura was the same shape as Ventura outside but completely differnt under the skin. I may have taken the prome incorrectly.

[cclarke12]

I think in terms of the market it partly depends on the time of year. We have just come back from Ventura and there were c200 children on board (mostly pre-schoolers, but some older ones as it coincided with the second week of Easter school holidays). However, what surprised me was the huge number of much older passengers (70+), many of whom had bagged a bargain break for £699 (indeed one couple were paying to stay on for another 2 weeks - it is good value full board accommodation, with cheap drinks and entertainment thrown in). I had thought the ship would have a much younger feel, but in reality outside of school holidays there are always going to far fewer children. We were advised that the ship had a younger feel/customer base in the school holidays, Caribbean sailings and on the week-long cruises. Ventura is still the ship they will target at families because the fares will probably be lower than Azura, e.g. for Caribbean there are bigger child discounts on Ventura than Azura.

 

Ventura does not have a cinema it shows films in the theatre, so I guess Azura would so the same. I had assumed Azura would be similar to Ventura with one covered pool. Apart from that, all the pictures I have seen look the same apart from the colours. A couple of people have commented on decor being more conservative than Ventura, but I thought Ventura was pretty conservative compared with RCI or NCL.

 

Azura will still attract lots of families with children and I am sure P&O are expecting children or they would not have built such large facilities (the same size as on Ventura). Indeed we have just booked for May school holidays in 2011 as they are offering 90% child discounts. However, I get the impression that outside of holidays Azura will be quieter than Ventura because they will try and pitch Ventura fares lower to attract families.

 

At the end of the day I tend to think that it is all marketing spin and P&O are just trying to make it sound like a very different ship in the wake of Ventura's bad publicity (which is now certainly unjustified given my recent experience on board).

[tom_uk]

The children's clubs on Azura have the same capacity as those on Ventura, and in the 2011-12 brochure Azura is described as a 'family friendly larger ship'. So the two ships are indeed very similar.

 

But there are plenty of other things P&O can do to influence the extent to which families - i.e. those with children - actually do buy cruises on Azura. For example, the 3rd & 4th person rate: this is the proportion of the full adult rate that the 3rd and 4th occupants of a twin cabin have to pay. It's assumed that in most cases these 3rd & 4th occupants are children, of course. Now, I haven't checked the figures, but if P&O really wanted to make a difference between Azura & Ventura then you would expect to see different (higher) 3rd & 4th occupant rates for Azura during the school holidays than on Ventura. On the other hand, if the rates are the same then that would suggest that P&O are as happy to have families with children on Azura as on Ventura.

[LibraLass41]

Hello RJC

 

Sorry I didn't find your thread comment again to ''put you straight'' lol. on child numbers, but YES I did email my contact at P&O in Promotions and Media whom I met at the Azura naming Cermeony and he did confirm your figures were wrong and that Azura's child numbers were the same as Ventura (which Debbie suspected).

 

BUT: Azura is indeed promoted differently than Ventura, with the emphasis on Azura of 'a designer boutique hotel' which to me doesn't sound like a particularly child friendly ship does it?

I have infront of me 2 Azura booklets/brochures...and in one of them, Azura 'The story Continues' printed and sent out late last year to entice punters there is hardly any mention of children and no photos of the childrens facilities, it starts with a photo of a couple in formal wear embracing on the deck, and mentions 'chic stylish bars', and 'truly grown-up delights' This is cont'd over the pages about The Retreat - 'a tranquil haven oozing style and luxury', and follows with info on Ollys Glass House and Atul's 'Sindhu Indian restaurant - hardly 'come on kids this is for you' stuff....Infact nothing is mentioned about kiddies and whats there for them, although we all know this is still a family ship with a childrens club and nursery tucked away at one part of the ship.

As someone who has now been on both ships, I would say Ventura is being targeted and marketed for families and Azura not so - but they are the same ship , but as the opening words say 'no 2 sisters are the same'

 

Regards

Sue

[cclarke12]

Hello RJC

 

Sorry I didn't find your thread comment again to ''put you straight'' lol. on child numbers, but YES I did email my contact at P&O in Promotions and Media whom I met at the Azura naming Cermeony and he did confirm your figures were wrong and that Azura's child numbers were the same as Ventura (which Debbie suspected).

 

BUT: Azura is indeed promoted differently than Ventura, with the emphasis on Azura of 'a designer boutique hotel' which to me doesn't sound like a particularly child friendly ship does it?

I have infront of me 2 Azura booklets/brochures...and in one of them, Azura 'The story Continues' printed and sent out late last year to entice punters there is hardly any mention of children and no photos of the childrens facilities, it starts with a photo of a couple in formal wear embracing on the deck, and mentions 'chic stylish bars', and 'truly grown-up delights' This is cont'd over the pages about The Retreat - 'a tranquil haven oozing style and luxury', and follows with info on Ollys Glass House and Atul's 'Sindhu Indian restaurant - hardly 'come on kids this is for you' stuff....Infact nothing is mentioned about kiddies and whats there for them, although we all know this is still a family ship with a childrens club and nursery tucked away at one part of the ship.

As someone who has now been on both ships, I would say Ventura is being targeted and marketed for families and Azura not so - but they are the same ship , but as the opening words say 'no 2 sisters are the same'

 

Regards

Sue

 

But what I can't get my head round is that the bars look exactly the same, yet they are saying it is a different ship. The Red Bar on Venura, has now just been turned into the Blue Bar etc. I can't remember the name of the other bars but from the pictures people have posted there is an equivalent to Havana on Ventura (again exactly same decor but different colour stripes!), and to the Metropolis bar which has a screen showing city scenes, now changed to natural wonders of the world etc on Azura. Even the Indian Resturant looks almost the same as the East resturant on Ventura.

 

For those that haven't sailed on Ventura I think they might see it as being something different. However, having been on Ventura I can see it is the same facilities (except the spa) and I would have no concerns taking children on as I know that the Youth Team are just superb and if there are fewer children on board but still the same amount of space as they have on Ventura, then that's an even bigger bonus for us. One thing I noticed on Ventutra was lots of families of three generations on holiday together, and I think Ventura and Azura are probably very good for that type of holiday (but it does mean they are trying to be all things to all people, which some won't like).

 

The difference and correct me if I am wrong on this, will be the more formal dress code on Azura (i.e. not just smart casual or formal) and this may well shape the target market.

[Pink-belle]

I have no idea regarding market strategies etc, but as a customer this is how I see it, and why I choose to book Azura for this summer.

 

Most cruise ships actually have good child facilities and families are made welcome. To me Ventura and Oceana actually advertise to attract families, with the promise of Noddy (is Mr Bump still mentioned?) Scalectrix and circus school plus Rockband(on Ventura). The dress code being formal and smart casual suggests a more laid back approach.

 

Azura provides the same excellent amenities in the kids clubs, but I have seen no mention of Noddy. Dress code is Formal, semi formal and smart casual.

 

We usually sail Princess, and their ships also welcome families, but to be honest you rarely see them, I am told their kids clubs are also excellent and the children choose to spend their time there. I am not against children on cruise ships but personally prefer a less in your face family approach. Due to my husbands job we have to cruise during school holidays, The opportunity to be able to access an Adult only area ( the retreat) is also something that appealed to us.

 

I have no idea how P&O will run Seascreen, MUTS on Princess, often shows music concerts during the day or family friendly films, the pool remains open during this time. In the evening it shows feature films and the pool is closed. Plus they place padded dry covers on the sunbeds and give you blankets if required.

 

I hope Azura lives up to our expectations we will then cruise more often with P&O. I haven't read any grumbles yet. Azura is wifi over the whole ship, and access to the P&O site including community is Free, there has been a live from thread which was good, and I am sure anyone who was unhappy would have found time to post :)

[tom_uk]

Having now looked at the 'Family Saver' rates next summer for both Azura and Ventura, it looks as if the amount charged for children during the main summer holiday period will be a bit less on Ventura than on Azura. So in that sense Ventura is indeed a little more family-friendly than Azura. But the differences aren't going to be huge. (Less important than the fact that rates in Europe are higher generally on Azura than on Ventura).

[kevinyork]

Well I still remain confused. It feels to me as though a team have initially conceived that Azura will be for couples and experienced cruisers and has at some stage bottled it and realised they cannot exclude a large market. This has led to the mixed interpretations people have of the ship and could lead to dissapointment for some if the ship doesnt match up to the image customers have of it when booking. I really hope this isnt a case of them trying to hype up Azura as offering a new experience when in fact it is Ventura II.

 

Why have exactly the same facilities as Ventura and yet not target the sector of the market that will use those facilities. It doesnt make sense to me and I believe there will be a rethink within a year.

[RJChatsworth]

Well I still remain confused. It feels to me as though a team have initially conceived that Azura will be for couples and experienced cruisers and has at some stage bottled it and realised they cannot exclude a large market. This has led to the mixed interpretations people have of the ship and could lead to dissapointment for some if the ship doesnt match up to the image customers have of it when booking. I really hope this isnt a case of them trying to hype up Azura as offering a new experience when in fact it is Ventura II.

 

Why have exactly the same facilities as Ventura and yet not target the sector of the market that will use those facilities. It doesnt make sense to me and I believe there will be a rethink within a year.

 

Your comments are interesting. Some 16 months ago we were on the first leg of a World Cruise and the Captain, during his speech at the Portunus Club Party, likened Azura to Ventura. A sudden groan went up, from the predominantly grey-haired crowd and those with much time on their hands, which stunned the Captain into silence. There were comments like, "Well, we won't be going on that then". The Captain then compounded his problems by saying, "You don't have to go on it!" More loud groans.

 

I wonder whether instances like this, the medium-term replacement of Oriana in mind, and the recession made P&O have a bit of a re-think. The recession probably meant the under 40's with kids no longer had the money to do so much cruising but the grey-haired crowd did.

 

This might be the answer to the mixed-message marketing strategy. Could someone from P&O please join in please?!!

[Rum Rat]

My own feelings are that after the launch of Ventura as the 'Butlins at Sea', down market with tons of kids activities, they had a very BIG re think because of the image it had produced. I did notice that the first advertising of Azura was very much up market, and having toured Azura, I do wonder to what extend a very, very, VERY rapid change during build was made to the decor, layout, marketing to make Azura more 'Up Market' than Butlins at Sea!!

 

Azura is beautiful and as I reported before, the ambience of Azura is that of PandO's favourite ship, Aurora, but on a much bigger scale.

 

No I have not seen Ventura. No I have not cruised on Ventura. No I have no desire to cruise on Ventura. No I do NOT have first hand knowledge of Ventura, so I CANNOT talk from experience of Ventura. My thoughts are of observations of the marketing of Ventura, and now Azura.

 

Chalk and Cheese come to mind.

.

.

[cclarke12]

My own feelings are that after the launch of Ventura as the 'Butlins at Sea', down market with tons of kids activities, they had a very BIG re think because of the image it had produced. I did notice that the first advertising of Azura was very much up market, and having toured Azura, I do wonder to what extend a very, very, VERY rapid change during build was made to the decor, layout, marketing to make Azura more 'Up Market' than Butlins at Sea!!

 

Azura is beautiful and as I reported before, the ambience of Azura is that of PandO's favourite ship, Aurora, but on a much bigger scale.

 

No I have not seen Ventura. No I have not cruised on Ventura. No I have no desire to cruise on Ventura. No I do NOT have first hand knowledge of Ventura, so I CANNOT talk from experience of Ventura. My thoughts are of observations of the marketing of Ventura, and now Azura.

 

Chalk and Cheese come to mind.

.

.

 

I think they will probably end up being quite different. But as I said in a previous post the decor for most of the lounges (based on photos taken by people at the Azura launch) indicates the internal layout and decor is pretty much the same, rather it is the colours that have changed, so from a physical perspective I fail to see much difference between the two (other than subtle changes). However, from a marketing perspective I can see they are trying to pitch it to a different market.

 

Each to their own, but as someone who has just come off Ventura I can say we found it a lovely ship, and some aspects were as good as - if not better than - our experience on Cunard which a lot of people seem to pitch as a better product. This was particularly our experience with the food.

 

I haven't been to Butlins or any other holiday camp, and I have only done a couple of package holidays in my life (other than cruises), so I don't really have anything to compare Ventura with, other than the other cruise ships we have been on.

 

I suspect with Ventura they were trying to compete with IOTS which must be the main competition out of Southampton for the family market who want a large cruise ship, but somehow it hasn't worked and it has been tarnished by poor reports early on.

[Beckyfaye-2008]

The Azura is practically the same as Ventura, having sailed on Ventura and from what I saw at the naming ceremony.

From what I can gather irrespective of what has been said by people like Carol Marlow. If you look at P&O's latest brochure, on page 21 it classes Azura as a Family Friendly larger ship, exactly the same as it classes Ventura on page 16.

It has added a retreat with its own pool for those who want to get away from the children during the day, but at a price. This is the only major difference from Ventura. It has the same children's venues but with different names.

Yes the Decor is different, but Decor is personal, so some will love the Decor others will not, I have already seen on other forums saying Azura was a bit beige, and certainly did not have the wow factor of some American ships. So for some I dont think the Decor will necessary enhance it over Ventura.

Also they appear to be doing some good deals on Azura, that I am sure will attract families.

Re the dress code on Azura for a 14 night cruise being 4 Formal, 4 Semi Formal, 6 Smart Casual, thats exactly what it was on Ventura when I sailed on her in Oct 2008, although I do know that now on Ventura it is 4 Formal 10 Smart Casual.

[catloverinhightown]

We have just returned home from the Azura's maiden voyage. There were very few children on board although as it's term time that's not surprising and as we don't have young children we can't comment on children's facilities. We have not cruised with P&O before so can't compare with other ships in the fleet:however, we are mid-50's and we were definitely well below what appeared to be the average age of the other passengers. We have cruised with RCI and NCL previously and actually preferred having children and young adults on our cruises. We can't see the problem with having children on board - what would be the reaction if any cruise company suggested limiting the number of over 70's on board a particular cruise?

Re the question about the pool/outdoor cinema screen - no, swimming was not prohibited when the films were showing as it didn 't interfere with the viewing.

Prices for the Oasis were £6 per person per half day on port days and £10 on sea days.

 

If anyone has other questions on the Azura I'd be happy to try to help.

 

Catlover

 

Catlover

[LibraLass41]

''It has added a retreat with its own pool for those who want to get away from the children during the day, but at a price. This is the only major difference from Ventura. It has the same children's venues but with different names.''

 

No, there is another MAJOR difference and this is that Ventura has a covered pool and Azura doesn't ...a big plus for Ventura and children surely is to be able to have water fun on poor cloudy weather sea days.....

 

''Re the dress code on Azura for a 14 night cruise being 4 Formal, 4 Semi Formal, 6 Smart Casual, thats exactly what it was on Ventura when I sailed on her in Oct 2008, although I do know that now on Ventura it is 4 Formal 10 Smart Casual.'' __________________

 

So the dress code is completelly different then on the 2 ships....!

[Beckyfaye-2008]

Sue

If I did not know you, I would say you are being rather pernickety;)

[Adammara]

However P&O market Azura, price for many people will be the deciding factor. Azura and Ventura are to all intents the the same, only the names of the venues have changed.

 

Looking on a high street TA's website this morning, a 7 day cruise on July 17th on Azura balcony grade is from £794, and one on Ventura the next day from £992!

 

Incidently, last week they had the same Azura balcony cabins at £617, nearly booked one!

 

Richard

[kevinyork]

However P&O market Azura, price for many people will be the deciding factor. Azura and Ventura are to all intents the the same, only the names of the venues have changed.

 

Looking on a high street TA's website this morning, a 7 day cruise on July 17th on Azura balcony grade is from £794, and one on Ventura the next day from £992!

 

Incidently, last week they had the same Azura balcony cabins at £617, nearly booked one!

 

Richard

 

I think that deal may be an exception. Looking at the wealth of deals that land in my inbox each day, there are far more for Ventura and when an Azura deal is offered it is generally a fair bit higher priced than Ventura. Im sure this is the 'new ship' factor and that after its first year the prices will equalise more.

[RJChatsworth]

We have just returned home from the Azura's maiden voyage. There were very few children on board although as it's term time that's not surprising and as we don't have young children we can't comment on children's facilities. We have not cruised with P&O before so can't compare with other ships in the fleet:however, we are mid-50's and we were definitely well below what appeared to be the average age of the other passengers. We have cruised with RCI and NCL previously and actually preferred having children and young adults on our cruises. We can't see the problem with having children on board - what would be the reaction if any cruise company suggested limiting the number of over 70's on board a particular cruise?

Re the question about the pool/outdoor cinema screen - no, swimming was not prohibited when the films were showing as it didn 't interfere with the viewing.

Prices for the Oasis were £6 per person per half day on port days and £10 on sea days.

 

If anyone has other questions on the Azura I'd be happy to try to help.

 

Catlover

 

Catlover

 

The average age might be higher on a maiden cruise 'cos I've come across many older cruisers who seem to relish the idea of going on maiden cruises and tell you how many they have been on.