Formal Night - Fashion Police Question

[Cruisin Suzin]

You know I have not even had my first cruise experience with HAL, and after reading these two threads on fashion police, I have to wonder..is there anything fun, or easy, about formal night.I understand the food is special but it better be darn good to go through all of these poking and prying eyes...I am dreading it already and I do like to dress up on occasion, but my daughter who is of a plus size will dress as she would to go out to any land based restaurant a simple black dress..

 

I think I had better stop reading these threads..it is not helping my anxiety about formal night..

[srlafleur]

bus driver would not let her on the bus until she was properly covered (put on a shirt). I was quite pleased that he requested that since it holds true to the feeling of Bermuda.

 

But what if it had not been an actual bathing suit but a tank top with shorts or skort? Would the same apply? (not that I'd be walking anywhere off a beach with just a bathing suit, myself)

Just curious.

[PennyAgain]

As cruise lines are competing hard for customers, the cruise lines that are the most adaptable to modern life will be the long term winners.

 

My husband has adopted a 'no Crystal cruise line' policy because he hates the dress codes that are enforced by PASSENGERS. Right now he sees HAL as a reasonable choice but is leaning toward Oceania.

 

This is the future. The young folks who have grown up dressing as they please are going to put an end for formal attire on cruise ships.

[Set Free]

But what if it had not been an actual bathing suit but a tank top with shorts or skort? Would the same apply? (not that I'd be walking anywhere off a beach with just a bathing suit, myself)

Just curious.

 

A tank top with shorts or a skirt IS more appropriate. It's not about the coverage. What if a man in a wetsuit came into the dining room? I do not see that as being appropriate.

[mudscraper]

As cruise lines are competing hard for customers, the cruise lines that are the most adaptable to modern life will be the long term winners.

 

My husband has adopted a 'no Crystal cruise line' policy because he hates the dress codes that are enforced by PASSENGERS. Right now he sees HAL as a reasonable choice but is leaning toward Oceania.

 

This is the future. The young folks who have grown up dressing as they please are going to put an end for formal attire on cruise ships.

Your thought on the future may be premature. I`m sure that some of HAL`s older patrons who love dressing up were once long haired, do you own thing, stick it to the Man hippies from the 1960`s. The thought of putting on a suit and tie would have caused them great angst. Look at them now.

 

 

Rich

[fann1sh]

The Fashion Police appear to be a bunch of passengers who do not like the fact cruising has become a more casual vacation. Somehow they think clothes make the person even though they have no problem being rude rude to other passengers..obviously flawed thinking on their part...

 

I'm sorry to quote your post, as this comment isn't personal. It's simply the most recent on this thread, so most convenient to quote.

 

The Fashion Police comes in more than one flavour.

 

There are those who criticize people for being too casual, and those who criticize people for being too dressy.

 

I was one of the people on Cow Princess's "Accosted by the Fashion Police" thread who posted my 80+ year old mother (with dementia) was insulted for wearing a floor length simple gown on formal night.

 

RevNeal also mentioned people have commented on his attire when dressed to code.

 

I truly am a live and let live sort, who would never, EVER speak to a stranger about how they're dressed, except to compliment them.

 

My post won't change anything. Most people here will continue to post about "fashion police", referring to not only the unspeakable minority who would actual criticize a stranger's dress :eek:.....but also, those who reply to posts asking what the dress code is, by quoting the HAL website....those who look at someone dressed casually, with what the lookee decides is a critical expression:rolleyes:....and those who simply follow the dress code, but likely have evil thoughts about those who do not:cool:.

 

What do we call the vocal and rude minority who insist because they don't want to dress up, there should be no rules anywhere on the ship, for any hour? These people seem to want to ban tuxes, ban suits, ban dresses and skirts, and ensure no one is allowed to board with anything other than swimsuit, T's and shorts!

 

I'd like to call them "NCL cruisers", since that line already has policies that fit them perfectly. But, since they are bent bound and determined to change HAL because they know nice people don't dress up, I've decided to call them "slob snobs".

 

RichNY, you are not a "slob snob", but there are others who post here who clearly fit the description.

[RevNeal]

I love the way the words..BANNED and ENFORCEMENT are being tossed around. The only people who can BAN or ENFORCE anything are the ships crew, it's that simple..

 

That's what I said. :)

 

The only reason got get BANNED from any venue is the following,

T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours.

 

I've also pointed out, in the past, that the only true hard-and-fast restriction in the Line's policy is to be found in the minimum dress for evening hours. As you correctly quoted it, it is only that tiny list of items that are anywhere stated as "not allowed" in the "restaurants or public areas" during the evening hours. The problem is that even this restrict is neither accepted and observed by passengers, nor "enforced" by the crew (i.e. by way of refusing service to those who violate it). One will see plenty of people "out and about" in shorts, particularly on warm-weather cruises. Sometimes (on rare occasion) you'll even see them in the MDR on Formal Night! :rolleyes:

 

Even for formal night the code sounds more like a suggestion since HAL uses the word usually. The words expected, suggested or required do not appear in the dress code..This code is a lot more liberal than many of the lines I have experienced..

 

Correct. It is usually understood, however, that the language is articulated in this way so as to be "polite" and positive rather than harsh and negative. It is similar to when a superior officer in the military -- or one's boss in civilian work -- uses "please" when issuing an order. "Commander Neal, please report to the Captain's port side cabin." This is not a request just because "please" is found in the syntax. Similarly, when Copper says "Please step out of the car, sir." He is not requesting that you do so, he is issuing you an order that you are expected to obey. It's phrased in the social-polite mode, but it is nevertheless an order. In general, this is the nature of the syntax in the HAL dress code. The line gives suggestions and by way of examples articulates the kind of clothing they expect us to wear on Formal Nights. They expect us to be mature enough to know how to behave without having to be policed or compelled with forceful language. Once upon a time they were correct.

 

The Fashion Police appear to be a bunch of passengers who do not like the fact cruising has become a more casual vacation. Somehow they think clothes make the person even though they have no problem being rude rude to other passengers..obviously flawed thinking on their part...

 

If passengers want to dress up thats great just don't expect HAL to enforce YOUR perception of the dress code..Just let the crew do their job, they are trying to make ALL the passengers happy...

 

In general I agree with you in all particulars save one: also found among those "fashion police" (a label sometimes applied to me) are those who simply want to enjoy the product the Line has sold them in their marketing ... i.e. a shipboard experience where, twice a week, one can expect to enjoy an evening where everybody is dressed up in at least some approximation of the culture's formalwear. Additionally, on the rest of the week's evenings the Line has lead them to believe that they're going to be able to enjoy an environment where everybody is well-behaved and nicely-dressed with at least some degree of elegant style. When those members of the so-called "Fashion Police" perceive themselves to not be getting this environment, they grumble and their grumbling is often interpreted as "passing judgement upon those who are not dressed appropriately," but in fact it's usually just an expression of disappointment that they're not getting what they bought. They've bought a degree of make-believe-snoot on two nights a week, and on five nights a week they've bought what is supposed to be a refined, respectful, elegant, "smart casual" environment. Is it any wonder they're disappointed when they discover that what they've bought is a ship with people dressing as if they're on their way to McDonald's ... with table cloths, stemware, and Rosenthal China thrown in to further jumble up the visual/environmental fruit salad?? That's how it "feels" to them.

 

In my opinion, those of us who fall into this camp are either not being realistic relative to the cultural changes of the past several decades, or we're simply being too overly sensitive to our surroundings.

[sparky-elpaso]

You know I have not even had my first cruise experience with HAL, and after reading these two threads on fashion police, I have to wonder..is there anything fun, or easy, about formal night.I understand the food is special but it better be darn good to go through all of these poking and prying eyes...I am dreading it already and I do like to dress up on occasion, but my daughter who is of a plus size will dress as she would to go out to any land based restaurant a simple black dress..

 

I think I had better stop reading these threads..it is not helping my anxiety about formal night..

 

Don't worry. Her simple black dress will be fine. I'm kind of plus size and my formal night outfit is black chiffon evening pants with a black tank and jacket with a glittery gold and silver design.

 

DH wears dress slacks, shirt, tie and sport coat.

 

I think you'll like HAL. We had a great time on our Caribbean cruise in March. The food was very good as were the shows, etc.

[fann1sh]

As cruise lines are competing hard for customers, the cruise lines that are the most adaptable to modern life will be the long term winners.

 

My husband has adopted a 'no Crystal cruise line' policy because he hates the dress codes that are enforced by PASSENGERS. Right now he sees HAL as a reasonable choice but is leaning toward Oceania.

 

This is the future. The young folks who have grown up dressing as they please are going to put an end for formal attire on cruise ships.

 

I absolutely agree cruising is changing. I see a different scenario for the future.

 

I think travellers outside North America are going to cruise more.

 

Right now, the cruise lines are straddling, offering more exotic itineraries that begin and end in Asia, the Middle East, and the Seychelles, but marketing them mainly to North Americans. I think those itineraries will eventually see a majority of non North American passengers.

 

If that happens, the dress code will have nothing to do with what's going on in North America. It will be reflect the sensibilities of a brand new majority.

[Cruisin Suzin]

Don't worry. Her simple black dress will be fine. I'm kind of plus size and my formal night outfit is black chiffon evening pants with a black tank and jacket with a glittery gold and silver design.

 

DH wears dress slacks, shirt, tie and sport coat.

 

I think you'll like HAL. We had a great time on our Caribbean cruise in March. The food was very good as were the shows, etc.

 

 

Thanks for the reply but she will not wear chiffon, etc..but what she will wear is something comfortable, plain, I may convince her to wear some accessories, but that would be the extent of it...

 

If you don't have anything nice to say you should say nothing at all that is my motto...what does it gain you to insult a complete stranger, say in an elevator, a hallway. Nothing except some perceived notion of I'm right your wrong. And who made them the "regulators" it should be left up to the crew...the rest can and should in my opinion talk among themselves..:(. Doesn't seem like a very happy night..with the regulators on the lookout for the offenders.

[LindaM]

Holland America Cruise Line.

While not what I would wear on Smart Casual Night, it's within the limits outlined by the Dress Code.

 

I understand that this is HAL's decision. When we go to Alaska (with your friend Ruth) in August, we will probably see people in the MDR in jeans. Maybe even me????? (That will be one for the books, but it's possible.)

 

The post "pushed my buttons" because I had just gone toe to toe with the person you were replying to. She was advising people that athletic shoes and jeans were acceptable in the MDR. I felt it was irresponsible to give out that kind of advice to a new cruiser. Then, I found out on this thread, that poster doesn't even eat in the MDR, and on the rare times she does, it's NOT in jeans!!

 

People can dress however they want, within the HAL guidelines. I feel it is a huge mistake to advise people they CAN wear jeans, just because it's acceptable to HAL. We also need to tell them that if they do wear jeans, they will probably stick out like a sore thumb (hopefully!!).

 

In my lifetime, people have gone from dressing to travel on a jet and dressing to attend church services. Recently, I have seen people in a nice restaurant in bermuda length jeans!! It annoys me to no end that now I have to see this while on my cruise vacation!! I was brought up by a woman (who is approaching 87.)who has NEVER worn jeans. Her casual outfit is a khaki or denim skirt, with a smart shirt. She has been asked if she still works, because she looks wonderful at all times. That is why I don't "get" this acceptance of jeans in the MDR!! And, I don't think it's "old fashioned". Those of us who feel this way need to stick together to encourage respectable dress on HAL!!

[RichNY]

I'm sorry to quote your post, as this comment isn't personal. It's simply the most recent on this thread, so most convenient to quote.

 

The Fashion Police comes in more than one flavour.

 

There are those who criticize people for being too casual, and those who criticize people for being too dressy.

 

I was one of the people on Cow Princess's "Accosted by the Fashion Police" thread who posted my 80+ year old mother (with dementia) was insulted for wearing a floor length simple gown on formal night.

 

RevNeal also mentioned people have commented on his attire when dressed to code.

 

I truly am a live and let live sort, who would never, EVER speak to a stranger about how they're dressed, except to compliment them.

 

My post won't change anything. Most people here will continue to post about "fashion police", referring to not only the unspeakable minority who would actual criticize a stranger's dress :eek:.....but also, those who reply to posts asking what the dress code is, by quoting the HAL website....those who look at someone dressed casually, with what the lookee decides is a critical expression:rolleyes:....and those who simply follow the dress code, but likely have evil thoughts about those who do not:cool:.

 

What do we call the vocal and rude minority who insist because they don't want to dress up, there should be no rules anywhere on the ship, for any hour? These people seem to want to ban tuxes, ban suits, ban dresses and skirts, and ensure no one is allowed to board with anything other than swimsuit, T's and shorts!

 

I'd like to call them "NCL cruisers", since that line already has policies that fit them perfectly. But, since they are bent bound and determined to change HAL because they know nice people don't dress up, I've decided to call them "slob snobs".

 

RichNY, you are not a "slob snob", but there are others who post here who clearly fit the description.

 

 

Contrary to popular belief there are similar dress codes on NCL...Their Formal nights are optional and passengers do wear tuxedos and gowns..The vast majority dress resort casual. Certain attire, like Hals rules are not allowed and are enforced..Occasionally some passengers. will get into the dining room without the proper attire but they are few and far between...

 

I have sailed on many NCL cruises ranging from trans Atlantic cruises to short 5 nighters and I can count probably on two hands the number "Dress Code Violations " I have whitnessed..

 

HALER's like to dump on NCL but I would be willing to bet they have never been on a NCL ship or they believe some of the self serving gibberish they read on CC..

[RevNeal]

You know I have not even had my first cruise experience with HAL, and after reading these two threads on fashion police, I have to wonder..is there anything fun, or easy, about formal night.I understand the food is special but it better be darn good to go through all of these poking and prying eyes...I am dreading it already and I do like to dress up on occasion, but my daughter who is of a plus size will dress as she would to go out to any land based restaurant a simple black dress..

 

I think I had better stop reading these threads..it is not helping my anxiety about formal night..

 

Please do not be concerned. Firstly, there really are not that many "poking" eyes ... My mental image of that description comes from the Bugs Bunny cartoons where the caracters eyes will sometimes extend out of their eye sockets in shock at what you're seeing. Please trust me, you will see very little of this kind thing.

 

Please have no concern for your daughter. I'm on the large size, so is my mother, and so are my friends, and they all look great in simple black dresses. As one friend says, you can't go wrong with a black dress and a little bling. :)

 

As for fun things to do on formal nights ... Wow, there are usually lots of things going on on formal nights. On longer cruises one will be the black and white formal night, with the Captain's Black and White Ball. That's usually a great social mixer when passengers get to meet the ships officers, etc. These dances are especially nice now that the ship has more female officers ... Well, for guys, at least. There are other special dances that often take place on formal nights, and there are cocktail parties with the captain, etc., to enjoy. The ships cast usually has a special performance that night, too. For me, however, few things make a formal night more special than to retire from the MDR to the explorer's lounge for drinks and classical music, followed by a dance in the crows nest at the captains black and white ball, followed by more drinks and hours of conversation with newly-made and long-time friends on topics ranging far and wide. I'm a people-person, and that's what makes formal nights especially fun for me.

[serendipity1499]

[LindaM Shame on HAL!! I guess it's the Carnival influence! I wish I wouldn't have looked at this --I am disgusted!! ( On Prinsendam in Sept., people dressed as if they had some class , meaning NO jeans in the MDR.)

 

Yes HAL does permit jeans in the MDR & if someone wore them it would never impact my enjoyment of my cruise, even If I did not wear them..When you go to Alaska, you will see many folks in the MDR in Jeans..

So the person who told the new cruiser it was OK to wear Jeans was correct, contrary to what you want to believe..You can't foster your opinion on others, when the cruise line asates otherwise...

 

I don't understand what you mean about the Carnival infuluence? HAL which is an autonomous Company has been under the Carnival Corp. PLC Umbrella since 1989..We've never been on Carnival, but know that they do have a dress code similar to HAL's..

 

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/FAQs/Dining_Room_Dress_Requirements.aspx

 

Quote:

Is there a dress code for the dining room?

Depending on the length of the cruise, either formal dress or casual resort wear is required in the Dining Room. The dress requirement for children is the same. For those not wanting to dress up, the Lido restaurants are open nightly (with the exception of the last evening of the cruise), and have a casual dress code. However, shirts and shoes/footwear (flip-flops) must be worn at all times inside the Lido restaurants.

Cruise Casual Dining Dress Code: Gentlemen - Sport slacks, khakis, jeans (no cut-offs), dress shorts (long), collared sport shirts; Ladies - Casual dresses, casual skirts or pants and blouses, summer dresses, Capri pants, dress shorts, jeans (no cut-offs).

Not permitted in the dining room during the Cruise Casual dinner for ladies and gentlemen: gym shorts, basketball shorts, beach flip-flops, bathing suit attire, cut-off jeans, sleeveless shirts for men and baseball hats.

Cruise Elegant Dining Dress Code: Gentlemen - Dress slacks, dress shirts. We also suggest a sport coat. If you wish to wear suits and ties or tuxedos, by all means we invite you to do so. Ladies - Cocktail dresses, pantsuits, elegant skirts and blouses; if you‘d like to show off your evening gowns, that's great too! Not permitted in the dining room during the Cruise Elegant dinner for ladies and gentlemen: shorts, T-shirts, beach flip-flops, bathing suit attire, jeans, cut-off jeans, sleeveless shirts for men, sportswear, and baseball hats. Unquote

 

 

Contrary to popular belief there are similar dress codes on NCL...Their Formal nights are optional and passengers do wear tuxedos and gowns..The vast majority dress resort casual. Certain attire, like Hals rules are not allowed and are enforced..Occasionally some passengers. will get into the dining room without the proper attire but they are few and far between...

 

I have sailed on many NCL cruises ranging from trans Atlantic cruises to short 5 nighters and I can count probably on two hands the number "Dress Code Violations " I have whitnessed..

 

HALER's like to dump on NCL but I would be willing to bet they have never been on a NCL ship or they believe some of the self serving gibberish they read on CC..

 

Rich like you I have sailed on NCL & don't understand & am quite insulted by those who suggest that NCL is sailed by the poor, underdressed & uneducated hick..

Most NCL Psgrs are dressed as well as HAL psgrs in the MDR..As a matter of fact, on our last NCL Crown Cruise in 2005, I wore the same outfits I wore on several of my HAL cruises, with the exception of long chiffon gowns, skirts & DH's TUX..In addition we've sailed on Oceania, & I wore the same smart casual clothes included plain long black skirts w/pretty tops.. Most Psgrs..were beautifully dressed on both lines..Only once or twice did we someone who was not up to code..

 

BTW Rich..HAL's dress code uses the word "suggested"

"In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening. ".

 

Cheers....:)Betty

[iancal]

We have sailed, and continue to sail, on HAL, Celebrity, Princess, NCL, Carnival and RCI

 

The implied notion by some posters on this board that cruising on a Carnival or NCL ship speaks volumes about those cruisers. This is absolutely not the case. In fact it, speaks volumes about the people who make these comments-starting with insecurity.

[Cruisin Suzin]

Please do not be concerned. Firstly, there really are not that many "poking" eyes ... My mental image of that description comes from the Bugs Bunny cartoons where the caracters eyes will sometimes extend out of their eye sockets in shock at what you're seeing. Please trust me, you will see very little of this kind thing.

 

Please have no concern for your daughter. I'm on the large size, so is my mother, and so are my friends, and they all look great in simple black dresses. As one friend says, you can't go wrong with a black dress and a little bling. :)

 

As for fun things to do on formal nights ... Wow, there are usually lots of things going on on formal nights. On longer cruises one will be the black and white formal night, with the Captain's Black and White Ball. That's usually a great social mixer when passengers get to meet the ships officers, etc. These dances are especially nice now that the ship has more female officers ... Well, for guys, at least. There are other special dances that often take place on formal nights, and there are cocktail parties with the captain, etc., to enjoy. The ships cast usually has a special performance that night, too. For me, however, few things make a formal night more special than to retire from the MDR to the explorer's lounge for drinks and classical music, followed by a dance in the crows nest at the captains black and white ball, followed by more drinks and hours of conversation with newly-made and long-time friends on topics ranging far and wide. I'm a people-person, and that's what makes formal nights especially fun for me.

 

 

Thanks for the reply, it was beginning to feel like a cartoon to me...the evening you describe would suit me to a tee! My daughter would hang with me for one drink and to make sure I was in good company, and go back to the cabin to read..I am the people person, and I love to dress up, lounge, dance,and meet new people..love classical music, jazz etc. But I am the single one, she likes the alone time..Perhaps if I like this HAL cruise, I will take a longer cruise and dance the night away at that Black and White Ball.....thanks. What length of cruise would that happen on BTW.

[IRL_Joanie]

I don't think you would have any problems going to ANY lounge without a jacket and tie. If you are going to put on a pair of shorts and a wife beater then you might:D.

I agree with you lorekauf on your reply to the OP. I just want to find out what piece of clothing is meant by wife beater?? I've not heard that reference before, so am just curious...

 

Joanie

[fann1sh]

RichNY - I see you focussed only on my offhand mention of NCL, and not the meat of my post:

 

Those who prefer to see dress codes abolished are just as often "fashion police", and just as horribly rude as those who'd like to see them remain.

 

There is no excuse for accosting a 80+ year old woman, clearly dependent on her family, and trying to ruin their evening with malicious words. IMO, no action by the so called "fashion police" exceeds the gall of this particular "slob snob".

 

Does anyone here maintain otherwise?

I'm well aware NCL has many cruisers who dress formally, nothing "down market" about the line, dress codes that request no shorts in most dining rooms in the evening, etc. I cited it merely because it's a line without an official formal night, just "Dress Up or Not".

 

Perhaps I should have referred to Oceania, or Carnival, or...well any line that doesn't have formal nights (yes, Carnival has Cruise Elegant -- just not formal.)

 

Much of the cruising public is oblivious to the policies of different lines. But, CCer's generally know who has formal nights, who doesn't, and what the dress code minimum would be. When savvy cruisers book HAL for itinerary, price, timing or whatever, they know what they're getting into.

 

So don't whine about the parts you don't like!

 

Dress code not what you want? Suck it up. I wish HAL had the same (non) smoking policy as Celebrity, but you will never, EVER hear me whining about it.

 

First time cruisers, those new to CC, anyone taken by surprise by a dress code: don't sweat it. Code is flexible for just that reason. Cruisin Susan - that black dress will be absolutely, positively gorgeous on her. And you will both have a great time!

[Gunther1]

I think we ought to spend hours of our life talking about those that use the incorrect fork for their salad.

[Set Free]

I think we ought to spend hours of our life talking about those that use the incorrect fork for their salad.

 

I agree. THEY are the real problem in society.

 

And those who drink from the wrong water glass?? For shame!

[LindaM]

I don't think anyone typecast the type of person who sails on Carnival. I know for a fact people of all socioeconomic levels sail on Carnival and NCL. I have sailed on NCL numerous times. However, my point was that Carnival is known for a more casual atmosphere and dress code. That is a fact.

 

Betty, I can "foster my opinion" about how people dress in the MDR. I have every right to do so. Why do you feel I cannot?? From my experience here, I have found that most people who don't want to dress up feel intimidated by entering the MDR in jeans. They feel they are relegated to the Lido. HAL has most graciously altered the dress code, so these people can eat in the MDR, if they wish. It appears that most still are uncomfortable and eat in the Lido.I would imagine they would like more people to wear jeans in the MDR, so they don't stand out. I would guess that is their reason for promoting wearing jeans in the MDR.

Just because HAL says it's fine to wear jeans, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. They are a corporation, trying to please the masses. Why else would they still allow smoking???

 

 

It doesn't ruin my vacation when people dress like bums. It enhances the "people watching" experience. My concern is that in the future, more people will take the lazy way out and the MDR will turn into a casual venue. Those who are dressed properly will be the minority!

 

BTW, how do you highlight certain responses, then respond to them???

[cruz chic]

I agree with you lorekauf on your reply to the OP. I just want to find out what piece of clothing is meant by wife beater?? I've not heard that reference before, so am just curious...

 

Joanie

Where I live it's a t shirt with no arms so you can get a nice view of the armpit hair. Now you know why I called it that. Too much to explain:eek:.

[Set Free]

BTW, how do you highlight certain responses, then respond to them???

 

Just hit the "quote" bottom at the bottom of the post you want to respond to. It will bring up the reply window with the quote in it already.

[world~citizen]

Where I live it's a t shirt with no arms so you can get a nice view of the armpit hair. Now you know why I called it that. Too much to explain:eek:.

 

Actually you can Google it. :)

 

Here is the Wikipedia entry:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeveless_shirt

[Set Free]

I agree with you lorekauf on your reply to the OP. I just want to find out what piece of clothing is meant by wife beater?? I've not heard that reference before, so am just curious...

 

Joanie

 

It's a tank style undershirt like this:

 

http://eecue.com/img/images_pic-medium-27891-guy_in_wife_beater.jpg