Attn: NCL.... suggestion to solve bathroom 'issues'

[Egret32]

Our travel companion on the TA was the head of infectious disease for a large university hospital. I asked him how he felt about all the precautions on the ship and the issues with the bathrooms, drapes etc. He said:

1. This is a ship, not a hospital. Most people are healthy and so different conditions apply.
2. There were lots of Purel dispensers with a generous amount and he was pleased to see so many using them all the time.
3. They could use some dispensers in the computer area and near the touch screens in the photo area, and more in the casino.
4. The drapes by the bathroom could easily be sanitized with spray solution and they did not have to be wiped down or made of plastic.
5. There was not a lot of difference to washing your hands in the same room as the toilet, or at the sink in another room. Remember this is common in public restrooms.

And not from the doctor...tests have shown there can be a great deal of contamination on your toothbrush, wash cloth etc. when in close contact with the toilet from spraying--and that is e. coli. Some separation of the sink is considered healthy.

Please note that there is a HUGE medicine cabinet and lots of storage around the puny sink. Just plopping a better sink would help. The high sides are a good idea and the little sink...well it is curvy and pretty and fits the theme. The spout--high and fixed--is the biggest problem.

But if you travel in Europe much you are always perplexed by their plumbing decisions.

[negc]

[quote name='sjbdtz']Controversy means people are talking about your product. And isn't that the holy grail of marketing?????

Any press is good press! [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publicity[/URL]

"As long as they spell the name right"

No such thing as bad 'free' publicity.....


:D[/quote]
I know that it is a common perception that anytime your name is mentioned that is a good thing, but one need only read this board or the responses to any board where a particular negative comment is made to see how many people focus on that negative remark and make their cruising decisions based on that. Even when negative remarks are vastly outnumbered by the positives, you will see posts which say that "I have seen a lot of negative comments about Y and am seriously questioning my decision to cruise with them." I think that negatives have much more impact on people than positives on many people and doubt that NCL is subscribing to the theory that any publicity is good publicity. If it was then the cheerleaders wouldn't get so worked up about the criticisms.;)

[Giorgi-one]

[quote name='CanadianTwosome']
This brings me to the final bit that I disagree with wholeheartedly - I don't think these boards are a particularly good way to tell NCL anything. The percentage of actual customers that visit these boards is miniscule; just look at how many people are on an average roll call compared to the number on each cruise. Of that small percentage, some are positive and some are negative, but of the negative ones, there are usually a few posters who do most of the talking - so while there may be 50 negative posts about a particular issue (say, the bathroom design), they may come from only 10 posters. Like it or not, if the powers that be at NCL do visit these boards, the opinions of 10 people (or 50) - many of whom swear they will never sail NCL and some of whom admit they never have - are not going to drive them to redesign a brand new ship.

QUOTE]

Now I can disagree with you wholeheartedly in a nice way. We were on NCL Gem in 2008 and had a CC Party. The Hotel Director (this is the guy who runs the ship - restaurants, staterooms, entertainment, etc all report to him) came to the party. The first thing he said to us was that if we had any problems we should come directly to him. HE DID NOT WANT TO SEE PROBLEMS POSTED ON CRUISE CRITIC. So, yes, the cruise lines do pay attention to cruise critic probably because they feel that people on these boards knowledgeable and probably speak for many, if not, most of their clientele. There are many people who read the posts on Cruise Critic but never post themselves. Also, many TAs frequent the Cruise Critic boards to find out what is going on. If they see problems, they will steer their clients to other lines / ships. You may think the bathrooms are fine, but a TA is not going to take a chance and lose a client. If they even perceive there could be a problem, they will steer their clients to another ship. That is exactly why we will most probably be cancelling seven cabins on the Epic. I realize this will not bankrupt NCL but it will send a message and my clients will be much happier on a Celebrity 10-day cruise in a larger balcony cabin with a bathroom for about $100 more per person

By the way, my initial post gave some very good suggestions for making the bathrooms better - not really fixing them. That is what this thread was all about but of course most people did not pay attention to that - they just decided to criticize anyone who did not like the bathroom arrangement. The modifications would not be very expensive but NCL would probably have to cancel one cruise to install them. In the long run, this would probably be cost effective.

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='negc']I know that it is a common perception that anytime your name is mentioned that is a good thing, but one need only read this board or the responses to any board where a particular negative comment is made to see how many people focus on that negative remark and make their cruising decisions based on that. Even when negative remarks are vastly outnumbered by the positives, you will see posts which say that "I have seen a lot of negative comments about Y and am seriously questioning my decision to cruise with them." I think that negatives have much more impact on people than positives on many people and doubt that NCL is subscribing to the theory that any publicity is good publicity. If it was then the cheerleaders wouldn't get so worked up about the criticisms.;)[/quote]

If people are raising concerns, and other people are providing different perspectives, then its good.

Other than one-off scenarios like WayGrumpy's a/c, or the issues MrLucky had, none of the other complaints are universal. Some don't like Cirque, others do. Some don't like BMG, others do, some don't like the bathrooms, others do.

Some (Frommer) found the ship had too much activity. Some booked the ship for precisely that reason.


So any discussion is good....the ship is being talked about....there's BUZZ!!! :)

[waygrumpy]

[quote name='sjbdtz']Controversy means people are talking about your product. And isn't that the holy grail of marketing?????

Any press is good press! [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publicity[/URL]

"As long as they spell the name right"

No such thing as bad 'free' publicity.....


:D[/quote]

That is actually a marketing axioum that is simply not true anymore and perhaps never was.

Bad press is bad press.

There is another axiom of marketing that goes something like.

If you win over on customer you win costomer. If you lose a customer you lose 10 more to follow.

I may not have worded it correctly but when someone gets off a ship hotel whatever and says wow I had a good time their friends colleagues etc go wow you paid a lot of money glad to hear it you should have.

If you had big trouble and tell people they make a not of it and since there are a myriad of other choices take head of your issues limit there risk and find a different solution.

That old phrase actually goes back to a time when press was hard to get and to access and dealt with having your name heard.

[waygrumpy]

[quote name='sjbdtz']If people are raising concerns, and other people are providing different perspectives, then its good.

Other than one-off scenarios like WayGrumpy's a/c, or the issues MrLucky had, none of the other complaints are universal. Some don't like Cirque, others do. Some don't like BMG, others do, some don't like the bathrooms, others do.

Some (Frommer) found the ship had too much activity. Some booked the ship for precisely that reason.


So any discussion is good....the ship is being talked about....there's BUZZ!!! :)[/quote]

Sorry I did not see you had already posted this when i put up mine.

You are right on things like shows (we agreed to disagree on the ice bar. case in point) but basic construction and design become a different thing. If everyone says there is not room to use the commode and you have to listen to someone while they do their business, rooms to small etc people listen to this differently then boy I did not like the Ice Bar.

I know you have been on the ship but do you mind if I ask what type of stateroom you were in?

[CanadianTwosome]

[quote name='Giorgi-one'][quote name='CanadianTwosome']
This brings me to the final bit that I disagree with wholeheartedly - I don't think these boards are a particularly good way to tell NCL anything. The percentage of actual customers that visit these boards is miniscule; just look at how many people are on an average roll call compared to the number on each cruise. Of that small percentage, some are positive and some are negative, but of the negative ones, there are usually a few posters who do most of the talking - so while there may be 50 negative posts about a particular issue (say, the bathroom design), they may come from only 10 posters. Like it or not, if the powers that be at NCL do visit these boards, the opinions of 10 people (or 50) - many of whom swear they will never sail NCL and some of whom admit they never have - are not going to drive them to redesign a brand new ship.

QUOTE]

Now I can disagree with you wholeheartedly in a nice way. We were on NCL Gem in 2008 and had a CC Party. The Hotel Director (this is the guy who runs the ship - restaurants, staterooms, entertainment, etc all report to him) came to the party. The first thing he said to us was that if we had any problems we should come directly to him. HE DID NOT WANT TO SEE PROBLEMS POSTED ON CRUISE CRITIC. So, yes, the cruise lines do pay attention to cruise critic probably because they feel that people on these boards knowledgeable and probably speak for many, if not, most of their clientele. There are many people who read the posts on Cruise Critic but never post themselves. Also, many TAs frequent the Cruise Critic boards to find out what is going on. If they see problems, they will steer their clients to other lines / ships. You may think the bathrooms are fine, but a TA is not going to take a chance and lose a client. If they even perceive there could be a problem, they will steer their clients to another ship. That is exactly why we will most probably be cancelling seven cabins on the Epic. I realize this will not bankrupt NCL but it will send a message and my clients will be much happier on a Celebrity 10-day cruise in a larger balcony cabin with a bathroom for about $100 more per person

By the way, my initial post gave some very good suggestions for making the bathrooms better - not really fixing them. That is what this thread was all about but of course most people did not pay attention to that - they just decided to criticize anyone who did not like the bathroom arrangement. The modifications would not be very expensive but NCL would probably have to cancel one cruise to install them. In the long run, this would probably be cost effective.[/quote]

I don't think we entirely disagree. I probably wasn't really clear in what I meant to say. I absolutely believe that NCL employees read CC, and I am certain that they would rather have issues reported directly to them rather than posted here. I don't, however, think that the complaints here lead them to make any changes to their ships. A while back, someone started an email campaign about something; it was prompted here, with the addresses being posted, and it did have positive results. That effort involved direct contact with NCL, though, which is not the same as simply posting here. Here on the board, we're all anonymous and in reality could have 20 accounts, all posting similar things to make it look like we have support for our ideas. When we contact NCL directly, they can see that we are real individuals, and that we are past customers (I'm not sure they'd care if someone wrote them and said 'I'll never sail NCL but I hate your bathroom design on the Epic; I wouldn't).

I do think that it's unfortunate that TAs will simply tell clients to avoid a ship or an entire cruise line because they personally believe there is a problem. In my opinion (as an ex-TA myself), a good TA takes the time to explain whatever it is they think might be an issue, so that the client can make an informed decision. (as you have with your friends) It's not their job to 'protect me' by making decisions for me; it's to INFORM me so that I can make them myself. Obviously, having someone explain the cabin design to me would not have deterred me from booking Epic, and I would hate to have missed out on everything else the ship has to offer because someone who barely knows me didn't like the bathroom themselves.

I think people are too sensitive on these boards. Just because someone has a different opinion or asks for clarification from another poster, it doesn't mean that they are criticizing them - or 'attacking' as I've seen many accused of. There is a stigma that the 'cheerleaders' can't stand to see anything negative said about NCL, but with the exception of very few, most of us are just expressing our more positive opinions or experiences. Believe me, feeling like you aren't being heard or respected is not unique to either side of any discussion.

As far as any suggestions go, I still think that we have to wait and see (along with NCL). The next year or so will illustrate very well whether the cabin design was the big mistake that people think it was. If people refuse to book the wave cabins, NCL will have to make changes, it's as simple as that. If their bookings remain good, however, I expect they'll leave things as they are.

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='waygrumpy']

I know you have been on the ship but do you mind if I ask what type of stateroom you were in?[/quote]


Not at all. I was in Spa Suite #14159 (bump-out with extra-large balcony).

I participated in a Cabin Crawl with many others from the board, and we saw most if not all cabin types. I photographed many of them, here: [URL]http://community.webshots.com/user/sjbdtz[/URL]

I'm not sure that the basic construction & design is universally disliked, either.....there is a VERY vocal minority (several of whom haven't even seen the rooms in person), who are mocking them.... and deriding them (not quite berating or castigating), but then there are several who have experienced them and found them not only acceptable, but an improvement.

There are threads where completely wrong information is being given. Someone said there was no exhaust fan in the bathroom, so suddenly 50 posts appear concerned about odor (....but there IS an exhaust fan...)

And someone said no exhaust in the shower, so suddenly too much humidity, steam throughout the cabin, and the uncomfortable effect this is likely to cause is being discussed (....but there IS an exhaust fan in the shower....)


So you have 'cheerleaders' (a.k.a. people who have a more positive perspective) who try to evaluate the criticisms, and then correct the inaccuracies.

Was my trip perfect? No..... in fact there were several things I raised in a letter.......but as I mentioned in another thread...it was a far cry from my trip from New Zealand to Seoul.... with lost luggage, different climate, looming appointments with dress codes, and missed flights......


Stephen

[sottovoce]

[quote name='mylesf']I really think that you should not comment on what they should do or should not do if you have never cruised on this ship...There are very large medicine cabinet's already installed above each sink with it's own light. Light switch is located under the cabinet.[/quote]
Knowing nothing about a topic has never stopped Georgi-one from bloviating. Does it all the time.

[sottovoce]

[quote name='Abear2'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy]For the person that stated there is a medicine cabinet over the sink...have you sailed this ship, because I kept trying to open it and then realized it DIDN"T open ! I am wondering if anyone else's cabinet opened ? :rolleyes:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]
Ours did in a balcony cabin. Kept toothbrushes, pills, shaver, etc., in the medicine cabinet. Had to ask the steward how to turn the sink light on, however. Cabin was fine, but the whiners have to whine over something. Amazing amount of storage. Only complaint: bed too short.

[waygrumpy]

[quote name='sottovoce']Ours did in a balcony cabin. Kept toothbrushes, pills, shaver, etc., in the medicine cabinet. Had to ask the steward how to turn the sink light on, however. Cabin was fine, but the whiners have to whine over something. Amazing amount of storage. Only complaint: bed too short.[/quote]
My wife shut me up on that one (the bed size) once the air was fixed said I could cuddle. I had to drop that complaint fast before she dropped me lol. Guess she knows how to shut me up lol.

Huh i thought it was just a mirror did not want to force it open so just left it alone . hmmmmmm.

[negc]

[quote name='sjbdtz']If people are raising concerns, and other people are providing different perspectives, then its good.

Other than one-off scenarios like WayGrumpy's a/c, or the issues MrLucky had, none of the other complaints are universal. Some don't like Cirque, others do. Some don't like BMG, others do, some don't like the bathrooms, others do.

Some (Frommer) found the ship had too much activity. Some booked the ship for precisely that reason.


So any discussion is good....the ship is being talked about....there's BUZZ!!! :)[/quote]
Not if most of the BUZZ is negative and you are describing situations were there is a fairly equal number of positive vs negative posts. In the case of the EPIC, I think you will find, if you evaluate them fairly, that there are more negatives than positives. The only thing offsetting most of the negative posts are those from defenders whose primary response is to tell those unhappy with the ship that they didn't do their research, should sail another ship or line, or have misguided priorities as to what is important when cruising. As I also noted, any one negative comment seems to have a much greater impact than several positive ones.
If you truly believe that even negative publicity is a good thing, I've got some BP and Toyota stock I'd like to sell you. There are probably a lot of public officials who have been victims of smear campaigns who would argue with your premise. Remember the federal official who asked, after being subjected to negative publicity but subsequently acquitted,"Where do I go to get my reputation back?" I don't believe that NCL executives are saying to themselves, well, the comments about EPIC might not be what we expected, but at least they spelled our name correctly.

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='negc'] I think you will find, if you evaluate them fairly, that there are more negatives than positives. .[/quote]


I beg to differ. I think if you evaluate them fairly, you'll find FAR more positives (most of the ship/entertainment/food) than negatives (bathrooms, cabins....mostly posted by people who haven't boarded the ship).

Fairly...that's the key.

[lusitanica]

[quote name='sjbdtz']I beg to differ. I think if you evaluate them fairly, you'll find FAR more positives (most of the ship/entertainment/food) than negatives (bathrooms, cabins....mostly posted by people who haven't boarded the ship).

Fairly...that's the key.[/quote]

You know, as I had to say before, some of cruise line addicts with a frightening list of one-cruise_line-only cruises do the worst help.
Your interfering with every "negative" comment just accentuates Epic problems and heats up "negative" discussions.
You are quoting negatives over and over [I]doubling them in number[/I].
Your repeating denial of real problems and (to be polite) less than sophisticated arguments just make things worse provoking opponents to come up with more and more reasons for being critical.
It's strange that you don't realize that.
If I were a cheerleader like you, I would skip all problematic topics and instead would start several threads about Epic pros like BMG, 3-4 restaurants, water slide. [I]I would focus on cultivating interest to main attractions[/I] rather than on helpless attemts to justify obvious flops where you lose with embarrassing score over and over.:)

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='lusitanica']You know, as I had to say before, some of cruise line addicts with a frightening list of one-cruise_line-only cruises do the worst help.
Your interfering with every "negative" comment just accentuates Epic problems and heats up "negative" discussions.
You are quoting negatives over and over [I]doubling them in number[/I].
Your repeating denial of real problems and (to be polite) less than sophisticated arguments just make things worse provoking opponents to come up with more and more reasons for being critical.
It's strange that you don't realize that.
If I were a cheerleader like you, I would skip all problematic topics and instead would start several threads about Epic pros like BMG, 3-4 restaurants, water slide. [I]I would focus on cultivating interest to main attractions[/I] rather than on helpless attemts to justify obvious flops where you lose with embarrassing score over and over.:)[/quote]



I'm not deceptive in my posts, however. I can evaluate the ship based on experience, not conjecture.


I hated BMG, thought it was a waste of 65 out of the 75 minutes.

Didn't use the water slides, or the main restaurants.

I respond to the things which I saw myself, or experienced.

You seem to respond to whatever you feel like, and to turn all the positive posts into negatives, to suit YOUR AGENDA.

[Giorgi-one]

[quote name='sottovoce']Knowing nothing about a topic has never stopped Georgi-one from bloviating. Does it all the time.[/QUOTE]

It's a gift!

[CanadianTwosome]

[quote name='negc']Not if most of the BUZZ is negative and you are describing situations were there is a fairly equal number of positive vs negative posts. In the case of the EPIC, I think you will find, if you evaluate them fairly, that there are more negatives than positives. The only thing offsetting most of the negative posts are those from defenders whose primary response is to tell those unhappy with the ship that they didn't do their research, should sail another ship or line, or [COLOR=red]have misguided priorities as to what is important when cruising[/COLOR]. As I also noted, any one negative comment seems to have a much greater impact than several positive ones.
If you truly believe that even negative publicity is a good thing, I've got some BP and Toyota stock I'd like to sell you. There are probably a lot of public officials who have been victims of smear campaigns who would argue with your premise. Remember the federal official who asked, after being subjected to negative publicity but subsequently acquitted,"Where do I go to get my reputation back?" I don't believe that NCL executives are saying to themselves, well, the comments about EPIC might not be what we expected, but at least they spelled our name correctly.[/quote]

Wow, closed-minded much? I think you need to consider that every individual has their own unique life experiences that form their personal perspectives on things like what is important while cruising. How egotistical do you have to be to think that if someone doesn't agree with your opinion it must be because they have 'misguided priorities'?

As for the publicity thing, again I think you are placing too much value on your OPINION (and those of others who agree with you). Certainly there may be some sheep in the world who are incapable of forming their own and are willing to base their decisions on how complete strangers on an anonymous message board (or Oprah :p) feel about something, but I like to think most people read opinions and weed out the facts so that they can decide for themselves. If I had never heard of the Epic before now, reading 1000 scathing reports about the 'horrible' cabin design would have led me to the exact same opinion I have now - that I'm going to love it. On the other hand, I've seen more than one person cancel their Epic booking as a result of what they've read. Do you think they've done that because of other peoples' opinions? I doubt it. They've read what people have written, looked at the pictures, and made a choice that is [I]right for them[/I] based on the information. I'm sorry that they won't be able to enjoy all the other things on the ship that they were no doubt looking forward to, but I support their decisions because they know themselves and have different priorities than I do - not 'misguided', just different.

So, regardless of whether people love or hate the new cabins, every time they 'publicize' their opinion - and describe the new cabins in the process - NCL is getting advertising for them. Most of this 'publicity' that I've seen outside of some of the more focused threads on these boards includes not only a description of the cabin, but also of the rest of the ship. People are going to read the cabin parts and think one of an assortment of things: 'I would hate that', 'I think that would be great', or 'I don't think I'll like that but I can easily make it work if it means getting to enjoy everything else this ship has to offer'. ALL are valid responses based on [I][B]the individual's personal perspective [/B][/I]- and as a result, NONE are 'misguided'. I think the publicity will ultimately work in NCL's favour, regardless of the reader's reaction, because it will entice the second group to sail the Epic, it will prepare the third group ahead of time so that they can plan ahead to be able to enjoy the rest of the ship, and it will stop people from booking that would have their cruise ruined by their discomfort in the cabins. To me, this is all good and exactly what any business would want. :)

[lusitanica]

[quote name='CanadianTwosome']Wow, closed-minded much? I think you need to consider that every individual has their own unique life experiences ......[/quote]

I think you have not read it right:
[quote][COLOR=black]Originally Posted by [B]negc[/B] [/COLOR][URL="http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=25322538#post25322538"][COLOR=black][IMG]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/COLOR][/URL]
[I][COLOR=black]The only thing offsetting most of the negative posts are [COLOR=red]those from defenders[/COLOR] whose primary response is [COLOR=red]to tell those unhappy[/COLOR] with the ship [COLOR=red]that[/COLOR][COLOR=red] they[/COLOR] didn't do their research, should sail another ship or line, or [COLOR=red]have misguided priorities as to what is important when cruising[/COLOR]. As I also noted, any one negative comment seems to have a much greater impact than several positive ones.[/COLOR][/I][COLOR=black]
[/COLOR][/quote]

The OP is [B]not[/B] saying that local cheerleaders have misguided priorities.
On the contrary, the OP is saying about what [I]you are doing[/I] right now: trying to teach other CC posters.

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='lusitanica']I think you have not read it right:


The OP is [B]not[/B] saying that local cheerleaders have misguided priorities.
On the contrary, the OP is saying about what [I]you are doing[/I] right now: trying to teach other CC posters.[/quote]

I would say you misread it.

Seems NegC was saying that the cheerleaders, suggesting they knew better than the complainers, were not helping.

Both CT & I have replied that what we are doing is providing alternate viewpoints, equally valid to the negative ones....yet NegC finds the negative viewpoints credible, and the positive viewpoints (cheerleaders :rolleyes:) not credible.

That suggests a bias in favor of the negative reviews.



For anyone with a truly open mind, both positive and negative views would be welcomed, even if they are questioned, clarified, and in some cases countered.....because leaving assertions uncontested is an implicit agreement with them.

Frommer described the EPIC as frenetic and busy, and hated it. I describe the EPIC as frenetic and busy and loved it....and I have as much of a right to say so, as he does.

[CanadianTwosome]

[quote name='sjbdtz']I would say you misread it.

Seems NegC was saying that the cheerleaders, suggesting they knew better than the complainers, were not helping.

Both CT & I have replied that what we are doing is providing alternate viewpoints, equally valid to the negative ones....yet NegC finds the negative viewpoints credible, and the positive viewpoints (cheerleaders :rolleyes:) not credible.

That suggests a bias in favor of the negative reviews.



For anyone with a truly open mind, both positive and negative views would be welcomed, even if they are questioned, clarified, and in some cases countered.....because leaving assertions uncontested is an implicit agreement with them.

Frommer described the EPIC as frenetic and busy, and hated it. I describe the EPIC as frenetic and busy and loved it....and I have as much of a right to say so, as he does.[/quote]

I did just reread it and realized that I did have it wrong. The original statement was accusing cheerleaders of saying that people who didn't like the cabins had misguided priorities. Now that I've got it straight, though, I still disagree with the statement for another reason - that I do not believe it's been said. Believe me, if I had seen such a statement from anyone, regardless of which side of the debate they were on, I would have reacted exactly the same way.

I agree that Lusitanica also misread the quote, and with everything else in your post. One of the most frustrating things about these threads is the apparent refusal of some people who don't like the cabins to accept that not everyone shares that opinion. Hence, anyone with a positive viewpoint must be a cheerleader, because to them, the only way anyone could say something nice about these cabins is out of loyalty to NCL.

In the meantime, the vast majority of the reviews so far are 4 and 5 stars. Based on that, I'd have to guess that either people are not finding the bathrooms as much of a problem as some would like, or they're just not important enough to impact how fabulous the Epic is as a whole. :)

[lusitanica]

[quote name='sjbdtz']

Both CT & I have replied that what we are doing is providing alternate viewpoints, equally valid to the negative ones....yet NegC finds the negative viewpoints credible, and the positive viewpoints (cheerleaders :rolleyes:) not credible.

[/quote]

I like it when facts come first. Viewpoints come second.

Examples.

This is fact:
[IMG]http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/6909/50159328.jpg[/IMG]




This is not:

[QUOTE]
[quote name='waygrumpy']

From what I can tell the ship has 21 eating establishments (On a 7 day cruise that is a different restaurant for each meal.:eek:)[/quote][/QUOTE]

NCL counted 17 items (deduct such "restaurants" like room service, pizza delivery, posh, poolside snacks and Cirque(?) - 11 or 12).
Why are people more epic that the Epic?:D

[CanadianTwosome]

[quote name='negc']Not if most of the BUZZ is negative and you are describing situations were there is a fairly equal number of positive vs negative posts. In the case of the EPIC, I think you will find, if you evaluate them fairly, that there are more negatives than positives. The only thing offsetting most of the negative posts are those from defenders whose primary response is to tell those unhappy with the ship that they didn't do their research, should sail another ship or line, or have misguided priorities as to what is important when cruising. As I also noted, any one negative comment seems to have a much greater impact than several positive ones.
If you truly believe that even negative publicity is a good thing, I've got some BP and Toyota stock I'd like to sell you. There are probably a lot of public officials who have been victims of smear campaigns who would argue with your premise. Remember the federal official who asked, after being subjected to negative publicity but subsequently acquitted,"Where do I go to get my reputation back?" I don't believe that NCL executives are saying to themselves, well, the comments about EPIC might not be what we expected, but at least they spelled our name correctly.[/quote]

I just wanted to apologize for misreading part of this post earlier. My answer still would have contained most of the same ideas, just not any of the references to 'misguided priorities'. Sorry about that. :)

Now that I'm not so shocked about that one point, I will also add that the examples you're giving are of publicity about things that are either negative to everyone (oil spills and fatality-inducing malfunctions) or lies/dirty secrets (smear campaigns). The Epic cabins are not in either category, because they are NOT negative to everyone, and they are not 'dirty secrets' (in fact, NCL [I]wants[/I] the public to know about their product). They are what they are, and so in this case whether bad or good, the reviews are getting the information out to people who may think they're a bad idea, may think they're a great idea or just not care enough for them to be a dealbreaker. I believe NCL is betting that the majority of their potential customers will be in the latter two categories.

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='lusitanica']I like it when facts come first. Viewpoints come second.

Examples.

This is fact:
[IMG]http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/6909/50159328.jpg[/IMG]




This is not:



NCL counted 17 items (deduct such "restaurants" like room service, pizza delivery, posh, poolside snacks and Cirque(?) - 11 or 12).
Why are people more epic that the Epic?:D[/quote]


I see the problem now.

Now we can fix it.


You don't understand the meaning of the word "fact"!!!!



Photographs are the most deceptive thing to rely upon. I'm really not sure what you're trying to convey in the photos you've chosen (did you 'shop' them?), but I see a much wider-than-usual entry hallway....looks quite welcoming.

Then I see a guy sitting comfortably on a couch, drinking coffee (or something). My viewpoint is that he seems to be staring at a wall, yours might be that he is lost in mentally picturing all the fun he's about to have onboard after he gets a quick caffeine dose.....

Is that what you were thinking? That is a viewpoint. :)

[hat776]

[quote name='CanadianTwosome'] the reviews are getting the information out to people who may think they're a bad idea, may think they're a great idea or just not care enough for them to be a dealbreaker. I believe NCL is betting that the majority of their potential customers will be in the latter two categories.[/quote]
Regarding the bathrooms I do agree with the above.
I haven't followed all the threads, but have there been many who think they are a great idea ?
If NCL decide to order a new ship, does any one think they will repeat the bathroom lay out ?

[hat776]

Originally Posted by [B]waygrumpy[/B] [URL="http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=25303876#post25303876"][IMG]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL]
[I]
<<From what I can tell the ship has 21 eating establishments (On a 7 day cruise that is a different restaurant for each meal.>>[/I]
[I] [/I]
[I]How many of these restaurants incur an extra payment ?[/I]