Dancing on F.O

[KenQE2]

I've seen ballroom dancing discussed in various other threads, but as a VERY keen semi-competitive dancer myself (though it's slipped a bit lately due to circumstances beyond my control) I thought to centrallise discussion into one thread - particularly as I am after information!

 

I have experience of dancing on ship - my partner and I were on the anti-penultimate "shortie" cruise before the QE2 popped its clogs, and it wasn't exactly covered in glory.

 

We found the only time the dancing would be good for us was when there were CDs before the main evening started, so on the black&white night we chose to roll out the best black ball gown (with fade-to-white floats, sparkles, and pearl trimmings), with me in my white tux & black tie. We went to meet our dinner table for starters, then skipped main course and headed for the ballroom.

 

No music. I grabbed one of the hosts and asked what was happening - he said nobody had come to put the music on and they couldn't do it themselves. We waited for a bit then I had another go, told him we had made a special effort to come down on this particular evening only.

 

They rustled round and found somebody to get the CD playing and we took to the floor - only to find that the tension had driven us completely off form, the (ever so slight) rocking of the boat sent our lines (and balance) off-course, and the floor ran out before we had got half a dozen steps in (even keeping it compact).

 

Sure, we got a ripple of applause, but it wasn't a patch on what it could have been (but still better than what I saw of the "professional demonstration" - ha!). When the band was ready to strike up we retreated to the restaurant and rejoined the others for sweet (our waiters offered to find us main courses but we had been eating enough for six the rest of the time and welcomed the break).

 

As you will note from my sig I'm sailing on the Balmoral in the Autumn, but this time I'm travelling with a college friend and won't have my partner in tow. If there's a chance and an opportunity I'll have a dance (I know the floor will be even smaller than QE2!), but I'm wondering: there are gentlemen dance hosts for unaccompanied lady passengers, but what about unaccompanied gentlemen passengers?

[amberline]

We were on Boudicca last April and there was a female dance host along side a few gentlemen dance hosts. I am sure you will find a partner to twirl around the floor as there are lots of ladies on board who love to dance and don't have a partner. Good Luck

[KenQE2]

We were on Boudicca last April and there was a female dance host along side a few gentlemen dance hosts.

That is good news. I acknowledge that there may have been on the QE2 as well, but the gentlemen hosts are easier to identify at a glance (trouble is, with my tux I have the same uniform!).

 

I am sure you will find a partner to twirl around the floor as there are lots of ladies on board who love to dance and don't have a partner.

Maybe, but it's not something I find easy to do. I'll start with a host if I can find one and see how we go from there. At least she shouldn't be too fazed if I bung in a fall-away slip pivot or something (hard to stop myself).

[1160451]

On the Braemar last Feb there were 3 male dance hosts and 1 female dance host. The lady dance host often had to ask the accompanied men as there is always more unaccompanied ladies than men.

 

The host are easy to pick out as they do not mix but stand around the front or sides of the floor.

 

Also experienced dancers will not mind you asking accompanied ladies to dance. We dance every week and my wife is often asked if she would like to dance if I am say at the bar or "resting". Obviously not every other dance but the odd request is fine.

 

Look out for the cruises that are designated Ballroom Cruises there will be more dancing to suit Ballroom I would think.

 

April 10th out of Liverpool is one such cruise.

 

The dance floors are rather small on most of the FO, so you have to stick to the basics I have found, not much scope for the more intricate whisks etc.

 

We find that even if the music is not strict tempo we can always adapt to a ChachaCha, Rumba or a Swing. The quickstep on the small crowded floor is often a challenge though.

 

Dance for fun and you will enjoy.

[KenQE2]

OK, thanks for the feedback.

 

If I might comment personally (not in any way to criticise):

 

experienced dancers will not mind you asking accompanied ladies to dance

Competitive standard is very personal to the partnership, I am not used to the idea of "borrowing" somebody's partner except perhaps for a sequence dance. We are obviously "experienced" in different ways!

 

Look out for the cruises that are designated Ballroom Cruises there will be more dancing to suit Ballroom I would think.

No can do, we're on the Balmoral cruise and that's that (chosen for date and itinerary, not the standard of ballroom provision).

 

Dance for fun and you will enjoy.

Give me a moody waltz or foxtrot at a slightly slow tempo, and a host who can follow, and I will enjoy! The necessary body contact is a bit too intimate for somebody else's partner I think.

 

I might be revealing a bit too much here, but the hour is late and I have a bottle of Henry Weston's Vintage inside me having put my dance partner, 34 years my senior and still able to keep up until recently, to bed as she now has Alzheimer's and I'm her carer. Past glories are but a memory which bring tears watching Kara Toynton on Strictly last season.

[1160451]

Hi

 

Your right "experience" is relative and ours is as social dancers, so well understand your comments re the body contact.

 

We are happy to get thro a Foxtrot in time never mind the steps:)

 

I am sure from your post you would never change your past glories so you have those still in your mind.

 

I am more of a malt whiskey man than a Cider man but the result is often the same I am sure.

 

Hope you have a real good time on the Balmoral and take it easy.

[KenQE2]

I guess I've run up my flag now, and with no edit privileges it's for better or worse.

 

So, if there are any (preferably) unaccompanied ladies on the trip who feel up to the challenge...

 

I must not, however, neglect my travelling companion!

[Fred. Olsen Cruise Lines]

In answer to your question on lady dance hosts, we do have them on the majority of our cruises. If you let me know which cruise you are on I will be able to confirm.

 

Regards

 

FOCL

[KenQE2]

Many thanks. L1119 - also shown in my sig. I don't suppose you could get somebody like Jennifer Hillier for example? No? Thought not.

 

Before anybody gets into a lather about it, please note I do not decry social dancers (or if I do, only under my breath :) ). We have different skill sets and in many ways social dancing is a more applicable skill than competitive dancing. It's like trying to take a thoroughbred Arabian race horse out on a hack. I admire those able to just enjoy dancing to whatever music comes on - with a twinge of regret I need more controlled conditions (but when it's good, boy does it make you tingle)!

[1160451]

Hi

 

Nobody gets in a lather here on the Fred board, :) Well ok maybe when somebody sugests not dressing for Dinner.

 

Now if you had even slightly hinted at decrying Social dancers over on the P&O Board you would have had the UK Social Dancers Association down on you before you could say Mayfair Quickstep.

 

Our friends are always amazed that I seem to be able to dance a quickstep to nearly every piece of music, and it's pretty hard to do that.

 

Have a good one on the Balmoral.

[KenQE2]

Ah, now, I love doing the Mayfair to Dance Above the Rainbow (a little old hat now), but the serious Sequencers would hate it 'cos it's too fast to do the proper foot positions.

 

As to being able to dance Quickstep to anything - maybe that means you don't take any notice of the music? :D Just kidding (wouldn't want to start a war)

[Coravel]

I've been on the Balmoral several times Ken and there has never been a shortage of female partners, particularly if you are a good dancer. My wife and I are also keen ballroom dancers but not at the level you have achieved. :)

[KenQE2]

I'm getting rusty and stiff unfortunately, and if I did get the chance I would probably be exhausted after half a dance :(

[Coravel]

Hardest part is staying upright owing to the dance floor moving under youir feet. You have to admire the precision footwork of the ship's dance troupe. Too clever by half! :cool:

[koonard]

Well ............ do you want to have fun or are you all strictly tempo ? Yawn !

 

I have been on F O as a dance host as believe me this is no picnic. Apart from touching all the old men and having to try to look excited at dancing with an 80 year old who cant dance and has bad breath and has been sick with norovirus OMG what an awful job !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I tried to help with the fun and holiday aspect but it was hard going.

 

Men seem to think they can dance ........ I found most of them cant lead and when you dont follow them seem to expect you to mind read !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Dancing is all about having fun and you need to remember that, ok go in for you comps but it should be a social skill to meet people.

 

Please remember you may not be as good as you think you are !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I will never go on another FO cruise as it is so stressful .. just look at the staff next time you are on ............

[KenQE2]

Well ............ do you want to have fun or are you all strictly tempo ? Yawn !

You've fired up my snooty side now. Can't speak for all, but as someone who's had Erin Boag in my arms I can say Strictly any time. Social dancing is (to me).. umm... Yawn!

 

I have been on F O as a dance host as believe me this is no picnic. Apart from touching all the old men and having to try to look excited at dancing with an 80 year old who cant dance and has bad breath and has been sick with norovirus OMG what an awful job !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I'm not 80 and I wouldn't dream of putting anyone through that.

 

Men seem to think they can dance ........ I found most of them cant lead and when you dont follow them seem to expect you to mind read !!!!!!!!!!!!

Didn't you know? Mind reading is a necessary qualification. Oh yes, I can lead. I've been pushing a very fit 80-year old around who needs signals in black & white who would still manage a fall-away slip pivot into double reverse spin and overthrow. The main problem with women not following is lack of body contact.

 

Dancing is all about having fun and you need to remember that, ok go in for you comps but it should be a social skill to meet people.

Horses for courses ma'am, you get your fun where you like. And I've never comp'd.

 

Please remember you may not be as good as you think you are !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Try me.

 

Anyway, it probably won't be a problem. If my friend isn't up to it (and I very much doubt he will be), I can't justify the time and expense and the sheer aggro of Madam having to go into respite care. It will remain an ambition for the future.

[1160451]

Well ............ do you want to have fun or are you all strictly tempo ? Yawn !

 

I have been on F O as a dance host as believe me this is no picnic. Apart from touching all the old men and having to try to look excited at dancing with an 80 year old who cant dance and has bad breath and has been sick with norovirus OMG what an awful job !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I tried to help with the fun and holiday aspect but it was hard going.

 

Men seem to think they can dance ........ I found most of them cant lead and when you dont follow them seem to expect you to mind read !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Dancing is all about having fun and you need to remember that, ok go in for you comps but it should be a social skill to meet people.

 

Please remember you may not be as good as you think you are !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I will never go on another FO cruise as it is so stressful .. just look at the staff next time you are on ............

 

 

Oh I say, a bit harsh me thinks.

[KenQE2]

Oh I say, a bit harsh me thinks.

That's what I thought. Probably just as well she's not hosting any more.

[PenGwyn10]

Just flown home from Dubai after doing some of the world cruise on the Balmoral. There were quite a few of us single ladies wanting to dance (ballroom and sequence) but although the male dance hosts were very good, there were only 5 of them which just wasn't enough.

The chief dance hosts seemed to be Philip and his wife Hilda. Hilda was on her feet every night always ready to dance with gentlemen and if none were available she would then dance with the unaccompanied ladies.

So Ken if you want to dance, there are plenty of ladies who will be delighted to dance with you and on the world cruise they usually were sitting in the front rows in the Neptune Lounge. Maybe that's where they sit on all cruises I don't know but Go and join them! Or even better, become a dance host because you'll never be off your feet!

[trinitytrees]

why is it message boards sometimes become slanging matches?

 

im sure some of the remarks people will happily write would never be said face to face...........

 

be happy, be kind, if you cant say something good say nothing!!

[KenQE2]

For the dubious benefit of anyone passing this way looking for information, let me expound on my experience, thoughts, opinions on Ballroom Dancing. Indulge me. This may become something of an essay, so go get a cuppa.

 

And before anybody gets uppity (well said, that last post), just ask yourself whether you disagree in point of fact, or if you simply don't share the same experience.

 

First, what are my qualifications? In the strictest sense, I have none. I have never done a medal test, or competed (except as a sub to make up the numbers in a team match). I've done the medallist classes as a social activity, sure, but I never felt any compulsion to take the tests - especially as they are essentially a gravy-train for the lettered clique. That made me a little unpopular in some circles, the medal progression drives the income for provincial dancing schools and the tests themselves are a nice little earner for the visiting examiners.

 

That said I cut my teeth in a provincial dancing school, and once I formed my long-standing partnership with Madam (ex-competitor) it did me very well.

 

You have to learn to walk before you can run, and eventually, when you've struggled with it long enough, suddenly something clicks and all the muscle control you need becomes subconsious - they call it muscle memory. When you hit that point you don't need to think about where that foot is going and when, it goes on its own and you can concentrate interpreting the music and imposing your own artistry.

 

After that it's not about being taught any more, it is to be coached. It becomes a two-way exchange between dancers and coach, each drawing the best out of the other. We've been to many top people, the list is long, which sounds like overkill but each one offers their own unique understanding to the mix that would not have been possible by restricting ourselves to one or a few.

 

Although I say I have not competed, we do of course mix with competitors. We belong to an amateur club which, essentially, meets one evening a week at the very best dance floor in the area to provide practice for competitors and anyone else who might benefit. The club also has its social members which help to fund it, and they have their afternoon tea dance and make up the numbers at the annual functions. Funnily enough, for people who have joined an amateur club, they are inclined to get cross when competitors cut them up on a social floor - and I know why:

 

Social dancers carve their own little groove on the floor. Their alignments are not what it says in the book, they don't make the most of the figures to progress around the room - and they can't. All of them are doing it that way, and to do it "better" would go against the flow of the traffic. It's not what they want. It suits their world. Nobody can say that's wrong.

 

Competitors don't know how to dance. That's a very contravercial thing for me to say (no, I've not been on the cider this time). To get good results in competition, they have to be absolutely focused on their performance and have a more-or-less fixed routine that they go through parrot fashion. If you watch a competition you will see carnage - they go through their patterns not caring two hoots who else might be in the way. The very best could dance their routines on their own, man and woman, all you need to do is stick them together and they are in sync through repetition. That's what you have to do to win. But that's not what I call dancing (well it is.. but it isn't). It won't mix with social dancers who don't (and shouldn't) expect to be barged out of the way. Even if you break a competitive dancer of their routines, the figures danced competitively cover far more floor.

 

I have had the luxury of no desire to compete. Madam would have liked to, but as there is a generation gap the age classifications would have worked against us (that's my excuse anyway). Coaches used to competitors wanting the best results as quickly as possible had the luxury of developing the deeper aspects of dancing with us because of that lack of pressure. The result? Floor craft! The ability to use what ever space becomes available without much of a plan beforehand, but producing a competitive-standard performance. Modesty aside, I have a reputation for it. We buzz around (or used to anyway) and nobody minds, because they know we're going for the gap.

 

You can't do that unless the two of you move as one. I move, she moves simultaneously. Any delay or lack of confidence in your partner distracts from the common purpose. The communication is two way - Madam doesn't quite pick up and go where I intended, I immediately compensate and possibly change the figure (the figures are created by the movement, not the other way around).

 

Regrettably I can't count the last 5 years as part of my dancing career. After a superb season up to Christmas 2005, Madam's failing health started a significant decline (with one or two little high points) and now I have a full-time occupation caring for Alzheimer's. Boy do I miss the dancing, which I would dearly love to get back but it is impractical and I fear I may be over the hill by the time I am free again.

 

I've let this ramble on, deliberately so (cathartic), but I will now try to come to some conclusion and draw a point. When I started this thread I had in mind to centrallise discussion of dancing on a cruise, with the specific interest from my point of view that as I happen to be booked for a different reason I might as well see what's doing.

 

If you think social dancing is walking to music while exchanging small talk (nothing wrong with that), all I can say is I'm not interested in small talk (I'm probably borderline Asperger's - otherwise known as a "male"). I'm interested in dancing. When the subject of what dancing to expect on a cruise came up on a ballroom forum, from my limited experience on the QE2 I felt able to explain not to get their hopes up too much, and I guess I need to keep my own advice in mind. It seems unlikely, however well-meaning, I would be able to "connect" with a casual partner.

 

As for volunteering as a host myself, I'm not at all sure I would be suitable. In fact I'm sure I wouldn't.

 

I don't think I've added to the sum of human knowledge, but I've got something off my chest: Don't anybody try to tell me what dancing should or shouldn't be - I've seen it all.

[KenQE2]

Just to add: if I am sailing with my friend, a little dancing will be a light distraction - take it or leave it. If I sail on my own, it is likely to be the main event and therefore very important to me!

[1160451]

Hi ken,

 

A very interesting post and one I have followed and replied to a couple of times.

 

As a dedicated social Dancer of around 3 years now, with my wife, I found your dicsussion about other dancers really interesting.

 

Your point about what I describe as "good dancers" just dancing a set routine not matter how crowded the floror really hit the button with us.

 

I pride myself that I can now lead a partner around the most crowded dance floor with no bumps or hassle to other dancers. But the "good dancers" just dance where their routine takes them with no regard to anybody else, and it sure winds me up. Many a time I am faced with a couple reversing into the line of dance when they can clearly see us and giving us no where to go except a check.

 

I do not consider social dancing is walking to music while exchanging small talk but as we have only been dancing 3 years the novelty is still there.

 

A couple who teach sequance and also run dances say dance for enjoyment, however you want to dance.

 

I do think mixing on the ballroom floor of the social dancer and the competition dancer is always going to be fraught, it's like cyclists and motorists on the road, there will always be conflict.

 

Anyway take care and hope all goes well whatever and whoever you cruise with.

[KenQE2]

Hi 1160451, thanks for the appreciation. You sound like myself many years ago, and I forsee your dancing moving on if you want it to. The only impediment would be availablity of local facilities.

 

I do think mixing on the ballroom floor of the social dancer and the competition dancer is always going to be fraught, it's like cyclists and motorists on the road, there will always be conflict.

I am trying to dispell that notion. I know social dancing can be an end in itself, that's fine, but to develop one's dancing into the more sophisticated figures and picture lines does mean competitive-standard (if not actually competing). Those figures don't work without movement (like I said, the movement creates the figure).

 

The problem is that making the shift almost inevitably means losing one's floor-craft. The NEXT shift is to become so completely at ease with the competitive technique (for want of a better name) that one gets the floor-craft back - in spades. Being able to move freely with a large repertoire means being able to make the most of whatever space there is.

 

Social and Competitive CAN mix, we do it on a regular basis (or did anyway), the only problem being that the Competitives don't enjoy it very much unless there is a little bit of elbow room! Unfortunately I doubt that's a realistic expectation on a ship.

 

KenQE2

 

 

Footnote:

 

I do apologise for the "verbal diarrhea", message boards are my only real conversation.

[KenQE2]

I pride myself that I can now lead a partner around the most crowded dance floor with no bumps or hassle to other dancers. But the "good dancers" just dance where their routine takes them with no regard to anybody else, and it sure winds me up. Many a time I am faced with a couple reversing into the line of dance when they can clearly see us and giving us no where to go except a check.

There's a couple we come across, think they're the bees knees (or at least he does). Been taking lessons that are too advanced for them. They have a habit of not making enough turn so, for example, a double back-lock from a pivot turn is going against the line of dance instead of normal progression.

 

Having seen it a few times, I just parked us right behind at the critical moment and let him run into us.

;)