The Great UK Latitudes Swindle

[cassie55]

Also, Mr Cockerney, if a cruise goes down in price before final payment, do we get the reduction passed on if we ask, as happens with American bookings? Im booked thru a large "cruise" TA.

 

This has just happened to us. We're booked on a 2 week cruise on the Jade from Venice. Final payment is 2 weeks from today.

 

I was just checking the NCL website and the price has gone down by £750 :eek:. I called my agent and all they can do is cancel the original booking (we lose the deposit) and rebook.

 

It still saves us £550 so that's what we're doing.

[mypleasure]

This has just happened to us. We're booked on a 2 week cruise on the Jade from Venice. Final payment is 2 weeks from today.

 

I was just checking the NCL website and the price has gone down by £750 :eek:. I called my agent and all they can do is cancel the original booking (we lose the deposit) and rebook.

 

It still saves us £550 so that's what we're doing.

 

 

That is fantastic! Go ahead and do it. My cruise has dropped by £400 and my deposit was £400 so I went ahead and made my final payment last week.

 

ALL future cruises will be booked via Miami and I am more than happy to forego my rights under the European Package Travel Regulations since they offer little or no cover to me as I book all my travel seperately.

[cassie55]

That is fantastic! Go ahead and do it. My cruise has dropped by £400 and my deposit was £400 so I went ahead and made my final payment last week.

 

ALL future cruises will be booked via Miami and I am more than happy to forego my rights under the European Package Travel Regulations since they offer little or no cover to me as I book all my travel seperately.

 

I normally book through a US agent but for some reason I didn't this time - there wasn't much difference in price and I thought it would be easier to stick to a UK agent.

 

The European Package Travel Regulations don't affect us - I work for an airline so only book the cruise anyway and use my passes to fly standby to wherever we need to.

 

Still, I'm happy with the £550 savings. That's my spending money (don't tell my husband ;))

[mypleasure]

Back to the original question.

 

Do I think Latitudes bonus OBC is a swindle. No

Do I think it is fair to exclude some countries. No

Do I think this is a business decision by NCL. Yes

Can they make such decisions. YES

Why do they do it? Because they can.

Why do Brits pay such inflated prices? Because when we are comparing prices in our currency on UK websites and with UK travel agents ALL cruises are very expensive creating a feeling that those are the ballpark figures. What is more, we pay those prices so no need to reduce them.

 

So, why do cruiselines, not just NCL, treat Brits differnetly? Because they know we pay hugely inflated prices for most things and are used to it. We moan and whine about it but we still pay it. It is up to us to change.

 

My advice to UK cruisers is to consider whether you think you get any benefits from the European Package Tour Regulations. If you think those benefits are worth the extra you are asked to pay then book in the UK. If you don't think those benefits are worth the extra or you are creating your own package, make a call to Miami and book there. Be aware that you are now open to currency fluctuations but you can call to get price drops, OBC offers etc. Buy your insurance and rely on that to help you in times of strife, you would have got the insurance anyway irrespective of where you booked.

[mypleasure]

I normally book through a US agent but for some reason I didn't this time - there wasn't much difference in price and I thought it would be easier to stick to a UK agent.

 

The European Package Travel Regulations don't affect us - I work for an airline so only book the cruise anyway and use my passes to fly standby to wherever we need to.

 

Still, I'm happy with the £550 savings. That's my spending money (don't tell my husband ;))

 

 

Someone else who understands these regulations and how they really work.

 

Enjoy spending the extra cash.

 

I don't know what got into me booking my cruise with a UK agent. The prices worked out about the same at that time so, like yourself, I thought it would be easier. The first thing they did was not apply my cruise reward certificate. NCL confirms I still have 2. They gave me a discount of £150 in lieu of making a call to NCL and having it applied. Secondly they charged me £400 deposit which is non refundable and leaves me with no room for manoeuvre. Thirdly I made final payment on 7th March for a cruise leaving on June 19th. I got no OBC or even a bottle of wine in all of this.

 

I am kicking myself big time for being so stupid, stupid, stupid.

[glojo]

I genuinely feel that this continual reference to our EU laws is a complete red herring and as far as I am aware the instances when a legitimate claim can be made against a cruise company are very limited. I am still awaiting a response regarding my post relating to the Acme Cruise Company.

 

We could make the example even more simple. If an American forum member books a cruise on a ship departing from Florida and that ship develops serious engine problems which prevent it from sailing then are we saying that Americans then loose everything and they have no way of claiming back their costs of that cruise?

 

It will take exceptional circumstances for us Europeans to get full refunds and I am still waiting for my questions to be answered regarding the points I have put forward when it comes to American cruisers being compensated.

 

Totally agree with you and the bottom line is we all make choices in life :)

Do I think Latitudes bonus OBC is a swindle. No

Do I think it is fair to exclude some countries. No

Do I think this is a business decision by NCL. Yes

Can they make such decisions. YES

Why do they do it? Because they can.

Why do Brits pay such inflated prices? Because when we are comparing prices in our currency on UK websites and with UK travel agents ALL cruises are very expensive creating a feeling that those are the ballpark figures. What is more, we pay those prices so no need to reduce them.

[HokiePoq]

Did you get any reason(other than not being in U.S.) for being excluded from Latitudes benefits? I cannot think of any reason that would justify not giving all paying passengers the same access to benefits.

Good luck with this! There are many UK passengers and I'd think management would want to keep it that way.

[Mooder]

I genuinely feel that this continual reference to our EU laws is a complete red herring and as far as I am aware the instances when a legitimate claim can be made against a cruise company are very limited. I am still awaiting a response regarding my post relating to the Acme Cruise Company.

 

 

Many of us are simply reacting to we have so often been told in other threads about the EU laws. I'm feeling as though they are described one way when it is to the advantage of the customer and another way when they are not. My guess is the truth is somewhere in the middle, but so far this thread has not been visited by both ends of the spectrum. I'd love to see that happen so we can get to the bottom of it.

 

If you are correct, then we have been mislead in other threads and I wish we would have heard from you then.

 

But just out of curiousity. None of us is going to solve this mystery for certain, we are just speculating possible explanations for the price and benefit differences.

[glojo]

Many of us are simply reacting to we have so often been told in other threads about the EU laws. I'm feeling as though they are described one way when it is to the advantage of the customer and another way when they are not. My guess is the truth is somewhere in the middle, but so far this thread has not been visited by both ends of the spectrum. I'd love to see that happen so we can get to the bottom of it.

 

If you are correct, then we have been mislead in other threads and I wish we would have heard from you then.

 

But just out of curiousity. None of us is going to solve this mystery for certain, we are just speculating possible explanations for the price and benefit differences.

Hi Mooder,

Please do not get me wrong regarding this EU issue as I am hopefully just trying to get a more balanced picture regarding this issue.

 

Cruising German is quite clearly an authority on this topic and hopefully I am not disagreeing with that person? I am hopefully clarifying some of the points that have been raised, which again I must repeat.. I hope they are not contradicting our German friend.

 

If I am onboard a cruise ship and it fails to visit any ports that have been published in all the cruise brochures that have been printed and made available to everyone.... Then tough, that is all part and parcel of cruising. We cannot go to the courts and cry our eyes out screaming 'foul'

 

If I book an air flight to Florida and as a direct result of a delayed aircraft, I then miss my cruise then that is down to me.... UNLESS the flight is part and parcel of the cruise and came as one package. Hopefully this is what Cruising German has said and if not then hopefully he will make clear any misunderstandings.

 

I am no fan of either the EU or the way EU law often over rules sovereign law but even I must concede that sometimes I guess it has its uses although I would be much happier if the European Courts kept their noses out of my own countries laws :D

 

Whilst you are here is there any chance of answering the points I raised regarding where a US customer stands regarding compensation in the examples I gave please?

 

Regards

John

[Mooder]

Hi Mooder,

Please do not get me wrong regarding this EU issue as I am hopefully just trying to get a more balanced picture regarding this issue.

 

Cruising German is quite clearly an authority on this topic and hopefully I am not disagreeing with that person? I am hopefully clarifying some of the points that have been raised, which again I must repeat.. I hope they are not contradicting our German friend.

 

If I am onboard a cruise ship and it fails to visit any ports that have been published in all the cruise brochures that have been printed and made available to everyone.... Then tough, that is all part and parcel of cruising. We cannot go to the courts and cry our eyes out screaming 'foul'

 

If I book an air flight to Florida and as a direct result of a delayed aircraft, I then miss my cruise then that is down to me.... UNLESS the flight is part and parcel of the cruise and came as one package. Hopefully this is what Cruising German has said and if not then hopefully he will make clear any misunderstandings.

 

I am no fan of either the EU or the way EU law often over rules sovereign law but even I must concede that sometimes I guess it has its uses although I would be much happier if the European Courts kept their noses out of my own countries laws :D

 

Whilst you are here is there any chance of answering the points I raised regarding where a US customer stands regarding compensation in the examples I gave please?

 

Regards

John

 

Thanks for your post, John. In the example you give here (just let me know if I am missing an example you have posted previously), it would appear to me that the EU and the US are the same. If a cruise ship misses ports, we have no recourse. The cruiseline may choose to offer compensation, but my understanding that they have no obligation pursuant to the contract. What I have been lead to believe is that pursuant to EU law, if the missed port or ports was due to a mechanical failrue, as opposed to weather conditions, EU passengers would be entitled to a refund. I am not comfortable speaking for anyone, but that is the impression I was given.

 

Same with your flight examples. What you describes the same as what we have here.

[glojo]

Same with your flight examples. What you describes the same as what we have here.

Hi Mooder,

Just listening to the news regarding attacks on Libya so apologies form the delay.

 

It looks to me like we have very similar laws regarding consumer protection and my guess is nthat we might all be listening too much to what I describe as 'lower deck lawyers' that will always advise folks to sue for compensation even though the reality is that compensation would arrive just before the QEII orbits the Moon :)

 

A ship that breaks down as a direct result of mechanical failure would I guess be a grey area and I am guessing there is a possibility that once more our laws MIGHT be similar. If a ship missed a port because an engine broke down then I we are in the hands of a goodwill gesture which may or may not be forth coming but could we sue the company?? I would hate to be the person that tried as I fear it might be a very expensive act of folly.

 

If after six days of a fourteen day cruise the ship had to be towed into a port and could not proceed any further with that cruise then that would be a different ball game and I imagine this might be similar in your beautiful country?

 

Going way, way off topic to highlight the reasons why I dislike European law.... If I get convicted in an Englkish court of the most vile crime you can imagine and I decide to appeal... I appeal all the way through our judicial system and each time my appeal is dismissed, then I can go to the European courts to make a final appeal and judges from any appointed European country can over-rule the guilty verdict and their decision is final!! That to me is plain wrong and an insult to the sovereign state that tried the case, but that is going way off topic and my thoughts regarding the consumer issues that this thread is discussing is just a smoke screen that is causing confusion.

 

Americans appear to be offered cruises at cheaper prices than some other countries but so what? :) I have been reading another thread where our colonial friends from 'Down Under' are also paying cheaper prices than what we are paying.

 

Look at my face!

 

Am I bothered?

 

!

[Mooder]

Hi Mooder,

It looks to me like we have very similar laws regarding consumer protection and my guess is nthat we might all be listening too much to what I describe as 'lower deck lawyers' that will always advise folks to sue for compensation even though the reality is that compensation would arrive just before the QEII orbits the Moon :)!

 

Hi, John. Thanks again. I am all too familiar with the concept of lower deck lawyers although I have never heard that term before. The over-litigious attitude in this country makes it hard on the attorneys with integrity who actually out number the more well known snakes.

 

My best friend lived in England for many many years so I have been aware for years how much more expensive travel was for her. But luckily for me, it meant I was the one who travelled to visit more frequently. :) I have loved all my visits to the UK.

 

You have a great atittude about the issue.

 

I confess I didn't know about the EU role on your criminal justice system and can understand why it is disturbing!

 

My best wishes go out to the Libyan people!

[mypleasure]

 

If I am onboard a cruise ship and it fails to visit any ports that have been published in all the cruise brochures that have been printed and made available to everyone.... Then tough, that is all part and parcel of cruising. We cannot go to the courts and cry our eyes out screaming 'foul'

 

If I book an air flight to Florida and as a direct result of a delayed aircraft, I then miss my cruise then that is down to me.... UNLESS the flight is part and parcel of the cruise and came as one package. Hopefully this is what Cruising German has said and if not then hopefully he will make clear any misunderstandings.

 

I am no fan of either the EU or the way EU law often over rules sovereign law but even I must concede that sometimes I guess it has its uses although I would be much happier if the European Courts kept their noses out of my own countries laws :D

 

 

Regards

John

 

Exactly the way I see it too John.

 

The regulations were created years ago to prevent travel companies from printing fake pictures and ridiculous promises in the brochures and then not delivering on what they contracted to deliver. You know, half built Spanish hotels back in the 1970's etc.

 

From what I remember of the thread last summer what you say, and I have also said is exactly what cruisin German said. So, this is not the explanation as to why British bookings with NCL UK are treated differently.

 

I wish Europe would keep out of our business too.

 

Jean

[Froggitt]

Indeed. Let them stick to measuring bananas.

[insidecabin]

Not read the full thread but there are options with NCL.

Whenever looking at NCL always check all three main booking options.

 

The prices and deals change with offers at different times in different reagions

get yourself a PCC in each region

 

http://www.ncl.com

http://www.ncl.co.uk

http://www.ncl.eu

 

Currently there are great Lattitudes OBC through .eu

upto $300 for platinum and suites.

 

http://www.ncl.eu/latitudes/index.php

 

 

 

Cruise rewars should work in the UK so act as full cabin deposit don't accept that they don't and pay more(except excluded grades).

[Crown Prince]

OP: I do understand your disappointment, but as you have seen, things are totally different when booking from the US. I am not clear on why, but they always have been.

 

Perhaps I can help clear it up. There is so much misinformation here. All cruise lines follow the same "Policy." It is part of their "Terms and Conditions."

That is: The cruise lines do not want the U.S. Travel Agents competing with those in other countries.

It has nothing to do with any European insurance laws. The cruise lines want to give all Travel Agents a chance on the Free Market.

If you have an address in the U.S., any nationality can book with an American Travel Agent.

Cruise lines are just trying to be fair.

 

:D:D;):D:D

[Crown Prince]

Face... bothered

The Catherine Tate Show - Tony Blair

 

OMG - That is so hilarious. Thank U.

[Crown Prince]

I genuinely feel that this continual reference to our EU laws is a complete red herring and as far as I am aware the instances when a legitimate claim can be made against a cruise company are very limited. I am still awaiting a response regarding my post relating to the Acme Cruise Company.

We could make the example even more simple. If an American forum member books a cruise on a ship departing from Florida and that ship develops serious engine problems which prevent it from sailing then are we saying that Americans then loose everything and they have no way of claiming back their costs of that cruise?

It will take exceptional circumstances for us Europeans to get full refunds and I am still waiting for my questions to be answered regarding the points I have put forward when it comes to American cruisers being compensated.

 

RED Herring is correct!

When a port is missed because of weather, all pax are refunded the port charges.

When it is caused by a mechanical failure of the ship, compensation is given to all pax the same.

Remember (I think it was earlier this year) when the Carnival Splendor (off Mexico) lost all power and they only had emergency lights and no flushing loos for 24 hours?

Splendor finally had to be towed and pushed back to San Diego to be fixed, and she ended up in Dry Dock for about a month. The cause was a real mystery. Even though the pax had already enjoyed a couple of days cruising, Carnival stepped up to the plate and was very generous to give:

1. Complete refund of the entire cruise fare.

2. Arrangement of FREE flights back home.

3. Free Hotels were provided before flights.

4. A future cruise credit was given.

5. Free drinks (all kinds) for the last 24 hours.

The USS Ronald Reagan came to the rescue, dropping food and disposable dishes (no hot water).

All that pax lost was their vacation (Holiday) Days off work.

Cruise lines are very embarrassed when something like this happens and, although it cost Carnival a bunch of dough, they bought priceless Good Will.

The Cruise Director, John (forgot his last name) had a great blog about keeping everyone's spirits up. Pity the people in the inside cabins with no lights.

The C.D., John, a Brit with a great sense of humour, told in his blog about washing out his 2 pair of underwear and surviving on candy bars (he is diabetic) while broadcasting from the Captain's Deck.

 

[Froggitt]

Perhaps I can help clear it up. There is so much misinformation here. All cruise lines follow the same "Policy." It is part of their "Terms and Conditions."

That is: The cruise lines do not want the U.S. Travel Agents competing with those in other countries.

It has nothing to do with any European insurance laws. The cruise lines want to give all Travel Agents a chance on the Free Market.

If you have an address in the U.S., any nationality can book with an American Travel Agent.

Cruise lines are just trying to be fair.

 

 

:D:D;):D:D

More misinformation. NCL does allow UK residents booking with US travel agents. Its the likes of RCCL that dont. Now which one of those is being fair?

[Mooder]

Another disparity?? Maybe some consolation - I just learned that I would be charged $75 by NCL for transport to the Rome airport following my cruise. An Irish cruiser on my roll call was quoted 15 BPS - about $24! That's a big difference for the same ride to the airport. :confused:

[smeyer418]

remember just because someone discriminates doesn't mean its illegal. Having women's and men's toilets separate(with different number of stalls) is a discrimination but something most people don't complain about. Its illegal in the US to discriminate on the basis of one's country of origin but not where you live.

discrimination takes place all the time. You chose some one else choses its the same thing but that doesn't make it illegal. Is it wrong? it depends on whose ox is gored. If it means that all prices have to be the same(and the US one must rise), then you will see how it effects a company who doesn't sell the same cruises the same way....

It is still that more than 60%(and its higher for NCL) of cruisers are from the US....with the UK-ers about 25% and the rest of the world the remainder... So its an economic issue and a competitive one but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be annoyed if it was me that had to pay more or not get the credit...