Journey Oct 12th/13th 2011 Docked Seville

[tgg]

 

Also, I will reconfirm with our deployment director that our scheduled time in Cadiz is indeed accurate since some of you have found that it does not match the port authority’s schedule. Based on my experience, I’ve learned that not all the schedules shown on port websites are accurate since they usually are not updated on a daily basis.

 

With reference to port websites: Last fall we received our Azamara documents stating that we were leaving from the main cruise terminal in Venice rather than San Basilio. We'd sailed from Venice on both Oceania and Azamara and had left from San Basilio. I checked the port's website and it said San Basilio. I called both Azamara and my travel agent and was told that the port website was wrong. I guess I had more confidence in the Port of Venice than in Azamara at that time because I insisted it was San Basilio. The end of the story is that Azamara sent out an email THE DAY BEFORE THE SAILING saying that we were leaving from San Basilio. Of course that didn't help the people who took the very expensive water taxis from the airport, or the people who were already en route. My fellow passengers didn't understand how Azamara could get it wrong. Neither could I. This is deja vu all over again, as someone once humorously remarked.

[fla742]

With reference to port websites: Last fall we received our Azamara documents stating that we were leaving from the main cruise terminal in Venice rather than San Basilio. We'd sailed from Venice on both Oceania and Azamara and had left from San Basilio. I checked the port's website and it said San Basilio. I called both Azamara and my travel agent and was told that the port website was wrong. I guess I had more confidence in the Port of Venice than in Azamara at that time because I insisted it was San Basilio. The end of the story is that Azamara sent out an email THE DAY BEFORE THE SAILING saying that we were leaving from San Basilio. Of course that didn't help the people who took the very expensive water taxis from the airport, or the people who were already en route. My fellow passengers didn't understand how Azamara could get it wrong. Neither could I. This is deja vu all over again, as someone once humorously remarked.

 

How typical!

Bill is "... confident that through our actions we might be successful in changing your opinion about how we manage the pre-cruise process.". Sorry Bill all this mix-up does is confirm my opinion.

[baldmtn517]

The original subject of this thread is where Journey is docking on its Oct 4th cruise--Seville or Cadiz. With no disrespect to other similar or related criticisms or complaints that have been raised, our questions have yet to be answered and our cruise is months away. We still have a chance to reach a better conclusion this time.

 

In that spirit here's a simple proposal for resolving the Seville/Cadiz port issue.

 

----------- ----------- ----------- -----------

 

Bill,

 

It seems as if you now have our questions covered, and thank you for your efforts to get us answers. And it's great to learn that both AZ ships can reach Seville.

 

As I understand it, ports of call on any cruise are always subject to change. If that is so, is there any reason we couldn't still be rerouted from Cadiz to Seville?

 

Here are a few points to consider about making such a change:

 

• We are still about 6 months out, which would seem to be plenty of lead time to reschedule ports.

 

• Cadiz is a picturesque and delightful place as many have posted; but whichever port we use, our stated destination has always been Seville.

 

• Since all of the documents already showed us docking in Seville, fewer passengers will actually have unmet expectations than if we dock in Cadiz.

 

• No shore excursions from Cadiz have been offered, but some passengers (like me) have already booked Seville tours that would have to cancelled.

 

• We would probably find more to do after docking at 9 or 10pm in Seville than we would docking at 8pm in Cadiz.

 

• Being able to start touring Seville early the next morning would certainly allow us to see much more of it--even if we had to disembark from Seville a couple of hours earlier than we would from Cadiz.

 

• The travel time alone from Cadiz and back—3 to 4 hours by car or bus—reduces tour time in Seville by half a day.

 

• Lottie A also warned than trying to tour Seville from Cadiz could have worse outcomes:

 

We were there [Cadiz] in February and the weather was glorious. We were glad we elected to stay in Cadiz because people who took a trip to Seville told us that they actually only had about an hour there, because the traffic was so bad on the way that it took them much longer than normal to get there - due to road works I think. :(

 

Wouldn't this be a terrific accommodation for AZ to make in response to all of this confusion????? What s happy ending to all of this!! It would be totally fantastic!!! <grin>

 

It would certainly earn a lot of good will from me, and I'm certain from many others as well.

 

It couldn't hurt for you to ask, Bill. How about giving it a try?

 

Grateful for your efforts!

 

Best,

Dave G

[Jade13]

The original subject of this thread is where Journey is docking on its Oct 4th cruise--Seville or Cadiz.

 

Best,

Dave G

 

I thought Bill confirmed,

 

"It’s Cadiz.

I checked with our deployment director who confirmed that we will overnight for 24 hours in Cadiz during the Azamara Journey’s Oct 4 – 15, 2011 voyage, Rome to Lisbon."

[baldmtn517]

He did. But when he learned we were continuing to receive conflicting information, he told us he would check again with other AZ dept heads.

 

Bill also confirmed that both AZ ships can and do sail up the Guadalquivir and dock in Seville, something some of us were unsure was even possible.

 

That led me to thinking that there is still a way to have a positive outcome. AZ could rectify all the confusion and disappointment by deciding now to sail to Seville as they originally advertised and informed us.

 

So my subject is still about where we are going to dock. :D

[baldmtn517]

Thank you, Jade13, I'm sorry if I have somehow troubled you or caused you any concern. I appreciate your experience and hear what you're saying.

Sure it's a long shot, but I'm still willing to put in the effort.

 

Are you booked on this cruise, too?

[Bill Leiber]

Bill, just when I thought everything was sorted.....I received an email today advising me that we will be mooring and overnighting in Seville!! The problem clearly hasn't been solved. I assume you're correct but I would appreciate your comments. Well, some of them at least.

Hello nuneham,

 

With respect to that email advising you about overnighting in Seville, I would appreciate if you could forward it to me so that we can determine its source: bleiber@azamaraclubcruises.com.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Bill Leiber

_____________________

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

[nuneham]

Apologies for the delay, Bill, I've been away for a couple of days. Will get that to you today. And perhaps the first email saying the same thing. I agree with the suggestion that, as it's possible, we should dock in Seville. As I've said before, it is standard practice to name the port if the ship does not dock in the city itself. That is the case with Rome, Florence and Granada on our itinerary. For Seville it has always appeared that we docked in Seville itself and that is what we signed up for.

[Bill Leiber]

Hello again,

 

I’ve been thinking about this thread for the last few days and it occurred to me that perhaps your comments revealed at their core two underlying concerns:

1. Will Azamara ever get its act together to conduct is shoreside operation as well as it does with its onboard experience?

2. Is Azamara’s itinerary planner really in control of the process since some of your comments and internet searches seemed to me to indicate that a few of you “arm-chair” itinerary experts might have doubts?

 

DISJOINTED SHORESIDE OPERATION:

As I’ve stated every time I respond to comments about how poorly we conducted our internal operation, our goal is to deliver a “seamless” guest experience that exceeds expectations on both land and sea. Each time we learn about an error, it provide us with an opportunity to locate the specific communication breakdown and to set up a new process to avoid its recurrence. I trust that I still have some credibility when I say that I’m confident that we will achieve our “seamless” goal but it is going to take some more time. I can assure you that Larry Pimentel and his executive team are aware of these of these communication breakdowns and are working with the “shared” service providers to fix each mistake one at a time.

 

Unfortunately, this thread clearly indicates that we have more work to do with mastering the art of operating with “shared” corporate services for the three Royal Caribbean Corporation’s brands and multiple worldwide marketing and reservation offices. It is this concept of “shared services” that provides Azamara and the two brands with cost advantages and marketing economies of scale but at the same time - operating challenges.

 

Thanks to”nuneham” in the UK, we learned that the email was sent by someone in our UK office in response to an earlier itinerary question. It’s fair to note that the email content reflected the exact information that was shown in the company’s shared reservation system for Azamara. Therefore, the system is being changed to show Cadiz (Seville) as we do for Livorno (Florence).

 

ITINERARY ISSUES:Azamara Club Cruises deployment and destination expert is Claudius Docekal who has over 22 years experience in that specialty. When Larry Pimentel left SeaDream to lead the separate management group for the “new” Azamara Club Cruises, Claudius was one of the first that he asked to join his new team. Larry considers him the perfect-fit to develop destination immersion – not only is he a master of the technical aspects, he know the highlights of the sights and how to navigate in most worldwide ports.

 

Here is a summary of what I’ve learned from him about Cadiz/Seville and I’m pleased to share it with you:

 Azamara is the only brand in the Royal Caribbean family that is capable of docking at Seville. Any ship larger than ours will have to call at Cadiz for Seville...it is quite common among most other ships to call Cadiz for Seville.

 A new lock that has been installed on the river that makes it even possible for us to sail up there has only been in operation for a few months. I believe since November 2010.

 Since itinerary planning for the 2011 voyages around Spain that include Cadiz/Seville occurs usually about two years prior, Azamara had no guarantee that the lock would be completed and operational in time so to avoid the risk of advertising Seville and then learning that the lock was not completed, so we published Cadiz in our brochure.

 There is still an issue with the air draft when sailing to Seville! Just before reaching Seville, there is still one cable across the river that hangs too low for us to pass. They were supposed to have moved it underground (under the river). But that was too expensive so they are going to raise it higher. But it is still not high enough for us to pass and they are STILL working on raising it even higher so that eventually....sometime in 2011, ships with our air draft can indeed pass.

 Because the cable work has not yet been completed, the prudent decision was to include Cadiz in the brochure. That means that baldmtn517’s clever suggestion could not even be considered as an option.

 The actual new arrival time in Cadiz on 12 Oct 2011 is 2100 hrs (9:00 pm) docked near the city center and we have no control over the port web sites.

 Travel time between Cadiz and Seville:

a. One Way - It takes a coach about only 90 minutes from Cadiz to Seville vs. about six hours for the ship plus with the need to wait for the right tide height too.

b. Total round trip is 3 hours by coach and 12 hours for the ship. Consequently, a lot of time has to be allocated for the tides before and after sailing up there in addition to the six hours. These times come at the expense of time in port spent in Seville and the ports before and after the Seville call.

As an “arm chair” itinerary planner myself, I’ve learned from his comments that there are a lot more variables to consider with deployment than merely linking A with B and I’m sure we are grateful for his time and his thorough explanation.

 

SHORE EXCURSIONS:

Go to the Shore Excursion tab on our website. In the “Keyword Search” enter 'Seville (Cadiz)' and you’ll find eight different tours offering Cadiz and Seville and Jerez.

 

I hope this information is helpful.

 

Regards,

 

Bill Leiber

_____________________

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

[baldmtn517]

Thank you, Bill. I truly appreciate such a clear and concrete response. I'm disappointed, but much better informed. :)

 

Had no idea that traveling by river would add anywhere near as much as 12 hours. Did know that ideally the drive to Seville and back is 3 hours, but I have been warned that traffic and road conditions can often add hours to that. And I think you saw the posting by Lottie A. (already downloaded train schedules if anybody else wants)

 

We'll miss seeing flamenco in its home town, Seville, but there Cadiz does have one flamenco tablao. With an 8pm docking we could catch that show, is there any way to keep to the original schedule? Any change to the time we leave Cadiz?

 

thanks again . . .

[fla742]

Hello again,

 

I’ve been thinking about this thread for the last few days and it occurred to me that perhaps your comments revealed at their core two underlying concerns:

1. Will Azamara ever get its act together to conduct is shoreside operation as well as it does with its onboard experience?

2. Is Azamara’s itinerary planner really in control of the process since some of your comments and internet searches seemed to me to indicate that a few of you “arm-chair” itinerary experts might have doubts?

 

DISJOINTED SHORESIDE OPERATION:

As I’ve stated every time I respond to comments about how poorly we conducted our internal operation, our goal is to deliver a “seamless” guest experience that exceeds expectations on both land and sea. Each time we learn about an error, it provide us with an opportunity to locate the specific communication breakdown and to set up a new process to avoid its recurrence. I trust that I still have some credibility when I say that I’m confident that we will achieve our “seamless” goal but it is going to take some more time. I can assure you that Larry Pimentel and his executive team are aware of these of these communication breakdowns and are working with the “shared” service providers to fix each mistake one at a time.

 

Unfortunately, this thread clearly indicates that we have more work to do with mastering the art of operating with “shared” corporate services for the three Royal Caribbean Corporation’s brands and multiple worldwide marketing and reservation offices. It is this concept of “shared services” that provides Azamara and the two brands with cost advantages and marketing economies of scale but at the same time - operating challenges.

 

Thanks to”nuneham” in the UK, we learned that the email was sent by someone in our UK office in response to an earlier itinerary question. It’s fair to note that the email content reflected the exact information that was shown in the company’s shared reservation system for Azamara. Therefore, the system is being changed to show Cadiz (Seville) as we do for Livorno (Florence).

 

ITINERARY ISSUES:Azamara Club Cruises deployment and destination expert is Claudius Docekal who has over 22 years experience in that specialty. When Larry Pimentel left SeaDream to lead the separate management group for the “new” Azamara Club Cruises, Claudius was one of the first that he asked to join his new team. Larry considers him the perfect-fit to develop destination immersion – not only is he a master of the technical aspects, he know the highlights of the sights and how to navigate in most worldwide ports.

 

Here is a summary of what I’ve learned from him about Cadiz/Seville and I’m pleased to share it with you:

 Azamara is the only brand in the Royal Caribbean family that is capable of docking at Seville. Any ship larger than ours will have to call at Cadiz for Seville...it is quite common among most other ships to call Cadiz for Seville.

 A new lock that has been installed on the river that makes it even possible for us to sail up there has only been in operation for a few months. I believe since November 2010.

 Since itinerary planning for the 2011 voyages around Spain that include Cadiz/Seville occurs usually about two years prior, Azamara had no guarantee that the lock would be completed and operational in time so to avoid the risk of advertising Seville and then learning that the lock was not completed, so we published Cadiz in our brochure.

 There is still an issue with the air draft when sailing to Seville! Just before reaching Seville, there is still one cable across the river that hangs too low for us to pass. They were supposed to have moved it underground (under the river). But that was too expensive so they are going to raise it higher. But it is still not high enough for us to pass and they are STILL working on raising it even higher so that eventually....sometime in 2011, ships with our air draft can indeed pass.

 Because the cable work has not yet been completed, the prudent decision was to include Cadiz in the brochure. That means that baldmtn517’s clever suggestion could not even be considered as an option.

 The actual new arrival time in Cadiz on 12 Oct 2011 is 2100 hrs (9:00 pm) docked near the city center and we have no control over the port web sites.

 Travel time between Cadiz and Seville:

a. One Way - It takes a coach about only 90 minutes from Cadiz to Seville vs. about six hours for the ship plus with the need to wait for the right tide height too.

b. Total round trip is 3 hours by coach and 12 hours for the ship. Consequently, a lot of time has to be allocated for the tides before and after sailing up there in addition to the six hours. These times come at the expense of time in port spent in Seville and the ports before and after the Seville call.

As an “arm chair” itinerary planner myself, I’ve learned from his comments that there are a lot more variables to consider with deployment than merely linking A with B and I’m sure we are grateful for his time and his thorough explanation.

 

SHORE EXCURSIONS:

Go to the Shore Excursion tab on our website. In the “Keyword Search” enter 'Seville (Cadiz)' and you’ll find eight different tours offering Cadiz and Seville and Jerez.

 

I hope this information is helpful.

 

Regards,

 

Bill Leiber

_____________________

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

 

 

Bill -

 

Just thought you'd like to know that as of 9pm EDT the Azamara web site is still showing Seville NOT Seville (Cadiz). The shore excursions are also for Seville.

 

'nuf said.

[nuneham]

Thank you, Bill, for your clear, open and detailed response. I'm also disappointed but I'll get over it and I know that the onboard experience will be fabulous. BUT I've just looked at Shore Excursions through my reservation and there's still a Classical Seville excursion with a duration of 3 hours - about long enough to drive there and back.

[fla742]

Bill -

 

I'm so glad you think this problem has been solved.

 

Just thought you'd like to know that as of 8:55 pm 4/14/11 approximately 50 hours after your post about it definitely being Cadiz the web site is still showing Seville.

 

Do you still wonder why I question corporate competence?.

[Bill Leiber]

Bill -

 

I'm so glad you think this problem has been solved.

 

Just thought you'd like to know that as of 8:55 pm 4/14/11 approximately 50 hours after your post about it definitely being Cadiz the web site is still showing Seville.

 

Do you still wonder why I question corporate competence?.

Hi fla742 –

 

This example of management not being able to execute in real time a simple copy change, i.e., “Seville” to “Cadiz (Seville),” would certainly make one question its ability to control its resources. You’ve just put your finger on the crux of the challenge for us to manage the reservation system which all three brands share. Frankly, I never expected that it would be changed immediately, that’s why I stated “…the system is being changed” to allow a window of time rather than be specific.

 

We are making some progress with creating our “own” system within a larger system, and I’m confident that we’ll be able to accelerate our progress.

 

I do appreciate you sharing this example and I will keep you in mind with issues such as these.

 

Bill Leiber

_____________________

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)