If You Can't Beat 'em Join Them........

[NMLady]

For those new to cruising and these forums and for those who've been around as long as there've been cruise ships (or so it seems :D), is it really worth it anymore to fight the fight?

 

Is there some issue about cruising that is so important you are ready, willing and able to fight it to the last word because you really want something to disappear so much or you want it to continue, so much?

 

I don't want this to turn into that fight, that isn't the point but I know I, for one, am tired of fighting about certain issues and somehow they just don't matter enough to me anymore to bother. Maybe I've changed my philosophy, maybe I'm reacting to the world around me and see some of it is so unimportant by comparison to the real world issues of today or am I just getting older and tired? :D

 

I think there's only one battle I'll continue to voice strong opinions about and everyone here knows what that is........ puff puff. ;)

 

Anyone else throwing in the towel on the liquor smuggling issues, the tipping threads, the dress code, the chair saving, the line cutting, the other niddly things we argue about over and over again?

 

If only one issue still really matters to you, which is it?

 

My only issue is that I wish if HAL, and other cruise lines, has rules, then I'd lobby for all those rules to be CLEARLY written and that there would be a HAL 'sargent at arms' on each ship to enforce those rules. I think that would cut down on a lot of the nattering here on CC. If someone wants the rules changed, WRITE TO HAL INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING HERE ABOUT THE RULES.

[English_in_Spain]

I think it is very difficult for those of us who have been cruising for several years to accept that things are changing. However, we must accept that with cruising, as with everything else in life, things will change.

 

As stated previously, the one thing that annoys me is when there are rules and the cruise line does not enforce those rules. I don’t mind what the rules are – I accept them when I book the cruise – but please cruise lines enforce those rules.

 

As for here on Cruise Critic, I read lots of the controversial threads and smile and try not to post. Sometimes I cannot resist.

 

I am just thankful that there is a community such as CC that allows me to discuss cruising, no matter what the subject, with other like-minded people without driving my non-cruising friends mad.

 

I have been on here for just over 3 years and feel I have made many friends who I have not yet met but hope to meet someday.

 

[sail7seas]

nmlady:

 

My only issue is that I wish if HAL, and other cruise lines, has rules, then I'd lobby for all those rules to be CLEARLY written and that there would be a HAL 'sargent at arms' on each ship to enforce those rules. I think that would cut down on a lot of the nattering here on CC. If someone wants the rules changed, WRITE TO HAL INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING HERE ABOUT THE RULES.

 

 

 

 

I once asked a HAL Hotel Manager why the rules are not enforced. His answer was, with the exception of matters of safety or health, they are in the hospitality business and are not in the business of fighting with their guests. Those who flaunt the rules the worst and should be dealt with more firmly are often the ones who came with the attitude to 'challenge' them and make a big stink. This is not the man who didn't wear a tie, it is the guy who shows up at the dining room in shorts, hero t shirt, baseball cap or whatever clearly inappropriate dress. They are just looking and waiting for the fight and the scene.

 

This was one hotel manager and he spoke only for himself, I imagine, but he certainly made sense.

 

[Gunther1]

I assume that those that say they always follow all rules also:

 

-never drive a single mile over the speed limit

-never walk against a red light or start walking when the "don't walk" light is flashing

-always make a compete (not a rolling) stop at every stop sign/light

-never have eight items in a "seven items or less" lane at the grocery store.

 

I think you get my point :).

 

John 8:7

[sail7seas]

I think it is very difficult for those of us who have been cruising for several years to accept that things are changing. However, we must accept that with cruising, as with everything else in life, things will change.

 

As stated previously, the one thing that annoys me is when there are rules and the cruise line does not enforce those rules. I don’t mind what the rules are – I accept them when I book the cruise – but please cruise lines enforce those rules.

 

As for here on Cruise Critic, I read lots of the controversial threads and smile and try not to post. Sometimes I cannot resist.

 

I am just thankful that there is a community such as CC that allows me to discuss cruising, no matter what the subject, with other like-minded people without driving my non-cruising friends mad.

 

I have been on here for just over 3 years and feel I have made many friends who I have not yet met but hope to meet someday.

 

 

 

I actually like some of the changes quite a lot. Certainly not all but many are okay by me. We've been cruising HAL since about 1991 and have seen many things go by the wayside that we miss but we have also seen so many new and wonderful things added. All in all, I think HAL has reached a good balance, for the most part, and with some exception, we still love what HAL does.

 

I'm grateful we have been able to be flexible enough to accept that which we must and learn to actually flow with most of the changes..... with some exceptions.

 

[babyher]

I once asked a HAL Hotel Manager why the rules are not enforced. His answer was, with the exception of matters of safety or health, they are in the hospitality business and are not in the business of fighting with their guests. Those who flaunt the rules the worst and should be dealt with more firmly are often the ones who came with the attitude to 'challenge' them and make a big stink. This is not the man who didn't wear a tie, it is the guy who shows up at the dining room in shorts, hero t shirt, baseball cap or whatever clearly inappropriate dress. They are just looking and waiting for the fight and the scene.

 

This was one hotel manager and he spoke only for himself, I imagine, but he certainly made sense.

 

 

 

It sounds like being a parent. You pick your battles .

 

Of course you enforce the life threatening stuff , but when you get "Challenged", you have to consider how challengeing you want to get.

[fann1sh]

Whether people drive over the speed limit in "real life" has nothing to do with cruise ship guidelines, or being a "rigid rule follower". Cruising is about making choices. And a cruise choice is a package deal.

 

Some people find a HAL cruise they want to take. They can't find that cruise on their favourite cruise.

 

Their favourite line has a policy they like for "----" (usually, not necessarily, dress code). HAL does not.

 

They have 2 options.

 

A: Go on the cruise, roll with the punches, and observe/not whine about policy "----".

 

B: Go on the cruise, and ignore policy "----" and do exactly as they would if they were on their preferred cruise line.

 

Nothing can prevent anyone from being a Option B person.

 

And, I'm over that.

 

But when they come to this board to crow/taunt about planning Option B, I have no problem with pointing out:

 

Option A is what adults do.

 

Option B is what children do.

 

To be a HAL cruiser, I've had to be an Option A person about smoking. And, that's tougher than throwing a tie in your suitcase.

[Gunther1]

I disagree strongly. Driving over the speed limit is also a choice.

[fann1sh]

I disagree strongly. Driving over the speed limit is also a choice.

 

 

Feel free to disagree. But, if I understand your argument, it's that only people who've never broken any rule - like speed limits - who can object to anyone breaking any other rule - like dress codes.

 

So, since everyone has broken some rule, anyone can break any rule.

 

 

Instead, how about: when I choose to drive over the speed limit, I choose to accept the ticket I may get for doing so. I may not like it, but it's part of the package deal.

 

Adult.

 

Choices/consequences.

 

Pick a cruise line, take the consequences.

[Gunther1]

This is rather presumptious of you to state, but in any case, I do agree with you that with choice, comes consequences :). Let's not get personal here , ok ?

 

The point I was trying to make (and apparantley not very well) is that my thinking is that I hope that the people that state they are rule followers also don't do any of the things that I listed (speed limit, etc). To do otherwise would be hypocritical. Consistancy is key.

 

 

I am one of those that think that yes, I will accept the consequences of my actions and choices, I also think that not all rules should be followed blindly at all times. In other words, I don't follow all rules (and accept the consequences of that decision). If I speed (but I don't) and were get caught, I would pay the fine.

 

If I don't wear a tie to the MDR on formal night, I would not complain if I were kicked out.

 

I'm just asking for consistancy here :).

[fann1sh]

The phrase you refer to in your headline was indeed out of line, and I apologize for even thinking it.

 

As you can see, I edited it.

 

In an effort to be consistently adult, and not childish.

 

Your thesis is now clear, and makes a valid point.

 

However, it's my perception (and I'm often wrong) most people on CC aren't posting, "You must follow the rule because it's a rule."

 

I believe (did I mention I'm often wrong?) most are posting "HAL gets to make HAL rules. Why cruise HAL and say HAL rules are not for you?"

[Gunther1]

I think we agree .

 

I just hope that those that say HAL makes the rules also realize that governments make the laws re driving and also use the same thinking on those rules...including speeding, etc :). To do less than that would be inconsistant.

[LadyShiva]

I believe (did I mention I'm often wrong?) most are posting "HAL gets to make HAL rules. Why cruise HAL and say HAL rules are not for you?"

 

Because we all weigh pros and cons when we make a choice. I believe I said this before on this thread--I am envious of HAL's itineraries, but I choose my next cruise for the amenities that NCL offers in their suite cabins. The name of the cruiseline isn't "MY Cruise Line"; each CC poster makes an educated decision on what they're willing to trade off to give their next cruiseline their money.

 

I just wish people wouldn't draw lines in the sand so aggressively. It's not like you're persuading each other! I'm half tempted to offer each side Supersoakers full of dyed ice water and a paint ball course--I'll video tape the proceedings from a safe location! ;)

[mamaofami]

Life is short, and some things just aren't worth caring about. The people who post on CC are a very small population of those who cruise HAL and I really don't think our wishes are going to make or break policy.

 

I for one will adapt to changes or decide not to cruise. I do agree with SAIL on the smoking issue. That is one policy I wish HAL would change but I don't think it's going to happen.

[Gunther1]

I absolutely agree :).

[luvs2travl]

Hi Sails!

 

It's been ages since I've posted on CC for all of the reasons you outlined in your original post. I felt myself being pulled into the fray and even getting a bit contentious myself, so I thought it best to just back away for a time, and "get a grip".

 

I couldn't agree more with your post and your sentiment. W-a-y too much going on in our mixed-up world to concern myself with these days than baseball caps worn on board; robes being worn to the pool; what is ( or is not) considered "formal dress"------etc, etc.

 

We continue to cruise, to enjoy the beautiful life at sea, to meet new friends, and to count our blessings in being able to do so. HAL has never disappointed us in any of these respects. It certainly may have something to do with getting older. All I know is that life is too short to be engaged in unnecessary turmoil, IMHO.

 

I hope you & yours are well and have been able to capture many great memories along the way. Please keep that great upbeat and optimistic attitude. I find it makes life so much easier...don't you?

 

Blessings,

 

Nancy

[fann1sh]

LadyShiva, I agree it's a trade off.

 

I'm sorry if you think (since you quoted me) I'm one who should be given a super soaker.

 

If that's because of a certain poll, I'll post when it closes why I did the poll. Not much of the "why" has to do with dress codes.

 

As for drawing lines in the sand: don't you think one person's "aggressive" post is another person's "neutral" post? Like, quoting HAL's website on dress code. Is that neutral or aggressive? I consider it neutral. Others disagree, and have posted it's "stirring the pot".

[LadyShiva]

LadyShiva, I agree it's a trade off.

 

I'm sorry if you think (since you quoted me) I'm one who should be given a super soaker.

 

If that's because of a certain poll, I'll post when it closes why I did the poll. Not much of the "why" has to do with dress codes.

 

As for drawing lines in the sand: don't you think one person's "aggressive" post is another person's "neutral" post? Like, quoting HAL's website on dress code. Is that neutral or aggressive? I consider it neutral. Others disagree, and have posted it's "stirring the pot".

 

I think all people expressing a fervent opinion get a super soaker of equal size. ;)

 

I think posting names was a bit over the top. It definitely drew lines in the sand. Along with the aggressiveness of "actual HAL pax," it was a straight-up turn off for me to participate in this board. I definitely understand why you were aggravated enough to scope the poll in that manner, though.

 

I'm investigating HAL (my mom thinks this cruise line is great for people who like sophisticated and elegant cruises), and I'm greatly enjoying people's reviews with beautiful pictures.

[CowPrincess]

Along with the aggressiveness of "actual HAL pax," it was a straight-up turn off for me to participate in this board. I definitely understand why you were aggravated enough to scope the poll

 

Not sure why anyone would be offended with a poll/pollster trying to limit replies to certain respondents. In real life, most polls/pollsters select based on specific criteria, and IMHO the one you are referencing is no different. For example, I've responded to telephone pollsters who want people with specific recent experience, e.g, have recently used the internet to obtain insurance quotes. For the life of me, I don't see that as offensive. Nor do I see it as offensive when someone requests responses that are based on experience on a cruiseline.

[Taxguy77]

FWIW:

Bathrobes to pool; I'd rather see bathrobes than some of the bathing suits (and occupants) coming at me in the hall. :eek: But I don't want to see them in the Lido.

 

Smoking; I've been both an addict and non-smoker. The two can get along, but it takes a LOT of getting along.

 

Towel animals; I'm not artistic. Just glad I read about them here before my HAL cruise so I knew the messed-up towel on the bed was supposed to look like an animal. :confused:

[sail7seas]

Hi Sails!

 

It's been ages since I've posted on CC for all of the reasons you outlined in your original post. I felt myself being pulled into the fray and even getting a bit contentious myself, so I thought it best to just back away for a time, and "get a grip".

 

I couldn't agree more with your post and your sentiment. W-a-y too much going on in our mixed-up world to concern myself with these days than baseball caps worn on board; robes being worn to the pool; what is ( or is not) considered "formal dress"------etc, etc.

 

We continue to cruise, to enjoy the beautiful life at sea, to meet new friends, and to count our blessings in being able to do so. HAL has never disappointed us in any of these respects. It certainly may have something to do with getting older. All I know is that life is too short to be engaged in unnecessary turmoil, IMHO.

 

I hope you & yours are well and have been able to capture many great memories along the way. Please keep that great upbeat and optimistic attitude. I find it makes life so much easier...don't you?

 

Blessings,

 

Nancy

 

Hi Nancy,

Really good to hear from you and what a nice post. :)

It's just easier to let most of the 'stuff' go....... I'm not sure if I'm getting tired, lazy, ambivalent or all of them? :D

[Koshlong]

I don't think it would make sense for that post to be on the NCL board. The whole point is NCL guests can choose to do whatever... If you care to dress up to a tux and a long sparkly dress with a tiara, go for it--there's even photographers with formal backdrops available for you. If you want a certain table with certain meal companions at a certain time, that can also be accomodated.

 

Granted, I'm a bit biased due to the cabin configurations that NCL has on the Pearl (no, not the purple carpet :eek: --the fact I can lay in a bubble bath and watch the world go by!!), but I think the disdain I'm hearing about NCL on this board might be a bit misplaced. You can arrange to get a lot of what I hear HAL passengers desiring:

- formal wear,

- set dining,

- libraries (I have even used and contributed to the lending library),

- laid back passengers (even the more mature set),

- better food,

- lack of crowds,

- small ships

 

In my humble opinion, I think what HAL has going for it is itineraries. I can't replicate the Viking cruise on NCL--or the Asian cruise, or any of a number of the lovely itineraries that HAL cruisers are choosing. Granted, at the moment, I'm not in place to take advantage of all of these lovely itineraries unless I step into the wind with my mom... and I'm thinking I'm not my mother's first pick of companion for a 30 day cruise! *laughing*

 

Anyway, there's pros and cons for any choice of a cruiseline, and I'm happy to listen and discuss them. I appreciate quite a bit of posts on this board; SwissMyst made a suggestion on the thread the other day about how to get ready for a transatlantic cruise that was a complete light bulb moment for me.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

 

Sorry, Lady Shiva. That wasn't what I meant. I know that NCL is set up as freestyle with lots of pay options, and that's fine. That's what they advertise. This was another line (either Princess or RCI, I think) and they are NOT set up the same. If I sailed on NCL, I'd budget for specialty restaurants, since I wouldn't be paying as much up front. I just don't want to have to do this on other lines that claim to be more traditional.

[LadyShiva]

Sorry, Lady Shiva. That wasn't what I meant. I know that NCL is set up as freestyle with lots of pay options, and that's fine. That's what they advertise. This was another line (either Princess or RCI, I think) and they are NOT set up the same. If I sailed on NCL, I'd budget for specialty restaurants, since I wouldn't be paying as much up front. I just don't want to have to do this on other lines that claim to be more traditional.

 

I understood you didn't read that on NCL. :) I was building off of you saying it wasn't on NCL, but another cruiseline. I was trying to bridge between some negative posts bashing NCL I've seen in the past few days, and what is currently available on NCL. I admit to finding it humorous when we're discussing the (free) MDRs on the NCL ships, and we'd both be found in the specialty (upcharge) restaurants! :p I love the Godzilla sushi roll, and tend to eat at the sushi bar several times each cruise. :D Kiddo wipes out their fresh (non-smoked) salmon supply, while the hubby eats all the spicy rolls.

 

It would be shocking if Princess did away with traditional MDRs... I can only imagine the furor that would erupt! :eek: From what I've read about Princess (admittedly very little, due to their target demographic and cabin designs), their ships aren't set up with the 10-15 different places to eat, right? They're more in line with the Disney idea of fewer, larger dining areas plus a more casual eatery? Is that correct?

[Koshlong]

Yes, that was what I meant. I love that there are enough cruise lines out there to satisfy everyone, and I'd like that not to change!

[LadyShiva]

Yes, that was what I meant. I love that there are enough cruise lines out there to satisfy everyone, and I'd like that not to change!

 

I know I have to do trade-offs whenever I cruise. I know after my latest cruise that heated tile loungers and a separate bedroom (away from DH's snoring ;) ) are a necessity on any cruise I book. I think with HAL, that would mean adjoining balcony cabins (and therefore 2 bathrooms), versus the 2 bedroom configuration that NCL offers.

 

I'm still drooling over HAL's itineraries, though... Gee whiz, those are nice!