On Passenger Drills

[Traveling Bob]

There has been a lot of comments, both posted here and in other media, about the fact that the Costa passengers did not have a muster drill. I don’t believe that it would have helped very much. A 15 minute drill doesn’t make up for poorly trained staff. Having been on many cruises and gone to many drills, I can say that I was never told what to do if my assigned life boat wasn’t functioning because of the listing ship. They tell you to follow instructions of the crew. But it seems that the crew weren’t giving any because they didn’t know what to do. And the fact that everyone was told that it was only an electrical problem certainly didn’t help. Panic was certainly no wonder. Even if there were a drill, can you imagine the situation where a fami ly arrives at a muster station and the father is told to stay on board while his wife and children get on a life boat? This wasn’t discussed in any drill I’ve been in.

The first hand accounts of passengers standing around without any instructions and life boats, both full and empty circling for hours demonstrates that the crew didn’t know what to do in this situation. And a brief muster drill for the passengers wouldn’t have changed this.

[Jimsgirl]

I cruise on Cunard, so can only comment on the muster drill on Cunard. The muster is held BEFORE the ship sails.

 

Yes we gather inside, but we do have to put on our life jackets, crew look to see that people have them on correctly. We are told re , lights on the jackets, whistles, and shown the correct way to exit if the ship if we have to do so into the water, (hand across chest clutching shoulder to prevent life belt from riding up, holding nose shut with other hand so we do not inhale water as we hit).

 

We are told that in the event of an emergency orders to go to the lifeboats/and or abandon ship will be given from the bridge.

 

It does not sound that any of these things were told to the passengers of the Concordia, and certainly it does not sound as though there was directions of any kind from the bridge.

[maldenmusic]

I have only cruised Carnival and the muster drills always occur prior to the ship departing. Guess I will take my drill a little more seriously on my cruise this May instead of always being bored while they are explaining the procedures.

[jgn]

On the five cruises I have taken on Holland American, the muster drills are very serious drills with everyone OUTSIDE at their muster station with life jackets on. We must answer the crewman when he calls out our cabin number.

 

On Regent, we go inside to the Grand salon and listen to crew members describe how to put on the life jackets and where to go to the muster station.

 

On Seabourn we go to the dining room for the same instructions. No ship I've ever cruised on (and there are many) ever told us what to do if there were problems with blackouts, tenders not lowering, etc. Seems to me there should be a bit more of a thorough instruction from Capt. and crew. Just my thoughts.

[mariner]

Back in the 60's and 70's, the ship I sailed on the most held boat drill the next day out of New York. We went to assembly stations (the lounges). This was done, we were told, because in an emergency our lifeboat might not be accesible.

 

The drill was very thorough and lasted about 30 minutes. There was an emphasis on fire, the worst of all maritime disasters.

 

These days when we sail, the drill has gotten shorter and shorter. HAL no longer takes attendance and we no longer wear lifejackets to it because too dam many people kept tripping and falling over the straps.

[boltnut55]

The best I can do is to take the muster drills seriously. I'm hoping that by hearing the instructions over and over again that I would know what to do in an emergency. Obviously, no guarantees, especially if they won't lower the life boats! On all the ships I've been on, we did the drill before we departed and outside with our life jackets on. I remember on 1 ship, one guy wore his life jacket to dinner. Smart man!

[Cruisin D]

I have sailed with Costa a number of times, we where on the Concordia's sister ship the Serena just a few weeks ago.

Anyway, the Costa crew do take the muster dills very seriously and all guests are expected to attend. They normally happen the evening of or the morning after departure. Even when doing B2B2B cruises we have had to attend each muster drill.

 

All the muster drills that I have attended seem to be more of a social catch up for some passengers, I guess it might be the same when we do not always listen to the same sort of advice when we fly!!

 

This being said, when there is an incident as catostrophic as this one, all on board would panic, including the crew, most of them are only young and no amount of training or drills is going to prepare them for 1000's of panicked people yelling, pushing and shoving.

 

This is only my opinion, and my thoughts and prayerd go out to all that have been effected by this.

[beta98beta]

I have only cruised Carnival and the muster drills always occur prior to the ship departing. Guess I will take my drill a little more seriously on my cruise this May instead of always being bored while they are explaining the procedures.

 

Not always. I cruised Carnival in Nov out of New Orleans. Our ship left at midnight due to some issue or another so they postponed our drill until the next morning saying it wouldn't be safe to have folks on deck at night. The next morning they told us all to meet in the lounge. Then they told us they wouldn't be doing the muster because of the early hour and so many people didn't go to bed until late. They just showed us the door to go through in case of emergency but never did the acutal outside drill itself.

 

I've been cruising since 1995 and this was the first time they never completed a muester... after seeing what happened with Costa I've been thinking about it a lot. If I ever cruise again where they decide to skip the muester I'm going to make a stink about it until they do and I don't care how many passengers get pissed at me about it.

[robsaw]

Muster drills are not "training" for passengers. It is basic information that is meant only to provide the minimal amount of information that can be realistically absorbed by a passenger to help contribute to a more orderly evacuation in times of emergency. More detailed muster drills in all probability will not contribute to a more orderly evacuation as the more severe the emergency the more likely the human physiological responses (adrenalin, etc) will make recall and rational processing of that information increasingly poor. It is the crew and officers that are trained that are the key in an orderly evacuation. Unfortunately, we have a rare situation here with shallow waters, a large gash and rapid listing that complicated the situation along with unclear and unsubstantiated allegations of errors in ship handling and evacuation procedures.

[midnight sushi]

could we be forced wearing life jackets to the muster drill again?

[tntornadox]

I do find some of the reports of the crew not knowing or being able to operate the lifeboats... if true, that's a major problem. They should be doing practice drills every week or two. Just look at this great video shot aboard Carnival Valor, showing them lowering and driving lifeboats while at anchor:

 

[ObscureAllure]

Not always. I cruised Carnival in Nov out of New Orleans. Our ship left at midnight due to some issue or another so they postponed our drill until the next morning saying it wouldn't be safe to have folks on deck at night. The next morning they told us all to meet in the lounge. Then they told us they wouldn't be doing the muster because of the early hour and so many people didn't go to bed until late. They just showed us the door to go through in case of emergency but never did the acutal outside drill itself.

 

I've been cruising since 1995 and this was the first time they never completed a muester... after seeing what happened with Costa I've been thinking about it a lot. If I ever cruise again where they decide to skip the muester I'm going to make a stink about it until they do and I don't care how many passengers get pissed at me about it.

 

Was that when the Conquest relocated here from Galveston and it arrived late? This last August, 2011?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lyncruiser]

The muster drill must be held within 24 hours of departure. I have been on many cruises and attended countless muster drills. Like the OP, I cannot see how anything done or said at a muster drill could have helped in this situation. It was nothing but panic, confusion, pitch black darkness. Moreover, it appears many of the ship staff boarded lifeboats first. I am now convinced muster drills are useless and likely will no longer bother to attend them. What I will know is where my life jacket is and how to get to it, day and night. Read this.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086826/Costa-Concordia-survivors-nightmare-scenes-people-fought-escape-sinking-cruise-ship.html

[SakeDad]

First, many of you seem to keep missing the posts and reports saying that MOST of the passengers onboard DID have a muster drill the week before. They were due to get off the ship the next day and a large number of new passengers were to get on and THIS is when the drill was to take place. So teh fact that the evacuation was a mess had very little to do with the lack of a dril that day.

 

Secondly, as a former crew member of two cruise lines (HAL and Disney) I can tell you that MANY of the crew are not trained in lowering liferafts, directing passengers, etc...They are told to follow emergency instructions once they are made and to help the passengers once announcements have been made. The problem here, from all accounts I have seen, is the instructions given to them were either wrong all together ("no emergency"..."just an electrical issue") or not given in a timely manner so as to facilitate a CALM evacuation.

 

So everyone getting all worked up about no drill that day need to move on and pick a new battle. Like getting more crew PROPERLY trained in handling real emergencies. That would have done 1000 times more than a passenger drill that day. Also having a Captain who gave clear instructions to his crew and EARLY enough for them to handle it. From what I have read the Captain "hoped" to get the ship to port before an evacuation was needed. Obviously very poor judgement on his part.

[tntornadox]

But certain crew members are trained to man and lower the lifeboats, no? Where did they go? A passenger shouldn't have to take over command of a lifeboat because the crewmember doesn't know how to drive it.

[SakeDad]

But certain crew members are trained to man and lower the lifeboats, no? Where did they go? A passenger shouldn't have to take over command of a lifeboat because the crewmember doesn't know how to drive it.

 

First, the Captain told the crew there was no emergency and to NOT evacuate so they went about their jobs. They are not allowed to lower lifeboats until the Abandon Ship is sounded.

Second, maybe some of those crew were actually below decks dealing with all the water coming in from the 165 foot gaping hole in the side!:eek: Most of the crew trained to lower and drive the lifeboats are deck crew and engineers who would have been the very people dealing with the hole and flooding. And maybe some of them are the poor souls lost as they were below deck already when the hole was ripped out and flooded the lower crew decks.

[Lyncruiser]

1/2 the lifeboats were useless almost as soon as the ship began listing because the lowered lifeboats would hit the side of the ship. The other 1/2 became useless when water overwhelmed them. The order to abandon ship needed to come sooner, as Sakedad indicates.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087133/Costa-Concordia-accident-So-DID-cause-cruise-ship-hit-rocks.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[manydogs]

Let's hope this tragic event will be a wake-up call to both the cruise industry AND passengers. The cruise industry needs to take a long, hard look at the people they put in charge of these ships and prepare the entire crew for "unforeseen" incidents (e.g., useless life boats, etc.). Passengers need to be pro-active with regard to their own safety and not assume that the crew will take care of everything. Attend the muster drills, know where life jackets/life boats are located, check emergency exits and, just like at home, have a "meet up" plan ... especially if you're traveling with children.

[peterv]

1/2 the lifeboats were useless almost as soon as the ship began listing because the lowered lifeboats would hit the side of the ship. The other 1/2 became useless when water overwhelmed them. The order to abandon ship needed to come sooner, as Sakedad indicates.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087133/Costa-Concordia-accident-So-DID-cause-cruise-ship-hit-rocks.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

 

Why do people keep saying this?

 

All but 3 lifeboats were deployed and launched. All boats from the starboard side were launched and only 3 remained on the port sided deployed but not launched.

 

Even with the loss of those 3 lifeboats all but 50 people (other than those who were trapped inside) were evacuated on the lifeboats.

 

I do agree that they should have started the evacuation sooner though.

[tntornadox]

Most of the crew trained to lower and drive the lifeboats are deck crew and engineers who would have been the very people dealing with the hole and flooding. And maybe some of them are the poor souls lost as they were below deck already when the hole was ripped out and flooded the lower crew decks.

 

I didn't know this. Perhaps it would be more prudent to train other crew to man and lower the lifeboats as well, such as Hotel staff? In a real emergency, as you say, most deck crew and engineers would be busy doing other things.

[frito58]

I have said for years if there was a real emergency this would happen. There was no way these 20 something kids would calmly just stand and point you to the right areas , yes we should know what to do, but we need them to lower the boats and have the training to run the whole show. Now it seems the officers wernt even trained right . This is just the tip of the "iceberg" if you will excuse the pun. We all know the odds of something like this happening again are very slim. But Lets face facts the cruiselines have got lazy on they train us and how they train their employees its more about making money and one loss of life was too many let alone how many is going to come of this.

[sylmack]

I didn't know this. Perhaps it would be more prudent to train other crew to man and lower the lifeboats as well, such as Hotel staff? In a real emergency, as you say, most deck crew and engineers would be busy doing other things.

 

Obviously, there were enough competent crew members to get all but 3 of the life boats lowered in very difficult circumstances.

[tntornadox]

Indeed, all I am saying is it should be planned going forward in a real emergency with water rushing into the vessel, engineers and such may not be available and other crew should be trained as well in the lowering and manning of lifeboats.

[megr1125]

First, many of you seem to keep missing the posts and reports saying that MOST of the passengers onboard DID have a muster drill the week before. They were due to get off the ship the next day and a large number of new passengers were to get on and THIS is when the drill was to take place. So teh fact that the evacuation was a mess had very little to do with the lack of a dril that day.

 

Secondly, as a former crew member of two cruise lines (HAL and Disney) I can tell you that MANY of the crew are not trained in lowering liferafts, directing passengers, etc...They are told to follow emergency instructions once they are made and to help the passengers once announcements have been made. The problem here, from all accounts I have seen, is the instructions given to them were either wrong all together ("no emergency"..."just an electrical issue") or not given in a timely manner so as to facilitate a CALM evacuation.

 

So everyone getting all worked up about no drill that day need to move on and pick a new battle. Like getting more crew PROPERLY trained in handling real emergencies. That would have done 1000 times more than a passenger drill that day. Also having a Captain who gave clear instructions to his crew and EARLY enough for them to handle it. From what I have read the Captain "hoped" to get the ship to port before an evacuation was needed. Obviously very poor judgement on his part.

 

interesting that not all crew know how to lower the life boats..i guess i thought that they ALL would know that.....thanks for sharing that info....

 

that said, i still feel safe when i cruise....and i will make it a point to plan out an escape route in my mind as well...just so it gets ingrained in my head..even though i tend to stick to the same ship....

 

thanks for your insight

[rog747]

Prof ed galea of the university of Greenwich in London tonight stated he is just completing a 4 year study to present to the IMO on ship evacuations and safety drills for crew and passengers and commented that he thought Concordia's evacuation process started way too late and that pax should have had drills if boarding just at last port and will seek that becomes a recommendation.

 

i note excellent comment re more crew should be trained in sakedad's post will help more than pax drills...

 

the passengers should have been mustered immediately it was known the ship was badly holed and not to have waited so long and pax being given 'everything is returning to normal soon' announcements...

the boats should have been lowered and made ready much sooner.

 

this delay in mustering passengers when the ship was still stable definitely caused the injuries and loss of life.

this also adds to the fact that all pax should have drills immediately leaving a port. drills need to be really re-thought as this is vital and important and will be shown in the inquiry on concordia.

drill awareness will save your life.

 

it will also be shown that if passengers have no time to return to their cabins or the ship's angle prevents that then enough life jackets for all must be at the muster stations.

it has been reported that life jackets for adults were insufficient supply at the stations.

 

as i mentioned in my OP about cruise ship safety wake up call and you care to read it please then you will see that professor galea tonight echoes my concerns i wrote today...