Carnival Corp says it is going to take a $90million hit

[Gordie Howe]

[quote name='haikou']I took my first and last cruise with my daughter to Alaska this summer due tobudget constarints and after that experience and Carnival's nickel and diming/cost cuttng/cheap practices it is no tonder they got rid of more experiencd/senior crew in favor of less expensive, less experienced crew on the Concordia,which did not help dealing with the accident.For so many of the crew not to speak Italian when it looks like th emajority of passengers were Italian, is not good.The passengers had trouble communicating with the crew and in an emergency communication is critical! Carnival is cheap and cuts cost wherever they can and it showed on my cruise.I will stick with smaller, luxury lines, for whom safety is more imprtant than profit![/QUOTE]

Overheard from the bridge moments before Captain Francesco Schettino departed the ship asking a senior member of his staff, "are you sure we are short life preservers AND life boats?" The senior staff member replies "yes, sir." Captain replies "excellent, we've made savings across the board."

[Mikel1733]

[quote name='repo-cruiser']You are exactly right. People on these boards thinking that a good muster drill will solve this are absolutely clueless. The majority of the crew trained for this actually did not perform their duties and worried about themselves. Then you have a clueless someone on here talking business and comparing a football game to a college education. I've heard it all.[/quote]

If you are correct then we as cruisers do have something very legitimate to fear about cruising. If we can't have faith in the crew and in the knowledge they are drilled continually as to how to perform in a crisis, then how can we in good conscience take our families and loved ones on these ships?

If you have a Captain who abandons ship, that Captain obviously has set a very bad example for his crew and probably has managed in that fashion from day one.

[Cruzaholic41]

[quote name='repo-cruiser']You are exactly right. People on these boards thinking that a good muster drill will solve this are absolutely clueless. The majority of the crew trained for this actually did not perform their duties and worried about themselves.[/quote]

I believe in fixing a problem at the source. This problem was not due to a faulty or no muster drill. This problem was seemingly due to a careless Captain with an extreme lapse in good judgment. And this is a problem plagueing Carnival Corp. Every single major cruise line has had collisions, but all the collisions I can recall in recent years have been the fault of Carnival Corp captains. The Splendor ran in to RCI's Radiance of the Seas and damaged the Radiance bow. Shortly later on another date, the Splendor collided with the pier and punctured a hole in the stern. Legend collided with and damaged RCI's Enchantment of the Seas. Fantasy ran into Imagination in Key West. Even Concordia collided with the pier a few years ago. This is ALARMING!!

I've worked for major corporations that believed in safety stand downs and attacking problems at the root. I know Carnival Corp cannot stand down, but that does not mean they can't look at the root of the problem. They really need to start reconsidering their Captain selection process and/or evaluation and monitoring process.

[jagsfan]

see my next post

[jagsfan]

First, my local paper's article on the Concordia mentioned 2 elderly men's bodies, in their
life jackets found at the muster station near the dining room. Somehow that makes it
sadder, that they did what they thought was best to save themselves.
Second....I'd like to say I'm embarassed at the mean spirited sniping on this thread that
is all about a terrible tragedy. I don't doubt there was malfeasance involved in the collision,
whether sloppy navigation or out of date charts, I don't know. I do wish that we could
keep things civilized discussing it.
Third, does anyone besides me remember the sinking of the Oceania? Some of the entertainers worked hard and got every single person off that ship before it went under.
The captain was the first off.....his excuse when questioned was that he needed to be
on shore to direct rescue efforts........which, by the way, he did not do.
Epirotiki did not fire him, which made me decide to never sail them again.

Cruise lines, like every other business, do cut corners where they think they can. The
bottom line is all important to them. I would like to think the captain of my ship and my
doctors are from the top of their class, not the bottom.
My heart goes out to the families of those lost, and to the survivors who suffered the
unbelievable trauma they did, and wound up stranded in what they were wearing....no passports, no luggage, no money.

[cdamion]

[quote name='jagsfan']First, my local paper's article on the Concordia mentioned 2 elderly men's bodies, in their
life jackets found at the muster station near the dining room. Somehow that makes it
sadder, that they did what they thought was best to save themselves.
Second....I'd like to say I'm embarassed at the mean spirited sniping on this thread that
is all about a terrible tragedy. I don't doubt there was malfeasance involved in the collision,
whether sloppy navigation or out of date charts, I don't know. I do wish that we could
keep things civilized discussing it.
Third, does anyone besides me remember the sinking of the Oceania? Some of the entertainers worked hard and got every single person off that ship before it went under.
The captain was the first off.....his excuse when questioned was that he needed to be
on shore to direct rescue efforts........which, by the way, he did not do.
Epirotiki did not fire him, which made me decide to never sail them again.

Cruise lines, like every other business, do cut corners where they think they can. The
bottom line is all important to them. I would like to think the captain of my ship and my
doctors are from the top of their class, not the bottom.
My heart goes out to the families of those lost, and to the survivors who suffered the
unbelievable trauma they did, and wound up stranded in what they were wearing....no passports, no luggage, no money.[/QUOTE]

Not only did they not fire the captain of the Oceanos, they gave him another ship to command. For those that don't recall, after they knew the ship was in trouble, the captain and senior officers went and packed their bags and loaded a lifeboat before telling anybody there was a problem. Then they were the first off the ship "to coordinate the rescue effort".

Two members of the ship's band are the ones who organized the evacuation of the ship, including the guitar player being the one to radio in the mayday since the captain never did.

I feel terrible for all involved with the Concordia tragedy and the families of those that didn't make it. While there are so many reports of chaos, well over 99% made it off safely thankfully.

[gjsmth]

I heard on CNN today that any lawsuits will have to be filed in Italy since that is were the ship is registered, and that the max. lawsuit payout in Italian court is 75K each. Anyone confirm this?

[mn311601]

75K max for death? That's not nearly enough.

[cdamion]

[quote name='gjsmth']I heard on CNN today that any lawsuits will have to be filed in Italy since that is were the ship is registered, and that the max. lawsuit payout in Italian court is 75K each. Anyone confirm this?[/QUOTE]

The cruise contract has these limitations on them (incidentally if you are on Costa and have a US port call, jurisdiction is in Florida). I am by no means an expert in maritime or Italian law, but in general clauses like this are regularly contested with varying degrees of success.

It is much more likely to be upheld if something happens and somebody slips and falls on a slippery walkway. Not necessarily in this case where the captain intentionally sailed the ship off course.

There are many different ways the clauses can (and will) be attacked and the attorneys will fight it out. My personal feeling is that suits will be filed and these claims will be settled before they ever see a trial.

It will be hard for the passengers that had no injuries and evacuated safely to get more than the $75k, but in the case of any serious injuries and the deaths, they will probably get substantially more.

Adding to this, since Italian courts are aggressive with criminal charges against corporate officers, chances are they will award restitution to the victims of the crime (the passengers) giving them another source for payment.

[Cruzaholic41]

[quote name='gjsmth']I heard on CNN today that any lawsuits will have to be filed in Italy since that is were the ship is registered, and that the max. lawsuit payout in Italian court is 75K each. Anyone confirm this?[/quote]

That is correct. It's according to the Athens Convention.

[WinnipegCruiser]

US Stock was not traded today due to MLK holiday. The London stock took a 17% hit. That would translate to almost a $6 hit from the current $34 price of the NYSE stock.

Will they be able to move the passengers booked on future dates to other ships? If most of them still cruise with a Carnival ship, then the cost of "lost revenues" from the lost ship is less. Although the ship will have no income, that is balanced by much lower expenses (costs to operate the ship).

I am still holding the stock, unless it goes lower than $19.

[cdamion]

[quote name='Cruzaholic41']That is correct. It's according to the Athens Convention.[/QUOTE]

There are ways to get out from under the Athens Convention - and the cruise contract. Arguably this is one of them.

[cool gould]

doesn't the harbor pilot dock the ship?[quote name='Cruzaholic41']I believe in fixing a problem at the source. This problem was not due to a faulty or no muster drill. This problem was seemingly due to a careless Captain with an extreme lapse in good judgment. And this is a problem plagueing Carnival Corp. Every single major cruise line has had collisions, but all the collisions I can recall in recent years have been the fault of Carnival Corp captains. The Splendor ran in to RCI's Radiance of the Seas and damaged the Radiance bow. Shortly later on another date, the Splendor collided with the pier and punctured a hole in the stern. Legend collided with and damaged RCI's Enchantment of the Seas. Fantasy ran into Imagination in Key West. Even Concordia collided with the pier a few years ago. This is ALARMING!!

I've worked for major corporations that believed in safety stand downs and attacking problems at the root. I know Carnival Corp cannot stand down, but that does not mean they can't look at the root of the problem. They really need to start reconsidering their Captain selection process and/or evaluation and monitoring process.[/quote]

[tntornadox]

The ship wasn't supposed to be where it was, it was hours out of Rome and was not supposed to dock there, so no pilot as aboard.

[LibraByTheSea]

[quote name='vacruizer']From what I understand they only have ship coverage for the actual ship. They don't carry revenue loss insurance.[/quote]

There is a Business Interruption Insurance that may help

BUT

As a Real Estate broker and as many car insurance policies prove
When you have a large claim your policy skyrockets

That will be reflected in increased fares...sadly

Its Business :mad:

[cdamion]

[quote name='tntornadox']The ship wasn't supposed to be where it was, it was hours out of Rome and was not supposed to dock there, so no pilot as aboard.[/QUOTE]

A great question raised by a poster in another thread was 'would authorities require a local pilot if the ship was supposed to be traveling that close to land?'

[cdamion]

[quote name='LibraByTheSea']There is a Business Interruption Insurance that may help

BUT

As a Real Estate broker and as many car insurance policies prove
When you have a large claim your policy skyrockets

That will be reflected in increased fares...sadly

Its Business :mad:[/QUOTE]

Carnival is self-insured for business interruption - they said that earlier today.

[tntornadox]

[quote name='cdamion']A great question raised by a poster in another thread was 'would authorities require a local pilot if the ship was supposed to be traveling that close to land?'[/quote]

I doubt it. Pilots typically only come aboard to aid in docking a vessel, not saying never, but typically.

[Cruzaholic41]

[quote name='cool gould']doesn't the harbor pilot dock the ship?[/quote]

No. Pilots do not drive cruise ships. They provide advice. The Captain is still in control of the ship.

[elcuchio24]

[quote name='WinnipegCruiser']US Stock was not traded today due to MLK holiday. The London stock took a 17% hit. That would translate to almost a $6 hit from the current $34 price of the NYSE stock.

Will they be able to move the passengers booked on future dates to other ships? If most of them still cruise with a Carnival ship, then the cost of "lost revenues" from the lost ship is less. Although the ship will have no income, that is balanced by much lower expenses (costs to operate the ship).

I am still holding the stock, unless it goes lower than $19.[/quote]

If it goes to $19 I'll buy yours from you:)

[big_duck]

"They're panicking out there right now, I can feel it."

-- Billy Ray Valentine

[5waldos]

The reports out this morning are that Carnival may take a $800 million hit. That will not be good for the stocks for sure.

[elcuchio24]

[quote name='big_duck']"They're panicking out there right now, I can feel it."

-- Billy Ray Valentine[/quote]

Not as much as I'd like......

[Cruise-Crazy]

[quote name='PAPERBKWRITER']I was under the impression that muster drills had to, by international law, be performed before leaving the embarking port. I have only sailed from USA ports (20+cruises) on most lines and we have always done the drill before leaving. Guess I was wrong but that would make sense. We now see that the within 24 hour rule is not good and needs to be changed.[/QUOTE]

From what I understand on this cruise they pick up new passengers at each port so they would have to do a drill at every stop. It would be interesting to know just how they normally handel this.

[elcuchio24]

[quote name='5waldos']The reports out this morning are that Carnival may take a $800 million hit. That will not be good for the stocks for sure.[/quote]

Just guessing, but that sounds like an inflated BS media #. Still, it'll be bookings going forward that put the screws to CCL. Don't underestimate the general public's irrational fears.