The Reason Costa Threw the Brave Captain Under the Bus

[cdamion]

Check out #8 of the attached Costa passenger contract.

 

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/USA/Support/contract/contract.htm

[waldocruiser1]

Check out #8 of the attached Costa passenger contract.

 

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/USA/Support/contract/contract.htm

 

But the captain is an employee, and was on duty, and working within the scope of his duties (driving the ship)

 

He just made a bad choice.

[shof515]

Either way, Costa still has to make amends with this tragic incident

[cdamion]

They are just doing what they can do to minimize their risks. It was curious why they distanced themselves so quickly. Once criminal charges are brought against him, they are going to say he was acting outside the scope of his duty.

 

Will it work? Who knows, but it is obvious they are trying to distance themselves.

[BubMunkeyBles]

But the captain is an employee, and was on duty, and working within the scope of his duties (driving the ship)

 

He just made a bad choice.

 

Yep. That.

[big_duck]

But the captain is an employee, and was on duty, and working within the scope of his duties (driving the ship)

 

He just made a bad choice.

 

The argument could be made that joy riding is beyond the scope of his duties.

[Cruzface]

Check out #8 of the attached Costa passenger contract.

 

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/USA/Support/contract/contract.htm

 

Interesting. In the US, a court might say that the Captain was on a frolic (or personal venture) when he hit the rocks.

 

I have a feeling that any court is going to bend over backwards to find Costa responsible.

[Teechur]

Check out #8 of the attached Costa passenger contract.

 

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/USA/Support/contract/contract.htm

Um, have you read the accounts of this mess so far? Undoubtedly there are some serious "grey areas" here, but you are the first one I've seen call him the "brave captain" (The Reason Costa threw the Brave Captain Under the Bus). Did I miss something? Was this sarcasm, and it was so subtle, that it went over my head?:eek:

I always assume the best about people until proven wrong, but it looks like he was a total weasel, from start to finish.

Again, did I miss something???:confused:

[boaterette]

Do you really have nothing better to do? I wish the mods would delete all these threads or move them to Costa. This is carnival. A carnival ship did not tip over.

[kruzerci]

Either way, Costa still has to make amends with this tragic incident

 

Agreed

[big_duck]

Um, have you read the accounts of this mess so far? Undoubtedly there are some serious "grey areas" here, but you are the first one I've seen call him the "brave captain" (The Reason Costa threw the Brave Captain Under the Bus). Did I miss something? Was this sarcasm, and it was so subtle, that it went over my head?:eek:

I always assume the best about people until proven wrong, but it looks like he was a total weasel, from start to finish.

Again, did I miss something???:confused:

 

Maybe the OP is just a Lewis Caroll fan and he was just waxing poetic.

[rybreadsmomshubby]

Um, have you read the accounts of this mess so far? Undoubtedly there are some serious "grey areas" here, but you are the first one I've seen call him the "brave captain" (The Reason Costa threw the Brave Captain Under the Bus). Did I miss something? Was this sarcasm, and it was so subtle, that it went over my head?:eek:

I always assume the best about people until proven wrong, but it looks like he was a total weasel, from start to finish.

Again, did I miss something???:confused:

The captain was brave.

 

Most Italians in the face of such adversity would have been out of there much sooner.

 

 

 

 

And no, people, I'm not serious. :rolleyes:

[Teechur]

Do you really have nothing better to do? I wish the mods would delete all these threads or move them to Costa. This is carnival. A carnival ship did not tip over.

Right back atcha!:rolleyes: What made you click on this thread?:confused: All the drama queens moan, "where are the mods, where are the mods"?

This is about CRUISING! Many of us ARE interested in the opinions our fellow cruisers have about this event.:cool:

Meanwhile, read a book...and have a nice day:)!

[Teechur]

The captain was brave.

 

Most Italians in the face of such adversity would have been out of there much sooner.

 

 

 

 

And no, people, I'm not serious. :rolleyes:

Okay, ya got me!:D I was about to be offended as a second-generation, non-Italian:p (before I read the last line). LOL

[Sargent_Schultz]

do you really have nothing better to do? I wish the mods would delete all these threads or move them to costa. This is carnival. A carnival ship did not tip over.

 

+1

 

agreed

 

+1

[Cruise Cat]

Part of it was the course pre-programmed into the computer when they left port which someone had to consciously alter/order to be altered. As with many companies, people at a certain level are allowed to make certain decisions "at their discretion". However, this means they are also responsible for these decisions. When the ship was in part, the cruise line could order the captain on almost any thing. Leaving the port and in the harbor, the pilot was in charge of the vessel. In open water, the captain is in charge. He may get advice from corporate, but it is under his command. When he ordered the abandond ship and sent the SOS, the Italian Coast Guard was then in command.

[cdamion]

Um, have you read the accounts of this mess so far? Undoubtedly there are some serious "grey areas" here, but you are the first one I've seen call him the "brave captain" (The Reason Costa threw the Brave Captain Under the Bus). Did I miss something? Was this sarcasm, and it was so subtle, that it went over my head?:eek:

I always assume the best about people until proven wrong, but it looks like he was a total weasel, from start to finish.

Again, did I miss something???:confused:

 

Let me clarify: by "brave" I meant completely incompetent idiot who froze like a deer in the headlights as soon as something cracked his ego.

 

Yes I was being sarcastic about him, but I also think the company is very transparently trying to distance itself from him when they need to be held responsible too. He was their employee - they put him in charge of the lives of 4200+ people. Like it or not, they are ultimately responsible.

 

I don't know that all of the people that made it safely off of the ship deserve a ton of money for 'emotional distress', etc., but the family of the Minnesota family who probably lost their parents do. The mother of the little Italian girl she will probably never see again does - as do the rest of the families that lost children, parents, sisters, brothers.

 

Yes, the captain failed in every sense of the word. They company is going to try to hide behind their passenger contract now by distancing themselves from him, which carries about as much weight with me as him claiming he tripped into the lifeboat.

[cdamion]

Do you really have nothing better to do? I wish the mods would delete all these threads or move them to Costa. This is carnival. A carnival ship did not tip over.

 

Agreed

 

Simple solution: don't read the thread. It was clear from the title what it was about. If you don't like it, don't read it. SIMPLE. Do you really have nothing better to do than to scout out threats simply to disagree? Why did you even click on the thread?

 

It is a Carnival Corporation owned cruise line and whatever happens to Costa will impact the entire company. I thought it would be an interesting read for people who are interested in what is one of the most unique situations to happen to the cruise industry.

 

Why am I wasting my time responding to this?

[cdamion]

Maybe the OP is just a Lewis Caroll fan and he was just waxing poetic.

 

Not waxing poetic, just sarcasm.

[Cruise Cat]

Let me clarify: by "brave" I meant completely incompetent idiot who froze like a deer in the headlights as soon as something cracked his ego.

 

Yes I was being sarcastic about him, but I also think the company is very transparently trying to distance itself from him when they need to be held responsible too. He was their employee - they put him in charge of the lives of 4200+ people. Like it or not, they are ultimately responsible.

 

I don't know that all of the people that made it safely off of the ship deserve a ton of money for 'emotional distress', etc., but the family of the Minnesota family who probably lost their parents do. The mother of the little Italian girl she will probably never see again does - as do the rest of the families that lost children, parents, sisters, brothers.

 

Yes, the captain failed in every sense of the word. They company is going to try to hide behind their passenger contract now by distancing themselves from him, which carries about as much weight with me as him claiming he tripped into the lifeboat.

 

What are your thoughts on the massive expansion of the cruiselines over the last several years and the content of the senior crew? What I mean is, back in the 70s, you had relatively few cruise ships so the captains were probably older vets of their home country's navy and sea hardened by years of experience with thier main focus being the ship and the sea. They probably got paid very well. Fast forward to the massive passenger fleets of today and the captains and many senior staff may have never served in their navys, but are now younger, less experienced, and probably trained by the cruiseline (or training classes) as they worked their way up the ranks with part of the captain selection being how well they can manage the overall floating resort and interact with the passengers and senior crew (hotel director, cruise director, food director, etc.) vice managing the hazards of sailing a ship.

 

I also think similar to a problem airlines are facing with modern technology where the computer flies the plane most of the time and new systems are being put in place that actually land the plane, thus decreasing the pilot's proficiencies, including handling emergencies. In this case, possibly even affecting the captains ability to read the sea charts and recognize hazards as the computer usually does it for him

[cdamion]

What are your thoughts on the massive expansion of the cruiselines over the last several years and the content of the senior crew? What I mean is, back in the 70s, you had relatively few cruise ships so the captains were probably older vets of their home country's navy and sea hardened by years of experience with thier main focus being the ship and the sea. They probably got paid very well. Fast forward to the massive passenger fleets of today and the captains and many senior staff may have never served in their navys, but are now younger, less experienced, and probably trained by the cruiseline (or training classes) as they worked their way up the ranks with part of the captain selection being how well they can manage the overall floating resort and interact with the passengers and senior crew (hotel director, cruise director, food director, etc.) vice managing the hazards of sailing a ship.

 

I also think similar to a problem airlines are facing with modern technology where the computer flies the plane most of the time and new systems are being put in place that actually land the plane, thus decreasing the pilot's proficiencies, including handling emergencies. In this case, possibly even affecting the captains ability to read the sea charts and recognize hazards as the computer usually does it for him

 

I do believe that there are so many things that are expected of a captain now. Not only is he expected to be in charge of everything on the ship, he does have to be something of a politician for huge crews, he also has to be something of a social host for the passengers and be out mingling. What weight are they giving to all of the requirements when they decide who to promote?

 

I have thought about modern technology and captains as well as pilots. How many pilots would have been able to land a plane on the Hudson like Sullenberger? If they were younger and just trained in the technology would it have turned out the same? Are today's cruise ship officers ready to take over at a moment's notice if they lose GPS signals and other navigation electronics? I really don't know the answers, but the questions are worth thinking about.

[Cruise Cat]

I do believe that there are so many things that are expected of a captain now. Not only is he expected to be in charge of everything on the ship, he does have to be something of a politician for huge crews, he also has to be something of a social host for the passengers and be out mingling. What weight are they giving to all of the requirements when they decide who to promote?

 

I have thought about modern technology and captains as well as pilots. How many pilots would have been able to land a plane on the Hudson like Sullenberger? If they were younger and just trained in the technology would it have turned out the same? Are today's cruise ship officers ready to take over at a moment's notice if they lose GPS signals and other navigation electronics? I really don't know the answers, but the questions are worth thinking about.

 

They are worth thinking about. I also realize all don't wish to think about these things as they just want to book the cruise and assume everything will go perfect. I understand that and they usually do. I am not a worry wart or OCD, but inquisitive and like to plan enough to be reasonably prepared. Seeing the events with the whole Sea Diamond sinking in 2007 and knowing I was going to be on a cruise the following year in the same harbor she hit the reef in really sobered me up to being prepared, even though I would be on a different cruise line. Same with the Star Fire. It could happen on any ship.

[Gazelle2]

Let me clarify: by "brave" I meant completely incompetent idiot who froze like a deer in the headlights as soon as something cracked his ego.

 

Yes I was being sarcastic about him, but I also think the company is very transparently trying to distance itself from him when they need to be held responsible too. He was their employee - they put him in charge of the lives of 4200+ people. Like it or not, they are ultimately responsible.

 

I don't know that all of the people that made it safely off of the ship deserve a ton of money for 'emotional distress', etc., but the family of the Minnesota family who probably lost their parents do. The mother of the little Italian girl she will probably never see again does - as do the rest of the families that lost children, parents, sisters, brothers.

 

Yes, the captain failed in every sense of the word. They company is going to try to hide behind their passenger contract now by distancing themselves from him, which carries about as much weight with me as him claiming he tripped into the lifeboat.

 

The only way Costa can mitigate its total responsibility for this act of criminal negligence is to convince the legal system that the actions of Captain Schettino were completely unforseeable. They are never going to prevail in this argument. In this day and age I am never going to belive that Costa, and probably Carnival too, know the exact GPS position of all of its ships on every minute of every cruise. From all that I have read and heard this deviation to the east of the island of Giglio was not a one-time event but rather a frequent occurrence. It is probably going to come out that Costa captains did this maneuer frequently and that Costa knew full well that they were doing it. Costa is cooked.

[cdamion]

They are worth thinking about. I also realize all don't wish to think about these things as they just want to book the cruise and assume everything will go perfect. I understand that and they usually do. I am not a worry wart or OCD, but inquisitive and like to plan enough to be reasonably prepared. Seeing the events with the whole Sea Diamond sinking in 2007 and knowing I was going to be on a cruise the following year in the same harbor she hit the reef in really sobered me up to being prepared, even though I would be on a different cruise line. Same with the Star Fire. It could happen on any ship.

 

To me the Star fire was far more disconcerting to me because that was something caused by a careless passenger - and there are plenty of those. Obviously, materials used in the building of the ship played a substantial role too. I've heard too many people ask about bringing things like candles and irons on board.

 

I still feel much safer on a ship than any other form of transportation. But that is not an excuse to be prepared just in case the .009% chance (made up figure) actually happens.

[Cruise Cat]

To me the Star fire was far more disconcerting to me because that was something caused by a careless passenger - and there are plenty of those. Obviously, materials used in the building of the ship played a substantial role too. I've heard too many people ask about bringing things like candles and irons on board.

 

I still feel much safer on a ship than any other form of transportation. But that is not an excuse to be prepared just in case the .009% chance (made up figure) actually happens.

 

It is very safe. I also know I can swim or float longer than I can fly! On the Star Fire, I learned a lot that shocked me like how there was no fire protection on the balconies, the difficulty of fighting balcony fires with all those dividers, and the little details about SOLAS compliance/committment which dispelled my previous assumptions.