More bad news for Cruise Lines

[ToadOfToadHall]

I'm not passing any comment, just the link:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-16671908

[Alba50]

I just read this a few hours ago ver very scary and upsetting

[zider]

They are Allegations only & until someone is charged with committing a offence that is how i will treat it. A Sunday newspaper also carried the story But had it on page 7 now if the paper thought that they had a story that they could run with it would have been Headlines on the 1st page.

[hwfiv]

Parents today HAVE to know that this kind of thing can happen ANYWHERE - even at home! It happens in schools, it happens in churches. A cruise ship is no different! I really hope Cunard doesn't take a huge hit for this - unless they knew about it and LET it go on, which I simply can not believe would EVER take place on a Cunard ship, having met and spent time with several officers of the QM2 - all very upstanding and moral people from what I've seen. Perverts do not come with marks on their foreheads to distinguish them, unfortunately (although I frankly think they deserve to branded in such a way once convicted!), so it's hardly fair to vilify a company for hiring one - UNLESS THEY HAD A RECORD THAT WAS IGNORED.

 

But as a parent or guardian - or even a babysitter or Uncle/Aunt - you simply HAVE to be aware that these sick degenerates could be anywhere - and that they look like very normal people. So you simply have to limit access to strangers being alone with the kids in your care. But even MORE than that - kids HAVE to be taught "good touch/bad touch" and taught to TELL SOMEONE IMMEDIATELY. That's the only way to catch these people and get them OFF the ship. One WORD to a Cunard officer about foul play, and I can guarantee that the offender would be on his/her way to brig IMMEDIATELY. I've had enough conversations with officers on Cunard to know that they don't take it lightly when employees don't perform their jobs correctly, much less this kind of thing.

 

But as much as I hate these perverts and think they should be nowhere NEAR children, the fact remains that Cunard has to employ thousands of people, and unless someone has a record, there's no way they could ever figure out in a corporate interview if the person is a predator or not. So it comes down to the parents and guardians. Teach the kids how to handle it, and to say something immediately - and if the kid is too young to be taught a lesson like this, then they are too young to be left alone where a predator could get at them. We shouldn't HAVE to do this, but unfortunately, this garbage exists in the world, and we can't live like Ostrich's with our head in the sands about it. I personally know people who weren't taught this, and were sadly abused by a predator. And I know people who WERE taught this, and it saved them from being abused (in one case, I know someone who taught their 8 year old son about "good touch/bad touch" so well, that when an adult attempted "bad touch", he screamed bloody murder so loud that the predator ran off. The kid then told the nearest adult and the predator was apprehended. That's good parenting!).

 

Sadly, after Concordia, the media is now on a witch hunt and this just adds fuel to their fire...

[moniquet]

Why is it a witch hunt, it is news:confused: Has been on Meridian TV this evening. What do you want censorship:rolleyes:

[hwfiv]

Why is it a witch hunt, it is news:confused: Has been on Meridian TV this evening. What do you want censorship:rolleyes:

 

No, I want it fair and balanced. A lot of people I know, after seeing the 20/20 piece now are under the impression that ALL cruises are full of fighting and violence, crews that don't care about anything but getting drunk, unsafe and unsanitary conditions, people disappearing overboard under mysterious circumstances, and that anything under the "Carnival" umbrella is completely irresponsibly run.

 

I'm in New York City. I'm hearing people talking about it all weekend. Not just friends and acquaintances, but at restaurants and on the street.

 

Not looking for censorship, just responsibility. I feel that responsibility is not in the interest of a show like 20/20 or other news agencies that need to get viewers to choose their program over the 900 or so other programs that they could watch at that hour. Sensationalism sells. They know it. We know it. (Or we should).

 

I'm just speaking for myself, but I'm frankly tired of the Costa Tragedy being the "indicator" that everything is wrong in the cruise industry. And I'm sorry, but I'm sad that Costa was under the Carnival umbrella, and that by extension, Cunard will also take a hit. I'm all for calling the cruise lines to task when they're wrong. But at least from what I'm hearing around town and from friends and even some family, people are now considering cruise ships to be potential death traps and dens of drunken iniquity. And that's just silly.

[Pushka]

As long as the Cunard line has done due diligence with regard to checking the Police History of its employees, and checking on any complaints that may have been made, then while this is very distressing for all, then as previously indicated, this situation occurs everywhere. In SA, one of our (former) magistrates is in jail for these kinds of offences.

[junglejane]

The news articles I have seen have been very short on details so it's hard to tell exactly what happened here. As a parent, I find it very distressing. Sadly it can happen anywhere. When my youngest was in kindergarten, the police came to her school one day and arrested a 2nd grade teacher for child molestation. He is now in prison, where he belongs. What I hope comes of this is that Cunard and all cruise lines review not only their hiring practices but also their procedures for their youth staff. They should staff the youth center so that no staff member is alone with a child.

 

I also wonder if there isn't a bigger problem caused by the explosive growth in the cruise industry. With so many mega-ships coming on line, maybe the industry has not kept up with the need to hire, train, screen and monitor so many staff members. IMHO the Costa tragedy shows that this is a problem from top to bottom.

[kirsty_r]

Very unfortunate indeed for the carnival corporation... not good timing at all - but yes. It happens, can happen anywhere, and a police check is only valid in the day and time it is done on. But then again, I agree the media has to report these incidents, they cannot be left without been reported as I think it is only fair parents know about them.

[Salacia]

PARTIAL QUOTE

No, I want it fair and balanced...

 

I'm in New York City. I'm hearing people talking about it all weekend. Not just friends and acquaintances, but at restaurants and on the street.

 

.

 

Snow storm and frezzing temps this weekend kind of put the damper on street discussions -for me at least. Just from my experience, most of the New Yorkers I know were talking about the Republican debates, the upcoming election and the global economic situation (three top categories of discussion). Different strokes for different folks :)

 

BTW, Fair and Balanced - isn't the the Fox News motto?

[hwfiv]

PARTIAL QUOTE

 

BTW, Fair and Balanced - isn't the the Fox News motto?

 

I wouldn't know. I don't get my news from American cable news stations. Too many opinions and too much bias.

[BlueRiband]

If this person is guilty they should get slammed with full legal penalities. But according to the Daily Mail version this so far is based on one accusation that is still being investigated. I wonder how many people will read this and hesitate to work with young teens? :confused: All it takes is one accusation and your life is changed overnight. And if accusations are unfounded, how many readers will believe that he must have done something or the complaint would never be made?

[kirsty_r]

If this person is guilty they should get slammed with full legal penalities. But according to the Daily Mail version this so far is based on one accusation that is still being investigated. I wonder how many people will read this and hesitate to work with young teens? :confused: All it takes is one accusation and your life is changed overnight. And if accusations are unfounded, how many readers will believe that he must have done something or the complaint would never be made?

Hopefully he wasn't working alone when it happened - i know when i work with teens, i make sure i'm generally not alone with them.

[BlueRiband]

Hopefully he wasn't working alone when it happened - i know when i work with teens, i make sure i'm generally not alone with them.

 

That's pretty much the "safe environment" standard now followed by a lot of organizations that work with young people - at least two adults are always present.

[mainelycruising]

Parents today HAVE to know that this kind of thing can happen ANYWHERE - even at home! It happens in schools, it happens in churches. A cruise ship is no different! I really hope Cunard doesn't take a huge hit for this - unless they knew about it and LET it go on, which I simply can not believe would EVER take place on a Cunard ship, having met and spent time with several officers of the QM2 - all very upstanding and moral people from what I've seen. Perverts do not come with marks on their foreheads to distinguish them, unfortunately (although I frankly think they deserve to branded in such a way once convicted!), so it's hardly fair to vilify a company for hiring one - UNLESS THEY HAD A RECORD THAT WAS IGNORED.

 

But as a parent or guardian - or even a babysitter or Uncle/Aunt - you simply HAVE to be aware that these sick degenerates could be anywhere - and that they look like very normal people. So you simply have to limit access to strangers being alone with the kids in your care. But even MORE than that - kids HAVE to be taught "good touch/bad touch" and taught to TELL SOMEONE IMMEDIATELY. That's the only way to catch these people and get them OFF the ship. One WORD to a Cunard officer about foul play, and I can guarantee that the offender would be on his/her way to brig IMMEDIATELY. I've had enough conversations with officers on Cunard to know that they don't take it lightly when employees don't perform their jobs correctly, much less this kind of thing.

 

But as much as I hate these perverts and think they should be nowhere NEAR children, the fact remains that Cunard has to employ thousands of people, and unless someone has a record, there's no way they could ever figure out in a corporate interview if the person is a predator or not. So it comes down to the parents and guardians. Teach the kids how to handle it, and to say something immediately - and if the kid is too young to be taught a lesson like this, then they are too young to be left alone where a predator could get at them. We shouldn't HAVE to do this, but unfortunately, this garbage exists in the world, and we can't live like Ostrich's with our head in the sands about it. I personally know people who weren't taught this, and were sadly abused by a predator. And I know people who WERE taught this, and it saved them from being abused (in one case, I know someone who taught their 8 year old son about "good touch/bad touch" so well, that when an adult attempted "bad touch", he screamed bloody murder so loud that the predator ran off. The kid then told the nearest adult and the predator was apprehended. That's good parenting!).

 

Sadly, after Concordia, the media is now on a witch hunt and this just adds fuel to their fire...

 

There is no reason why Cunard, P&O and other cruise lines leaving from UK ports cannot screen all UK personnel using the Criminal Records Bureau. Unlike usual background checks, these will turn up all convictions and, in the case of the vulnerable, will flag those deemed unsafe to work with children and others even without a conviction. It would be a start. I assume all senior UK personnel are CRB'd. Scout leaders and Sunday school workers have to be; why not British ship personnel?

[MrsNobby]

There is no reason why Cunard, P&O and other cruise lines leaving from UK ports cannot screen all UK personnel using the Criminal Records Bureau. Unlike usual background checks, these will turn up all convictions and, in the case of the vulnerable, will flag those deemed unsafe to work with children and others even without a conviction. It would be a start. I assume all senior UK personnel are CRB'd. Scout leaders and Sunday school workers have to be; why not British ship personnel?

 

 

A CRB just means a person has not been caught, its not worth the paper it is written on. Remember the Plymouth nursery scandal, a prime example of how useless a CRB is.

[mainelycruising]

If this person is guilty they should get slammed with full legal penalities. But according to the Daily Mail version this so far is based on one accusation that is still being investigated. I wonder how many people will read this and hesitate to work with young teens? :confused: All it takes is one accusation and your life is changed overnight. And if accusations are unfounded, how many readers will believe that he must have done something or the complaint would never be made?

 

It seems as though, in this case, the police have been investigating this for some time before it hit the press.

[mainelycruising]

A CRB just means a person has not been caught, its not worth the paper it is written on. Remember the Plymouth nursery scandal, a prime example of how useless a CRB is.

 

It is a first step, don't you think? Because there are a few failures, the whole thing should be thrown out?

[philayl]

Hopefully he wasn't working alone when it happened - i know when i work with teens, i make sure i'm generally not alone with them.

Doesn't that mean that another person was involved?

[missfrankiecat]

It is a first step, don't you think? Because there are a few failures, the whole thing should be thrown out?

 

But a CRB check only picks up British convictions (and, if an enhanced check, UK intelligence). Most crew have never set foot in the UK and I'd be very surprised if checks are done with other jurisdictions. Not saying it shouldn't be done where it can be effective but yet another of the effects of change of registry is to make intelligence control even more precarious. Let's not kid ourselves that casual crew recruitment can be seriously vetted.

[MrsNobby]

It is a first step, don't you think? Because there are a few failures, the whole thing should be thrown out?

 

I dont think it should be thrown out, but I dont think employers or the general public should put too much trust in it.

 

I say this as a mother of three who cruises P&O and Cunard on a regular basis with my three children, and my eldest son is a member of Scouts who goes away camping.

[figgy1978]

Also you can do a CRB check but if someone then commits a crime the day after you would never know.

[hwfiv]

There is no reason why Cunard, P&O and other cruise lines leaving from UK ports cannot screen all UK personnel using the Criminal Records Bureau. Unlike usual background checks, these will turn up all convictions and, in the case of the vulnerable, will flag those deemed unsafe to work with children and others even without a conviction. It would be a start. I assume all senior UK personnel are CRB'd. Scout leaders and Sunday school workers have to be; why not British ship personnel?

 

Of course, that's as it should be. And if something comes up on the background check, then you simply don't hire that person. Simple and easy. BUT, there's a number of predators out there that don't have convictions yet. And my whole point was that without a past record, it's virtually impossible to tell the predators from the normal people. There's no mark on the forehead to tell them apart. And I was simply hoping that Cunard isn't vilified for hiring a predator, if there had been no records to prove that. Any one of us could innocently hire a predator and not realize it.

 

So, the KEY, obviously, is that children should not be left alone with a stranger. And in the case of child care/day care/babysitting: there should always be multiple adults with the children. Beyond that, it's vital that the parents teach the children how to differentiate between good touch and bad touch and give them the strength to tell someone if it ever happens.

 

But don't misunderstand my original post: ALL due diligence SHOULD and MUST be done by any company hiring someone who may come into contact with children. And if they're not, then they should be called to the carpet about it. I just have a hard time believing that the Cunard I know wouldn't do such a background check on anyone it hires.

[DDBINK1]

There is no reason why Cunard, P&O and other cruise lines leaving from UK ports cannot screen all UK personnel using the Criminal Records Bureau. Unlike usual background checks, these will turn up all convictions and, in the case of the vulnerable, will flag those deemed unsafe to work with children and others even without a conviction. It would be a start. I assume all senior UK personnel are CRB'd. Scout leaders and Sunday school workers have to be; why not British ship personnel?

 

 

I wonder if reflagging the ships in Bermuda changes the way they do background checks?? And many staff on the cruise ships are from all over the world. Would a background check find out enough information. And would reflagging the ships make them still British Ships? Just food for thought. I really hope nothing awful happened to any child.

[Sahaj]

I wonder if reflagging the ships in Bermuda changes the way they do background checks?? And many staff on the cruise ships are from all over the world. Would a background check find out enough information. And would reflagging the ships make them still British Ships? Just food for thought. I really hope nothing awful happened to any child.

In the US, TSA and Homeland Security do background checks in-depth on all airline/ flight employees. How can we be reassured that cruises leaving or entering the US are checked for security purposes. As an example, I forgot I was carrying a pocket knife in my briefcase I carried onboard a recent Cruise. After going through security, they asked if I had anything metal in my case (as the x-ray had picked up a metal strip in an eyeglass case. Nothing was mentioned about the pocket knife which I spotted when putting things back in! Hmmm! An airline I believe would have spotted this.