Cunard to Leave Manhattan for Brooklyn

[guernseyguy]

Konfused Ken,

 

No dispute that the Manhattan Piers are woefully inadequate - I'm not much looking forward to queuing for 1 hour + to clear immigration in January, assuming MV RUSTBUCKET makes it across.....and while no one disputes that they need refurbishing, the question remains as to why Carnival shifted the terminus of the North Atlantic ferry (heritage and all that) to Brooklyn, while leaving other lines in Manhattan. For a NY round trip cruise I'm sure Brooklyn is no worse than Port Liberty NJ, but for a Trans Atlantic its really not the same. And the Princess dunderhead who said 'most are asleep on arrival into NY' has clearly never done a Trans Atlantic. Now if there was a reasonable operational reason for doing it - like not wanting the stern sticking out into the Hudson - then I'd have more sympathy, for a temporary move.

 

Not sure where the question on 'Grand Class' came from, but no, I'm not a fan. I think the interiors are bland beyond belief and the ship layout - with nothing to do forward - except trek aft, poor. While the QM2 is bigger I never felt anywhere was as far from anywhere else. The Atrium would embarrass Holiday Inn and the dining rooms feel cramped. I much prefer the design and finish of RCL's Radiance class - similar scale, but much more light and easier to navigate around. QM2 beats them both of course!

 

Peter

[Paul NH]

Peter,

 

Thanks for the encouraging link. I have to wonder why Cunard does not simply announce that the move is temporary. Maybe they did and we all missed it. If a client base is agitated over a decision they made, which is only temporary, I do not understand why they would not head that off at the pass and simply make it known that the QM2 will be back in Manahattan some day. Strange.

 

Paul

[Rotterdam]

Just a few thoughts....when was the last time you heard someone say I am going to Brooklyn to: go see a Broadway show, see the Christmas windows on 5th Avenue, pay respects at the World Trade Center site, take the ferry to the Statue of Liberty or Ellis Island, go to the Opera, visit teh MOMA, Metropolitan Museum, eat at Union Square Cafe or Tavern on the Green, shop at Macy's & Bloomingdales or SAIL TO EUROPE? NEVER happened.

 

You are either in Manhattan or nowhere! some tradtions are priceless & sailing from teh westside of NYC is one of tehm.

 

Back into the 1920's ocean liners sailed to the carib, & South America in the winter from the Hudson / NYC.

 

Yes teh Westside piers are outdated but last New Years when we boarded teh NCL Dawn the line to check in was wrapped around the pier several times& out the door halfway to the next pier. This was at 2:30 in the afternoon for a 4 pm sailing!

 

Years ago the Rotterdam V & QE2 would be in port on teh same day sharing a pier...certainly more passengers than the NCL Dawn....never was it like it was this year...NCL did a horrible job, not the piers!

 

abe tehy can move Big Ben or teh Vatican to a more convenient place...

[guernseyguy]

Maybe they can move Big Ben or teh Vatican to a more convenient place...

 

Landing at Heathrow once, from the west, the Captain came on the tannoy and annouced 'Ladies and Gentlemen, as we approach Heathrow you will be able to see Windsor Castle'

 

Cue lady with accent from North America - 'Oh yeah, look - why d'ya think they built it so close to the airport......?';)

 

Peter

[KenC]

Nobody is arguing that QM2 shouldn't sail to and from Manhattan - but if the piers need fixing, they need fixing (and they DO need fixing). Has anyone thought that Carnival/Cunard might be a hostage to fortune in this situation. They don't own or have any say in the NY Passenger Terminal so perhaps this situation is out of their hands. Who knows what goes on behind corporate doors - and all I'm saying is that all the squealing about the 'move' to Brooklyn is like closing the stable door etc. and probably ill informed.

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

the squealing...is probably ill informed.

Ken,

 

As ill-informed as the Princess exec who said 'most are asleep on arrival in NY'? If thats the quality of the information on which they are making their decisions, then I fear the decisions are 'ill-informed'. And why has Carnival not moved the Carnival ship that sails from NY (I know, 'coz its Princess thats making the move...)....so why not say the move is temporary......

 

Peter, complaining, not squealing........

[KenC]

Peter (you never squeal!!!)

 

How do we know that Carnival isn't going to move its ship? Anyway, isn't the Red Hook facility smaller than the NYCT so they can't all move? And as there seems to be a problem with QM2 being too long, doesn't it make sense for her to be moved during any rebuild? And finally, if NYCT doesn't want to play ball with Carnival/Cunard, perhaps they are unable or unwilling to commit to saying the move is temporary?

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

Ken,

 

I'd be far happier if Cunard had said something like 'for technical reasons we will be temporarily relocating the QM2 to Broolyn while the upgrade and lengthening of the West side piers takes place. Once that is completed, QM2 will return to Manhattan.' Absolutely no issues with any of that. And if the NYPST didn't do the work, then Carnival/Cunard has an 'out'. However, what we got was:

 

Queen Mary 2 Plans To Abandon Manhattan

Princess, says Dean Brown, executive vice president of fleet operations for both Princess and Cunard, the rationale for the move is...to take care of our customer, both in the short and long terms. "When you sail into New York, a lot of people are still in bed and miss the view,"

 

So, 'Abandon' (Journalist), 'long term' (Princess) and the 'sail into NY' (Princess) comments leave me less than happy - and Princess are responsible for 2 out of 3 of them.

 

Peter

[Cruising Ken]

I understand that Norwegian Cruise Line is staying put in Manhattan. So if you want to get up early and see the classic NY arrival may I suggest a cruise on one of their ships.

You never know, you might like it. I did.

[Rotterdam]

Princess has for the most part been a West Coast product. Other than the old Pacific Princess sailings to Bermuda back in the late 1990's Princess was not a consideration here in NYC harbor.

 

Now they are dictating to CUNARD - a major presence here for over a century - what the passengers are doing on CUNARD ships!!!

 

Manhattan is one of the greatest harbors in the world.....I have been sailing in & out of NYC for over 30 years through all types of weather & always the outside decks are always packed. Even when I was young I would get up early to see the Verrazano & Statue of Liberty as we sailed home. No matter your architectural ideals - the World Trade Center Towers in the late afternoon & early morning lite was spectacular. The rest of the NYC skyline is both memorable, fantastic & nostalgic.

 

So the sailing out of NYC doesn't count to Princess. well we don't think much of the Princess product either - I have not sailed on their ships since the Crown & Regal debuts. BUt I have sailed in & out of NYC many many times since then!

[transatlantic fan]

Have spoken to a person at Cunard that I know quite well and she has told me that the move has not yet been announced by Cunard as they are still unsure if the new pier will be ready in time.If they end up moving to the new pier the QM2 Will do a loop and sail past the statue of Liberty and up the Hudson and then come back and dock.They are well aware that people are not happy about any change.

[Linerguy]

ROTTERDAM said:

 

"Just a few thoughts....when was the last time you heard someone say I am going to Brooklyn....or SAIL TO EUROPE? NEVER happened."

 

Never? Actually, that's incorrect. The North German Lloyd used Brooklyn quite a bit. When they introduced BREMEN & EUROPA in 1929 and 1930, both ships sailed from Brooklyn and NGL advertised that, by sailing on either ship, one was "That much closer to Europe",.....marketing, you gotta love it.

 

NGL eventually abandoned Brooklyn and moved to Manhattan but, the fact is, to say that no one has "NEVER" sailed to Europe from Brooklyn is simply not true.

 

Don't get me wrong. I too am upset with the move to Brooklyn; however, it's the Port Authority I blame, not Carnival Corp. Had the Manhattan piers been kept up and updated over the years, this wouldn't be an issue. I've been sailing from the west side piers for 20 years and nothing has changed,...except they look worse than ever.

 

Respectfully,

 

Russ

[KenC]

Russ

 

I knew there was a reason why we missed you - REASON!!!!

 

Ken

[Rotterdam]

Russ -

 

Thansk for the input. Yes most of the lines sailed from lower Manhattan, Brooklyn & Hoboken years ago.

 

But as far as teh last several years - Manhattan has had it all. The West Side piers are all we have left. Actaully right down the block from where I live is where HAL had a pier & sailed out of til the early 1960's(Morton Street in Greenwich Village)

 

Sailing out of Brooklyn is akin to making a bagel square!(and no hole) IMO!

[Linerguy]

ROTTERDAM:

 

Thanks. I whole-heartedly agree...leaving from Manhattan has been, for the most part, a way of life as far as passenger ships are concerned. And it will certainly be a shame, or should I say 'sham', if it is abandoned for Brooklyn. Still, the blame does not fall on Carnival Corp. (or ANY line for that matter); this is a blunder on the part of the Port Authority.

 

I love sailing from Manhattan; it's a matchless experience that can only be described as 'magical'. Next Thursday, I sail to Southampton and I'm going to savor every second of QM2's departure. Because the Port Authority has dropped the ball, it may be the last time I get to do so.....shame on them indeed.

 

Russ

[guernseyguy]

Thanks. I whole-heartedly agree...leaving from Manhattan has been, for the most part, a way of life as far as passenger ships are concerned. And it will certainly be a shame, or should I say 'sham', if it is abandoned for Brooklyn. Still, the blame does not fall on Carnival Corp. (or ANY line for that matter); this is a blunder on the part of the Port Authority.

 

Russ,

 

I agree that responsibility for the Piers rests wholly with the NYPST, and Carnival have landed in this pickle through no fault of their own. If anyone should have been shouting for decades it should have been that much beloved former Cunard management. However, we are where we are and if only some ships are moving to Brooklyn, then we have yet to hear why the QM2 should be among them. AFAIK Brooklyn will only take two ships and at the peaks NY has 5 - so if some are staying in Manhattan, why not the QM2? Responsibility for that we can lay at Carnival's door.

 

Peter

[Rotterdam]

One of teh problems here in Mnahattan was the severe decline of ships sailing in & out of NYC for the last couple of decades.

 

The current piers are the result of a rebuild back in the 1970's. This was also the start of "cruising" as we know it from Florida etc. The local gov'ts & cruise lines made deals to to upgrade facilities based on the business brought to certain ports. I sailed on 15 February 1975 from Fort Lauderdale on the Angelina Lauro - it was teh Saturday of Presidents weekend - we were the only ship sailing taht day - unbelievable compared to todays statistics. The facilities in FLL in 1975 was a shed with a a gangway you would recognize as the same steps used a few years agao in ports & tendering! The pier was commercial & not pretty. It made the NYC piers look like Buckingham Palace in comparison.

 

Thankfully NYC is coming back - Carnival RCCL parent companies are promising more stops here - along with other lines. The westside piers will be rebuilt once again to accomodate these monster ships.

 

Enjoy your sailing next week - its a beautiful time of year to see our city - by land or sea!

 

Full moon, smooth seas!

[Linerguy]

Thanks, Rotterdam, I'm sure it will be a grand time.

 

-Russ

[Jeanne S]

ROTTERDAM said:

 

"Just a few thoughts....when was the last time you heard someone say I am going to Brooklyn....or SAIL TO EUROPE? NEVER happened."

 

Never? Actually, that's incorrect. The North German Lloyd used Brooklyn quite a bit. When they introduced BREMEN & EUROPA in 1929 and 1930, both ships sailed from Brooklyn and NGL advertised that, by sailing on either ship, one was "That much closer to Europe",.....marketing, you gotta love it.

 

NGL eventually abandoned Brooklyn and moved to Manhattan but, the fact is, to say that no one has "NEVER" sailed to Europe from Brooklyn is simply not true.

 

Don't get me wrong. I too am upset with the move to Brooklyn; however, it's the Port Authority I blame, not Carnival Corp. Had the Manhattan piers been kept up and updated over the years, this wouldn't be an issue. I've been sailing from the west side piers for 20 years and nothing has changed,...except they look worse than ever.

 

Respectfully,

 

Russ

 

 

Hi Russ! And let us not forget the Hamburg to America Line (Hoboken, New Jersey) where Vaterland, later to be name the American Ship Levithan berthed.

 

Just got off the Zenith in lovely Bayonne New Jersey. I like the port much better that NYC. As we sailed out into Upper New York Bay, those wanting to see the Statue of Liberty went portside and had a decent view of it. Some had binoculars. Everyone seemed happy. I know I was happy having only had to ride over the Bayonne Bridge from Staten Island and in 5 min arrive at the terminal. Passengers were also pleased with the lower cost parking ($12/day).

 

Jeanne

[Linerguy]

Jeanne,...

 

Of course Hoboken! Hapag did the same thing NGL did, and that was eventually move to Manhattan.

 

BTW, I have a ton of memorabilia from both VATERLAND & IMPERATOR. Along with CAP ARCONA, they are my favorite three-stackers of all time (sorry Queen Mary fans,...).

 

-Russ

[Jeanne S]

Jeanne,...

 

Of course Hoboken! Hapag did the same thing NGL did, and that was eventually move to Manhattan.

 

BTW, I have a ton of memorabilia from both VATERLAND & IMPERATOR. Along with CAP ARCONA, they are my favorite three-stackers of all time (sorry Queen Mary fans,...).

 

-Russ

 

Vaterland is the ship my granfather was working on when it was seized in Hoboken during WWI. He was arrested and placed in an internment camp until the wars end. Last year the Smithsonian has a great liner exibition that included a very large scale model of the ship.

[Linerguy]

While in Hoboken, VATERLAND was the location of many benefits organized by German-Americans sympathetic to the German cause...(and who could blame them; they were, after all, German). After the ship was seized, during her conversion to LEVIATHAN, much of her wonderful artwork, furniture, etc., was simply chucked overboard onto the dock,...sad to say the least.

 

After the war, she was taken to Newport News to be converted from a troop transport back to a liner. SS UNITED STATES guru, William Francis Gibbs, was put in charge. When the Germans demanded $1M for a set of plans, Gibbs decided to measure every inch of the ship by hand and draw up his own plans. It took, I think, nearly a year but, he managed to do it.

 

If folks are interested in VATERLAND/LEVIATHAN, Frank Braynard's multi-volume set, "LEVIATHAN-World's Greatest Ship" is a priceless resource.

 

Sorry for going way off topic,....

 

-Russ

[cruiserking]

Here are some reasons to be gleeful and joyous about QM2's new happy home in Red Hook, Brooklyn.

 

Boro's burning hot

Growing buzz over hip new place to be

 

BY MELISSA GRACE

DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

 

Brooklyn has become the red-hot center of the universe.

The borough's ever-spiraling hipness index is drawing world-famous architects across the Brooklyn Bridge and a swarm of out-of-state students to local campuses.

 

"Everyone wants to be in Brooklyn," said Joan Wexler, the dean of Brooklyn Law School, where a new downtown dorm was built to accommodate the increase in out-of-town students.

 

But there's more.

 

A seemingly endless stream of new immigrants continue to reinvent old neighborhoods. Attendance at the Brooklyn Museum jumped by nearly 100,000 last year.

 

"There is a buzz out there in America that Brooklyn is the place to be," said Borough President Marty Markowitz. "Especially for young families."

 

Everyone knows the Queen Mary 2 snubbed Manhattan for Red Hook, and that a Las Vegas-style hotel and shopping district are set for Coney Island.

 

Here are some facts you might not know:

 

Out-of-state student enrollment at Brooklyn Law School jumped to 45% of the incoming class - compared with 20% a decade ago. Brooklyn College's enrollment is up 14% this year compared with last year.

 

Experts say as many as 35,000 market-rate apartments will be built downtown, in Williamsburg and Greenpoint over the next three years.

 

Of 2.5 million Brooklyn residents, 38% are foreign-born, according to the 2000 U.S. census.

 

Chris Rock's "Everybody Hates Chris" television show about the comedian's childhood in Bedford-Stuyvesant drew 5.71 million viewers last week.

 

Since 1995, the number of Brooklyn restaurants listed in the Zagat guide has tripled, from 41 a decade ago to 132 eateries this year.

 

The hottest neighborhood for immigrants are Sheepshead Bay and Brighton Beach where 58% of residents choose to settle in Brooklyn. In Flatbush, the percentage of foreign born residents is 55%; in Greenpoint it is 51%.

 

Brooklyn condo prices increased 33% in 2004, according to the Corcoran Group.

 

Brooklyn's tourism bureau drew 6,000 visitors in the first half of 2005, more than the 5,500 visitors who were logged in at the center in all of 2004.

 

Newly opened Steiner Studios is bringing Hollywood to Brooklyn: Mel Brooks, Nicole Kidman, Spike Lee, Jodie Foster, Richard Gere and Denzel Washington all have been spotted there this year.

 

Victoria's Secret and Gatorade are shooting commercials, and Playboy magazine staged a fashion shoot at Steiner.

 

Brooklyn Museum's First Saturdays - sponsored by Target - have drawn as many as 14,000 visitors this year - up from 2,500 when the free monthly program opened in 1998.

 

This summer, 14.5 million people went to the beach in Coney Island. That's 5 million more than last summer.

 

Bold-face named architects are building in Brooklyn, including Richard Meier, Frank Gehry, Enrique Norton and Cesar Pelli.

 

Republican Mayor Bloomberg threw himself a megabash at the Marriott Hotel in downtown on Democratic primary night this year.

 

Originally published on October 16, 2005

 

Cruiserking

[guernseyguy]

Here are some reasons to be gleeful and joyous about QM2's new happy home in Red Hook, Brooklyn.

 

Cruiserking - encouraging indeed! Will you be staying in Brooklyn pre or post your next cruise?

 

I thought I'd check today's NY Times to see what the other news from Brooklyn today is. I post what I found without comment:

 

Published: October 17, 2005

NEW YORK

BROOKLYN: TWO ARE SHOT DURING ARGUMENT A man was killed and a bystander was injured during a quarrel early yesterday in Bedford-Stuyvesant, the police said........

 

BROOKLYN: MAN FATALLY STABBED A Queens man was found stabbed to death in Cypress Hills yesterday morning, the police said.

 

Peter

 

Yes, yes, the NY Times is no doubt very Manhattan-centric & no doubt lots of good things are going on in Brooklyn....

[cruiserking]

Guernseyguy,

 

Only three murders?

 

Where's the Brooklyn Spa, I'm in.

 

Perhaps all the other marauders have gotten day jobs and are saving for a lovely cruise to Europe.

 

We could have inaugural year Brooklyn T-shirts printed up. But, what we really need is a Cunard/Brooklyn rally song perhaps you can help write it.

 

I'll start..

 

It's a brand new pier with a whole new look-lyn

Who needs the Hudson when you've got a babbling Brooklyn

Put your dairy in your dory in the Buttermilk Channel

then board the QM2 with your steamer trunk and spaniel..

 

Your turn Guernseyguy -

 

Cruiserking