Concordia News: Please Post Here

[swedish weave]

[quote=Tonka's Skipper;36754277]As always ............mis information being put out by the same person.

This is not just the US and its never been the Captian having to stay until the last person. It not just the US rules its, Norweign, British, Swedish, Itily and Canada that I know of. All that person has is Solas, which doesnt totally support her opinion.

It very easy to change the focus from the truth/facts and make this a US rules are the world rules. It is not.

When reading please note the person keeps leaving out facts and wanders in a fantasy world , trying to com people into believing her.

AKK[/quote]

Not alone !!! No further comment !!!

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='swedish weave']Not alone !!! No further comment !!![/quote]


As before you know not of what you speak.not to mention by your comment, you don't even know what this thread is about............AKK Edited January 20, 2013 by Tonka's Skipper

[Ken711]

Latest weekly report shows a photo with the title "Paint removal operations"

[url]http://www.giglionews.it/images/stories/allegati/rel_sett_osservatorio200113.pdf[/url]

[swedish weave]

[quote=Tonka's Skipper;36757452]As before you know not of what you speak.not to mention by your comment, you don't even know what this thread is about............AKK[/quote]

I apologize !!!! I didn't realize there were so many of us who know nothing.:rolleyes:

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='swedish weave']I apologize !!!! I didn't realize there were so many of us who know nothing.:rolleyes:[/quote]


All you need to do is read the past posts...no reason to apolize...........no biggie..AKK

[swedish weave]

[quote=Tonka's Skipper;36758631]All you need to do is read the past posts...no reason to apolize...........no biggie..AKK[/quote]

I have read them, and still didn't realize that I knew nothing until you pointed it out.:rolleyes: I am almost certain that others appreciate your pointing out their lack of knowledge, also. Edited January 20, 2013 by swedish weave

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='Rochesterboatingdotcom']...and on the CBS video the project manager estimated that one chance at a 70% chance of success.[/quote]


This does bring up a interesting thought which we have not talked about over the last year..................what happens next if the wreck does not right and is not floated as expected?

What if she rolls right over onto her port side, off the platform and into deep water?

What if the plaform fails or she does break in 2?

What happens if they can't even get her to roll unpright?


AKK

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='swedish weave']I have read them, and still didn't realize that I knew nothing until you pointed it out.:rolleyes: I am almost certain that others appreciate your pointing out their lack of knowledge, also.[/quote]

If you have read them you should have noted that we are discussing the international and national maritime laws regarding a Masters duty and responsibliies.

Thier is indeed 1 person here that I dont beleive knows as much as she thinks she does and I object to twisted facts. It does get heated.

She at least has the class not the drop short cheap snarky comments and then run out of the room.

Continue to stalk me and I will report you to the Mod/adminstration for whatever action they may deem proper.

AKK

[SomeBeach]

[quote=Tonka's Skipper;36758718]This does bring up a interesting thought which we have not talked about over the last year..................what happens next if the wreck does not right and is not floated as expected?

What if she rolls right over onto her port side, off the platform and into deep water?

What if the plaform fails or she does break in 2?

What happens if they can't even get her to roll unpright?


AKK[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]I have often wondered if there is a anything in the contract about what happens if this fails. :confused:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='CostaSmurfette']Individual countries or states MAY require a captain/master to stay with his/her ship...BUT...under IMOSOLAS1974 there is NO LEGAL requirement to do so...they have left it to the individual states/countries to add that into their rules and regulations if they so wish.

Now, whether or not Italy has made it a requirement under THEIR maritime laws is one thing but it is certainly NOT a requirement under SOLAS1974 to remain with the ship.[/quote]

In this particular case Italian law takes precedence over SOLAS. In Italy, a captain who abandons his ship before it sinks, especially while passengers are still aboard, faces charges for failing to meet his / her duty of care. Additionally, under Article 1097 of Italy’s Maritime Law, if the commander of a vessel is not the last to leave, he risks at least two years in jail; if the vessel is lost, two to eight years; if the vessel is used to carry people, three to 12 years.

[quote name='CostaSmurfette']
Had there been no US citizens on the ship, this thread probably wouldn't have even been started anyway...one certainly wasn't when Sea Diamond sank in 2007 with two lives lost....[/quote]Incorrect. The original thread before the various lock downs and deletions was started by an Italian, ItalianGuest was the moniker on CC, IIRC.

[quote name='CostaSmurfette']
Some of you are so fixated on the USA way of doing things that you are blind to what is actually happening....and those who decry the way that Carnival Corp do things and see them as doing no wrong are either stockholders scared that their stock will dive when the truth comes out or just selective readers who are in total denial..[/quote] VP, Uniall and others have pointed out to you Article 1097 of Italy’s Maritime Law -- this is not the USA way of doing things, this is Italian Maritime Law. You refuse to acknowlege this for some strange reason.


[quote name='CostaSmurfette']
Get your heads out of the sand, leave the USA way of doing things to one side and start looking at this for what it is...an accident that was bound to happen and an accident that has been asking to happen for decades.

Carnival Corp DO put pressure on ports...I know this as a FACT from discussing it with those who have been watching what has been going on from a distance for many years...Concordia was not 100% functioning and had she belonged to ANY other corporation or company she would definitely have been impounded until fixed...but due to the size and weight of Carnival Corp and their huge number of ships that use the ports that Concroda was in prior to the accident, they most certainly put pressure on the ports to let her sail regardless of her condition.

You guys need to wake up and smell the coffee....The USA way is NOT the world way.[/quote] The CS Way not the World Way you surely mean. Taking what a few posters correctly point out as Italian Maritime law and calling it the USA way is highly illogical. Which begs the question, are you a Troll or Scene Queen? My money is on the latter.

[watertheodds]

[quote name='Vampire Parrot']CostaSmurfette posted
Please provide a reference. It would be interesting to see what equipment had failed.

Note:

[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Costa_Concordia_2.JPG[/URL]
shows that Costa Concordia had at least two radars. Two are visible on the top mast just ahead of the flags.

VP[/quote]

CS - you have maintained (and quite often) that much equipment on board failed or was not working properly, I think you have mentioned the auto pilot - which they were using, the black box - much has been quoted from the black box recordings, the radar - also used that night. Can you please as Vampire Parrot requested some posts back, provide a reference to the equipment that was inoperable and should have kept the Concordia from sailing as you have mentioned countless times? Thanks!

[swedish weave]

US courts have made rulings that uphold the cruise lines requirement that lawsuits be filed in a certain location.

Those who would like to see Costa's parent company dragged into the problem have a very steep hill to climb. The cruise lines have built a defense against this type of litigation and cases can drag on for many years.

Marc Bern, the lead plaintiffs’ attorney, said he believes the contract terms that require lawsuits to be filed in Italy are “null and void by virtue of the extreme nature of the conduct” of the captain. But U.S. courts have held that such clauses are valid.

Also, the Italian courts will not process suits while a criminal investigation is ongoing.

Regarding the Sea Diamond. A couple that sued in a US court settled for $2500.00 because of a requirement that the suit had to be filed in Greece. That suit in Greece is still pending.

A bit of internet research will help separate the facts from opinions.

The following is a link to the Costa ticket contract. It may provide some interesting reading for those who are interested.

[URL]http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/USA/Support/contract/contract.htm[/URL] Edited January 21, 2013 by swedish weave

[Uniall]

[quote name='swedish weave']US courts have made rulings that uphold the cruise lines requirement that lawsuits be filed in a certain location.

Those who would like to see Costa's parent company dragged into the problem have a very steep hill to climb. The cruise lines have built a defense against this type of litigation and cases can drag on for many years.

Marc Bern, the lead plaintiffs’ attorney, said he believes the contract terms that require lawsuits to be filed in Italy are “null and void by virtue of the extreme nature of the conduct” of the captain. But U.S. courts have held that such clauses are valid.

Also, the Italian courts will not process suits while a criminal investigation is ongoing.

Regarding the Sea Diamond. A couple that sued in a US court settled for $2500.00 because of a requirement that the suit had to be filed in Greece. That suit in Greece is still pending.

A bit of internet research will help separate the facts from opinions.[/quote]

The correctness of your statements regarding present case status in various jurisdictions is Yes, No and Maybe. The situation is very fluid due to lower court decisions and pending appeals.

By the by, Greece has some very unusual special laws (civil & criminal) to protect Greek citizens.

The most unusual I encountered was a refusal to extradite an American citizen accused of committing crimes in US because he was eligible for dual citizenship in Greece, since his parents had been born in Greece.

Greece said if the US sent the evidence and witnesses to Greece, Greek prosecutors would file the case in a Greek court.

[SomeBeach]

[URL="http://www.wikihow.com/Image:Brick-Wall.jpg"][IMG]http://pad1.whstatic.com/images/6/6a/Brick-Wall.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

;)
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[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]CT, I do remember Italian Guest. He did a lot of translating for us. He also did a lot of apologizing for his country because of the actions of the Captain. I can recall so many of us telling him the actions of one did not represent the whole country.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]People on board the Concordia were calling family/friends to ask that the police and/or CG be notified of a serious problem on the ship. The CG contacted Concordia to inquire. The Captain reported electrical issues and they were looking into it. Does that enter into this, lying to a CG official since the Captain knew the ship was taking on water?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[sidari]

"Marc Bern, the lead plaintiffs’ attorney, said he believes the contract terms that require lawsuits to be filed in Italy are “null and void by virtue of the extreme nature of the conduct” of the captain. But U.S. courts have held that such clauses are valid"

About two weeks a go a judge in the USA threw out a claim made there telling the lawyer etc that the claim had to be made in Italy!

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='SomeBeach'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]I have often wondered if there is a anything in the contract about what happens if this fails. :confused:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]


One thing we do know for sure is that there is no garrenttee that it will work, I would expect that to be written into the contract in some way.

I would also think there are back up plans, but they have not be released to my knowledge.

AKK

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='sidari']"Marc Bern, the lead plaintiffs’ attorney, said he believes the contract terms that require lawsuits to be filed in Italy are “null and void by virtue of the extreme nature of the conduct” of the captain. But U.S. courts have held that such clauses are valid"

About two weeks a go a judge in the USA threw out a claim made there telling the lawyer etc that the claim had to be made in Italy![/quote]

Hey there sid,

One thing about courts, in the US and around the world, is decisions change, again and agian.

One bulk carrier case I was involving with, also having claim juristiction issues went on for 8 years.

In the end and many suits, briefs, courts and judges in all 3 countrys, (the US, Britian and Greece ) ended with all 3 countries involved in various issues ansd suits. In the end all were settled out of court.

The moral of all this is to never take 1 decsion and say its over. In Maritime law and international issues, never say never.

AKK Edited January 21, 2013 by Tonka's Skipper

[sidari]

Tonka ... yep the world sure is screwed where courts are concerned, on the one hand it might be this but on the other hand it might be that ... :D

[sidari]

Think i recall one of the main men saying it would take at least 48 hours to move the ship upright! could be wishful thinking on his part but these guys know what they are doing despite it being the first of its kind.

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='sidari']Think i recall one of the main men saying it would take at least 48 hours to move the ship upright! could be wishful thinking on his part but these guys know what they are doing despite it being the first of its kind.[/quote]


They are some of the best experts in the world in their field.!

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='sidari']Tonka ... yep the world sure is screwed where courts are concerned, on the one hand it might be this but on the other hand it might be that ... :D[/quote]


Maybe they should all just flip some coins!:rolleyes:

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='Uniall']The correctness of your statements regarding present case status in various jurisdictions is Yes, No and Maybe. The situation is very fluid due to lower court decisions and pending appeals.

[COLOR=red]By the by, Greece has some very unusual special laws (civil & criminal) to protect Greek citizens. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red] [/COLOR]
The most unusual I encountered was a refusal to extradite an American citizen accused of committing crimes in US because he was eligible for dual citizenship in Greece, since his parents had been born in Greece.

Greece said if the US sent the evidence and witnesses to Greece, Greek prosecutors would file the case in a Greek court.[/quote]


this is one reason the Greek Captian of the Ocainos got off!

[Ken711]

[QUOTE=Tonka's Skipper;36758718]This does bring up a interesting thought which we have not talked about over the last year..................what happens next if the wreck does not right and is not floated as expected?

What if she rolls right over onto her port side, off the platform and into deep water?

What if the plaform fails or she does break in 2?

What happens if they can't even get her to roll unpright?


AKK[/QUOTE]

It would seem the only recourse if the hull doesn't take the stress and starts to split is to break up the ship where it lies. The environmental clean-up cost at that point would be immense.

[swedish weave]

[quote name='clive and anne']Please correct me if I'm wrong TS but, as you say, there are all those holes in the side wont the polluted water spill out anyway, unless of course they block up the doors,portholes etc.[/quote]


Titan and Microperi plan to seal up all the holes in the ships hull and seal the interior into airtight compartments, then pump air into them to assist in flotation.

I believe they are working in unison with the 28 insurance companies that will bear most of the cost of the damage and recovery. Edited January 21, 2013 by swedish weave

[sidari]

Tonka ... Think you may find this interesting, i have just watched a tv programme called the "German Titanic" the German version of the Titanic story using a ship called the Cap Arcona, the ship was filled with over 5,000 detainees who had been transferred from prison camps. The ship was unable to move and had been filled with Gas tanks which were to be used to Gas the people on the ship! Cap Arcona was attacked by the RAF which the Germans knew would happen and less than 300 survived.

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_Arcona[/URL]

A very Titanic Interior as well.

[url]http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/series/cap-arcona/[/url] Edited January 21, 2013 by sidari