Do you think RCCL will ever build bigger than OasislAllure?

[pjnj40]

I think they will end it here for now. Once all the other cruise line get to their Oasis size then they will try to supersize the Oasis. Right now the NCL breakaway project is coming out and it seem to be the same size as one of the RCL ship but not sure which one.

 

This is IMO

[JAMESCC]

Meyer Werft are at the very limit of what they can build now, unless they do something about that bridge, plus the river would have to be significantly altered to fit something like Oasis down it. That's one of the reasons why they have to go down the river backwards, as it is easier to line up the stern with the narrow opening in the bridge than the bow.

 

If there was going to be another candidate for such a ship, it would probably be Fincantieri. They would have to build a bigger drydock, but they wouldn't have any issues with bridges. Besides, they must be sick of building the same Carnival clone ships each year, they could do with something interesting to build.

 

A2Mich made a good point about the Asian yards. Sapphire Princess and Diamond Princess were built by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, so they are perfectly capable of building passenger ships. Something tells me RCI would want to stick with shipyards with more passenger shipbuilding experience though.

 

I was gonna ask, Fincantieri seems to only have one client, Carnival. They seems to just make the same ship in different sizes over and over again. The new Princess ships seems to be a bit, just a hair different but not a whole lot. Does Fincantieri have any other passenger ship customers besides Carnival corp.?

Also I have another question. After RCCL built exclusively with Turku, they went with Meyer Werft, what is the full story behind that? Was it simply a better price thing or was there more to it? I ask this because STX seemed to work well with RCCL and they seemed to happy with STX.

[littlesteelo]

I was gonna ask, Fincantieri seems to only have one client, Carnival. They seems to just make the same ship in different sizes over and over again. The new Princess ships seems to be a bit, just a hair different but not a whole lot. Does Fincantieri have any other passenger ship customers besides Carnival corp.?

Also I have another question. After RCCL built exclusively with Turku, they went with Meyer Werft, what is the full story behind that? Was it simply a better price thing or was there more to it? I ask this because STX seemed to work well with RCCL and they seemed to happy with STX.

 

Fincantieri do have other customers, they just have a good relationship with Carnival. They have a lot of ships operating in Europe too, so they don't have to go far. It's one of those 'stick with what you know' things. Their newbuilds are unimpressive though. They milk prototype designs far too much (Destiny, Grand, Vista etc.). The new Royal Princess, if you compare deck plans is just an enlarged Grand class. Carnival haven't had a genuine new design for years now.

 

RCI have used Meyer as well as STX for a while now. They built the Radiance Class, and I would guess the newbuild team were impressed with how the Solstice Class turned out, and decided to return to Meyer for Sunshine. The yard is renowned for it's quality too (look at the new Disney ships).

They will have gotten a quote from STX too, and Meyer Werft probably gave a better deal. They won't have ditched STX, they have been with them for years now, through the yard's many name and owner changes.

[JAMESCC]

I have no doubt Meyer Werft puts out quality ships, just was wondering why they went that way this time around. Your points make sense, thanks. I will be extremely interested in seeing what these new ships from Meyer Werft will look like, when will we see some design pictures you think?

Also yes, Carnival does not really do innovation, they seem to not care at all with "breaking the mold" and I don't understand that other than, its cheaper to do things this way. Does that about sum up why Carnival does ships the way they do?

[littlesteelo]

I have no doubt Meyer Werft puts out quality ships, just was wondering why they went that way this time around. Your points make sense, thanks. I will be extremely interested in seeing what these new ships from Meyer Werft will look like, when will we see some design pictures you think?

Also yes, Carnival does not really do innovation, they seem to not care at all with "breaking the mold" and I don't understand that other than, its cheaper to do things this way. Does that about sum up why Carnival does ships the way they do?

 

I doubt we will see anything about Sunshine until next year.

 

You are right about Carnival. They own a lot of cruise lines. Developing completely new designs for each line would be expensive. The far cheaper and more logical decision is to make a couple of prototypes and then modify them for each cruise line, for example the Destiny design has been used to death now, with 18 ships based on it between Carnival and Costa, and 2 on order. The new Dream class, while it looks different, is still based off of Destiny. It is a strategy which works from an economic point of view, but results in an ultimately unimpressive fleet, unlike that of Royal Caribbean, where there is a lot more variety in the ships.

That isn't to say RCCL haven't played that game. While quite different above the waterline, the Radiance Class and the Millennium Class of Celebrity both share very similar hull designs.

 

The thing is, RCCL only own 3 cruise lines. If they didn't create such impressive and revolutionary ships, they would have a lot less of an impression on the market as they do now.

[JAMESCC]

Yeah that all makes perfect sense, but i think Carnival would be wise to make a big splash, not necessarily in terms of size but design. At some point, it all just looks like the same old, same old.

Anyway I can't wait to see the "Sunshine" designs.

[loubetti]

For the past 10 years or so, if not 20, we've seen ships grow to become destinations unto themselves, thus the term "floating resorts". Frankly, I don't even care about the ports of call very much. Been there done that, and down in the Caribbean they all start to look the same to me. I'll let folks get off, and enjoy a somewhat empty ship.

 

As to building bigger, where there is a will (and money) there is a way. Harland & Wolf had to completely rebuild their ship yard to accommodate the then gargantuan Olympic, Titanic and Britannic, which were of the unheard of size of 45,000 tons!

 

I was fortunate to be on board QE2 when they announced the building of QM2, which at the time would be the largest ocean liner / passenger vessel ever. The architect of the ship, Stephen Payne was on board, and he commented that he and Chantiers de l'Atlantique had to do their homework, as no ship yard had built an ocean liner, never mind a 150,000 ton one in some 30 years (that was QE2). Well, they did it, and the result is still amazing.

 

So, as we look at some ships becoming the destination itself, bigger is in the future, and there will be someone who will make the effort to pay to build them, and a ship yard(s) that will rise to the occasion, along with passengers who no longer view the port stops as a priority.

[JAMESCC]

I agree the ships are the destination for me, they are the vacation. I can take some of the ports and I could leave some of the ports. From NJ we go to Bermuda a lot and we really like it, but some of those southern ports I would not like to go back to. We loved EVERY port on our Canada/NE though, but Explorer is no longer going there and that kills us. WE LOVED Explorer of the Canada/NE cruise, LOVED it.

[NewShips]

RCI have used Meyer as well as STX for a while now. They built the Radiance Class, and I would guess the newbuild team were impressed with how the Solstice Class turned out, and decided to return to Meyer for Sunshine. The yard is renowned for it's quality too (look at the new Disney ships).

They will have gotten a quote from STX too, and Meyer Werft probably gave a better deal. They won't have ditched STX, they have been with them for years now, through the yard's many name and owner changes.

 

I've heard the STX Europes turku yard had an offer 40 meur lower/per ship than the accepted Meyer one, RCI reasoning was that STX had/has still things left to fix on oasis class, apparently they (STX) could have painted something red and still argue that it was within the white family of colors as requested :) and yes Meyer do great quality ships

 

after the 4200 (do) capacity of project sunshine a ~4700 class would be the logical next step.. more normal size growth, then they are back to oasis class in terms of passenger numbers, so they might just save a few bucks and continue oasis class, giving the ports plenty of time to catch up...:cool:

 

Also it would be very fun if RCI ordered that pinnacle class ship Financeri did drawings of, not sure they can though :D

[jlajla]

Interesting discussion.

 

I am anxious to see what the Sunshine class looks like. I have seen SOOO many people say in SOOO many posts that what they most want to see in a new ship is a more radiance-like feel with more ocean views. If I was building a ship, I would be seriously listening to that.

 

If they can find a way to weave some of those more outside-feeling components (the outside elevators, views of the sea from more bars, etc), but still keep the big ship component, I think they will have a winner. Of course, there is only so much "real estate" that can be ocean-facing! lol

 

Maybe longer rather than wider? Not sure the mechanics/physics of that, but there would be more outside space that way....

[littlesteelo]

Interesting discussion.

 

I am anxious to see what the Sunshine class looks like. I have seen SOOO many people say in SOOO many posts that what they most want to see in a new ship is a more radiance-like feel with more ocean views. If I was building a ship, I would be seriously listening to that.

 

If they can find a way to weave some of those more outside-feeling components (the outside elevators, views of the sea from more bars, etc), but still keep the big ship component, I think they will have a winner. Of course, there is only so much "real estate" that can be ocean-facing! lol

 

Maybe longer rather than wider? Not sure the mechanics/physics of that, but there would be more outside space that way....

 

I doubt we will see outside elevators, but bars with sea views might be on the cards. The problem with the Voyager/Freedom Classes is that most of the bars are either located on Deck 4, so the windows look out onto the lifeboat deck, or on Deck 5 on the Royal Promenade, which has no windows.

 

Personally I don't find it to be an issue. I can get sea views from a bar in the Viking Crown, and there is a huge amount of open deck space on the Freedom Class where I can sit down with a drink and watch the sea. I love getting a drink from one of the pool bars and then going to sit down on one of the sofas or the swing benches in the solarium and just watch the sunset. Or getting a mojito from Boleros and sitting out on the outdoor promenade deck... :D

 

About making the ship longer, that would make it unstable. As a rule of thumb, long thin ships are faster but more unstable, and wider ships are more stable but slower.

[Ray in NH]

I am sad that the emphasis on cruising has become inward, towards activities, entertainment, and food, instead of outward towards the ocean, exciting ports and relaxation. When we were young we hated the idea of cruising on a floating hotel, but when we started cruising we found that we loved being on the water looking out at the ocean and visiting new places. Now, it's hard to find a quiet place on a ship to just sit and watch the ocean, or finding a lounge that has windows looking at the sea and the ports are so redundant, same old, same old, over and over. The adventures are few and far between.

 

We will continue to cruise but we will avoid ships larger than the Freedom and we are doing our best to stay out of the Caribbean.

 

Have you considered Holland America Line?

[jlajla]

I doubt we will see outside elevators, but bars with sea views might be on the cards. The problem with the Voyager/Freedom Classes is that most of the bars are either located on Deck 4, so the windows look out onto the lifeboat deck, or on Deck 5 on the Royal Promenade, which has no windows.

 

Personally I don't find it to be an issue. I can get sea views from a bar in the Viking Crown, and there is a huge amount of open deck space on the Freedom Class where I can sit down with a drink and watch the sea. I love getting a drink from one of the pool bars and then going to sit down on one of the sofas or the swing benches in the solarium and just watch the sunset. Or getting a mojito from Boleros and sitting out on the outdoor promenade deck... :D

 

About making the ship longer, that would make it unstable. As a rule of thumb, long thin ships are faster but more unstable, and wider ships are more stable but slower.

 

Yep, that all makes sense. Personally, I do not mind the larger ships as they are. I feel like I can always get some outside views if I want, or enjoy the people-watching on the promenade if I want to do that. That said, I have not been on Radiance, and the idea of a more "glass" ship is appealing to me as well. If I had the chance to cruise more often, I would try the Radiance class, but in the end, Voyager class wins out (having not yet been on the even bigger ones).

 

I just feel like if that is what we are hearing over and over.... "more like a big Radiance," then RCI would wise to pay attention.

[B-52]

I'm frustrated by the lack of options for cruising in the Caribbean during the summer. I feel as though the presence of, and need to fill, Allure and Oasis, has them sending a variety of smaller ships around the world and leaving us with very limited itinerarries for summer cruises in North America.

 

Also, the size of Oasis and Allure limits the ports they at which they can stop.

 

 

Like the other poster mentioned, if they can design it to be all inclusive within itself, and people enjoyed being on the ship for all the ship has to offer, then I can see where they would sail and never stop at any ports.

Would mean more money for them, and if people enjoy it as a resort unto itself, then why not?

 

Every review you read about the Oasis/Allure speaks highly about all the places to eat, the shows, and just the WOW factor of being there.

Not much mentioned about the cruise itself.

[Desertbelle]

Have you considered Holland America Line?

 

We have never had any interest in HAL, and I would highly doubt we will ever cruise with them...just not our cup o'tea. We prefer Royal Caribbean and Celebrity, for a lot of reasons. But I doubt we will ever cruise on Oasis/Allure unless they move them out of the Northern Caribbean, lengthen the cruises to at least 10 days and lower the prices in comparison to their older ships. Otherwise we will be happy cruising on the older Royal Caribbean ships.

[A2Mich]

Fincantieri do have other customers, they just have a good relationship with Carnival. They have a lot of ships operating in Europe too, so they don't have to go far. It's one of those 'stick with what you know' things. Their newbuilds are unimpressive though. They milk prototype designs far too much (Destiny, Grand, Vista etc.). The new Royal Princess, if you compare deck plans is just an enlarged Grand class. Carnival haven't had a genuine new design for years now.

 

RCI have used Meyer as well as STX for a while now. They built the Radiance Class, and I would guess the newbuild team were impressed with how the Solstice Class turned out, and decided to return to Meyer for Sunshine. The yard is renowned for it's quality too (look at the new Disney ships).

They will have gotten a quote from STX too, and Meyer Werft probably gave a better deal. They won't have ditched STX, they have been with them for years now, through the yard's many name and owner changes.

 

Also, RCI has a good track record with Chantiers d'l Atlantique - That particular yard, now part of STX Europe, BTW, built all of the Sovereign class ships, as well as Legend, Splendour, Rhapsody, and Vision, while around the same time frame, Kvaerner-Masa/Finnyards/Aker Finnyards/STX Helsinki built the Enchantment and Grandeur. Speaking of Vision class ships, although they are classified as one "class," they are actually 3 pairs of twin-sisters, not all cookie cutter clones like the 8 Fantasy class ships built by Kvaerner-Masa for Carnival.

 

I don't know how much of the decision is based on cost, delivery date, etc. I could see delivery date being an issue, as these shipyards build a lot of other vessels other than cruise ships, with STX Turku/Helsinki building a large number of passenger/auto ferries as well, so drydock space at the time of contracting, may have a large impact on whether or not a particular shipyard gets a contract or not. I don't really see RCI contracting with Fincantieri any time soon, as they have no previous working relationship together. As far as Fincantieri, who also built the 2 original Disney ships (Meyer Werft building the Dream and Fantasy), the nicest ships I have seen from them are the Carnival Legend class, and the 1990's era Princess Sun Class ships.