Designer jeans - the new cocktail dress

[Jane110]

I haven't yet been to Europe, but I hear you can pick out the Americans because of the bright colors and sneakers they all wear! I'm very much looking forward to visiting Italy and Spain in a couple of years and would very much like to know what is appropriate to wear. (Note to self....ditch the sneakers and tropical shirts when on my Med cruise!)

 

Kathy,

 

Yes, it's SO true! Wear somber colors, linen pants and comfortable flat shoes and you'll fit right in. If you're in France, wear a scarf around your neck and if you're in Italy, wear multiple gold bracelets - they'll think you're a native! :)

 

Jane

[verogiugio]

ondeckatsea,

 

Your confusing price with looks.

Price has no relationship whatsoever to whether something is casual or formal.

 

I love jeans, IF the wearer has the figure for them. However, if the cruiseline requests no jeans in the dining room, then most of us feel it's appropriate to abide by the dress code. That's really the gist of this thread.

 

Jane

 

Absolutely true!

Formal and casual have nothing to do with price.

 

And I also agree that if Cruiseline specifically request no jeans in the dining room, it is approptiate to follow their rules.

[verogiugio]

Kathy,

 

Yes, it's SO true! Wear somber colors, linen pants and comfortable flat shoes and you'll fit right in. If you're in France, wear a scarf around your neck and if you're in Italy, wear multiple gold bracelets - they'll think you're a native! :)

 

Jane

 

I have to disagree with the last one..;)

You are probably referring to third generation Italians in New York:D .

Do you want to look Italian in Italy?

Ok, then choose sober colors, cotton, silk, and linen rather than rayon and nylon, no sneakers outside the gyms, really try to match colors and no sparklings! From what I read in your posts you are actually doing it so, go to Italy, you will love it!

Regarding Franch people (I am from the Alps, between italy and France), you can spot French women for their tailleurs..really. Not only for going to work, they really wear them to go for lunch on week ends too.

Also, they always have the best sunglasses (italian sunglasses always, but they buy the best!) and they are big lovers of cardingans and twin sets.

[folashade]

And leave the baseball caps at home when in Europe

[caviargal]

I have to disagree with the last one..;)

You are probably referring to third generation Italians in New York:D .

Do you want to look Italian in Italy?

Ok, then choose sober colors, cotton, silk, and linen rather than rayon and nylon, no sneakers outside the gyms, really try to match colors and no sparklings! From what I read in your posts you are actually doing it so, go to Italy, you will love it!

Regarding Franch people (I am from the Alps, between italy and France), you can spot French women for their tailleurs..really. Not only for going to work, they really wear them to go for lunch on week ends too.

Also, they always have the best sunglasses (italian sunglasses always, but they buy the best!) and they are big lovers of cardingans and twin sets.

 

 

I am lucky enough to spend time in Italy every year. I find the women and men to be very well dressed. I mus say that in my six visits over the past two years, somber colors were not what I saw in Milan, Rome and Florence. Yes, they wear natural fabrics; silks, linens, wool. And fabulous shoes and purses as well. But color is everywhere in the daytime fashion choices.

 

The cut of the clothes makes for wonderful draping and fit and all generations wear their clothes with style. Yes, no gym shoes (hooray) and no t-shirt/jeans/running suit stuff either. Skirts, tailored pants, suits, dresses. And heels all day and night.

 

In the evenings at the opera, theater and finer restaurants, the Italians are impeccably dressed. I imagine they would be horified at how many Americans dress to go out to dinner in a nice restaurant. I certainly am.

 

I am Italian and have been visiting Italy since I was sixteen. My godmother and aunt were dress designers who came from Italy to NY. I grew up appreciating beautiful clothes and am grateful for all that I have learned and experienced.

 

I hope to live in Italy some day.

[momofmeg]

I am lucky enough to spend time in Italy every year. I find the women and men to be very well dressed. I mus say that in my six visits over the past two years, somber colors were not what I saw in Milan, Rome and Florence. Yes, they wear natural fabrics; silks, linens, wool. And fabulous shoes and purses as well. But color is everywhere in the daytime fashion choices.

 

 

I am Italian and have been visiting Italy since I was sixteen. My godmother and aunt were dress designers who came from Italy to NY. I grew up appreciating beautiful clothes and am grateful for all that I have learned and experienced.

 

I hope to live in Italy some day.

 

My husband's sisters went to Italy in February a little over a year ago. They were on a train going to Milan when this older gentelman started screaming at them because he recognized them as Americans-apparently some Italians hate Bush and the Iraq thing and some of them hate Americans lumping all Americans with Bush.

 

My one sister inlaw does not wear sneakers, jeans etc. for normal daywear. She dresses really nice-the only time you find her dressed down is in the summer when she spends a lot of time on weekends in her lake house-then you will find her in birkenstocks (never sneakers) and a swimsuit with a cover up over it. (at her lakehouse)

 

But I know her well enough she did not go around like a bum in Italy. Why would she there when she wears only the best here? (she also dresses very subdued- no bright colors for her but she does have very nice jewelry-her husband is wealthy-we are the "poor" relations I guess) But still she was recognized as an American and treated very shabbily by this person.

 

As I said we are planning to spend a few days in France in 2007 before we start our cruise-I am a little concerned about this as I know the French are not too crazy about Americans either. I have nothing against French people- I have a good bit of French in me-I am a direct descendant of Benjamin Merrell, (revolutionary war hero)his family name was orginially De Marle-the De Marle's left France because they were Hugenots and persecuted for their religious beliefs.

 

But I would still like to see a little of my ancestors' home. Which is why we picked this particular cruise (instead of a med.) as we are also English, Irish and Scottish. I am very proud of all my ancestry-even the the Cherokee and choctow-which I feel makes me a "real" American.

 

I feel this is why most Americans want to go to Europe. They want to see their "roots". At least that is why I want to go.

[rykersdad]

During the day in Alaska, jeans are very common. That is not the discussion in this thread.

 

.. I guess that explains this....

[Jane110]

I am sorry but I really feel like all of you misunderstood my post and I think it is my fault since I am not an English native speaker. However, I never said that people are not dressed formal on formal nights! Never.

I just said that the what Americans define formal is not considered formal in Europe for istance and viceversa.

I just said that sometimes it is more classy and formal a long simple black dress than a huge beaded gown which can be good for a prom but not sor a Captain's party.

Since my boyfriend is a Command in Second and Safety Officer on The Carnival Pride I do know how people dress.

So, my post was not meant to say thhat people are not dress formal or that people should not dress formal. Of course, they should! i just wanted to make a point on what formal means around the world.

 

Verogiugio,

 

I understood what you meant in your first post, but I'm glad your clarified it for some that may not have.

 

It's so nice to have a european on this board - especially one who's boyfriend is an officer on a major cruiseline. Welcome! I look forward to your contributions here!

 

Jane

[Jane110]

... your English is fair, but I could tell that you were NOT American, by your posting. Read between the lines.

 

Huh? Unless I'm mssing something here, why are you insulting verogiugio?

 

I only wish I could speak italian as well as she speaks english!

 

Jane

[Jane110]

I have to disagree with the last one..;)

You are probably referring to third generation Italians in New York:D .

Do you want to look Italian in Italy?

Ok, then choose sober colors, cotton, silk, and linen rather than rayon and nylon, no sneakers outside the gyms, really try to match colors and no sparklings! From what I read in your posts you are actually doing it so, go to Italy, you will love it!

Regarding Franch people (I am from the Alps, between italy and France), you can spot French women for their tailleurs..really. Not only for going to work, they really wear them to go for lunch on week ends too.

Also, they always have the best sunglasses (italian sunglasses always, but they buy the best!) and they are big lovers of cardingans and twin sets.

 

Verogiugio,

 

I agree with you about the sunglasses and twinsets. Maybe that's one of the reasons I'm always taken for a local.<g> I wear pricey sunglasses and wear twinsets a lot since they are so practical. And like many New Yorkers, my sneakers are only worn at the gym.

 

But we'll have to agree to disagree about the gold. I've been to Italy 3 times (Rome, Florence, Venice, Tuscany, Santa Margarita Liguria) and am always struck by the beautiful gold worn. Yes, subtle color clothing and natural fibers and very noticable gold bracelets and earrings.

 

I've driven from Switzerland into Italy, but have not been to the french/italian alps........yet! :)

 

Jane

[Jane110]

As I said we are planning to spend a few days in France in 2007 before we start our cruise-I am a little concerned about this as I know the French are not too crazy about Americans either.........

 

I feel this is why most Americans want to go to Europe. They want to see their "roots". At least that is why I want to go.

 

Momofmeg,

 

Don't worry! Sure there are people who dislike others all over the world. You should see the rift between brazillians and argentineans in south america. LOL! Point being you can always travel someplace where some will love you and some won't.

 

That said, the french *do* stick to very formal codes of conduct and social interaction and consider anyone, from anywhere, rude if they don't as well. The french will practically slap a stranger for putting their hands on their laps at the dinner table. Buy the book "French or Foe" by Polly Platt to get some funny, enjoyable and very keen insight into the french mindset. I bought my copy for less than $5. on http://www.half.com

 

Oh dear......this has nothing to do w/ jeans in the dining room on a cruiseship. Forgive my disgressions!

 

A bientot!

Jane

[BlueHerons]

BlueHerons,

 

It's really pretty simple actually.

 

The most important factor is reality. It is an undisputable fact that Plus size women simply will not pay as much for their clothing as Missy sized or Petite sized women. Now WHY that is so does remain a mystery, but it is an industry fact. Companies like Ellen Tracy who make great career clothes and evening separates have tried, but the women won't buy. One of the best companies for Plus sizes is Marina Rinaldi - they make beautiful things. However, their business is a drop in the bucket compared to their Missy sized clothing line, which is called Max Mara. So with over 54% of the American population being over a size 16, wouldn't you think that the Rinaldi portion of their business would be a lot larger? Nope, it's not even close!

 

Next fact: Seven Jeans for the missy customer are sold in high end department stores and boutiques. Seven jeans for Lane Bryant are sold in a mass market store where people expect items to be within a certain price range. As a missy customer, you'd expect to see $200. jeans in Sak's, but you'd never expect to see a pair at that price in a store like The Limited, would you? Well Lane Bryant is like The Limited, not like Sak's.

 

As far as "cookie cutter" sizing. Well, I wouldn't really call it that. Plus sizing has a whole different scale and deals with a variety of figures. I think that stores like Lane Bryant take their most successful fits and then use them for fashion looks like the Seven Jean. I don't fault them for that - they're looking to build upon a successful silhouette and give their customer fashion.

 

Does that answer your question and make sense to you?

 

However, it'll be interesting to see what happens to the Seven's Missy business if/when the Lane Byrant Seven's business takes off. Anyone know the difference in price between the two? If the Lane Bryant Seven's are, for example 50-70% less pricey than the regular line, it'll kill their missy business as that customer is now being told that the jeans really aren't worth the price.

 

Jane

 

Thanks Jane. So basically Seven is licensing its name to Lane Bryant. The LB website has the jeans for sale around $90 a pair. About half off the regular priced line. It is a mystery as the why the larger lines do not sell better.

[Jane110]

Thanks Jane. So basically Seven is licensing its name to Lane Bryant. The LB website has the jeans for sale around $90 a pair. About half off the regular priced line. It is a mystery as the why the larger lines do not sell better.

 

Yes, I'm assuming that Seven is licensing their name to Lane Bryant. I honestly haven't read about it in the trade papers, so I can't say it's so with 100% certainty. But it *looks* like that kind of deal. If it is, it's called a direct to retail license and is different than a straight licensing arrangement.

 

At $90 a pair, yes, it's about half the price of regular missy Seven's, but probably a high price point for the avarage LB customer.

 

There are a few theory's as to why the Plus size woman won't spend as much on her clothes as her missy or petite counterpart. One of them is that this woman changes clothing sizes more than others and doesn't want to invest in pieces that won't fit her for a long period of time. No one knows for sure.

 

Jane

[momofmeg]

Momofmeg,

 

Don't worry! Sure there are people who dislike others all over the world. You should see the rift between brazillians and argentineans in south america. LOL! Point being you can always travel someplace where some will love you and some won't.

 

That said, the french *do* stick to very formal codes of conduct and social interaction and consider anyone, from anywhere, rude if they don't as well. The french will practically slap a stranger for putting their hands on their laps at the dinner table. Buy the book "French or Foe" by Polly Platt to get some funny, enjoyable and very keen insight into the french mindset. I bought my copy for less than $5. on http://www.half.com

 

Oh dear......this has nothing to do w/ jeans in the dining room on a cruiseship. Forgive my disgressions!

 

A bientot!

Jane

 

Well our time in Paris we will be "slumming" in comparsion. we want to do the Effiel Tower and tour Versailes, eat at side walk French cafes, that sort of thing. I do not think we will be doing any 5 star restuarants or operas, plays or anything like that. Now we do like stuff like that but as our time is limited in Paris(we are shooting for 3 days there-the cruise we will take afterward that leaves from Denmark is 16 days)

 

I doubt we will ever go back again-as I said we are just middle class folks so that is the things we want to do. The other things we can do right here in Atlanta and in New York. But we will never get a chance again to tour those things as they are only in Paris and close by to Paris.

 

For us this is a very big deal-but as I said we want to do something really special and that we always dreamed of doing for our 25th anniversary.

 

 

Jane I think I know why plus sized women do not spend as much on their clothes. At least this is how I feel-when I get over a size 10-nothing really looks that good on me anyway-so why spend the buck$ when nothing becomes me? Also there is that mindset of "when I lose weight I am going to splurge and buy a whole new wardrobe"- syndrome.

 

At least for me it is that way-I spend much more money on clothes when I am slimmer because I like the way I look in them-when I put on a few pounds-then it is not so important and I am content to look "decent".

 

Now if anyone could come up with the magic secret to make a size 20 woman look like a size 8-then these women would spend probally MORE money on clothes then their slim sisters.

[Jane110]

Well our time in Paris we will be "slumming" in comparsion. we want to do the Effiel Tower and tour Versailes, eat at side walk French cafes, that sort of thing. I do not think we will be doing any 5 star restuarants or operas, plays or anything like that. Now we do like stuff like that but as our time is limited in Paris(we are shooting for 3 days there-the cruise we will take afterward that leaves from Denmark is 16 days)

 

For us this is a very big deal-but as I said we want to do something really special and that we always dreamed of doing for our 25th anniversary.

 

MomofMeg,

 

You've noted a *huge* difference between the french and americans right off the bat! The fact that you would consider walking around Paris, seeing the Eiffel Tower and going to sidewalk cafe's "slumming" speaks volumes about the differences in cultural attitudes. :) The french would not consider than slumming, nor would I. Though they don't go the Eiffel Tower on a daily basis, but walking around, going to museums, cafe's and enjoying their city is what they consider daily life. They value it highly and feel they should be dressed stylishly for it. Not "dressed up" but dressed well.

 

I go to Paris about twice a year, but I speak very little french, so I never go to plays there, I wouldn't understand them. I don't like opera so don't go to that, and though I love ballet, I've only attended once while in Paris due to scheduling. I used to get to some 5 star restaurants, but with the weak dollar, I'm not spending $400. per person on dinner. The french bistro's and the vietnamese restaurants are just my style. I go to my favorite museums, stores, neighborhoods and spend time being with my friends just walking around and enjoying one of my favorite cities. I wouldn't consider it slumming.

 

On to your jean's and money spending habits of Plus size women theory.......

 

I agree with you 100%.

 

Jane

[Happy ks]

Well, I'm not quite plus sizes, but I know why I won't spend the big $$ on a pair of jeans. It's because I'm always anticipating a weight loss! I spend a fair amount, according to me, my work jeans are in the area of $60-75 a pair.

 

I think I'm too old to do the high heels with jeans, as I did it the first time around in the 70's during my Disco Diva days.

[lkb]

lol. me, i am not taking jeans for my trip in 2 weeks and i LOVE jeans. i just thought i would take coctail dresses for smart casual and capris for other times on the ship. they are light and comfortable and i am staying away from controversy. i figure i will be in bathing suits a good amount of the time. this gives me the opportunity to dress for the occassion for the week. it is only a week, and allows me extra room in the suitcase by not packing the heavier jeans. good luck to you in whatever you decide. you are the one that has to decide your comfort level with what you wear.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I'm not certain but I believe the "Seven" jeans at Lane Bryant are actually pronounced "Seven 7" jeans. That's how they get around any copyright infringement. From what I've seen the expensive, designer brand is copyrighted as "Seven for all Mankind" jeans, not "Seven" jeans. So that leaves the word "Seven" by itself available for others to use. I recall the Express and Expressman stores had a "Seven" brand of their own last year; might still. I don't believe either was related to the Seven for all Mankind brand but were playing of the popularity of that brand.

 

My wife has two pairs of Seven for all Mankind jeans....no brand hugs a tush like they do! :cool:

 

BobK/Orlando

SEA PRINCESS MAY 2005 yeah baby!

[BlueHerons]

I'm not certain but I believe the "Seven" jeans at Lane Bryant are actually pronounced "Seven 7" jeans. That's how they get around any copyright infringement. From what I've seen the expensive, designer brand is copyrighted as "Seven for all Mankind" jeans, not "Seven" jeans. So that leaves the word "Seven" by itself available for others to use. I recall the Express and Expressman stores had a "Seven" brand of their own last year; might still. I don't believe either was related to the Seven for all Mankind brand but were playing of the popularity of that brand.

 

My wife has two pairs of Seven for all Mankind jeans....no brand hugs a tush like they do! :cool:

 

BobK/Orlando

SEA PRINCESS MAY 2005 yeah baby!

 

They are the same company. The logo is exactly the same. If you want a pair of jeans that make your wife's a$$ look like a million bucks, go with Paper, Denim & Cloth. The original head designer for Seven For All Mankind left Seven and started PD&C. A more upscale jean in my opinion.

 

MomofMeg, I don't consider your trip slumming. I think that maybe you should get in the 'I am a visitor not a tourist' mindset rather than the slumming one? I am not criticizing and am jealous of your trip! It has been too long since I've been to Paris.

[Jane110]

I'm not certain but I believe the "Seven" jeans at Lane Bryant are actually pronounced "Seven 7" jeans. That's how they get around any copyright infringement. From what I've seen the expensive, designer brand is copyrighted as "Seven for all Mankind" jeans, not "Seven" jeans. So that leaves the word "Seven" by itself available for others to use. I recall the Express and Expressman stores had a "Seven" brand of their own last year; might still. I don't believe either was related to the Seven for all Mankind brand but were playing of the popularity of that brand.

 

 

Bob,

 

I'm in the fashion business and did apparel licensing for a few years. Seven 7 would be a rather clear trademark infringement of Seven for all Mankind. Since they're both jeans, that would be an absolute attempt to deceive the consumer which is clearly trademark infringement.

 

Must be the same company.

 

Jane

[momofmeg]

.

 

MomofMeg, I don't consider your trip slumming. I think that maybe you should get in the 'I am a visitor not a tourist' mindset rather than the slumming one? I am not criticizing and am jealous of your trip! It has been too long since I've been to Paris.

Don't be too jealous of me-this trip is still over 2 years away. We do not do things like this often.

No I don't actually think I will be "slumming" but the point I was trying to make is I won't be going to Paris for 5 star restuarants and shows-that I would be doing more of the middle class tourist things. I do not have the kind of money Jane and Cavier gal has- I am more of a grits gal-but for just a middle class gal I think I have done okay.

 

As I said I doubt I will ever get back to Paris and possibly even not Europe as we still want to do Hawaii and I really want to go on another Alaska cruise sometime. So after this trip it will be on to other dreams. Our goal is to do a really nice trip about once every 5 years (hopefully) or at least once every 10 years.

 

But anyway gals I promise to leave my jeans at home for this trip so I won't embarrass my fellow Americans-(LOL)-now guys I am being silly-you all know I RARELY wear jeans-as they are no longer a good "look" on me-so don't flame me-I was trying to inject a little humor.

 

In spite of the post who says white jeans are "80's" I still like them-but the pair I have is now too big-so unless I put on 15 or 20 pounds I will not be taking them on my next cruise. I did try on a couple of pair last week-but everything I found were the drop waist-hip hugger jeans(I guess "80's " jeans in the 2005 style) so I have not bought any.I would love to buy my hubby a pair of white jeans too but I don't see men's white jeans anymore-maybe that is who they are "80's" for- is men.

[Andipanda1]

Well, gee, as a almost 37 year old with a curvy size 14 to 16 figure, I'd have to disagree. One of my husband's favorite looks on me are when I'm wearing my jeans with fancy heels and an embellished top or sweater. I frankly think this look is better on someone with a few curves than the usual Hollywood lollipops with their skinny limbs, and oversized heads.

 

Oh, thank you for saying this--I'm a 44 year old woman who is a 16-18, and I'd have to disagree, too. And there are fashion magazines with curvy women--crack open this month's Glamour, for instance. All that matters is that you wear clothes that fit and flatter.

[Andipanda1]

denim jeans are too hot in the summer .......for me..........I would rather wear a different fabric.......no matter how light weight the denim is....but that's just my opinon and my preference........at least I do own a pair of jeans - my mother has never purchased a pair in her life and wouldn't be cought dead in them......and she's a itty bitty thing so it's not because she's over a size 8........:)

I really began to question designer denim fashion when the store my family owned started selling denim with holes already in it.......and at prices that would make a strong woman shopper swoon......lol........but they had no problem selling them......go figure

guess that's why there are so many options out there.......so many people with different ideas of what appeals to them.....

 

oh......and speaking of denim - those pics reminded me........I was really frustrated trying to find jeans for my daughter to wear to school......they can't make jeans that cover belly buttons anymore? there is a dress code at her school (thank goodness) and I had to really hunt to find jeans that wouldn't show more than was necessary unless she wore a long tunic with everything

 

Well, for the fall, "high waisted pants"-- another oh, so flattering look :rolleyes: are going to be back in, and not a moment too soon. I was walking around a college campus the other day, and I felt like I was at a plumbers convention. ;)

 

Anyway, all this garbage about denim being the new dressy look is just a marketing campaign to sell more jeans. I think they can be dressed up--and have done so myself--but I would never wear them in the dining room. I won't even take white jeans to the Carribean--too hot.

[happysinglemom]

In spite of the post who says white jeans are "80's" I still like them-but the pair I have is now too big-so unless I put on 15 or 20 pounds I will not be taking them on my next cruise. I did try on a couple of pair last week-but everything I found were the drop waist-hip hugger jeans(I guess "80's " jeans in the 2005 style) so I have not bought any.I would love to buy my hubby a pair of white jeans too but I don't see men's white jeans anymore-maybe that is who they are "80's" for- is men.

 

momofmeg - I don't wear the "hip-hugger" styles, but I do like a slightly dropped waist. I find the high waisted style of jeans to be both uncomfortable and unattractive. Most of the styles at the GAP are the slightly dropped waist - not at all a hip-hugger - you might like them. They have a wonderful white jean in the boot-cut stretch style. And white jeans on men...hmmmm...yeah - I think that would definitely fall into the "out of style" category for me. The only way a guy could get away with that these days is if he was filthy rich. They can wear anything they want. :-)

[happysinglemom]

If you want a pair of jeans that make your wife's a$$ look like a million bucks, go with Paper, Denim & Cloth.

 

So what is so special about these? I am always trying to find jeans that fit my butt - because I have NO a$$, and I'm willing to spend the money on jeans that flatter what little tush I have. :o I've never heard of them - where do you find them?