Cunard Captains

[eroller]

 

People are fearful that Carnival will take/is in the process of taking away many of the wonderful things that have made Cunard so wonderful.

 

My wife and I are booked for this coming January's QE2 westbound transatlantic crossing. I feel like the luckiest person on the earth !!

 

Tom

 

 

Well said Tom! I think you hit the nail on the head. From the perspective of a Cunard passenger, I think Princess is making some questionable decisions.

 

An example of a similar scenario is Royal Caribbean and Celebrity Cruises. Royal Caribbean combined too many synergies with Celebrity and it was a complete disaster. Of course it was all to save money although it was presented as a way to "enhance" passenger satisfaction. Now they have taken the lengthy and expensive steps to completely separate the lines again. So far it has been met with great success and Celebrity is better than ever. I don't want to see Princess/Cunard go through the same thing.

 

I do think we must give Princess a chance, and hopefully Cunard is just finding it's "niche" within the Princess organization. Of course there will be some teething pains. I do know that Princess knows how to run ships well .... but Princess ships. When I sail on Cunard I expect something different. If it becomes the same experience as Princess with just different decor then I will no longer see any appeal. That is my fear.

 

Princess has something to prove to it's parent company Carnival. They want to show that they can operate Cunard and in a very profitable manner. I just hope they don't go too far in trying to show off their business savvy to Mickey and his cronies.

 

Ernie

[Transatlantic Tom]

Tom

 

I couldn't have said it better. A great post!!

 

Hope you have a wonderful 2006 crossing - what a great way to begin the New Year.......

 

Thank you, Sea-Sea !! I guess that I can tell my mother, all these years later, that my English degree paid off after all !!!!

 

Also, thanks for the bon voyage wishes. We are indeed looking forward to seeing friends in England in late Dec/early Jan and then sailing home aboard QE2.

 

Tom

[rjms74]

Hello,

 

Re the recent news about the transfer of both Captains Wright & McNaught to other ships in the Princess fleet, I checked this week about who would be the Captain of QE2 on my forthcoming cruise in early Jul'05 and they said Captain Ian McNaught - so perhaps they are not going anywhere just yet?

 

Regards,

 

 

RJMS74

[Transatlantic Tom]

Well said Tom! I think you hit the nail on the head. From the perspective of a Cunard passenger, I think Princess is making some questionable decisions.

 

An example of a similar scenario is Royal Caribbean and Celebrity Cruises. Royal Caribbean combined too many synergies with Celebrity and it was a complete disaster. Of course it was all to save money although it was presented as a way to "enhance" passenger satisfaction. Now they have taken the lengthy and expensive steps to completely separate the lines again. So far it has been met with great success and Celebrity is better than ever. I don't want to see Princess/Cunard go through the same thing.

 

I do think we must give Princess a chance, and hopefully Cunard is just finding it's "niche" within the Princess organization. Of course there will be some teething pains. I do know that Princess knows how to run ships well .... but Princess ships. When I sail on Cunard I expect something different. If it becomes the same experience as Princess with just different decor then I will no longer see any appeal. That is my fear.

 

Princess has something to prove to it's parent company Carnival. They want to show that they can operate Cunard and in a very profitable manner. I just hope they don't go too far in trying to show off their business savvy to Mickey and his cronies.

 

Ernie

 

Thank you, too, Ernie !!

 

I think you put it very well yourself. I suspect (& hope) that in the long run the Carnival Corp would realize that it is in their best interest to maintain a unique character and identity with their different subsidiaries...and NOT try to make them all essentially the same. It just doesn't and wouldn't make sense.

 

I fear in the short run, however, there might be some of the "big shot" mentality going on (i.e. "...Cunard is our's now, we're the bosses, we know better than anyone else, and that's how it's going to be...". A little humility, and a little respect will go a long way.

 

I think Carnival Corp, with all of their power and money, could very successfully market the classic Cunard quite well. I think that the ads they've been running in The New Yorker have been quite good for QM2's transatlantic crossings.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed !!

 

Best Wishes.

 

Tom

[Richard Schmidt]

I agree with most of what you have stated but I still think it highly presumptuous to assume that a human being...even if that being is the Captain of 'a ship like no other', might not want a change of venue.

It is a possibility and many don't want to look at it because of the feeling of Cunard superiority.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that just because YOU wouldn't switch lines, does not mean that the man who has Captained this amazing ship after many years isn't ready for a change. Of course I don't know this for sure, but to not look at the possibilities is rather small minded.

One thing I do know is that I don't believe for one minute the Captain of the QE2 qould be as blatantly disresectful of any Captain from any ship as what I have seen here. There is a pride among these fine men and a brotherhood that would not tolerate all these demeaning posts. I really don't think they'd think too highly of the posters here who belittle their comrades.

Until you've spoken to these 'switched' captains yourself, please don't assume anything.

 

I have spoken to one of the "switched" Captains. He loved his command, and her place in history, and the prospect of being removed to shepherd a ferry-hulled platform for Marimba bands was, to say the least, "devastating". Stop being an apologist for Princess, and start thinking logically. If you owned a Bentley, and someone came and said "You are now driving a GMC Suburban. Ain't she great? Cup holders an' everthin'! Wanna see the extra gas cans strapped to the back?" How would you feel? Get real.

Richard

[guernseyguy]

Get real. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, Stephen.

 

Richard,

 

Personal invective may be appropriate for a Prosecutor, but I would suggest it is not on these boards, least of all, one hopes, the Cunard board.

 

Peter

[Richard Schmidt]

Richard,

 

Personal invective may be appropriate for a Prosecutor, but I would suggest it is not on these boards, least of all, one hopes, the Cunard board.

 

Peter

 

Hi Peter,

We are both up way too late, my friend. Actually, personal invective is not the tool of a prosecutor, nor is it my intention to use such here. What you are hearing- reading, actually- is the understandable frustration I share with many others at the actions of Carnival/Princess. Had Cunard remained a separate entity these matters would be moot. No one, including me, would give a damn about booze-cruises to Mexico or ships shaped like hotels or star-cruisers, because we would have one - one - ship that recalled for us the days of trans-Atlantic travel in a more elegant era. That one ship would be enough to keep me and my kind quiet for the rest of our lives.

Instead, those who appreciate traditional ocean liners find themselves, and the last of the ships they love, hostage to people who built their fortunes on ocean-going platforms designed for an entirely different kind of "travel". In a few years there will be nothing more to argue about. The remaining ships will all have that homogenous "hotel" appearance, and one will be hard pressed to describe any significant differnece between this line owned by Carnival and that line (also owned by Carnival.)

I have no doubt you love ocean travel. Why else would you be on these boards? Try to understand those of us who see an era fading before our eyes, and who feel compelled to rage against the short-sightedness of the forces hastening that end.

 

Richard

[guernseyguy]

Try to understand those of us who feel compelled to rage against the short-sightedness of the forces hastening that end.

Richard

 

Richard,

 

You are welcome to rage against Carnival et al, my point was that you are also raging against other posters who do not share your point of view - not demonstrating the respect for others one would generally associate with Cunard passengers.

 

Peter

[PRINSENDAM]

Richard,

 

I'm curious, how many times have you crossed in QE2 or sailed in other Cunard ships?

 

Have you ever sailed on a Princess ship?

 

Stephen

[Transatlantic Tom]

Richard,

 

I'm curious, how many times have you crossed in QE2 or sailed in other Cunard ships?

 

Have you ever sailed on a Princess ship?

 

Stephen

 

Let's be careful here, please. With regard to the issue of numbers of times crossing aboard QE2 etc...... I can just see someone suggesting that the value of one's opinion is directly related to (a) the date of one's first voyage, and (b) the total number of crossings made.

 

I'd hate to see someone say something like: "...well, I first sailed on Queen Mary" back in '52, and have crossed 27 times in my lifetime... so I think I know better than you...".

 

Tom

[guernseyguy]

Let's be careful here, please. With regard to the issue of numbers of times crossing aboard QE2 etc

 

Tom,

 

I certainly agree that we are all entitled to our opinions, and also to have them treated with respect. However, when posters start asserting that things were 'so much better in the old days' I do think it not unreasonable to enquire which old days are being cited. These boards are for the sharing of opinions - and even more valuably, experience.

 

Peter

[Transatlantic Tom]

Peter:

 

On a personal level, I can add something to this "now vs.the good old days" type of debate.

 

When my wife and I sailed EB aboard QE2 in August 2003, I hadn't been aboard her since 1981. IMHO, I felt that the service aboard QE2 in 2003 -in my cabin, in the lounges, in the restaurant, etc.- was much better than it had been in 1981. Go figure as we say here !!

 

(For context, I was in "Transatlantic Class" way-back-when, and in recent years in M grade cabin/Mauretania Restaurant).

 

Tom:)

[guernseyguy]

On a personal level, I can add something to this "now vs.the good old days" type of debate.IMHO, I felt that the service aboard QE2 in 2003 -in my cabin, in the lounges, in the restaurant, etc.- was much better than it had been in 1981. Tom:)

 

Tom,

 

Your experience would be entirely consistent with mine (though over a much shorter time frame). Not for nothing was the old Mauretania 'Tables of the World' nicknamed 'Stables of the World'.....

 

With, I'm sure, one or two well based exceptions, the 'good old days' are a nostalgic collective fantasy.

 

Peter

[cruisin'fool2]

The following additional information about the shoddy manner in which the removals were handled by Princess/Cunard Management was posted last week on Cruise Talk:

 

May 11: It has been widely reported in maritime circles that Princess management has been shaking up personnel recently on the two Cunard Queens.

 

 

Popular Captains Paul Wright of the QM2 and Ian McNaught of the QE2, along with Chief Engineer Brian Waitling of the QM2, were recently 'seconded' to Princess Cruises in a sudden move that is drawing raised eyebrows and possible petitions to CEO Peter Ratcliffe from former passengers and reportedly causing discontent amongst the shipboard crew.

 

In addition, both Staff Captains on the QM2 and one of the Staff Captains on QE2 are about to or have already been moved to Princess. Reports onboard indicate that neither the Captain nor Chief Engineer were allowed to notify the crew of the impending change until the day before they signed off the ship.

 

All the above officers had each served with Cunard for decades and represent a great loss of the heritage and tradition that passengers have come to expect from Cunard.

 

The Hotel Department has similary been affected, with longtime Hotel Manager Jacqui Hodgon having been transferred to Princess Cruises last October and only one remaining Cunard Hotel officer with three stripes or more left on QUEEN MARY 2. Source: Maritime Matters

 

Again, if you wish to express your opinion to Peter Ratcliffe about these changes, you can email him at pratcliffe@princesscruises.com

[Richard Schmidt]

The fact is, QE2 is unlike any other ship, and so it should be. Any Captain of QE2 would likely prefer to stay Captain of QE2, unless possibly they had been Captain for many many years, but even then. Comparing QE2 to any ordinary cruise line is not realistic. It's not snobbery, just fact. I highly doubt any Captain of QE2 would be happy switching to some Princess cruise ship, or that they would consider it anything but a huge step down. Sorry.

 

Some like to think that everything should be exactly the same in life, but in reality there are differences. If all wines were the same, or all food were of the same quality, there would be no Cordon Bleu chefs, only fast food joints.

 

You are correct, Molly. I am surprised by those who suggest that a transfer from a Cunard Queen to a Princess ship would be acceptable to the Captains involved. I must assume that these 'posters' have not experienced, and/or do not appreciate, the nature of a trans-Atlantic passage, and the exceptional vessels who make that journey.

 

I have a friend who was a British Air Captain of a Concorde jet. He grieved tremendously when Concorde was retired. The fact that he was then given command of a 747 did nothing to diminish his disappointment, for he knew he was trading a Maserati for a bus. The same applies to these mindless changes at Cunard. As far as I am concerned, Ian McNaught was the last Captain of the last real ocean liner in the world.

Richard

[guernseyguy]

I must assume that these 'posters' have not experienced, and/or do not appreciate, the nature of a trans-Atlantic passage, and the exceptional vessels who make that journey.

 

Richard,

 

Really? Do let us know how many trans-Atlantic crossings you have made, on which ships and which lines. For your information, I list the 7 crossings I have made on 5 different ships and 3 different lines......

[Richard Schmidt]

Richard,

 

Really? Do let us know how many trans-Atlantic crossings you have made, on which ships and which lines. For your information, I list the 7 crossings I have made on 5 different ships and 3 different lines......

 

Why the hostility, Peter? To answer your question, I have only 3 crossings, all on QE 2. Though I have also been on RCL and Princess booze cruises, only the crossings come to mind when I think of being at sea. I do not mean to make anything on this board personal, but clearly I have somehow hit a nerve with you. Mea maxima culpa.

 

Richard

[Richard Schmidt]

Richard,

 

Really? Do let us know how many trans-Atlantic crossings you have made, on which ships and which lines. For your information, I list the 7 crossings I have made on 5 different ships and 3 different lines......

 

P.S. Congratulations on the breadth of your experience of trans-Atlantic crossings. Sadly, our kids will know little of this as their options dwindle to a single ship modeled on the latest of Las Vegas hotels.

[guernseyguy]

Why the hostility, Peter?

 

Richard, twas not I imputing the motives or experience of other posters....

 

I have only 3 crossings, all on QE 2.

 

Congratulations - thats three more than most, and all on probably the best ship to do it on....the Caronia was different, and also a great sea boat, the Brilliance elegant, but untested by any weather, the Golden Princess a tub, shuddering in the mildest swell...Why not try the QM2 next....or are you waiting until you can dock in Brooklyn....;)

 

I do not mean to make anything on this board personal.

 

Jolly good - let civility reign!

 

Peter

[MollyBrown]

You are correct, Molly. I am surprised by those who suggest that a transfer from a Cunard Queen to a Princess ship would be acceptable to the Captains involved. I must assume that these 'posters' have not experienced, and/or do not appreciate, the nature of a trans-Atlantic passage, and the exceptional vessels who make that journey.

 

I have a friend who was a British Air Captain of a Concorde jet. He grieved tremendously when Concorde was retired. The fact that he was then given command of a 747 did nothing to diminish his disappointment, for he knew he was trading a Maserati for a bus. The same applies to these mindless changes at Cunard. As far as I am concerned, Ian McNaught was the last Captain of the last real ocean liner in the world.

Richard

 

Thank you. Amen.

[wotec]

Comparing QE2 to a Princess ship? My first crossing was June 2003 on QE2, EB. I loved every moment of being aboard "The Legend". The theme was Broadway & West End Musicals. Every day and night on QE2 was magical.

 

We disembarked and flew to Copenhagen to meet a Princess ship to visit ports in the Baltic Sea. We primarily wanted to get a taste of St. Petersburg. We had a suite with balcony on Princess. We had a Q3 on QE2.

 

Night and day differences. I can't tell you anything about our stateroom, dining room, cabin steward, waiter, hotel manager, cruise staff, officers etc on Princess. I can't even remember the name of the ship. Everything was very "simple" and "ordinary". The ship simply got us from one port to the next so we could tour.

 

I could write a book on the QE2 experiences. So for those of you who think there is no difference, think again.

[guernseyguy]

So for those of you who think there is no difference, think again.

 

Wotec,

 

I have sailed as a passenger on both Cunard and Princess and would agree that they are very different (and very differently priced) products. I much prefer Cunard.

 

However, to assert, as many have on this board, that the jobs of a Princess or a Cunard Captain is so very radically different is asking the evidence to bear more weight than it is capable of supporting, to borrow a phrase.

 

Peter

[cruisin'fool2]

Wotec,

 

I have sailed as a passenger on both Cunard and Princess and would agree that they are very different (and very differently priced) products. I much prefer Cunard.

 

However, to assert, as many have on this board, that the jobs of a Princess or a Cunard Captain is so very radically different is asking the evidence to bear more weight than it is capable of supporting, to borrow a phrase.

 

Peter

 

Peter,

 

There may not be a radical difference between the actual duties of a Princess and Cunard Captain, but there is certainly a difference in prestige. And, for Cunard/Princess management to unceremoniously remove these two Captains -- both long-time Cunard employees -- in the manner they did, says a lot about the measure of respect (or rather, lack of it) that they have for the tradition and heritage of the Cunard line.

 

Mike

[wotec]

As much as I love being on the sea and aboard QE2, I'm a "white knuckle" sailor when the weather gets bad. In 2004 we were with Capt. McNaught during 3 Force 9 storms within 10 days, 2 of them crossing the N. Atlantic at the end of the World Cruise (QM2 was a few days ahead of us). It was reassuring to me to know that we had a Captain in charge that knew "the good, the bad, the ugly" about his vessel and that he was backed up by Senior Officers who also had been on board QE2 for many years. I would NOT be pleased to be in similiar weather situations in a 36 year old ocean liner with a captain and senior officers who had little or no experience on board this unique & older vessel. Mr. Ratcliffe and the other bean counters bring a captain and senior officers from Princess...certainly they are legally "qualified" to operate QE2... but they do not offer passengers and crew experience in operating a ship such as QE2. The "other" topic of the legend and aura of the QE2 is an emotional subject for all of us. But the subject of who can get us there safest is one not to be ignored by those of us contemplating future travel on her.

[guernseyguy]

Peter' date='

 

There may not be a radical difference between the actual duties of a Princess and Cunard Captain, but there is certainly a difference in prestige. And, for Cunard/Princess management to unceremoniously remove these two Captains -- both long-time Cunard employees -- in the manner they did, says a lot about the measure of respect (or rather, lack of it) that they have for the tradition and heritage of the Cunard line.

 

Mike[/quote']

 

Mike,

 

There certainly is a perceived difference among many posters on this board. Whether this difference is true in Princess/Cunard, among Captains, or in the Captain's job market, is so far un-demonstrated. One of the posters to this board, a Captain, argues not.

 

I would certainly agree that Cunard/Princess appear to have mis-handled this. I started this whole ball rolling after chatting to a QM2 officer at the World Club cocktail party on the QM2, and they certainly felt it had been poorly communicated. Why it was poorly communicated I do not (nor I suspect, does anyone else on this board) know. It may simply have been seen as plain 'good news' in need of no elaboration - more job opportunities across a wider fleet, rather than 'dead man's shoes' in a tiny one.

 

As to the motivation behind this poor communication - deliberate denigration of Cunard 'heritage', an attempt to 'shake up' an insular and complacent culture or simple 'c**k up', I generally favour the latter.

 

Peter