Why We Left NCL?

[IMWord]

:) You have assumed facts not in evidence. I am not a butt-sucker.

Second-hand smoke is not the killer that you are claiming. I'm in more danger from the stench emanating from a Scentsy pot.

 

Sorry, but I don't believe I claimed you were a smoker or a butt-sucker as you call it and apologize if that is how it came across. I'm not the one who did the research and studies on the well documented danger of second hand smoke either. Also not really sure how to take your "2nd hand smoke is not the killer you are claiming" comment other than you don't believe 2nd hand smoke is a real health hazard. If that is your belief, so be it.

[luddite]

Sorry, but I don't believe I claimed you were a smoker or a butt-sucker as you call it and apologize if that is how it came across. I'm not the one who did the research and studies on the well documented danger of second hand smoke either. Also not really sure how to take your "2nd hand smoke is not the killer you are claiming" comment other than you don't believe 2nd hand smoke is a real health hazard. If that is your belief, so be it.

 

Well, I read that you thought I was a smoker.

Certainly, it isn't good for you to breathe second-hand smoke. The studies claiming all of the horrible consequences to breathing it are slam full of bad science. Do I prefer to not be around smoke? Sure. Do I let it ruin my lefe? Naw. Life is full of decisions. If something is a problem, let the approptiate people know and vote with your feet. easy peasy.

[che5904]

I was thinking about this as well as it would be a possible solution for non-smokers. The question I have would be whether or not NCL would allow you to take a fan into your cabin (can't see why not) and an extension cord (may consider this a hazard?).

 

NCL will not allow anything with a heat element such as coffee maker, iron etc. I've never heard of anyone on NCL that has an electric fan taken away. But since there is usually only one plug in the room, way on the other side. Might I suggest a battery operated one would probably be your best option. And yes there is one non-smoker on these boards that say they bring one with them and never have an issue with smoke on their balcony.

[mark290]

The problem with that is the expectation continues to be that the smokers give, and give, and give some more. A few years ago I could smoke in my cabin, now I have spend a great deal more to get a balcony cabin if I want to smoke - smokers gave. A few years ago I could smoke on the pool deck, now I can only smoke on one side of one open deck - smokers gave. There are plenty of other examples of different areas on different ships and different lines where smoking used to be allowed but is not more and most smokers will simply comply without complaint. The problem is some will not be happy until the every ship on every line is entirely non-smoking. That is not give and take. That is take and take.

 

You, the smoker, have not given anything. These areas have been taken from you. It sounds like you think you are making several rational arguments in favor of what you believe. I personally don't think any of your arguments are logical. Have you ever stopped to think why the cruise lines have taken these places to smoke from you and why most of the rest (balconies the soonest) will be taken in a relatively short time ?

[che5904]

The problem with that is the expectation continues to be that the smokers give, and give, and give some more. A few years ago I could smoke in my cabin, now I have spend a great deal more to get a balcony cabin if I want to smoke - smokers gave. A few years ago I could smoke on the pool deck, now I can only smoke on one side of one open deck - smokers gave. There are plenty of other examples of different areas on different ships and different lines where smoking used to be allowed but is not more and most smokers will simply comply without complaint. The problem is some will not be happy until the every ship on every line is entirely non-smoking. That is not give and take. That is take and take.

 

Agreed which is part of the reason that I spend time on these smoking threads.

 

Truth be known I hate these threads and feel they bring out the worst on both sides of the fence. But for years the pro-no-smokers and non-smoking extremists have been screaming loud and clear. While smokers accepted it all and tried to live within smaller and smaller boundaries.

 

Companies and Governments hear from the above because they are the ones that are complaining. For example before the new no smoking in cabin policy at the beginning of this year. NCL heard from the ones pushing for no smoking in the cabins, they did not hear from the smokers. Why would they the smokers were content if they had their cabins and the casino as inside venues if it was too cold to stand outside or they didn't want to go up 4 floors each time they wanted a smoke. Even if we had been banished from all other inside venues.

 

So I decided a few years ago that I would no longer sit quiet and keep accepting being pushed into a corner without having a voice to say enough is enough leave us alone.

 

I don't expect either side to understand the other or ever agree with the other. I am not trying to change anyone's mind on what they believe or think is to be the truth or real. But I do want NCL to know that we do exist and that we do care if they take anything else away from us. We now have approx. 4% left of an entire ship we can be in and I personally would like to keep that 4%.

[Mississippian]

I can't remember which airport it was, but years ago some airport had glassed-in smoking rooms. The smokers would prop open the door with their briefcases because they couldn't stand the smoke.

[che5904]

I can't remember which airport it was, but years ago some airport had glassed-in smoking rooms. The smokers would prop open the door with their briefcases because they couldn't stand the smoke.

 

Lots of airports had that, Vegas and Chicago are 2 off of the top of my head I can think of. It actually hasn't been that many years that Vegas had one and some airports still do have, at least as of last February. Never been in any that the door was propped open. Although I did laugh when I went in them and stated, I didn't even need to light up. Very big flaw in the ventilating systems and the same situation as now where they make the spot smaller and smaller for the smoker and then wonder why that area is so congested with smoke.

 

If you have ever stood in someplace like a city bus station or an area of town that have numerous factories you will get the same effect. But if you spread them out you will find it isn't near as overpowering.

[coffeebean]

You are sort of contradicting yourself. If your fear is that NCL will absorb more smokers then the ones who need/want the cabin areas no smoking may not be the majority (the way you think it is now).

Yes, I see your point. With more smokers coming to NCL, the balconies will be occupied with more smokers than ever before but I honestly don't think smokers will ever outnumber non smokers.

[mark290]

Agreed which is part of the reason that I spend time on these smoking threads.

 

Truth be known I hate these threads and feel they bring out the worst on both sides of the fence. But for years the pro-no-smokers and non-smoking extremists have been screaming loud and clear. While smokers accepted it all and tried to live within smaller and smaller boundaries.

 

Companies and Governments hear from the above because they are the ones that are complaining. For example before the new no smoking in cabin policy at the beginning of this year. NCL heard from the ones pushing for no smoking in the cabins, they did not hear from the smokers. Why would they the smokers were content if they had their cabins and the casino as inside venues if it was too cold to stand outside or they didn't want to go up 4 floors each time they wanted a smoke. Even if we had been banished from all other inside venues.

 

So I decided a few years ago that I would no longer sit quiet and keep accepting being pushed into a corner without having a voice to say enough is enough leave us alone.

 

I don't expect either side to understand the other or ever agree with the other. I am not trying to change anyone's mind on what they believe or think is to be the truth or real. But I do want NCL to know that we do exist and that we do care if they take anything else away from us. We now have approx. 4% left of an entire ship we can be in and I personally would like to keep that 4%.

 

You picked the wrong issue to exercise your voice. Your efforts have not been very effective but that is not your fault. You just picked a losing battle but I admire your determination.

[che5904]

Yes, I see your point. With more smokers coming to NCL, the balconies will be occupied with more smokers than ever before but I honestly don't think smokers will ever outnumber non smokers.

 

Well I don't stand a lot on statistics. I've been too involved in number crunching and know how stacked they can be. And no I won't say that the smokers will outnumber non-smokers. Then again I wouldn't say they wouldn't either since really I haven't given that much thought.

 

Unfortunately for the non-smokers that are tolerant and try to live all as human beings and get along. This probably won't be good news to them. Because the push of the loud voices have convinced other cruiselines to stop smoking on balconies. So instead of being spread out on different cruiselines or inside their own private cabins not bothering a soul except themselves, they have crunched us all on balconies or in tiny bad boy/girl corners of the ship. As pointed out above making the smoke more confined and dense in certain areas.

 

Now in thinking of people who appear to bathe in their scented products. I would much rather walk by one person every 30 or 40 feet than have to walk by a crowd of them. Much easier to tolerate in little doses IMO. But thats just me, perhaps pro-no-smokers or non-smoking extremists would prefer the large cloud of smoke instead of just an individual now and then.

[che5904]

You picked the wrong issue to exercise your voice. Your efforts have not been very effective but that is not your fault. You just picked a losing battle but I admire your determination.

 

You are more than welcome to your own opinion on whether my issue I chose to voice was right or wrong.

 

However, if you do get your wish that the balconies are taken away soon as you have stated. Then that will silence me here, as I will not have any reason to be on a cruise forum. But until that time, I will let NCL know I exist and care what they do.

[onlysister]

This is the mentality that would make me chain smoke just to annoy my neighbor as opposed to being considerate of them.

 

My money is the same color green as everyone elses and I spent a lot more of it to have the luxury of sitting on my balcony in peace to have a smoke. I do not try to smoke in public areas where is it not allowed nor do I intentionally smoke to irritate anyone.

 

Quite frankly, there are those who have no idea that dousing themselves in perfume or cologne can be downright nauseating to those around them - shall I send poop smell their way when they sit at a nearby table and ruin my dinner?

 

And what about the loud oboxious drunks? They too ruin a portion of my vacation - can we put all of them on a drunks only ship?

 

While we are at it let's get an unaccompanied brat ship up and running too.

 

Perhaps one for late night loud talkers/door slammers as well.

 

My point? I doubt there is anyone posting here that isn't guilty of something that inconveniences/annoys another cruiser. You need to realize you are in what essentially equates to a small city and not everyone is there to please you. Your vacation is what you make of it. Try to think about that smoke you don't like the next time your are spraying your perfume/cologne before dinner. ;)

 

Well said indeed. Something bothers everyone, but most don't comment on it because they will let others live and let live. Perfume/cologne really bothers me but I don't sit there and cough and fan myself and give the evil eye to that person because that is really childish behavior. Over indulging in alcohol is a big problem everywhere. People act stupid, they do things that are dangerous to themselves and others. I have yet to hear of someone falling off a cruise ship due to smoking. Oh, and the kids running around unsupervised....let's not get started on that.

 

So, if you are stuck next to a chainsmoking chimney, perhaps if you let that person know it bothers you they would probably be happy to be made aware of it and come to a compromise. By compromise, that means smoke time for them and non-smoke time for you.

[coffeebean]

I smoked for 35 years and truly enjoyed it. The reason I quit smoking was not for health reasons (how foolish was that?). I was tired of always having to go somewhere else to smoke. I was tired of feeling like a second hand citizen. I was tired of folks not wanting to be near me because of the cigarette smoke odor on my clothes and in my hair. I was tired of feeling like I always wanted a cigarette when it was forbidden to smoke. I was tired of listening to my husband bitch about my smoking. I was tired of the addiction taking over my life and I wanted to be free of it.

 

When I gave up that awful habit, I counted the minutes, then the hours, then the days which turned into weeks. It has been 7 years now and I don't know how many hours, days, weeks and months. All I know is I'm free of a miserable addiction and I did it all by myself, the cold turkey method. I never thought I would ever enjoy a cup of coffee without a cigarette. How wrong I was.

[mark290]

You are more than welcome to your own opinion on whether my issue I chose to voice was right or wrong.

 

However, if you do get your wish that the balconies are taken away soon as you have stated. Then that will silence me here, as I will not have any reason to be on a cruise forum. But until that time, I will let NCL know I exist and care what they do.

 

I didn't mean it to sound as if I found your issue right or wrong. Although now that you mention it I do feel what you believe are smokers rights are in fact wrong and violate others rights. I worded it poorly. What I meant was you picked a loser of a battle. You can't win.

 

I also did not state a ban on balcony smoking was my wish. I do think it is quite obvious that a ban on smoking on balconies will happen relatively soon. Again, since you bring it up a ban on balcony smoking would please me.

 

Princess, a cruise line that must have an older demographic than NCL or Carnival or RCI banning balcony smoking already ? Who would have predicted that timing ? Based on no stats what so ever, I am guessing the older demographic has more smokers and yet they ban smoking. My money would have been on RCI before Princess.

[mark290]

I smoked for 35 years and truly enjoyed it. The reason I quit smoking was not for health reasons (how foolish was that?). I was tired of always having to go somewhere else to smoke. I was tired of feeling like a second hand citizen. I was tired of folks not wanting to be near me because of the cigarette smoke odor on my clothes and in my hair. I was tired of feeling like I always wanted a cigarette when it was forbidden to smoke. I was tired of listening to my husband bitch about my smoking. I was tired of the addiction taking over my life and I wanted to be free of it.

 

When I gave up that awful habit, I counted the minutes, then the hours, then the days which turned into weeks. It has been 7 years now and I don't know how many hours, days, weeks and months. All I know is I'm free of a miserable addiction and I did it all by myself, the cold turkey method. I never thought I would ever enjoy a cup of coffee without a cigarette. How wrong I was.

 

I admire your accomplishment. I think it also shows there are many reasons second hand smoke bothers people. They are not all health related. The stuff stinks, it doesn't stay in one area and it sticks to stuff.

[che5904]

I smoked for 35 years and truly enjoyed it. The reason I quit smoking was not for health reasons (how foolish was that?). I was tired of always having to go somewhere else to smoke. I was tired of feeling like a second hand citizen. I was tired of folks not wanting to be near me because of the cigarette smoke odor on my clothes and in my hair. I was tired of feeling like I always wanted a cigarette when it was forbidden to smoke. I was tired of listening to my husband bitch about my smoking. .

 

Congratulations on quitting. But it's too bad you appeared in post 181 to be one of those people that made you feel that way.

[mark290]

Congratulations on quitting. But it's too bad you appeared in post 181 to be one of those people that made you feel that way.

 

It's not too bad, it's great. You not only did a great thing for you and your family you did something that might contribute to somebody else doing something great for themselves and their family. Making people feel like they want to quit smoking and possibly act on it is a public service.

[Diamond60]

I want a smokers only ship.

 

I agree!!!! We (smokers) need our own ship. Tired of the constant complaints.

[coffeebean]

Congratulations on quitting. But it's too bad you appeared in post 181 to be one of those people that made you feel that way.

Thanks for the congrats. I had to go back to post 181 to see what it was that I had said. BTW...how in the world did you remember my post from back then and which one it was???

 

Anyway...I'm trying to understand your comment above but I'm not getting it.

[coffeebean]

It's not too bad, it's great. You not only did a great thing for you and your family you did something that might contribute to somebody else doing something great for themselves and their family. Making people feel like they want to quit smoking and possibly act on it is a public service.

I see you understood what I still haven't been able to grasp. Thank you for your kind words.

 

I did say I quit cold turkey but I did have some help. I decided to go the internet route and find help there. I searched, "smoking cessation" and found this website. If it weren't for the information and encouragement I found here, I don't think I could have done it by myself...

 

http://quitsmoking.about.com/

[BaseballMomof4]

You, the smoker, have not given anything. These areas have been taken from you. It sounds like you think you are making several rational arguments in favor of what you believe. I personally don't think any of your arguments are logical. Have you ever stopped to think why the cruise lines have taken these places to smoke from you and why most of the rest (balconies the soonest) will be taken in a relatively short time ?

 

You seem to be taking the liberty of speaking for the cruise line here indicating that the liberty to smoke in the outdoors will be taken away "soonest". Do you have some sort of insider knowledge?

 

I don't know what you find "illogical" here either. There are 2 main arguments against smoking here. 1) That it is unpleasant/annoying and 2) That it is unhealthy. I am simply speaking to each of those arguments.

 

Additionally, I think you are mistaking the lack of rabid internet message board arguing on behalf of smokers as some sort of "non-smoker voices being heard and we shall overcome" type of movement. The cruise lines are most certainly aware of how much money they will lose if they make an entire ship non-smoking. Even if only 10% of the cruising public were smokers and decided to take their money elsewhere that would be a huge hit on the industry.

[e2011]

But what you are suggesting is really no different than what is in effect now. NCL ships allow smoking on balconies. That way if a non-smoker books a balcony they know the risks. If you don't want smoke around you, you could book a non-balcony room.

 

I think you missed the point. I am talking about balcony rooms. My system would accommodate everyone. Non -smokers could have a balcony with no fear of smoke at the front and smokers could have a smoking balcony at the back. Its a win-win.

[Kitt Lady]

I usually stay away from the Smoker vs non-smoker threads. But....

 

I have chosen the lines that I do for the smoking policy first, then itinerary. We (smoker and non-smokers) vote with our money. There are cruise lines that cater to one or the other, let the chips fall where they may…

 

I vote with my money – no sense in arguing it.

[BaseballMomof4]

I usually stay away from the Smoker vs non-smoker threads. But....

 

I have chosen the lines that I do for the smoking policy first, then itinerary. We (smoker and non-smokers) vote with our money. There are cruise lines that cater to one or the other, let the chips fall where they may…

 

I vote with my money – no sense in arguing it.

 

Well said.

[che5904]

I think you missed the point. I am talking about balcony rooms. My system would accommodate everyone. Non -smokers could have a balcony with no fear of smoke at the front and smokers could have a smoking balcony at the back. Its a win-win.

 

I re-explained the meaning of this post in post #161.

 

Your post came across as "I want prisons, but no prison in my backyard". You did suggest that the back of the ship be used for smoking cabins. A lot of non-smokers love the aft cabins, you basically said if NCL made those the smoking cabins any non-smoker that wanted one would just have to suck it up (know the risks). But since obviously those back were not important to you it appeared that you felt NCL should make the smoking cabins there.

 

My point was that if you are going to have that attitude then NCL already offers that with my example. It is not a win/win, as much as you would like to think it is. And without going back throught the posts, I believe you mentioned this idea back at the beginning of the thread and was shot down, not by a smoker but by a non-smoker who loves her balcony in the aft. She deals with balconies that are around her with smokers, but I would assume she would hope not to have smokers in every balcony that surrounds her. The closer you group the smokers in a tiny corner the more intense the smoke will be.