An Esoteric Question

[Classiccruiser777]

Since Cunard's ships are registered in Bermuda does the British government still have the authority to requisition these ships during times of war? Also, do the officers have an obligation to serve aboard any of the ships if their ship was requisitioned?

[Austcruiser84]

Since Cunard's ships are registered in Bermuda does the British government still have the authority to requisition these ships during times of war? Also, do the officers have an obligation to serve aboard any of the ships if their ship was requisitioned?

 

They wouldn't be needed in a time of war these days. The US were able to put 130,000 soldiers in Iraq without trouble and the UK more than 10,000. No cruise ships / liners necessary.

 

Times have changed. But if really needed, governments can impound vessels by law and use them like they did to the German liners in WW1.

[room010]

QE2 was called up as a troop ship during the Falklands War in 1982.

[canny_cruiser]

We'll need them when it all kicks off down there again. That Kirchner woman is chomping at the bit.

[Cruachan]

We'll need them when it all kicks off down there again. That Kirchner woman is chomping at the bit.

 

And let's not forget that QE2, for all her very high profile (or more accurately, because of her very high profile), didn't actually go the Falklands themselves. She went to South Georgia where her embarked troops from 5 Inf Bde were crossed-decked onto Canberra. So, as we're on the subject, let's remember all the other STUFT vessels, many of which spent a long time down there and were actively involved in the action (in particular Atlantic Conveyor, which was lost). For the record they were:

 

Alvega

Anco Charger

Atlantic Causeway

Atlantic Conveyor

Balder London

Baltic Ferry

British Dart

British Avon

British Wye

British Tay

British Trent

British Tamar

British Esk

British Test

Canberra

Contender Bezant

Cordella

Eburna

Elk

Europic Ferry

Farnella

Fort Toronto

Geestport

Iris

Irishman

Junella

Lycaon

Nordic Ferry

Norland

Northella

Pict

Salvageman

Saxonia

St. Edmund

Stena Seaspread

Tor Caledonia

Uganda

Wimpey Seahorse

Yorkshireman

 

 

Plus this group of 8 that didn't actually get there until hostilities had finished:

 

Astronomer

Avelona Star

British Enterprise III

G A Walker

Laertes

Scottish Eagle

St Helena

Stena Inspector

[mollymoo12]

DH was on the Stenna Inspector. He was due to come out of the Navy but had to stay in and was sent to join the Stenna Inspector. He was delayed by a week so didn't get down there until it was just over.

 

Still grates that he did not get the South Atlantic medal, especially as we knew he was going for a few weeks beforehand and all the worry that entailed. I was 21 and 5 months pregnant so it was a horrible time.

 

He missed our daughter being born, coming back when she was 2 weeks old.

[Cruachan]

DH was on the Stenna Inspector. He was due to come out of the Navy but had to stay in and was sent to join the Stenna Inspector. He was delayed by a week so didn't get down there until it was just over.

 

Still grates that he did not get the South Atlantic medal, especially as we knew he was going for a few weeks beforehand and all the worry that entailed. I was 21 and 5 months pregnant so it was a horrible time.

 

He missed our daughter being born, coming back when she was 2 weeks old.

 

I completely agree with your husband. At the risk of wandering too far off topic, this country, down the years, has been one of the stingiest in the world when it comes to handing out medals. When I joined the Army my battalion was full of guys who had been more or less continuously on active service since the end of the Korean War and very few of them had any more than two medals to show for their efforts.

 

J

[rushmore]

QE2 was called up as a troop ship during the Falklands War in 1982.

So was the old Canberra

[balf]

We'll need them when it all kicks off down there again.

 

A navy would be handy.

 

David.

[Austcruiser84]

That was then. Today we don't use cruise ships in war but I understand they could be if needed.

 

Most troop movement is by air in the 21st century.

[Whitemarsh]

A navy would be handy.

 

David.

 

Does Britain even have a navy anymore? As in a real 'blue water' navy.

 

I'm recalling an article in 'The Spectator' regarding the decommissioning of key types of vessels which, in effect, rendered the British navy ineffective. I do remember there being a statement that Britain would not be able to win a repeat of the Falklands war - with the current navy it has now.

 

Contrast the decision to emasculate the navy, with the ring-fencing of foreign aid - even to countries that don't want it (India) and only took the aid as the result of Britain practically begging them to take it.

 

What a sad state of affairs. :(

[Cruachan]

That was then. Today we don't use cruise ships in war but I understand they could be if needed.

 

Most troop movement is by air in the 21st century.

 

In 1982 all troop movement was by air and that had been the case for 20 years. We aren't talking about the late Bronze Age here, just the 1980s. The last British troopship was, I think, the Devonshire, which was taken out of service in 1962 following a decision that all future overseas troop movements would be carried out by air.

 

However, when the Falklands unpleasantness kicked off, the Islands were already under Argentine occupation before anyone could do anything about it; and it would have been totally impossible to fly in land forces in sufficient numbers without completely unacceptable casualties. Therefore ships were required - I may well be wrong here - and I'm sure Pepper knows more about it than I do - but I don't believe that, prior to the Falklands, any significant numbers of merchant ships had been requisitioned for naval service since the end of World War 2.

 

J

[Austcruiser84]

Does Britain even have a navy anymore? As in a real 'blue water' navy.

 

I'm recalling an article in 'The Spectator' regarding the decommissioning of key types of vessels which, in effect, rendered the British navy ineffective. I do remember there being a statement that Britain would not be able to win a repeat of the Falklands war - with the current navy it has now.

 

Contrast the decision to emasculate the navy, with the ring-fencing of foreign aid - even to countries that don't want it (India) and only took the aid as the result of Britain practically begging them to take it.

 

What a sad state of affairs. :(

 

Well, they've got a stronger navy than we do. I guess we could always requisition a P&O cruise ship for service. Even their smallest ship is bigger than our largest warship.

[pepperrn]

In 1982 all troop movement was by air and that had been the case for 20 years. We aren't talking about the late Bronze Age here, just the 1980s. The last British troopship was, I think, the Devonshire, which was taken out of service in 1962 following a decision that all future overseas troop movements would be carried out by air. However, when the Falklands unpleasantness kicked off, the Islands were already under Argentine occupation before anyone could do anything about it; and it would have been totally impossible to fly in land forces in sufficient numbers without completely unacceptable casualties. Therefore ships were required - I may well be wrong here - and I'm sure Pepper knows more about it than I do - but I don't believe that, prior to the Falklands, any significant numbers of merchant ships had been requisitioned for naval service since the end of World War 2. J

 

I agree with what you've said, in fact I nearly posted yesterday to say something similar; the only reason ships were used, was because there was no airfield available to land the forces required to re-take the islands. Like you, I can't remember an example of this after WWII. For ships to be needed again, you'd need a similar situation; large forces needed to take a small remote island. In wars since 1945, there have been airfields available.

I was going to add two examples of how things have changed from sea to air since the early 50s when they were constructed:

SS United States, built at huge government expense as a troop ship, was never used in this role. Even when she could have been. Flying was the better option.

HMY Britannia was never used as a "hospital ship" (was that ever a serious suggestion?).

As for "do we have a R.N. in 2012?", this is not the place to go into the opposing views. I have friends in both camps who read this board, they know my opinion.

I can't see a role for cruise ships as troop carriers in a future war. Like liners acting as "Armed Merchant Cruisers" the idea belongs in the history books.

 

(I don't pretend to know the legal situation, but as Bermuda is not an independent country but a British Overseas Territory, ships registered there (Cunard, P&O, Princess etc) are still "British" it would seem to me. Therefore still available for STUFT :) . But I am not (obviously) a lawyer.)

[milleruszk]

I completely agree with your husband. At the risk of wandering too far off topic, this country, down the years, has been one of the stingiest in the world when it comes to handing out medals. When I joined the Army my battalion was full of guys who had been more or less continuously on active service since the end of the Korean War and very few of them had any more than two medals to show for their efforts.

 

J

 

I know this is probably a rude question to ask, especially coming from an American, but how did Prince Charles get all of his medals. Watching him on TV at the Queen's Jubilee he certainly was not wanting for decorations!

[capnpugwash]

I know this is probably a rude question to ask, especially coming from an American, but how did Prince Charles get all of his medals. Watching him on TV at the Queen's Jubilee he certainly was not wanting for decorations!

 

I imagine that he earned or was awarded them, similar to

 

[milleruszk]

I imagine that he earned or was awarded them, similar to

 

[ATTACH]244582[/ATTACH]

 

Pardon my ignorance as a dopey American, but what rank was Prince Charles? Schwarzkopf was a General.

[capnpugwash]

Pardon my ignorance as a dopey American, but what rank was Prince Charles? Schwarzkopf was a General.

 

I believe that he was a Colonel in the Parachute Regiment and a Commander in the Navy, he currently is Admiral of the Fleet I think. I don't believe that it is a competition.:)

[pepperrn]

Pardon my ignorance as a dopey American, but what rank was Prince Charles? Schwarzkopf was a General.

 

The Prince of Wales is currently a Field Marshal in the British Army, an Admiral of the Fleet Royal Navy, a Marshal of the Royal Air Force. He is also a Vice Admiral in the Canadian Navy, a Lieutenant-General in the Canadian Army and a Lieutenant-General in the Canadian Air Force.

 

His medals are:

Queen Elizabeth II Coronation Medal

Fijian Independence Medal

Papua New Guinean Independence Medal

Queen Elizabeth II Silver Jubilee Medal

Canadian Forces Decoration

1990 Commemoration Medal

Saskatchewan Volunteer Medal

Queen Elizabeth II Golden Jubilee Medal

Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal

 

(there are further numerous Commonwealth & foreign decorations as well)

 

Hope this helps :) .

[milleruszk]

The Prince of Wales is currently a Field Marshal in the British Army, an Admiral of the Fleet Royal Navy, a Marshal of the Royal Air Force. He is also a Vice Admiral in the Canadian Navy, a Lieutenant-General in the Canadian Army and a Lieutenant-General in the Canadian Air Force.

 

His medals are:

Queen Elizabeth II Coronation Medal

Fijian Independence Medal

Papua New Guinean Independence Medal

Queen Elizabeth II Silver Jubilee Medal

Canadian Forces Decoration

1990 Commemoration Medal

Saskatchewan Volunteer Medal

Queen Elizabeth II Golden Jubilee Medal

Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal

 

(there are further numerous Commonwealth & foreign decorations as well)

 

Hope this helps :) .

 

OK, OK you guys win! I only mentioned him because one of the British posters wrote that the British military was stingy in handing out medals.

And as an outsider, that didn't appear to be the case by looking at Prince Charles in his full uniform.

[Cruachan]

OK, OK you guys win! I only mentioned him because one of the British posters wrote that the British military was stingy in handing out medals.

And as an outsider, that didn't appear to be the case by looking at Prince Charles in his full uniform.

 

Well, that poster was me and I certainly wasn't talking about the heir to the throne! I was talking about the other end of the food chain - nonentities like little ole moi. Your medal count can increase exponentially if your mummy is the one who is dishing them out. Incidentally, as well as his (actually quite small) collection of gongs, he also wears four orders of chivalry, viz:

 

The Order of the Garter (worn immediately below the medals on the left breast)

The Order of the Thistle (worn immediately below the Garter Star)

The Order of the Bath (worn at the neck), and

The Order of Merit (worn on the ADC cords on the right).

 

J