Pull the kids out of school, or no?

[Athankfulheart]

some posters on here live in a fantasy black and white world where time in school = the only relavant education for all children, all schools have strict policies and do not excuse vacations, and all parents have the flexibilty and budget to travel during school breaks.

 

I don't live in that black and white fantasy world. I live in a colorful real world. In the real world, some children are able and willing learn the lessons taught outside of the class room and some can not. In the real world, some schools systems excuse vacations and even encourage and support them and some do not. In the real world, some parents have the flexibility in their work schedules to take vacations during school breaks and some do not. In the real world, some parents have money to travel whenever they want and some do not.

 

My point is that every child, every family, and every school system are not the same. Each parent needs to make their family decisions based on their circumstances. Chipmaster will say that it has to do with values and that if you value education then you will make sure child is sitting in a classroom and not on vacation during the school year. I say that sitting in a classroom itself does not equate to an education. Imho learning the material for the class equals education and if a child can learn the material outside of the classroom then education is still valued. Not all children learn the same way. Some posters can not comprehend that in their fantasy black and white world.

 

 

+1 :)

[Athankfulheart]

Being on a trip may not teach more than being back in the classroom, however they surely would have experiences that they wouldn't have in a classroom.The content of the "curriculum" may differ, but the value can be equal to or higher than the same time spent in a classroom.

 

I don't use schools at all. If simply believing that children do not have to be in a classroom to learn is denigrating and insulting to teachers, then I guess I am guilty. I give parents the benefit of the doubt and assume that they want the best for their children. If they have a child who needs daily drills in math, then I assume they would do it. I wouldn't insult a parent by assuming that they won't work at keeping their child up to date with their class. The fact of the matter is that whether they do or not has no effect on me. I can understand why someone who comes from a long line of teachers might be upset by the comments, but would discourage you from taking it personally.

 

Life in balance = words to live by.

 

 

No, it won't. This kind of thinking denigrates and insults teachers and the hard work they do. Yes, travel (even a Caribbean cruise, which is in no way a fully "cultural" or "educational" experience) will give them many good things and have some learning benefit, including the importance of family time. But it will not, it cannot fully encompass everything that they are learning in school, period. Go ahead and say travel is educational because it is. But do not ever believe that it will "teach" them more than they would learn in school. If you think that, why not just pull your kids from school entirely and let travel educate them for their future lives?

 

Yes, I feel strongly about this. My parents were both teachers, my brother is a teacher, my grandmother was a high school science teacher when women were barely getting BS and Education degrees at all, and I taught elementary school for 3 years until I bailed for double the salary (just to start) in the private sector. No one goes into teaching for the money. They used to at least be able to count on respect, but now they barely/rarely get that. I mean after all, they're only helping prepare our most valuable "commodity" for the future.

 

One final note, my mother always encouraged parents when they took their children out of school for reasonable periods of time, when the child was doing well and would be able to work mostly independently to make up lost lessons, and when there were no critical tests (such as high school placement) during that time. She spent extra hours and effort making packets of work in advance, helping afterward, and so forth. She also insisted that the student keep a journal (to be given to her) and do a presentation in class about the trip. In my family, we are not so rigid as to think classrooms are the only place to be educated. Far from it. But it really irks me when people have the attitude that it doesn't matter at all.

 

In this case, I'd like to think that the parents will ultimately listen to their child and put her well being ahead of any other consideration.

 

beachchick

 

p.s., In the interest of full disclosure, we did pull our daughter out of school a couple of days early a few times (e.g., to extend Thanksgiving weekend to a week). But not after she was a junior in high school and only when we knew she would be able to make up the school time missed.

[angelndscz]

Totally agree!!

 

If they're out of school, maybe you could encourage them to do a 'journal' or book report (trip report) style on the ports you visit and their culture/language/currency, etc. That would teach them much more than they'd learn sitting in a desk for the week (or two) they miss anyways!

 

Have fun :)

 

Visiting a port city catering to tourists would not give the real picture of the culture/language/currency/. An eighth grader would need to provide detailed facts and appropriate references to include the report. This would mean reading books, magazines, or other references to complete research. I find tour guides who give out bad facts all the time, thus would not be a valid reference for a school report. The average middle school student would not want to spend their vacation completing a report.

 

I personally would consider my DD goal of perfect attendance in my decision. If she has set that as her personal goal, I would support it.

 

In first grade, we took DS out of school for a relatives quinceañera in San Antonio, Texas. The teacher did mention she would love to see pictures so my DS and I made a PowerPoint slide detailing what the pictures were (DS in front of Alamo, etc.). She showed the PowerPoint to the class and they all seemed to like the presentation.

[calikak]

We're pulling our kindergartener out two days early for Spring Break. We brought it up with his teacher at conference time last month, since our district will not count family vacations as excused absences and the scuttlebutt round the PTA is that you tell the teacher, then "call in sick" and every one wink-winks about it. And she said, "Kindergarten is not mandatory in this state, so you don't have to worry about attendance rules. Just let the office know so we don't worry when he doesn't show up." Huh. Live and learn. We probably would have done a trip not at spring break, when prices are lower, had we known, since the stuff they learn in kindergarten is also stuff we can easily work on during a cruise (sharing, lining up, basic reading, counting) vs an older kid who is working on advanced math or something else I am not going to be able to teach them myself!

[fritolayNY]

 

If you have to take the kids out to travel- maybe do the sensible thing and go without the kids.

 

Really? Sorry I love my children and DO NOT vacation without them! Doesn't seem sensible to me to experience life without them. But to each his/ her own.

[fritolayNY]

So it seems, by some commentors, that the only way to learn is "in school" and "at a desk" so by some of your reasoning we should tell all homeschooling parents and Montessori teachers that they are wrong? :confused:

 

My parents pulled me out of school for vacations and I graduated top 10 percent, went to college, have a great career, and have a loving wonderful family. Shame on my parents! How they ruinned my life! :eek:

 

Get off your high horse! We all wish we will live a long and perfect life but we all have heard about tragic losses of family members. Enjoy life at it's fullest. My only regrets are things I have not tried or done. :D

[lovesublime]

So it seems, by some commentors, that the only way to learn is "in school" and "at a desk" so by some of your reasoning we should tell all homeschooling parents and Montessori teachers that they are wrong? :confused:

 

My parents pulled me out of school for vacations and I graduated top 10 percent, went to college, have a great career, and have a loving wonderful family. Shame on my parents! How they ruinned my life! :eek:

 

Get off your high horse! We all wish we will live a long and perfect life but we all have heard about tragic losses of family members. Enjoy life at it's fullest. My only regrets are things I have not tried or done. :D

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I don't see anyone here on high horses. The OP came on here asking for opinions. That's just what she got.

[fritolayNY]

And bringing in fake medical excuses? Really? That's a FANTASTIC moral lesson to teach your child. Keep up the good work!

 

Not high horse?

[fritolayNY]

Sorry, I don't see anyone here on high horses. The OP came on here asking for opinions. That's just what she got.

 

Sorry your right. Reread some posts and not all that bad but as another cruiser wrote "Your opening up a can of worms." I remember many other polls on this forum about the same topic and, boy, were they harsh. Flashback I guess. :eek: Again my apologies.

[Naomi John]

You're the parent. Why ask this question of strangers on a board?

[VillaHappy]

A dedicated student (dedicated not necessarily straight A or AP) will make up the work and do whatever else is required. A poor or struggling student probably won't.

 

NOT TRUE! :eek:

[VillaHappy]

It was right after Christmas break when one of the mothers said she would be pulling her child out two weeks later. I asked the cooperating teacher I was working with if this bothered her, she said it used to until she was teaching first grade and a mother came to her a week after a vacation to say they were taking their daughter the next week to Disneyworld. The girl came back not feeling well

and one week later was diagnosed with leukemia, six weeks later she was gone. The teacher said that her parents kept saying how glad they were some of their last memories of her were happy family times and that from then on she would always be glad when people have the opportunity for family time even if it didn't fit her or the schools schedule

 

Time is precious, life is precious, and life can definitely be too short...especially in a case like this. :(

[lovesublime]

Sorry your right. Reread some posts and not all that bad but as another cruiser wrote "Your opening up a can of worms." I remember many other polls on this forum about the same topic and, boy, were they harsh. Flashback I guess. :eek: Again my apologies.

 

 

 

Don't worry about it. It's always a divisive topic here. This thread isn't as bad as some I've seem in the past.

[beachchick]

Being on a trip may not teach more than being back in the classroom, however they surely would have experiences that they wouldn't have in a classroom.The content of the "curriculum" may differ, but the value can be equal to or higher than the same time spent in a classroom.

 

I don't use schools at all. If simply believing that children do not have to be in a classroom to learn is denigrating and insulting to teachers, then I guess I am guilty. I give parents the benefit of the doubt and assume that they want the best for their children. If they have a child who needs daily drills in math, then I assume they would do it. I wouldn't insult a parent by assuming that they won't work at keeping their child up to date with their class. The fact of the matter is that whether they do or not has no effect on me. I can understand why someone who comes from a long line of teachers might be upset by the comments, but would discourage you from taking it personally.

 

Life in balance = words to live by.

 

I don't think you got my point. You stated that a cruise would give them more education than they could possibly learn in school. I did not say travel is not educational--I specifically stated that I believe it is. I also explained the ways that my mother went out of her way to make sure her students and their parents could travel during school. Of course the learning experiences between classroom and travel are different. But to state that children will get more out of a Caribbean cruise than they would out of school is what is insulting.

 

beachchick

[chipmaster]

ROFL, I can remember many a Christmas we spend a week sometimes more at home, eating breakfast togather, they come visit me at work for lunch and we have long leisure dinners at home with no homework, go see a movie on weeknights.. some of our best family times!

 

Dont' need a fancy cruise during cheaper school times. Its always the parents who because of budget or their own need for a vacation that initiate thi discussion.

 

Anything you do can be a vacation. It's the "parents" that have to come and rationalize and find others to chime in to make them feel better about something that they really know they should be doing :D

 

Really? Sorry I love my children and DO NOT vacation without them! Doesn't seem sensible to me to experience life without them. But to each his/ her own.

[Athankfulheart]

I don't think you got my point. You stated that a cruise would give them more education than they could possibly learn in school. I did not say travel is not educational--I specifically stated that I believe it is. I also explained the ways that my mother went out of her way to make sure her students and their parents could travel during school. Of course the learning experiences between classroom and travel are different. But to state that children will get more out of a Caribbean cruise than they would out of school is what is insulting.

 

beachchick

 

I think that you ae mistaking me fro someone else. I never said that a caribbean cruise is more educational than school.

[Bella cruiser]

I did a lot of cruising, mostly in the Asia Pacific Region, in my childhood and all the way through my teenage years with my family and I managed to turn out OK.:)

 

My parents were complete cruise addicts and we went with them mostly outside of School Holiday time. Some of our trips were on small passenger cargo ships (no kids clubs) and we did many long cruises too, some 42, 49 and 52 days. With the long ones our teachers would give us assignments to take with us to do and we would do about an hour a day in the library on sea days, other kids onboard were doing the same. On the shorter ones we weren't required to do any revision.

 

I think the travel was wonderful for us and I had the best childhood. I think we more confident than our peers in being able to converse freely with people of all ages. I remember my brother teaching an elderly gent to play Chess when he was 7.

 

My son is 9 years old and we have taken him on 2 cruises in the past couple of years as I would like to see him have the same opportunities as I had. One of these was partly in School Holidays and the most recent was completely outside holiday time. His principal was supportive of us taking him and he doesn't seem to have fallen behind his classmates at all. He also had an absolute blast, looks like we have another convert for the next generation of cruisers.

 

Anyway, you know your kids, just go with your feelings.

[Mandy923]

I have 3 children- 16,7,3.

 

I recently pulled the older 2 out for 4 days to cruise to Cozumel. BEST decision! We got an amazing rate, could afford 2 balconies bc of this amazing rate.

Kids got there work before we left. And my first grader finished it before we even left.

my 11th grader spent 3 hours in the ship library one afternoon- and completed all of hers.

THey are both excellent students. Make all A's/B's and did not fall behind over 4 days.

My dad use to pull me out to go with him to conventions for his work, 2-3 times a year. I graduated in the top of my class, went onto college, and earned my Masters degree too.

Didn't "Harm" me in any way, academically or otherwise.

[angelndscz]

It depends on the school district and private/public school. My kids public high school states they will not allow the kids to make-up any school work for unexcused absences. Excused absences you had three days to turn in the assignment. The definition of an excused absence was very strict and required documentation from doctors, etc. If a student has more than ten unexcused absences per school year, it is an automatic failure for the year.

 

My older two graduated high school in 2010 and 2012. The younger kids are in 4th and 5th grade. My younger kids have a new principal this year. She sent home a letter stating parents were not allowed to pull their kids from school for family vacation, sporting events, or extra curricular activities such as dance, gymnastics, soccer, or cheer practices. LOL, yea we have cheer events she will miss school for. She has good attendance and straight A's otherwise so it will just be an unexcused absence.

[fritolayNY]

While I agree meals with family and time spent at home with the children is very important. We eat every diner together, do homework, and, yes, play together. Vacations are for children too! Seeing your parents happy, relaxing and having fun is very important for a child to see. My best memories are vacations with my parents during school breaks and not. My husband never vacationed, school or not, with his parents and have no "good family time" memories, Sad isn't it.:(

 

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinions. However the Disney Corporation's success year round goes to prove that the majority believe it's ok and that not everyone can vacation during "vacation" times whether it be budget, crowds or scheduling conflicts. I not going to judge others as to their morals or values because of their choice as I am NOT better than them.

 

If your child is struggling, don't do it. But if you have raise a well rounded, high achieving, and responsible child, make the best choise for YOUR FAMILY. The only opinion that matters is your own. My children are always complimented on their kindness, politeness, thoughtfulness and ability to be responsible. I teach them to always do their personal best and anything else is unacceptable. I know I am a good parent and that is all that matters to me.

 

FYI.. I have alot of friends who are teachers and agree with me, but it does add stress to them.

[Warm Breezes]

While I agree meals with family and time spent at home with the children is very important. We eat every diner together, do homework, and, yes, play together. Vacations are for children too! Seeing your parents happy, relaxing and having fun is very important for a child to see. My best memories are vacations with my parents during school breaks and not. My husband never vacationed, school or not, with his parents and have no "good family time" memories, Sad isn't it.:(

 

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinions. However the Disney Corporation's success year round goes to prove that the majority believe it's ok and that not everyone can vacation during "vacation" times whether it be budget, crowds or scheduling conflicts. I not going to judge others as to their morals or values because of their choice as I am NOT better than them.

 

If your child is struggling, don't do it. But if you have raise a well rounded, high achieving, and responsible child, make the best choise for YOUR FAMILY. The only opinion that matters is your own. My children are always complimented on their kindness, politeness, thoughtfulness and ability to be responsible. I teach them to always do their personal best and anything else is unacceptable. I know I am a good parent and that is all that matters to me.

 

FYI.. I have alot of friends who are teachers and agree with me, but it does add stress to them.

 

Well said.

[askimdog]

To me, it's all about what happens on the cruise. We, due to work cannot cruise May-Nov., so Dec-Feb is when we can cruise. WE cruise for 7 days with a day in the port city on both ends, so make it 9-10 days every year or 2 for family vacation ( depends if savings equal a cruise).

 

The local school is small, 30 some students in 3 class rooms (K-1, 2-3 and a 4-6 grade room), so missing school can be hard or easy depending on what is currently being taught. We talk it over with the teacher and have the 10 days of homework packed. Port days it is done after dinner & before bed for our 8 year old, sea days after breakfast. I also make up "Port Packets", what the country/island speaks, currency, what the flag looks like, what grows there, local animals etc..

 

In Port we always try to visit a museum and visit a local school or orphanage, we eat local and hike less populated areas and out of the way beaches. We avoid atvs, ziplines, beach time etc. We try to find more culture than simple play time.

 

We have done 3 cruises. 1st cruise w/o child, then we had our child and postponed cruises for several years until she was old enough to enjoy them. We could not see paying for a 1-5 year old to cruise, as we felt she would not get much from it. Now that our girl is old enough, she has input on our cruise locations.

[Onessa]

DD is now 17 and a very active Junior in HS, so ANY family vacation is a struggle to schedule.

 

While she was growing up, we too really could not cruise the summer months (DH's job did not allow for vacations in June through September) -- so we generally cruised over American Thanksgiving. The week before TG week is always short (Friday off) and the week of TG is only 1.5 days (Monday and Tuesday am). So we could plan a 10-14 day vacation and really minimize her time off school.

• The school district and our state have no laws or regulations prohibiting pulling a child from school for a vacation. The school does not face any economic sanctions if a child misses several days.
  
• DD was always a great student (currently she is second in her class with a 4.15GPA). We worked closely with her teachers to make up work.
  
• Our trips are not the sitting on the beach or going to amusement parks type vacations. So visiting Volcanos National park, or the Colisseum and Pompeii, or the Acropolis and the site of the ancient Olympic games, or going through the Panama Canal are pretty good experiences.
  And generally she would put together a report and/or bring back some local stuff for her class. I saw her 4th grade teacher who says she still uses the volcanoes powerpoint presentation that my DD made for science class using pictures that she had taken (from age three to ten in Washington, in Tialy, in Hawaii.
  

If it is against the rules to take your kid out of school, if your kid is struggling in school, or if you are taking a trip just to save a couple of bucks while you dig yourself into the sand while your kids are running wild unsupervised on the ship; maybe you should think twice about it. But if it works for you and your family, and your child's school -- off-season travel can be a great experience.

[Onessa]

I agree with Chip and Sublime and previous posters... When you take the kids out of school for random vacations, it sends a message that school is not as important as Disney, cruises, skiing, etc.

DH and I have work committments Dec through January and/or Late May through mid September. I don't believe that witnessing adults blowing off important work committments sends a positive message either.

 

DD's school does not have a "spring break" as well as our vacations tend to be Europe and/or Asia and the travel possibilities in many of those places are very limited prior to late May-ish.

I'm not sure how your schools work, but my students are STRESSED if they miss one day, and they are completely overwhelmed if they miss three days. I have to arrange extra help sessions and schedule make-up tests and quizzes on a separate calendar for them. If you can make up an entire weeks worth of work while waiting in an airport? You might want to check to see what level of work that school is putting out for their students! That's embarrassing. Unless it's an average elementary school, I guess.

Last year DD finished up a nearly a week's worth of calculus and her chemistry during a three hour airplane ride (with 40+ of her classmates on the plane no less). Math is easy for her, the English and AP Euro History were a bit more stressful for her, but got those done as well :). My point is different kids react differently -- helping nearly 200 kids stay up-to-date on school work during a school trip last year showed me that. Some were very self-suffient, some needed prodding but worked fine as long as you kept on them, others really needed help.

 

I'm not sure of how your school works, but in my DD's high school during the month of June she has manditory band practices every Tuesday and Thursday evening (5:30 to 9:30), band camp for four days the first week of August (8:00am until 9:00pm), this past year she took PhyEd -- six weeks from early June to late July - four hours a day, five days a week, miss even one-half hour and you had to make it up double. Miss more than one day and it was nearly impossible to make it up (took summer PhyEd so she could fit AP Enviro Science into her schedule). AP Chem had four hours of lab time each week in August. AP ES had two manditory field trips during the summer. She took an English class through a local college that met in during the school's summer session.

Then she plays and refs rec league soccer, trains for cross-country and volunteers at the botanical gardens 8-10 hours a week during the summer. Cross-country meets start in Late August.

 

So even if Mom could take vacation in the summer, DD really could not.

 

During the school year there are times that are a bit of a lull for all of us -- late October and November. Football season is over (no marching band), classes are underway, Cross-country has wrapped up. Getting time off that coincides with the five-day weekend at the end of October or American Thanksgiving is probably among the less stressful times of her year.

...if you want your school to bend over backwards with advance assignments, extra help before and after school with concepts missed while on vacation, or even extended time for assignments or tests missed? I'd like to recommend HOME SCHOOLING. Then, your child can learn whatever they want, whenever they want, and you aren't putting any extra expectations on 6, 7, 8 teachers that may have up to 150 other students to plan, test, and grade...I will make arrangements for students who are ill... that is unfortunate and unplanned. BUT... when you tell me that your DD or DS won't be in school the week of final exams . . .

Never vacationed during final exams week, or the time frames for the standardized tests. DD has never asked for any extra help before or after school (although she is a volunteer peer-tutor in her school's chemistry and math programs, so she has provided extra help). The expectation at her school is that she will get the assignments off of the teachers' class web sites and have them completed her first day back. She must either take tests before she leaves or be prepared to take them the day she gets back. Those are the rules that her school has set out -- and as long as we follow them, I cannot see why you should be telling me (in all caps in many spots, no less) that I should be looking at other options.

 

DD has straight As, consistently tests in the top 97-99% in national standardized tests, is a member of the state honors band, is active in extra-curricular activities and consistently volunteers her time. She deserves a vacation.

 

I have five people who report to me -- we handle several responsibilities that due to federal or state regulations have strict deadlines. If one of them plans time off when something that they are responsible for is due -- it is their responsibility to make certain that it is done in a timely fashion -- prework, agreeing with a co-worker that the co-worker will take on some of the work, coming back from a trip Sunday at 1:30 but being in at 5:30am on Monday to make certain the information was ready for the Tuesday deadline.

 

My DD's school's policies prepare her for that type of real world -- if she agrees to a family vacation in November that requires her to take time off of school, she is now responsible to make that happen. Adjusting work schedules, working with teachers or peers to get assignments and work through projects.

 

And bringing in fake medical excuses? Really? That's a FANTASTIC moral lesson to teach your child. Keep up the good work!

Here we agree. If the school's regulations or state regs/laws prohibit pre-planned excused absences, lying to "get around" the rules is stupid.

 

If pulling your kid out of school does not work for your child, or for your school -- don't do it. But if it is the best solution for your family and your kid and doesn't break the rules, consider it.