Divorced Mother and her Child

[Mach1]

I think you are correct to try to get the proper documentation. It would be a major problem is someone demanded a letter and you didn't have it. I'm just asking questions to learn about the process. We may bring a grandchild with us some day. Our daughter was over 18 when she first got her passport, so at that age I don't think she even needed parent's consent to apply.

 

I agree. At 18 they do not need parents permission, but still have to add them (parents) to the application for passport. I can't even imagine what all you need to take a grandchild.

 

OP - this was a great thread and made me think of something I wouldn't have otherwise!

 

It is always best to be safe than sorry. I will be bringing a letter - just in case. Heck might even need it to board the plane ... considering we are flying out of the country. (I know San Juan PR is our territory...but never know)

[Kerry's Girls]

Pardon my ignorance, but how does anyone know if a child has one or two surviving parents? Are the parent's names on the child's passport?

 

If the child is traveling with one parent, that parent can be asked to prove they're allowed to leave the country with the child. This can be done by showing custody papers, notarized permission, death certificate, birth certificate proving there is only one parent, etc.

 

As others have stated, I have been asked for proof on a fraction of our cruises, but it has happened. Insurance would not cover failure to bring required paperwork. You can be asked when getting on the ship, and also at immigration when dis-embarking - which could delay making a flight if you don't have the proper paperwork.

 

Best,

Mia

[Kerry's Girls]

So how does the cruise line, customs, etc., know you're divorced? What if you're a widow or you had in-vitro fertilization to have your child. What type of documentation do you provide? ;)

 

They don't know - that's why they can ask for proof if there is only one parent traveling. If you're a widow, you have a certified death certificate. If you had in-vitro, there is only one parent on the birth certificate.

 

Best,

Mia

[Clarea]

I agree. At 18 they do not need parents permission, but still have to add them (parents) to the application for passport. I can't even imagine what all you need to take a grandchild.

 

OP - this was a great thread and made me think of something I wouldn't have otherwise!

 

It is always best to be safe than sorry. I will be bringing a letter - just in case. Heck might even need it to board the plan ... considering we are flying out of the country. (I know San Juan PR is our territory...but never know)

Yes, this government stuff is laughable sometimes. I remember one time they hassled us boarding a plane because our daughter did not have an ID. She was 15 and tall for her age and didn't have a photo ID. You only need a photo ID if you are 18 or over. So on one hand they say she doesn't need an ID, and on the other hand they want us to prove she is not 18. Typical government.

[Mach1]

Yes, this government stuff is laughable sometimes. I remember one time they hassled us boarding a plane because our daughter did not have an ID. She was 15 and tall for her age and didn't have a photo ID. You only need a photo ID if you are 18 or over. So on one hand they say she doesn't need an ID, and on the other hand they want us to prove she is not 18. Typical government.

 

That is so true! It has crossed my mind a few times that I should get her a state issured ID card for these puposes. You don't always want to carry thier passport or Birth Cert.

 

I guess that might be my next stop :o

[Onessa]

If a minor is travelling with an adult, that adult may be asked for proof that they are authorized to be travelling. It is more likely that you will be asked if there is only one parent travelling or if if there is a difference in last names among the child and the adult(s). It is also more likely if you are in one of those situations and you or your child's passport is due to expire in the next few months. There is a lot a weird stuff that raises "red flags", not to mention the times when you just happen to be the randomly selected person or family to undergo more rigourous checks.

 

We were asked by Canadian officials if they could interview our then 8YO DD. We were the first cruise ship out of Vancouver that spring and they had several trainees that they wanted to run through some real-life scenarios. Since both her father and I were travelling with her, and since all three of us have the same last name; the trainee assigned to the excercise "explained" to his supervisor, that he did not need to validate that the child was allowed to travel. The trainer explained to the group that if the child's last name differed from one or both of the adults -- that they should verify, and that if there was not government issued ID that explained the name varience, that that is when they should request a notarized letter to prove that the child is supposed to be travelling. They asked dd who we were, why we all were there, etc. They gave her an embroidered Canadian flag patch for helping out.

 

My boss is divorced and has had some issues travelling out of the country with his DDs when they were younger. They all have the same last name, but there is still some bias out there about a man travelling "alone" with young girls I suppose. Fortunately he has had all of the necessary documentation and has not been denied boarding (just needed to jumpt through some extra hoops).

 

We were on a trip with a gentleman and his DD. His wife/the mother had passed away and the airline gave him a hard time about not having documentation -- another relative was able to make it to the airport with a copy of his wife's death certificate in time for them to make their flight. He brought the documentation with him, but no one else (cruise line, emmigration, etc) asked.

 

So if you are travelling without your child's "other" parent for whatever reason, it is not a bad idea to have a notarized letter from the absent parent authorizing the travel (include dates and locations to which you will be travelling), or the appropriate documentation that proves that you are the sole guardian (custody papers, death certs, whatever pertains to your situation). If no one asks for it, no sweat -- but if someone does (airline, cruiseline, government) you'll be prepared.

[sherilyn70]

A few things to consider... just because both parents applied for the passport together doesn't mean the relationship didn't go south really fast in the time it's still valid. You can't assume that what was decided 2 years ago is still valid today. Ex's become bitter very fast sometimes.

 

Just because someone has sole custody doesn't mean they have full rights. The divorce decree can still have many stipulations on what the custodial parent can and cannot do, in our case she cannot take my husbands children out of the state without notifying him. She cannot take them out of the country without his permission. He didn't disown them, he simply made it simpler for every day decisions to be made and carried out. He still gets to see them and spend time with them and she does not have the right to do whatever she pleases if it might interfere with them seeing him.

 

So it's best to get a notarized paper stating that they've approved of this trip and aware of it.

[Esmerelda]

>Sherylin70, RC was the channel that told me just as long as we had passports and I had divorce papers in hand (showing full custody), there was no problem. As I said in over 6 cruises, only 1 lady got snippy with me and I asked for a supervisor. The supervisor sided with me that this was all that was necessary in a full custody situation. I've always brought my printed out email from RC stating just that. I know at least 4 parents with full custody of their kids and there are no stipulations about leaving the state/country for vacation or whatever the purpose is. That would seem very odd to me.

 

I'm so glad I don't have to worry about this any

longer. I YI YI...:o

[lstiblier]

Thanks for all the thoughts and comments. I did call RCCL today- according to their policy there is a problem only if the mother and child have different last names. Both have passports with the same last names. Next time they cruise they will have different last names. Paternal dad is not always co-operative- but we will try to get a notorized letter- jic

[Kerry's Girls]

Thanks for all the thoughts and comments. I did call RCCL today- according to their policy there is a problem only if the mother and child have different last names. Both have passports with the same last names. Next time they cruise they will have different last names. Paternal dad is not always co-operative- but we will try to get a notorized letter- jic

 

The problem is, at the pier no one cares what someone on the phone told you. Glad you're trying to get the notarized letter. Also, as I mentioned above, I've usually been questioned at immigration when getting off the ship - and I can guarantee they have no interest in what the cruise line said. Not a big deal to be delayed if you're driving home, but if you're trying to catch a flight, it could be a problem.

 

Have a great time!

 

Best,

Mia

[Chicky2181]

I would get a notarized letter giving permission for the child to travel with the parent. Just to be on the safe side.

 

My husband and I are married, but I never changed my last name and my daughter was given her fathers last name. I always travel with a form that we filled out and hubby signed and notarized giving permission for her to travel with me. I've never needed it, but I like to have it just in case I am questioned about the different last names.

 

You can find these forms online. I did a google search and found one to download.

[Raenstoirm]

I have no real experience here, but we saw some documentary (I think it was called Cruise Inc), with a mom and a kid traveling. They required the dad to fax in a note saying it was ok for the kid to travel.

[gfd_2]

Does anyone know- mother and child are traveling with us. Mother has custody and dad has visiting privileges. Mom and child both have passports. Does the mom need a letter of permission from the dad? I'm thinking not- but don't want any surprises when we embark.

 

I'd check with the state dept but I think if you travel internationally you should have to have approval from the missing parent. Info here:

[sherilyn70]

I know at least 4 parents with full custody of their kids and there are no stipulations about leaving the state/country for vacation or whatever the purpose is. That would seem very odd to me.

 

I'm not sure why you would find that odd. It's no different than determining where pickups occur and how the occur or who pays for what types of activities. It is also fairly standard to include clauses about where the parent is allowed to move to and if they should then how it will be handled. In our case, if she needs to move out of state then she is obligated to transport them at her cost to us and then back home on major holidays and for the summer. He's still their father regardless of who has the custodial custody and she can't just run off with them and keep them from him whenever she pleases. Some fathers actually do actively stay in their childrens lives after divorce. Full custody does not negate the other parents rights.

[mzk90]

Thanks for all the thoughts and comments. I did call RCCL today- according to their policy there is a problem only if the mother and child have different last names. Both have passports with the same last names. Next time they cruise they will have different last names. Paternal dad is not always co-operative- but we will try to get a notorized letter- jic

 

You don't need a notarised letter if you are the parent, you just need to bring the official paperwork that shows why the surnames are different, wedding cert/divorce papers/birth cert etc.

[xxHadleyxx]

I am married to the father of my children and we all have the same last name. Nonetheless, I always had a notarized letter from my husband when I traveled internationally with the kids and without him.

 

I was asked for it twice (out of maybe 30 trips). Both times were for flights (we've never cruised without him); one leaving for Mexico from NYC and once returning to the US from Mexico.

 

Now that they are older teens and old enough to be allowed to fly solo (and often do), then I do not bother with it any more--but when they were young I ABSOLUTELY preferred to have it and not need it than the other way around.

[cruisnseas]

They key here is: can the mother prove she is the mother (or does it appear that way).

 

Birth certificate: Is her name, as it appears on her travel documents the same name that appears on the child's BC? And, if not, can she show through legal documents (marriage, divorce papers, etc) that she is that person?

 

Are their last names the same?

 

I don't care what anyone says here. The legal guardian of a child can take that child cruising without permission from anyone. As long as there is no question that the adult is the parent no one will stop them. It is ridiculous to claim a mother would need permission from the father to sail. What if the father was a sperm donor? Or just some deadbeat not around? Abusive and no longer in the picture? Dead? Divorced and trying to ruin the mother's vacation?

 

In all my time working with Royal I worked weekends a great amount of time and on weekends dealt exclusively with denied boarding issues. Not one case came across my desk or those of my co-workers were a legal parent was denied boarding with their child because they didn't have a letter from the other parent. Not once.

[ducklite]

Full custody does not negate the other parents rights.

 

It really depends on a number of factors, but "rights" can be severely limited by the divorce decree.

[TravelerThom]

They key here is: can the mother prove she is the mother (or does it appear that way).

 

Birth certificate: Is her name, as it appears on her travel documents the same name that appears on the child's BC? And, if not, can she show through legal documents (marriage, divorce papers, etc) that she is that person?

 

Are their last names the same?

I don't care what anyone says here. The legal guardian of a child can take that child cruising without permission from anyone. As long as there is no question that the adult is the parent no one will stop them. It is ridiculous to claim a mother would need permission from the father to sail. What if the father was a sperm donor? Or just some deadbeat not around? Abusive and no longer in the picture? Dead? Divorced and trying to ruin the mother's vacation?

 

In all my time working with Royal I worked weekends a great amount of time and on weekends dealt exclusively with denied boarding issues. Not one case came across my desk or those of my co-workers were a legal parent was denied boarding with their child because they didn't have a letter from the other parent. Not once.

Quoting from the US Department of State http://travel.state.gov/abduction/prevention/prevention_560.html

 

"A well-written custody decree is an important line of defense against international parental child abduction. In your custody decree, it may be advisable to include a statement that prohibits your child from traveling abroad without your permission or that of the court."

 

Perhaps the adult can take the child, but they may not be allowed to. Whether cruise lines make an attempt to check [and although it does not seem to happen often, there are numerous reports that they do on occasion attempt to check], removal of a child from the country in defiance of a custody decree is a violation of the Hague Abduction Convention, a treaty signed by the US. To say that it is "ridiculous to claim a mother would need permission from the father to sail" when it is written in a custody decree is ludicrous. I hope your other advice is better than this is.

 

Thom

[srvdmy4usn]

I'm curious as to who you think is making the decision about whether people get on board? [HINT: in most cases it IS the cruise line, often based on worst case interpretations of various laws]. You can attempt to sue the cruise line after your ship has sailed without you, but the cruise contract you sign makes this very difficult even if you are in the right.

 

Although it is not unusual to never be asked for documentation, it is entirely possible that the cruise line may assume that you are from an area demanding the utmost in permissions and documentation. As suggested elsewhere, if a notarized permission is easily obtained, it will be worth it for peace of mind if nothing else.

 

Thom

 

This is directly from the RC website:

 

Family Legal Documents

Should the last names of the parent and minor child traveling with them differ, the parent is required to present the child’s valid passport and visa (if required) and the child’s birth certificate (original, a notarized copy or a certified copy). The name of the parent(s) and the child must be linked through legal documentation. Adults who are not the parent or Legal Guardian of any minor child traveling with them are required to present the child’s valid passport and visa or the child’s birth certificate (original, a notarized copy or a certified copy) and an original notarized letter signed by at least one of the child’s parents. The notarized letter from the child’s parent must authorize the traveling adult to take the child on the specific cruise, must authorize guardian to sign legal documentation/waivers for participation in any activities requiring them (i.e. Rock Climbing, Flowrider, Bungee Trampoline, Inline Skating, or Ice Skating) and must authorize the traveling adult to supervise the child and permit any medical treatment that must be administered to the child. If a non-parent adult is a Legal Guardian, the adult must present a certified certificate of Guardianship with respect to the child.

 

What I meant by my original post is that there may be other reasons a Mother or Father would be traveling without the other parent. They could be still married and simply traveling alone, one of the parents may have died, unknown father, incarceration, etc. The cruise line will question the documents if the last name differs from the adult, but if they are the same they will not simply speculate that you are a divorced family.

[Kerry's Girls]

I don't care what anyone says here. The legal guardian of a child can take that child cruising without permission from anyone. As long as there is no question that the adult is the parent no one will stop them. It is ridiculous to claim a mother would need permission from the father to sail. What if the father was a sperm donor? Or just some deadbeat not around? Abusive and no longer in the picture? Dead? Divorced and trying to ruin the mother's vacation?

 

 

You may think it's ridiculous, but it's necessary to prevent a non-custodial parent from leaving the country with a child. Once in a foriegn country, it can be difficult or impossible for a custodial parent to get the child back. Your post is what's ridiculous - to claim you know what you're talking about when there are plenty of us who have been questioned and would not have been allowed to proceed if we didn't have the documentation. Just because you never saw it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Yes, we are only asked a fraction of the time, but it does happen. If the father is a sperm donor there is only one parent on the birth certificate. Dead - there's a death certificate. No longer in the picture is trickier but I wouldn't spend money on a trip without having court paperwork proving I can travel alone with my child - the chance of losing the expense wouldn't be worth it to me. It irks me when people who don't know what they're talking about make bold statements like this when it could really harm someone who then thinks there is no risk in leaving the country without proper paperwork. Thankfully, before I cruised I got good advice from others at Cruise Critic and always have my husband's certified death certificate with me when we travel.

 

Best,

Mia

[srvdmy4usn]

... it's necessary to prevent a non-custodial parent from leaving the country with a child.

 

Agree 100%, but I am not sure this relates to the OP's question. Although it is probably helpful to other readers.

 

As I previously stated, I would consult an attorney if you have any question as to your legal rights to take the child out of the country.

 

But, as far as Royal Caribbean's policy is concerned. A US citizen sailing on a cruise originating in the US and terminating in the US does not need any documentation to prove guardianship or "permission to travel" unless the child's last name is different than the adult traveling.

 

That simple fact alone protects you as the customer/traveler in case there are issues. Yes, an employee checking you in on the ship may misunderstand what the policy is, but that is what supervisors and managers are for. If you can show the policy that it is not required then you will be ok.

 

Either way, I agree with everyone that has said if you can get a signed letter than it surely cant hurt to bring one.

[CruiseLover72]

What is the age cutoff for a minor child? Is 18 considered an adult where paperwork is no longer needed?

[TravelerThom]

...The cruise line will question the documents if the last name differs from the adult, but if they are the same they will not simply speculate that you are a divorced family.

Since a cruise (especially a closed loop cruise) is unlikely to be the method of choice for Parental Abduction of a minor child, you are probably correct that a question of permission to cruise would be unusual if last names are the same. However, it is not that unusual on international air flights for one parent traveling without the other parent to be asked for proof that they have unencumbered right to take the child(ren) to another country even if their names match. One only has to look at msg 41 by NHDisneylover at the top of this page to see proof of that.

 

One does not have to be divorced for this to be an issue. There are numerous cases where a marriage is breaking down but courts have yet to be involved, and one parent takes their children to a foreign country (generally the parent's country of origin) where their status as a citizen of that country (while the other parent is not a citizen of that country) is highly likely to sway courts in their favor. Unless there was specific permission from the other parent for such travel, this would be considered to be Parental Abduction under the Hague Convention.

[srvdmy4usn]

What is the age cutoff for a minor child? Is 18 considered an adult where paperwork is no longer needed?

 

If by paperwork you mean guardianship or different last name issues, yes, at the age of 18 any court documents you would have that discuss guardianship and or parenting time/rights would be "void"

 

However 16 is when RC makes changes to the documentation policies so make sure you bring the proper docs.

 

You can read the travel doc policy here

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/beforeyouboard/travelDocumentation.do?cS=NAVBAR&pnav=4&snav=5