Why no life guards??

[Karysa]

No, not at all. For a fence to be effective at keepping people out of a pool, it should be a minimum of 6 feet high. I don't see that happening on a ship.

 

Keeping a 25 year old drunk out isn't really the issue here. A well designed 4 ft rod iron fence should be sufficient in keeping young children out during the day and covering the pool or draining the water out at night is also another idea. It certainly would impact the look of the pool deck that is for sure. But then again aesthetics is not the issue is it?

[ksimpso3]

We been on ten cruises with our girls. We've had lifeguards every single cruise, it's called PARENTING. If our kids are swimming we are with them in the pool. Sure, it makes for a different type of vacation, but if we are in the mood for an adult vacation, we leave our dd's at home. I'm one of the cruel ones, as I feel sorry for the innocent children that are left to vacation on their own. Ships are dangerous, and kids need supervised 100% of the time.

 

I agree 100%!! Who cares more about your child than you??? A lifeguard might be an extra set of eyes, but I would not rely on one to watch my girls when they were young. What if lifeguard is distracted by something else (unruly kids, another boy or girl around that "caught their eye" if you know what I mean??...after a lot of lifeguards are teenagers or college kids just making some money for the summer). I would never leave my child alone assuming the lifeguard was watching them. I think it gives many parents a false sense of security.

[Karysa]

I agree 100%!! Who cares more about your child than you??? A lifeguard might be an extra set of eyes, but I would not rely on one to watch my girls when they were young. What if lifeguard is distracted by something else (unruly kids, another boy or girl around that "caught their eye" if you know what I mean??...after a lot of lifeguards are teenagers or college kids just making some money for the summer). I would never leave my child alone assuming the lifeguard was watching them. I think it gives many parents a false sense of security.

 

What about for the kids that aren't as lucky as yours? Some kids need an extra set of eyes. I am willIng to sacrifice some money and freedom for those children and so that no one has to wittness what the people on the Breakaway did.

 

I might say that the college kid that gets a job at the local movie theatre is just making some money for the summer but lifeguards are trained and they contribute to society even when they are not on duty. My DD didnt even think that she would apply for a lifeguard job when she did her training. She taught piano for a music studio during the year and loved her camp councelling job in the summer. She decided to get her life guarding certifications so that she would be trained to help out in an emergency on both land and water.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Karysa

[katyjeka]

As much as I'd like to agree with you, I can't. If I would have been on the breakaway, I would have been furious. How dare anyone leave two children of those ages unsupervised in the pool area. If this sounds as if I'm placing blame, so be it. If a parent/guardian would have been doing their job, this would not have happened. It was 100% preventable. Come on, the two boys were not being watched, and one innocent little boy paid the ultimate price. I'm tired of people coddling adults who not only should know better, but MUST know better. Would a lifeguard have prevented this.Unfortunately we will never know. However, lifeguards are not replacement parents/guardians. I'm tired of cruising with parents who feel the ship is a safe playground for unsupervised kids. The only good thing to come out of this tragedy, maybe one person will think twice before turning their back on their kids. My heart aches for the precious little boy, and more so for his brother who will now have to live with this nightmare for the rest of his life.

[Karysa]

As much as I'd like to agree with you, I can't. If I would have been on the breakaway, I would have been furious. How dare anyone leave two children of those ages unsupervised in the pool area. If this sounds as if I'm placing blame, so be it. If a parent/guardian would have been doing their job, this would not have happened. It was 100% preventable. Come on, the two boys were not being watched, and one innocent little boy paid the ultimate price. I'm tired of people coddling adults who not only should know better, but MUST know better. Would a lifeguard have prevented this.Unfortunately we will never know. However, lifeguards are not replacement parents/guardians. I'm tired of cruising with parents who feel the ship is a safe playground for unsupervised kids. The only good thing to come out of this tragedy, maybe one person will think twice before turning their back on their kids. My heart aches for the precious little boy, and more so for his brother who will now have to live with this nightmare for the rest of his life.

 

Well said. If I was on the Breakaway I honestly think that I would have gotten off on the first port. I would have been devastated and saved the furious for later.

[Lizcourt]

As much as I'd like to agree with you, I can't. If I would have been on the breakaway, I would have been furious. How dare anyone leave two children of those ages unsupervised in the pool area. If this sounds as if I'm placing blame, so be it. If a parent/guardian would have been doing their job, this would not have happened. It was 100% preventable. Come on, the two boys were not being watched, and one innocent little boy paid the ultimate price. I'm tired of people coddling adults who not only should know better, but MUST know better. Would a lifeguard have prevented this.Unfortunately we will never know. However, lifeguards are not replacement parents/guardians. I'm tired of cruising with parents who feel the ship is a safe playground for unsupervised kids. The only good thing to come out of this tragedy, maybe one person will think twice before turning their back on their kids. My heart aches for the precious little boy, and more so for his brother who will now have to live with this nightmare for the rest of his life.

 

I have been following the threads on this tragedy and trying not to comment, but one more "where are the parents?" comment on a Cruise News forum thread on this topic was all I could take, and I'm having the same reaction to this one. What the HE** is wrong with you supercilious self-righteous judges of other people's actions? I don't know where the parents were on the ship, but I know where they are now: in a funeral home picking out a child-sized coffin. Do you think maybe, just maybe, we could all spare them our perfect parenting tips? Do you think maybe, just maybe, this horrendous accident came from a moment's lapse by people who were loving, careful parents? And do you think maybe, just maybe, those parents, who will have to live with that moment's lapse in the form of an empty bedroom and a frozen-in-time picture of a toddler they'll never see again, could be spared the judgment of people who weren't there, don't know what happened and don't know them?

 

Have NONE of you ever had a child -- especially a toddler -- elude your grasp for a moment, and run off in a busy shopping mall? Have NONE of you ever turned your back for a moment and found your child about to run into traffic, or fall out of a tree they shouldn't have climbed, or even fall into a pool? Fortunately, that moment of inattention didn't cost you the child you love; thank your lucky stars, or heaven above, and hug your kids a little tighter tonight. These people weren't as lucky as you, and their lives will never be the same as a result. Demonizing them when you don't know the facts is not the answer; in fact, in my humble opinion, it's heartless.

 

I don't know if cruise ships should have lifeguards, or fences or any other kind of protection. It seems to me its worth considering, but I could be wrong. And it certainly isn't meant as a substitute for parental supervision. But even if I thought that such measures were a bad idea, I hope I wouldn't find it necessary to defend the cruise line at the cost of casting aspersions and blame on people who have already suffered, and are suffering, enough.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Lizcourt

[Karysa]

I don't see it as people defending the cruiseline on this one. I see it as people not wanting the unsightliness of a fence, the inconvenience of a locked gate and extra expense of a lifeguard. Have you ever heard of someone at a "y" complain about having lifeguards or being upset that a hotel had a fenced and gated pool? I have not.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Karysa

[luddite]

Keeping a 25 year old drunk out isn't really the issue here. A well designed 4 ft rod iron fence should be sufficient in keeping young children out during the day and covering the pool or draining the water out at night is also another idea. It certainly would impact the look of the pool deck that is for sure. But then again aesthetics is not the issue is it?

 

A side note: at the zoo in Brooklyn, a ten foot fence separated by a moat followed by another fence wasn't enough to keep kids out of the polar bear exhibit. One kid and two bears found out the hard way that a fence wasn't the answer for safety.

[Karysa]

A side note: at the zoo in Brooklyn, a ten foot fence separated by a moat followed by another fence wasn't enough to keep kids out of the polar bear exhibit. One kid and two bears found out the hard way that a fence wasn't the answer for safety.

 

Are you talking about the 11 year old back in 1987? Ya, if someone really wants in somewhere they WILL find a way. The children that have been reported as drowned or nearly drowned have been in the under 8 age group.

[Lizcourt]

A side note: at the zoo in Brooklyn, a ten foot fence separated by a moat followed by another fence wasn't enough to keep kids out of the polar bear exhibit. One kid and two bears found out the hard way that a fence wasn't the answer for safety.

 

Yup, heard there was a drowning at the Jersey Shore last year too. Guess we can get rid of all the lifeguards down there now, since they obviously weren't the answer to keeping swimmers safe.

 

Or maybe (and I'm just spitballing here) for every person that drowned (or every kid that managed to get over the fence at the zoo) there were dozens, or hundreds, or maybe even thousands who DIDN'T die because those safety precautions were in place. Ya think?

[katyjeka]

I have raised three toddlers, and we are on number four. I am the far from being the perfect parent, and have made a million mistakes and counting!!!! A kid falling from a tree in a yard is NOT the same as leaving a young child around water, not supervised. This is STUPIDY. I have yet to blame the parents, as I'm not even sure they were on the ship. However, the boys did not get on the ship alone, and that person/persons boarded the ship with the understanding they were responsible for that child. If you believe two young children fell into the pool and were being supervised at the time, okay. The pools are tiny, and the responsible adult would have jumped right in. They should have been in with them, or not had them by the pool. I'm not fond of cruise ship pools, but when our kids want in, I'm in. If you want to tell me I think I'm perfect, go for it, I call it responsible. I know how fast a toddler can run away from you, so okay, the little boys were running and fell in, wouldn't the adult go right in? They didn't because they were not there. I'm tired of being on a cruise and trying to find the parents of misplaced children. We've had to get crew members to take four year olds to find their adult. No excuse for this. I pray every evening I never have to live through the nightmare of burying a child. I'm not sure I could ever make it through it, however, you will never see our dd's unsupervised by a pool. As i stated, my heart aches for that precious little boy and his brother whose life was forever changed. My heart is also heavy for the parents, and whoever was in charge of the little boys. This however, does not excuse the person who did not make the boys priority.

[Oppalopa]

I live in Florida. Have heard of a lot less child drowning in pools since we have a law requiring fences .Still happens but much less now. Anyone who does not want to pay a dollar more for a lifeguard has something wrong with them.

[Oppalopa]

I will say there might be more to this since the last child who drowned on Carnival had his mother in the pool with him. I could never blame the parents

[Swampbabe]

I live in Florida. Have heard of a lot less child drowning in pools since we have a law requiring fences .Still happens but much less now. Anyone who does not want to pay a dollar more for a lifeguard has something wrong with them.

You must have not lived here very long, the law about fencing around your pool has been around for as long as I can remember and I'm 55. Here in Central Florida there is a child drowning at least once a month. My daughter was a lifeguard at a community pool and has, on more than one occasion, had to fish the same child out of the pool MULTIPLE TIMES while the parent was on a cellphone.

 

Also, another job of the lifeguard is to keep the pool deck from being overcrowded. Would you like to be the person in charge of that on a cruise ship?

Edited February 7, 2014 by Swampbabe

[katyjeka]

I too believe there is more to this, time will tell. I have to wonder if one didn't try to save another? I would pay more to have a lifeguard on, no complaints, but not sure that's the answer. I'm sure they wouldn't have a lifeguard on during closed hours, or watching all hottubs. A fence would have to be super high to prevent a child from climbing over. The real solution is parents on duty, at all times.

[Barb Nahoumi]

I've seen pools and hot tubs that were drained when closed at night. They had nets over them, as well.

[cle-guy]

Lifeguards aren't needed because everyone coming on a cruise ship is an adult capable of monitoring themselves.

 

Any non-adults brought aboard had to have an aforementioned adult agree to be responsible for their care and supervision in order to be boarded.

 

Therefore the cruise ship need not monitor because they have already had a close family member agree to handle the supervision, and one would have to think that it's far better having 1 close family member monitor 1 child than 1 lifeguard monitor a whole pool full of people.

 

Families with kids should scout the ship looking for danger zones (i.e. a pool without a fence) and avoid them with their children if they are so concerned about their safety. Or acknowledge the potential standard pool hazard and monitor accordingly.

 

Or let families with children pay an extra daily fee and then that can go towards lifeguard training, housing, meals, travel, licensing, certifications, wages, liability insurance and related HR expenses. And there's STILL no guarantee an accident won't happen.

 

As usual, I go to the side of "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY".

 

It's always a tragedy but there is mover 100% safety in anything one does. Accidents unfortunately do happen.

[Karysa]

I don't see it as people defending the cruiseline on this one. I see it as people not wanting the unsightliness of a fence, the inconvenience of a locked gate and extra expense of a lifeguard. Have you ever heard of someone at a "y" complain about having lifeguards or being upset that a hotel had a fenced and gated pool? I have not.

 

Kind of a harsh post but could it be true??

[Charles4515]

This however, does not excuse the person who did not make the boys priority.

 

Lots here are making the assumption that whoever was responsible for the boys was not there. I don't know if they were or were not. None posting knows either. In many cases when someone is drowning it is not obvious. They don't make noise or thrash about. They are suffocating so they are quiet.

[declansdad]

I don't see it as people defending the cruiseline on this one. I see it as people not wanting the unsightliness of a fence, the inconvenience of a locked gate and extra expense of a lifeguard. Have you ever heard of someone at a "y" complain about having lifeguards or being upset that a hotel had a fenced and gated pool? I have not.

 

 

There is a heck of a lot more room at a hotel or resort for a fence than on a ship. A fence might keep kids out of a pool when it was closed but during the day it would just be another barrier making it hard to monitor the kids in the pool. It just isn't a practical solution.

[suncityjim]

Can this dead horse be hauled off and sent to the glue factory.

[Oppalopa]

Yes I am older than you and have lived here a long time and have a pool.

[declansdad]

Can this dead horse be hauled off and sent to the glue factory.

 

 

You have a problem with people discussing an issue?

[Karysa]

Can this dead horse be hauled off and sent to the glue factory.

 

It's an evolving discussion. Things have changed since the first post months ago. Has the recent tragedy changed your mind regarding Lifeguards or securing the pool area in another way on a cruise ship?

[Oppalopa]

Lots here are making the assumption that whoever was responsible for the boys was not there. I don't know if they were or were not. None posting knows either. In many cases when someone is drowning it is not obvious. They don't make noise or thrash about. They are suffocating so they are quiet.

Thank you maybe you will open up a few uncompassionate minds but I doubt it reading these comments you can tell how these people vote. :rolleyes: