Why no life guards??

[Karysa]

Not selling UBP to parents of small children could also be considered. Drinking +++ and watching small children do not go hand in hand in my book and is not a good example for little kids IMHO.

[katyjeka]

Dh and myself love the UBP, when cruising alone. Would not even consider it when traveling with our girls. Maybe they should have a naughty room for parents who behave irresponsibility. The kids could have fun in the kids club,where at least they'll be safe.

[katyjeka]

We enjoy the UBP,but would never consider it while cruising with our girls. Why not have a naughty room for irresponsible parents,while the children spend the days in the kids crew,where at least they'd be safe. Let them out at the end of the cruise, the kids could claim them.

[katyjeka]

Sorry about the double post, phone cut off.

[katyjeka]

Sorry about the two posts, phones acting strange.

[Karysa]

As much as we love cruising with our kids, I've often thought maybe cruiselines should be adults only. When i joined the message boards years ago, I was upset with the people who seemed to always "pick on families". Well, several cruises later, I shifted sides. It maddens me when we see several young kids alone everywhere in the ship. Danger is around every corner, and regardless of people's opinions ships are not childproofed. We were on the Dawn seven years ago, when an alarm code was announced. Turned out they thought "something" had managed to make it overboard. We watched the "responsible" parents in a state of panic, why, they had no idea where their children were. We had no worries, because we were playing shuffleboard with ours. Guess who, five hours later,could not have told you where their kids were. The same so called responsible parents that had been in a panic. I judge because I'm tired of people coming up with excuses for lazy parents who feel the world is responsible for their kids. A lifeguard would not solve this problem, however, raising the cost may convince people to cruise without the kids, or not cruise at all. I don't care if whomever was watching those boys looked away for a moment. They should have been in the water with them, period. People need to quit feeling sorry for the adult who decided something else was more important then going with the boys INTO the water. This was 100% preventable.

 

I hear what your saying but my biggest concern is for the safty of the kids and not to place blame. I can't help but think that the cruiselines could do a better job helping to keep children on the ship safe. In an amusement parks there are height restrictions for rides. In playgrounds these days the equipment has to meet high standards as does the landing material used. Chuckie Cheese has security at the enterance of their restaurants and uses stamps I believe to match adults to children when they are leaving. I don't think that most cruiselines do enough. I like what i have heard about Princess Cruiselines efforts and manpower used to help keep the kids safe and I like that Disney has hired lifeguards.

[newbe dave]

Parents parenting would be a great goal. Suggestions???

 

I appreciate your concern for safety. But my opinion is that if the parents are not concerned about safety as shown by them not watching their children, why should I be? Or anyone else.

 

I know it sounds heartless and I don't mean it to be. But I will follow the lead of the parents. If they don't care, ...

[Karysa]

I appreciate your concern for safety. But my opinion is that if the parents are not concerned about safety as shown by them not watching their children, why should I be? Or anyone else.

 

I know it sounds heartless and I don't mean it to be. But I will follow the lead of the parents. If they don't care, ...

 

I do get where you are coming from but deaths of children effect so many more people than the poor child themself and the parents. There are siblings, grandparents, friends, classmates and the folks that wittness the tragedy and try and help out just for starters. My daughters lost 3 friends by the time they were 16. Two were close friends. One of those was an accident. That one was the hardest on them.

[Karysa]

By not using the pool deck at all while on board if the parent thinks it is such a danger zone that is beyond their ability to control their children properly.

 

And i'm HOPING that any child that should need this type of supervision wouldn't have randomly wandered off so far from parental supervision as to find their way up or down stairs or an elevator to the pool then climb in and fall in. A lot of things to align in that scenario....

 

Also may be an indicator a cruise is not the right vacation for you and your family quite yet.

 

Use other amenities and alternate elevators to bypass when needed.

 

Parents who let small children wander off ( not talking for 1 second out of sight here), are not making the correct decisions so your plan does not deal with keeping the most vulnerable children out of the pool.

[rvsullivan]

Karysa, you continually point out the Disney has lifeguards. Not exactly all the facts. They have one lifeguard at family pools only and only when the pool is "officially" open. They have none so far at Castaway Cay, which is a very large beach.

The total responsibility for care of the children is with the parents. Whoever they choose to watch over them is they're choice. You, I, the cruise lines or the government are not the babysitters. The only way to eliminate this risk is to eliminate all pools on all ships "just in case". This is not about blame, this is about who is responsible for what happened. The only person/persons responsible are the care givers. Someone took them to the pool, sad but true.

It's easy to say, they could have been distracted for 30 seconds and it's not their fault. However, if there were lifeguards and one was distracted for 30 seconds, who would be blamed?? My guess is the lifeguard! Same thing.

[Oppalopa]

We would not be paying for a lifeguard. The cruise line would be paying. Whether the cruise line would increase the cruise fare, absorb the cost out of profits or cut back some other area is up to them.

 

The cruise line should hire lifeguards as part of the general safety of all passengers, not just small children. They should also enforce pool rules (and pool etiquette).

I agree

[H&J]

Uhhh no

Customers pay all the bills.

The problem with having a lifeguard is the tacit acceptance of liability on the company's part. The costs associated with THAT would put things out of reach.

 

They should NOT have lifeguards.

 

Luddite, I don't always agree with you but in this instance, you are correct, it would be a tacit acceptance of liability (on the part of NCL).

 

I add that it would be a tacit abrogation of responsibility of the parent or guardian, along with the release from the legal responsibilities and duties of the respective parent(s) or guardian. It doesn't take "a village to raise a child" (to quote hillary); instead it takes responsible parents (or guardian).

 

I don't want to subsidize the parents of childen (by employing life guards) with my fare dollars. If parents or others want life guards, let THEM pay for it. Don't force me to pay for a service which has NO possible causal connection to my vacation.

[sharecruises]

Quote feature not working right now ...

but ...to Charles

 

not so simple to hire lifeguards....as stated so many different pools, water venues...."kids only"?? well good luck keeping them out as people don't follow rules....plus the real danger is that 1) parents would have false sense security and let the lifeguards babysit and 2) God forbid another drowning - then huge lawsuits as with lifeguards they are liable...this could truly raise fares, and change the way cruise is run - like closed pools, short hours, clear the decks

 

To Katya - it seems to me you are simply afraid to be on a cruise with a tragedy, the odds are pretty much in your favor since millions cruise

far more likely to see a medivac for an older person - sad but yes not so devastating as child tragedy

 

however....the cost is not viable IMHO - and not do -able -Disney is already more expensive..and it appears they only have limited lifeguard coverage anyhow

 

Chances are kids can get into other trouble - predators, slip and fall, fall down stairs, over a railing , fall into the atrium etc, goofing around and get hurt......kid security would help to prevent that. A system of finding the parent of any kid alone under? say 13 or? A good curfew for all under 18, and warnings to the parents.

 

The cost of kid security would be minimal and would NOT leave cruise lines open to liabilty = they are there to enforce rules not to keep kids from drowning. However in the long run they could prevent drowning (and other accidents) simply by enforcing the "no unattended child" rule.

[declansdad]

So it's the size of the pool not the depth that makes you think that cruiseship pools don't need any lifeguards or segregation, is that correct? So even a 40 ft x 20 ft pool that is 5 ft deep should be out in the middle of the pool deck even now after the recent tragedies?

 

This question is open to all BTW.:)

 

 

I don't think it is just the size but rather the activities that are happening in the pool. I community pool is typically much larger bit it also has much more activities going on. The cruise ship pools that I have been in have been nothing more than people soaking and paddling around. There is little to no swimming, no diving, maybe some jumping but that's about it.

[Karysa]

I should add cruiselines when speaking of Disney to be clearer. They have recently hired life guards. I think that this is a good decision and time will tell if it truly is.

[e2011]

In general and not speculating at all on this tragedy, I think if we put emotions aside there is always a benefit to adding a layer of safety at any pool regardless of if it is on land or sea. Life guards cannot take the place of a watchful adult but can be a good addition of another set of eyes on the pool. They can also stop rough housing and running on wet pool decks. They are also trained in CPR in case of an emergency. I have seen many times loved ones freeze up and forget their CPR training (if they even have any) when a family member is having a crisis. I got into an argument with a troll on another board so let me make this clear that I believe parents are 100% responsible for their kids. I also think that adding a layer of safety is well worth the small cost to the cruise ship and life guards will not affect the enjoyment of anyone else on the cruise in any way. I also know that life guards cannot prevent all drownings. Not saying that at all. But if they save one child a year it is well worth the addition cost. I am going to have a conversation with a Senator & family friend to see if it is even possible from a legal and enforcement point of view to have the Coast Guard require this on all US ported cruise ships. It may be impossible but its worth at least talking about.

Edited February 9, 2014 by e2011

[slyfox0113]

It is a terrible tragedy what has occurred on the Breakaway. First I want to say I am a parent. Second I want to say I am responsible for the well being of my child. If I take my children on vacation I should know where they are and what they are doing. I should not be sunbathing in one area while my children are running around where they do not belong and most of all I should not have the expectation someone will watch out for their well being. I say this because I was on a cruise in November where two children approximately 10-12 years old were running around the adult pool area using the lounges like trampolines, cannonballs into the pool intentionally trying to land ON people, running along the top area of the pool kicking water into people faces. We (about 4 of us) watched this go on for approximately an hour, no parents ever showed up, so we stopped one of the children as she was ready to run and kick water at us once again and reprimanded her. Low and behold five minutes later two angry parents appear that we had the audacity to reprimand their children. Well they got blasted by the people who their children were tormenting for the past hour. In the end the father made the one child come and apologize to everyone she had abused for the last hour. I know there is a lot of controversy about the lifeguard issue, but from what I have witnessed not only here at the pool but elsewhere on the ship from unsupervised children I don't think lifeguards would really solve the problem. In the end I still believe we all need to follow the rules all over the ship and parents take care of your children don't expect everyone else to do that for you while you enjoy your vacation. Don't misunderstand I am not saying no one was supervising those two children. None of us know the entire story and I am sure the parents are devastated but everything is not the fault of the cruise line. I am sure they are looking into how this happened and do their best to make sure it doesn't happen again but we all have to do our part also.

[Markanddonna]

I recall sitting on the pool ledge of the adult pool watching the kids go in and out often with the parents' encouragement. A much larger pool for all was right next store. There was a clear sign that it was adults only and getting the kids out required that some irritated adult who wanted the rules enforced would need to leave the pool and find a frustrated staff member to get them out. I watched this cycle occur every 5-10 minutes. Bottom line (and spoken as a teacher of young children): many parents do not care to follow the rules when it comes to their kids and are more determined to have a good time their own way following their own rules. I think adding lifeguards would be a folly as they would spend more of their time yelling and enforcing than watching out for drowning victims. You folks who haven't seen this type of parent would be shocked by the arrogance and disregard for others.

[slyfox0113]

Agree. There is a children's program available for those parents who don't want to supervise their own children. I believe the program has different age groups also, so there is really no excuse for unsupervised children. Either enroll them in the program or watch them yourself, after all you decided to bring them on your vacation.

[cruiseapril]

IMO, an incident of near drowning and 2 incidents of drowning (of children) on 3 different cruise lines suggests that there is a problem around cruise ship pools.

 

We have noticed, for over ten years, that children are often not well supervised or well behaved around the family cruise line pools. This has to stop before any other children drown. The children need to be well supervised and well behaved around the pools and around the entire ship.

 

The cruise lines offer pools to their customers and they must enforce rules about parental supervision around those pools. (Parental supervision is mentioned in most cruise documents.) If the parents are not supervising and keeping their children safe, the cruise line has to do something. They cannot allow children to run wild.

 

Determined staff and crew can enforce rules.

[cle-guy]

Excellent point!!!! How many guards would concurrently be needed to be paid on most ships? 5? 8? Or should we just have the parents actually parent?

 

Triple the number to account for safe working hours and days off.

[cle-guy]

I should add cruiselines when speaking of Disney to be clearer. They have recently hired life guards. I think that this is a good decision and time will tell if it truly is.

 

I think A big issue of hiring lifeguards is in certification, training and liability.

 

Disney is a business designed around kids, so they will always go further than typical businesses in catering to the special needs of large numbers of children.

 

Also disney has dozens of hotels with dozens of pools, dozens of waterparks and lakes and lagoons where they have lifeguards. As a corporation, they have great infrastructure in place with regards to lifeguarding and pool safety already that's easy to deploy to their cruise line to maintain standards and such.

 

Cruise lines, have far less of that specialized internal infrastructure designed specifically around swimming pool safety. I bet Disney has some sort of entire department overseeing lifeguards and water safety.

[Charles4515]

I think A big issue of hiring lifeguards is in certification, training and liability.

 

Disney is a business designed around kids, so they will always go further than typical businesses in catering to the special needs of large numbers of children.

 

Also disney has dozens of hotels with dozens of pools, dozens of waterparks and lakes and lagoons where they have lifeguards. As a corporation, they have great infrastructure in place with regards to lifeguarding and pool safety already that's easy to deploy to their cruise line to maintain standards and such.

 

Cruise lines, have far less of that specialized internal infrastructure designed specifically around swimming pool safety. I bet Disney has some sort of entire department overseeing lifeguards and water safety.

 

The Disney Cruise lifeguards are contracted out from a company that specailizes in training and providing lifeguards. If the other cruise lines put lifeguards on their ships they would surely do the same.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Charles4515

[sharecruises]

The Disney Cruise lifeguards are contracted out from a company that specailizes in training and providing lifeguards. If the other cruise lines put lifeguards on their ships they would surely do the same.

 

They apparently are NOT at all pools all the time .

 

Charles you have not responded to the fact that lifeguards will raise the liability and insurance costs for the cruise lines - and may do no good as parents could use them as "babysitters"

 

not to mention - there are other hazards on board

 

Several "empowered" (non tipped) Kids security staff to enforce the rules (like on Princess) , a curfew....maybe more rules about age/height of kids in the deep pools - that would go a long way to helping.

Lifeguards won't stop kids from a hot tub/sauna predator, or stop them from falling over a railing or down stairs, or slip and fall while running etc

I saw a young teen on Carnival who was fall down drunk = in the teen club - he passed out -= we only saw him cause his new pals came running out of there at 2 am....we called security and they got him out of there, got medical staff up

 

there will be other accidents and incidents....lifeguards won't solve it

 

Enforcing some rules....the first time a family is "denied" use of the pool....or put off the ship - then you will see some changes IMHO

[newbe dave]

I do get where you are coming from but deaths of children effect so many more people than the poor child themself and the parents. There are siblings, grandparents, friends, classmates and the folks that wittness the tragedy and try and help out just for starters. My daughters lost 3 friends by the time they were 16. Two were close friends. One of those was an accident. That one was the hardest on them.

 

Agree 100%. All the more reason parents should be ever vigilant, especially when traveling.