DANCING ON THE QM2 -- September Update

[brigittetom]

Thank you very much....I can picture that on the dance floor.

[Strictly Ballroom]

Thank you for the info.

 

That's a bit more than my lessons cost me here. Interesting structure though. . . only 30 minutes? I'm used to a single being 45 minutes. That said I always take at least doubles, which is 90 minutes. I had been training 15-20 hours a week, but then my body said no more, I developed stress fractures (and competed on them not realizing it), and I've had to chill out. Of course, competing three different styles (Rhythm, Smooth and Latin) those hours didn't seem like enough :( I had just almost just broken into the top 20 on the World Pro-Am Dancesport Series before getting sidelined too. :(

 

Obviously, I won't be training to that level on the QE. It will be a little too cost prohibitive to do three of their lessons per sea day. Not when there's so many other costs I have to budget for.

[Slow Foxtrot]

It's my experience that if you are a competent dancer fully conversant with the correct use of heels and toes, contra body movement and all the rest of it then you can learn a great deal from instructional videos/DVDs. Many of these are by ex World Champions and top professionals so the step by step tuition is impeccable. What's more you can learn from these at a fraction of the cost of private lessons! Not only that, if you do forget anything you simply play the video/DVD again and refresh your memory.

 

Of course, if you are a novice or beginner then private lessons are a much quicker way to improve your dancing. And you don't need a top professional with fancy prices to get you going.

 

It helps, of course, if you have regular access to a dance floor so that you can put it all into practice. In the UK many couples hire the local village hall/church hall/ school hall or whatever. If you can't practise what you have learned then lessons are often money wasted. We are fortunate in having a small dance floor at our home and this has been a very useful and pleasurable asset.

 

Foxy

[tangoll]

It's my experience that if you are a competent dancer fully conversant with the correct use of heels and toes, contra body movement and all the rest of it then you can learn a great deal from instructional videos/DVDs. Many of these are by ex World Champions and top professionals so the step by step tuition is impeccable. What's more you can learn from these at a fraction of the cost of private lessons! Not only that, if you do forget anything you simply play the video/DVD again and refresh your memory.

 

Foxy

 

A very good video of a professional couple doing a slow waltz, then rumba, and samba is this one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nryQDutklY8&feature=relmfu

 

In the rumba, at 1:25 min of the video, the couple do a fan, then followed by hockey stick. In the hockey stick, the lady Anya does a beautiful big left foot step on beat 2, then a turn on her right foot on beat 3, and the back step finishing on beat 4 with her left foot. But most lady instructors in Hong Kong, will teach that the turn in a hockey stick occurs on beat 2, ie on the lady's left foot and off on a 45 degree angle to the lady's left. And I tell them that the reason this move is called a hockey stick is because the hockey stick is long and with the blade curving at the end, and thus, it requires a straight walk at beat 2, and another step into the turn at beat 3. And that's how I permit my lady partner to dance the hockey stick. I won't let them turn on the first step at beat 2, since my left hand is holding onto the lady's right hand, and she can't do an underhand turn when I won't let her.

 

This is the value of a video showing a dance step properly performed and executed.

[Slow Foxtrot]

I was on QM2 last month from NY to Quebec city. As Foxy pointed out, the floor was very crowded during 9:30 to 11 PM. If you go early and if there is no sequence dance, it would not be so bad. We took private lessons from Winfried at 8 AM in the morning, we had the whole floor to ourselves.

 

That's interesting. What dance was he teaching you? Did he have Ilona with him? Were you happy with the tuition? Are you an experienced dancer or fairly new to dancing? Your info would be useful to future passengers.

 

Foxy

[nez168]

Taking lessons from Wilfried and Ilona was the highlight of my cruise. Wilfried learned dancing in UK and competed in local completion all the time. That was why they were always introduced as champions They used to own dance studio in Germany and Spain. Recently, they decided to work for Cunard for a year ( or more? )

 

For my lesson, I danced my routine and asked him for corrections. For example, in Waltz, I would start with

Natural Spin Turn

Turning Lock to the right (2 times)

Running Weave

Tumble Turn

Left Whisk….

He corrected me for shaping, timing, foot position, etc. He said all these are the little things that separate the average dancer from the champions. I was so impressed that I ended up taking lesson every morning from them. Ilona was there most of the time. She would show my wife the posture and sometime danced with me. It was $65 for 45 min and well worth it for me. I would like to see if we can book another cruise with them next year.

[Slow Foxtrot]

Taking lessons from Wilfried and Ilona was the highlight of my cruise. Wilfried learned dancing in UK and competed in local completion all the time. That was why they were always introduced as champions They used to own dance studio in Germany and Spain. Recently, they decided to work for Cunard for a year ( or more? )

 

For my lesson, I danced my routine and asked him for corrections. For example, in Waltz, I would start with

Natural Spin Turn

Turning Lock to the right (2 times)

Running Weave

Tumble Turn

Left Whisk….

He corrected me for shaping, timing, foot position, etc. He said all these are the little things that separate the average dancer from the champions. I was so impressed that I ended up taking lesson every morning from them. Ilona was there most of the time. She would show my wife the posture and sometime danced with me. It was $65 for 45 min and well worth it for me. I would like to see if we can book another cruise with them next year.

 

Are you practising a waltz routine just for social dancing or for competition?

Obviously you are dancing International style. Assuming NJ is New Jersey do you find that International style dancing is popular in America? We get some conflicting posts on these forums implying that it's very much in the minority. And some posters imply that the Quickstep is seldom performed in American dance venues. Is that correct? Forgive the questions, but having never danced in America we British dancers don't know too much about it - just as American dancers know next to nothing about Sequence Dancing. And neither do most of the dance-hosts on the QM2.

 

The lessons with Wilfreid & Ilona Deikers seem very interesting. We were impressed with their dance demonstrations and it's hard to believe that Wilfried is 66 years old! Nothing like regular dancing to keep you young and fit. Well, nearly nothing :)

 

Foxy

[nez168]

I practice dancing for exercise. My wife is not interested in competition. Many couples I met in the dance studio practiced for competition. Most of the international style dance studios in New Jersey are owned by champions like Andrei and Elena, Katusha and Gary McDonald. There are many young east europeans who are taking competitions and teaching as profession. There are also older folks like me who have no hope to become champions, but just take it as hobby. Most dance studio are open for about 2-3 nights of social dancing. In west coast, it is more popular.

International style dance is really not fit for social dancing. Quick steps are not played as often as other ballroom dance in US. I have noticed that in QM, British dancers seemed to dance QS with ease, while American dancers danced like a run away train! None of the self respecting US dancer would not complete a QS without a “run”.

Love to learn sequence dance as people seemed to enjoy it. I checked online after the cruise and found out that there are more than one routine for waltz. Is there a standard routine for each dance?

[Slow Foxtrot]

....International style dance is really not fit for social dancing. Quick steps are not played as often as other ballroom dance in US. I have noticed that in QM, British dancers seemed to dance QS with ease, while American dancers danced like a run away train! None of the self respecting US dancer would not complete a QS without a “run”.

Love to learn sequence dance as people seemed to enjoy it. I checked online after the cruise and found out that there are more than one routine for waltz. Is there a standard routine for each dance?

 

The fact is Nez that there are hundreds of dance venues in the UK and they ALL dance International style! And quicksteps are one of the most popular dances. As you say, at social dances we dance quickstep with comparative ease. The quickstep up to Gold medal standard is a snappy but smooth dance that is not too difficult to master in its basic form. In competition, however, the dancers run and bob up and down like demented dervishes and, to my mind, some of it looks ridiculous.

 

As for sequence dancing; yes, there is a standard set of steps for each dance so there is no overtaking and the floor should keep moving smoothly.

And there are about half a dozen different popular waltzes and even different tangos and quicksteps. Most UK social dancers probably know about a dozen of the most popular sequence dances and these are played at most venues. Sequence dancing is often popular with older dancers who are not really capable or conversant with the discipline needed for proper ballroom dancing. Hence correct heels and toes etc are not always in evidence. Nevertheless, when competent ballroom dancers join in with the sequence dancing they make it look much more graceful. Many of the best social-dance venues in the UK (such as Blackpool Tower Ballroom) feature a mixture of ballroom, latin, and sequence. That keeps everyone happy and you take a break if you don't know a particular dance. Incidentally, sequence dancing is popular in Australia where it is known as New Vogue.

 

Foxy

[nez168]

The fact is Nez that there are hundreds of dance venues in the UK and they ALL dance International style!

 

As for sequence dancing; yes, there is a standard set of steps for each dance so there is no overtaking and the floor should keep moving smoothly.

And there are about half a dozen different popular waltzes and even different tangos and quicksteps.

 

Foxy

 

So, let me rephrase my statement. Unlike you guys in UK, the international style dance many people learned in US are not fit for social dance. One reason maybe because most of the “good” teachers are former or current competitive dancers. They can only teach what they know best. In fact, some of my friends complained that if they did not compete, their teacher would ignore them.

 

Back to sequence dance, Foxy, can you suggest names of the popular dance ( I saw Sally Ann Chacha, Blue Angel Rumba from You tube). I may be able to pick up the routine and join the dance on my next cruise.

 

Nez

[Slow Foxtrot]

So, let me rephrase my statement. Unlike you guys in UK, the international style dance many people learned in US are not fit for social dance.

 

Back to sequence dance, Foxy, can you suggest names of the popular dance ( I saw Sally Ann Chacha, Blue Angel Rumba from You tube). I may be able to pick up the routine and join the dance on my next cruise.

 

Nez

 

As mentioned before; if you learn International style in the USA then you will be fine if you dance in the UK or on P & O ships (Oriana & Aurora) or on Cunard when passengers are predominantly British. I'm presuming that in your first sentence above you meant 'not fit for social dance IN THE USA'.

 

The Sequence dances that most people learn when starting Sequence dancing are: Mayfair Quickstep ....Square Tango ....Rumba One ....Melody Foxtrot .... the two most popular waltzes are probably the Emmerdale Waltz and the Catherine Waltz. There are dozens more but if you know the above dances then they are sure to be played at most venues. As you mentioned, the Sally Anne Cha Cha and the Blue Angel Rumba are another couple of popular dances.

 

 

Here's a couple called Shannah and Phil demonstrating the Catherine Waltz.

They do others as well. The music leaves something to be desired but you can see the steps quite clearly. Their demos are fine for learning a dance.

However, as always on Youtube, there are other people on Youtube who post dance clips that are hopeless .. you have to be careful what you watch. But good luck anyway!! Incidentally, all the dances above were played at the Sequence Dancing sessions held on the Queen Mary 2 last month.

 

Foxy

[nez168]

Thanks, Foxy. Sequence dance will be on my agenda.

 

BTW, for those who heard me raving about the dance instructors on QM2, Wilfried and Ilona, and never met them. This is their website

 

http://18892.test-my-website.de/webdiekers/deutsch/video.htm

 

For a couple in their 60's, their Viennese Waltz is effortless.

 

Nez

[Strictly Ballroom]

Okay... wow. I had a totally odd perception of what sequence dancing was. I guess I assumed it was something more like country line dancing. So. . . this is couples dancing the same steps?

 

After watching that, I think I'll either be hoping for a dance host that can lead American Smooth, or I'll end up just dancing Latin. That waltz is so vastly different from the ballroom dancing that I do. At least that's how I feel watching it. That's way outside of my comfort level.

 

I really don't know the first thing about Standard, since we haven't got a teacher at our studio who teaches it (not for lack of trying, just immigration refuses to cooperate and allow us to bring someone).

 

I'm not in this video, but it gives a good overview of the Silver Smooth type patterns that I know how to dance:

[BobBranst]

After watching that, I think I'll either be hoping for a dance host that can lead American Smooth, or I'll end up just dancing Latin. That waltz is so vastly different from the ballroom dancing that I do. At least that's how I feel watching it. That's way outside of my comfort level.

I wouldn't be to concerned about it. There will likely be a lot of Americans on board and 99% will be dancing American Smooth right along side our European friends who are dancing International Style. Just keep your eyes open while on the dance floor and follow the line of dance.

 

Bob

[Dancer Bob]

Strictly, do you use DVIDA or USISTD syllabus? There's some commonality at the bronze level you can use as a basis (eg left and right turns C in waltz). I think you'll find most of the hosts are American but can't perform at the silver level, and there's rarely room anyway.

Allow me to throw gasoline on the flames by saying dancing "socially" should be about floorcraft, floorcraft, and more floorcraft, not routines whether American or International. All of the videos, I would ask "how well would this work in a crowded Queens Room?" I consider good technique as anything that makes me easy to dance with. And I'm willing to adjust to my partner. Happy partners = more dancing; unhappy partners = no more dancing.

On an entirely different topic- I'm on Oriana in November, QE in December, in Southampton a couple of days before and after- foxy or anyone, can you suggest dancing venues?

[Slow Foxtrot]

...Allow me to throw gasoline on the flames by saying dancing "socially" should be about floorcraft, floorcraft, and more floorcraft, not routines whether American or International.

I'm on Oriana in November, QE in December, in Southampton a couple of days before and after - Foxy or anyone, can you suggest dancing venues?

 

Dancer Bob is absolutely right about floorcraft being the essential element of social dancing. Dancing 'routines' is really a non-starter on tight social floors such as on cruise ships. It allows for no change of direction and a complete disregard of other dancers. Routines should be reserved for large dance floors with plenty of room.

 

As regards dance venues in Southampton; we live about 200 miles away from Southampton so have no knowledge of dance venues in this immediate area. However, if you type 'Southampton Ballroom Dancing' into Google it will bring up a number of suggestions which you can follow up. Or maybe some dancer from that area can advise. Good luck!

 

Foxy

[Norfolk Brit]

Dancing 'routines' is really a non-starter on tight social floors such as on cruise ships. It allows for no change of direction and a complete disregard of other dancers. Routines should be reserved for large dance floors with plenty of room.

 

Foxy

 

But I've been practising the Birdie Song for MONTHS:eek:.

 

As I have complete disregard for other dancers and no plans to change direction, though it's quite possible this may happen anyway, can I still strut my stuff?

 

Sir Martin

[pepperrn]

But I've been practising the Birdie Song for MONTHS:eek:. As I have complete disregard for other dancers and no plans to change direction, though it's quite possible this may happen anyway, can I still strut my stuff? Sir Martin

Sir Martin doing the Birdie Song on the QM2 Queens Room dance floor :) ... what an image... :cool:

 

(Much more fun than all this "every sequin sewn on by hand" regimented "fixed grin" slow-slow-quick-quick-slow Victor Sylvester ballroom stuff... ;) )

 

(Interested to read you've "no plans to change direction" :D )

[Norfolk Brit]

Thank you for your support, which may be needed once I get under way.

 

I have, indeed, no plans to change direction. However having no plans to change direction and actually not changing direction are two entirely different things, and it is beginning to dawn upon me that this dancey lark is not quite as easy as it appears, particularly with four legs and a tail flapping about.

 

Of course, my most serious concern is that the orchestra may not get the tempo of the Birdie Song quite right.:eek:

 

Sir Martin

[pepperrn]

... and it is beginning to dawn upon me that this dancey lark is not quite as easy as it appears, particularly with four legs and a tail flapping about

When I've seen ballroom dancing on the TV I'm sure I've seen "four legs and tails flapping about", esp in the waltz and quick-step :D .

Of course, my most serious concern is that the orchestra may not get the tempo of the Birdie Song quite right.:eek: Sir Martin

I can understand your concerns regarding that "score"... ;) .

[Strictly Ballroom]

Strictly, do you use DVIDA or USISTD syllabus?

 

Pro-Am competitions here are by and large NDCA. Which utilizes DVIDA, some Fred Astaire and Arthur Murray as well. I really don't know all the ins and outs of it, to be honest. My teacher knows far more than I do. Much of our American Style choreography is done by Ron Montez, who had a hand in helping create the DVIDA syllabus, so we mostly bow to his vastly superior knowledge on the subject. :D

 

For International Latin, we of course follow the ISTD syllabus. It's interesting because there is a lot more allowed in bronze rhythm than bronze Latin.

 

ETA: I think where it is easy to become confused is that some steps are named differently in American Style. For instance a New Yorker is referred to as a Crossover Break. Why this is the case? I actually have no idea! By left and right turns C in waltz, would that be the same as natural turns and reverse turns? Or are we talking about a simple basic box?