Noro outbreak on Caribbean princess

[Mom33]

When a ship goes to Code Red with an NLV outbreak, the crew loses far more than a day's tips.

A high percentage of the passengers decide not to tip at all - blaming the crew for the problems. This substantially reduces the salaries of the crew.

The tipped crew, who normally work 13 hours maximum per day, are forced to work much longer hours. We get paid a monthly salary which already includes any overtime. That salary does not go up when the working hours increase.

Many tipped crew and their management are eligible to receive a performance bonus based on guest ratings and comments.

Guest ratings and comments take a very negative turn when the ship is in Code Red, resulting in zero performance bonuses.

 

Thanks for your input to this conversation. Perhaps it will open some eyes on this thread and on CC.

[need2cruisesoon]

There is a difference between spread and origination. Once onboard, even staff with the best intentions can aid in spread. That said, once the ship has been sanitized, a very large portion of the time, outbreaks will be started by passengers.

 

Are you a doctor or understand communicable diseases? Please cite a scientific reference that supports your statement.

 

Please know that most if not all crew (kitchen staff, food handlers) come from third world countries to work on these ships. Now, I am no way being negative about any person that works on these ships but washing hands and understanding basic hygiene standards is not a priority for many. I understand they are trained but who is policing the galley during busy dinner times when the kitchen staff need to be compliant of safe food handling procedures?

[baldercash]

Some ports seem to be more prone to Noro out breaks then others.

There were a lot of ships came down with it when Charleston was used as a launch port.

That city and it's University dorms were often battling out breaks.

 

 

An interesting article.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2013/01/24/new-norovirus-bug-from-australia/1861969/

[Loonbeam]

Trained as an EMT, got certified on facility sanitation to run a summer camp and have conversed extensively with a family member who is an epidemiologist on this topic recently and in the past.

 

That said, its not a matter of science as statistics. In the process of a full sanitization, assuming the ship is following CDC guidelines, the crew is screened (usually temperature checks). In addition, ill crew members are quarantined and failing to report it means you lose your job. And if nothing else, as part of the sanitation process you get quite a bit of a cleaning yourself.

 

In contrast, after the ship is cleaned, 3000+ passengers, many of whom have just passed through the air transportation system and stayed in the same hotels as the people who just got off the contaminated ship are going to board. Many of these will not report gastro symptoms for fear of losing their cruise.

 

Of those two groups, which is the most likely vector for recontamination?

 

Where the crew members come in to play is in severity, not so much origination. An asymptomatic crew member has the potential to effect a greater spread of the virus than other passengers, based on their position. It is entirely possible for one crew member in food service to cause the outbreak, but that's different from origination.

 

Let's do a hypothetical. The Caribbean Princess was sanitized on Saturday with no Pax aboard. Assuming everything went well, the viral load on the ship should be minimal and we will assume any known sick crew members are quarantined and the terminal cleaned as well.

 

On sunday, 3000 people board. One of these people checked in to a hotel room Saturday night that had been occupied on Friday by someone coming off the ship who had Noro but felt fine the prior wednesday. That person used a drinking glass in the room that was not properly cleaned (or used the phone, TV remote, etc). Passenger B was eating a snack while channel surfing and ingests the virus that Saturday night. 48 hours later - Monday, he doesn't feel well during the evening show, runs to the bathroom and vomits. Before anyone can get a hazmat cleanup in there, another crew member comes in to check towels, does not notice and claps hand to mouth from a bad smell. That crew member also works drink service at the pool during the day. After about 12 hours, they may begin to shed viral particles, even though they are not symptomatic. Assuming there is no code red in effect, the server is handling glasses that many people drink from. Outbreak, probably 1-2 percent of the passengers before its tamped down by code red procedures.

 

In that very plausible scenario, the crew member is the vector but NOT the originator, and more importantly neither the crew member nor the passenger did almost anything wrong (in a perfect world the passenger who vomited would have kept everyone out of the bathroom and notified staff, but if you are feeling like that your first instinct is going to be either medical center or cabin.).

 

BTW, I've seen the washing requirements food staff have to follow and failing to follow them = termination. That is one of the least of my concerns. There are way more robust vectors.

 

 

 

 

 

Are you a doctor or understand communicable diseases? Please cite a scientific reference that supports your statement.

 

Please know that most if not all crew (kitchen staff, food handlers) come from third world countries to work on these ships. Now, I am no way being negative about any person that works on these ships but washing hands and understanding basic hygiene standards is not a priority for many. I understand they are trained but who is policing the galley during busy dinner times when the kitchen staff need to be compliant of safe food handling procedures?

[baldercash]

Are you a doctor or understand communicable diseases? Please cite a scientific reference that supports your statement.

 

Please know that most if not all crew (kitchen staff, food handlers) come from third world countries to work on these ships. Now, I am no way being negative about any person that works on these ships but washing hands and understanding basic hygiene standards is not a priority for many. I understand they are trained but who is policing the galley during busy dinner times when the kitchen staff need to be compliant of safe food handling procedures?

 

I have not done a ships tour of a Princess galley but I have done lots on other lines.

RCCL is very stringent on the food handling and has many procedures and protocols in place to try and prevent Noro.

Ships have their own health inspectors and the Head Chief is always on the prowl for any slips.

Rccl just had a ship down with a major out break it costs the cruise line big money when it happens as staff goes down as noted and it all goes to hell very quickly.

Prevention is the key and they know it and train and enforce it on staff .

Edited February 7, 2014 by baldercash

[baldercash]

Here is a link to a very interesting site that tracks ship board illness.

Not sure how accurate but some one spent a lot of time compiling data.

Data is from 2002 to 2013 considering the increased number of ships and passengers I would say cruise lines are doing as best they can.

 

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/outbreaks2014.html

[fortworther]

instead of all this chatter about cause and effect, does anyone know anything specific about the currently at sea cruise on the CB? thanks!

[baldercash]

The ship docked a day early from it's last cruise and was infected with Noro Princess went through a cleaning and decontamination.

The condition currently at sea is that people are once again sick on the ship from Noro.

Thus the chatter about the cause and effect of Noro.

[Katecat]

No sickness that we heard or saw. Salt and peppers were on the table. Good sign. Means that it is lower than an orange alert. Should be no problems.

 

Have fun and WASH, WASH, WASH your hands and try not to touch anything, including your face. We did and it definitely paid off.

 

Karen

[crackupforlaughs]

well, so much for washing and sanitizing. Daughter came down with it (a "light" version) on Thurs last week on CB Western Caribbean, and hubby came down with the violent version last night. We brought (and used all the time!) hospital grade wipes, noro-killing Clorox hand sanitizer, Lysol, etc. and kept our hands washed.

 

 

No clue where they picked it up, but it was toward the end of the cruise, so shore excursion?

 

We got a clue that something was Wed night when the ship was late leaving Belize, our steward said his supervisor advised them to use high concentrations of cleaner (why aren't they using this anyway?), and the buffets were all of a sudden having a glove-wearing people handing out plates and utensils, s&p shakers off the table, no more self-serve water, no more pens offered at Bingo, etc.

 

Beware of those tongs in the buffet or anywhere else. One can get a false sense of germ security after getting sanitizer at the entrance. The guy going through the buffet in front of me wiped his nose with his palm, used the tongs, put food on his plate and then started eating it with his fingers (putting part of them in his mouth with the food) and then used the next set of tongs, etc. If I had just relied upon the sanitizer from the beginning of the line it would not have done any good if this guy had noro. I'm not a germaphobe, but I am when it comes to noro!

Edited February 23, 2014 by crackupforlaughs
add info

[danielsumner]

I agree. I bet it's the crew that were the first cases on this most recent outbreak.

 

Same Crew, Sick Crew = Sick Passengers, Sick Passengers = Sick Crew. It's a never ending circle.

[Sailin' Shoes]

well, so much for washing and sanitizing. Daughter came down with it (a "light" version) on Thurs last week on CB Western Caribbean, and hubby came down with the violent version last night. We brought (and used all the time!) hospital grade wipes, noro-killing Clorox hand sanitizer, Lysol, etc. and kept our hands washed.

 

 

No clue where they picked it up, but it was toward the end of the cruise, so shore excursion?

 

We got a clue that something was Wed night when the ship was late leaving Belize, our steward said his supervisor advised them to use high concentrations of cleaner (why aren't they using this anyway?), and the buffets were all of a sudden having a glove-wearing people handing out plates and utensils, s&p shakers off the table, no more self-serve water, no more pens offered at Bingo, etc.

 

Beware of those tongs in the buffet or anywhere else. One can get a false sense of germ security after getting sanitizer at the entrance. The guy going through the buffet in front of me wiped his nose with his palm, used the tongs, put food on his plate and then started eating it with his fingers (putting part of them in his mouth with the food) and then used the next set of tongs, etc. If I had just relied upon the sanitizer from the beginning of the line it would not have done any good if this guy had noro. I'm not a germaphobe, but I am when it comes to noro!

 

saw some real yahoos on my 2/8 cruise but after day 2 the code yellow was relaxed and you could get peanuts/barmix in the bars again. i would never use the buffet though, people were hacking a lung the one and only time i tried it, on departure day and it was my last. never went back, and there is no need to go anyway so i often wonder why low end cruisers love those places?

[AE_Collector]

People use the tongs and then lay them ACROSS the food. Does this make any sense at all?

 

Terry

[CharlesOK]

This should be a DEAD link. I sailed on the 2/8 on the CB. She was cleaned and cleaned again the week before, which was the week after the outbreak. There was no NORO that we were aware of on the 2/8 to 2/15 on the CB. If there is news of a new outbreak lets hear it. Old news serves no one and makes folks apprehensive without need.

[crackupforlaughs]

We were on the 2/15 cruise on CB out of Houston. Daughter came down with it Wed pm/Thurs a.m and hubby badly on Friday night. So, it is still active. While the ship may not have made any formal announcement, I did take my daughter to the medical center and they said they were having an increase in cases. As said in my previous link, the s&p shakers were all of a sudden removed from the horizon court tables, "greeters" at the buffets were now giving out utensils and plates and that was the only way you could get them (at least Wed night) and they were insisting tghat people use the sanitizer (which they should have done before, but I witnessed one person get really mad at the poor steward, and as noted in my previous post, given how people contaminate the tongs, makes the sanitizer almost useless), no pens handed out at Bingo any more, steward said cleaning solution was changed and that the crew had formal meetings about keeping it contained. The medical crew also said they were trying hard to keep it contained. We disembarked late since hubby was still ill, and we saw the biohazard bags and crew with masks cleaning. So, unfortunately, noro is not yet dead on the CB (nor anywhere else probably... it is highly, highly contagious).

 

Oh, we are still in Houston and just got off the ship yesterday.

Edited February 23, 2014 by crackupforlaughs

[Katecat]

This should be a DEAD link. I sailed on the 2/8 on the CB. She was cleaned and cleaned again the week before, which was the week after the outbreak. There was no NORO that we were aware of on the 2/8 to 2/15 on the CB. If there is news of a new outbreak lets hear it. Old news serves no one and makes folks apprehensive without need.

 

I disagree and we too, were on the Feb 8 cruise. People need be aware.

 

Thanks for the previous post today. Knowledge is the best medicine.