Ukraine/Crimea

[Julessmiles]

Well,we decided that waiting for Thomsons to make a command decision and either offer us our deposit back or change of Cruise was not likely to happen.

 

We have literally,jumped ship and transferred to the Arctic Affair cruise on the Spirit.We had to pay £100 admin,car parking at Newcastle and lost our AI but,the Cruise is a £1000 cheaper, so even if we drink like a fish we will still perhaps not reach the cost of the Crimea Cruise.So glad we grasped the nettle and did this as we can now look forward to our Cruise with excitement instead of anger.

Mark.

 

 

I think you have done the right thing; we would in your position; for some of that were due to go to Egypt last year; they weren't even told their new itinerary until they boarded!

[happy v]

Well,we decided that waiting for Thomsons to make a command decision and either offer us our deposit back or change of Cruise was not likely to happen.

 

We have literally,jumped ship and transferred to the Arctic Affair cruise on the Spirit.We had to pay £100 admin,car parking at Newcastle and lost our AI but,the Cruise is a £1000 cheaper, so even if we drink like a fish we will still perhaps not reach the cost of the Crimea Cruise.So glad we grasped the nettle and did this as we can now look forward to our Cruise with excitement instead of anger.

Mark.

 

I think you've made a wise choice. The Atlantic Affair sounds fantastic, and you can always go to the Black Sea when things settle down.

Hope you have a great cruise.

[ormy]

Received another reply from Thomson's - " Whilst we understand this is frustrating, as soon as we are informed of any decision regarding Crimean itinerary we will notify you"

Just what we expected nothing different once again, perhaps it's time to ditch Thomson in future.

[Souloggie]

Ormy,that is just how we felt.We felt Thomsons were treating us like fools.They give the impression that we should be grateful that we are travelling with them at all and if you get to the place advertised in the glossy brochure..you're lucky..and if you don't then tough..read the T&C's!

It has put us off booking a year in advance again and knocked our confidence that, despite how many cruises you have done with them,it means nothing,your still just a number!

Thanks all for the comments and advice,we now feel in control of our holiday again and are looking forward to it with great excitement.

Mark.

 

PS Did you know that there is a Thomsons Facebook group,manned 24 hours.Where you can post questions? I only heard of it a couple of days ago.I posted a question about the Crimean Cruise to which they said they would look into it and I heard no more,but,you may have more luck.

[ormy]

Very much doubt it Mark, in our case we want the itinerary we originally booked, but do not expect to get it, just nice to know where you are going when they want final balance in two weeks.

[sodafountain]

Although Thomson will tell you that they are allowed to change things, as it is in their T&C's, remember you are protected by the Package Travel Regulations:

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/package-travel-regulations

 

Changes to a booked holiday

Regulations 12 and 13 of the Package Travel Regulations are concerned with pre-departure cancellation or alteration by the organiser:

 

If there are alterations to your package holiday or to departure times or location, the travel organiser must notify the consumer as quickly as possible in order to enable him to take appropriate decisions and in particular to withdraw from the contract without penalty or to accept the alterations.

 

The customer is then required to respond to the notification of the alteration.

 

You then have the option of withdrawing from the contract without penalty or accept a variation.

 

 

 

A cruise is classed as a package, according to this:

 

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/bus1item.cgi?file=*BADV015-1111.txt

 

What is a package holiday?

The Regulations define a 'package' as follows:

 

the holiday must cover a period of at least 24 hours or involve overnight accommodation

the holiday must consist of a combination of at least two of the following components:

- transport (for example, flights, trains, coaches and ferries - free transfers from the airport to a hotel would not be included)

- accommodation (this should be significant - it would include a berth on a cruise ship but not on a cross-channel ferry)

- other tourist services that form a significant proportion of the package (for example, car hire)

the holiday must be sold at an inclusive price

This definition may include holidays that the average member of the public would not think of as a 'package'. For example, many people would think of a package holiday as involving a trip of a few days or more abroad, but a British holiday could also count, as long as the above conditions are fulfilled. A cruise would also come under the Regulations.

Edited April 1, 2014 by sodafountain

[davecttr]

What is the definition of location? I imagine Rhodes and Corfu are different locations but are similar hotels in the same location?

 

Imagine the exchange of views.

 

customer - I wan't to cancel because you have changed the ship from Majesty to Spirit

 

thomson - the ships are similar, tough

 

customer - no they are not, single inside cabins on Majesty are well away from the engines on higher decks. Those on Spirit are ex crew accomodation grouped on lower decks near the engines and propellors. I booked Majesty to get a good nights sleep, not to be shaken about in what i imagine the inside of a dry cement mixer is like.

 

thomson - try ear plugs, see you in court :p

[Sailaway487]

Itinerary has now changed!!!

 

Now called Black Sea Explorer

 

http://www.thomson.co.uk/cruise/itineraries/black-sea-explorer-itinerary.html

 

Sevastopol has gone and has been replaced with Bourgas in Bulgaria.

[ormy]

We'll spotted Sailaway - so much for Thomson informing me when itinerary changed, not had anything from them to date, typical again - at least it's not another day at sea.

[amazonlady]

Although Thomson will tell you that they are allowed to change things, as it is in their T&C's, remember you are protected by the Package Travel Regulations:

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/package-travel-regulations

 

Changes to a booked holiday

Regulations 12 and 13 of the Package Travel Regulations are concerned with pre-departure cancellation or alteration by the organiser:

 

If there are alterations to your package holiday or to departure times or location, the travel organiser must notify the consumer as quickly as possible in order to enable him to take appropriate decisions and in particular to withdraw from the contract without penalty or to accept the alterat

The customer is then required to respond to the notification of the alteration.

 

You then have the option of withdrawing from the contract without penalty or accept a variation.

 

 

 

A cruise is classed as a package, according to this:

 

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/bus1item.cgi?file=*BADV015-1111.txt

 

What is a package holiday?

The Regulations define a 'package' as follows:

 

the holiday must cover a period of at least 24 hours or involve overnight accommodation

the holiday must consist of a combination of at least two of the following components:

- transport (for example, flights, trains, coaches and ferries - free transfers from the airport to a hotel would not be included)

- accommodation (this should be significant - it would include a berth on a cruise ship but not on a cross-channel ferry)

- other tourist services that form a significant proportion of the package (for example, car hire)

the holiday must be sold at an inclusive price

This definition may include holidays that the average member of the public would not think of as a 'package'. For example, many people would think of a package holiday as involving a trip of a few days or more abroad, but a British holiday could also count, as long as the above conditions are fulfilled. A cruise would also come under the Regulations.

 

Thank you for that information, will be interesting, we are on the October cruise with Yalta, Sevastapol, Odessa and Sochi on the itinerary, i am not doing anything at the moment, because dont fancy losing any deposit, but this is very interesting to see.

[shot2bits]

Have to say I am getting more and more pi***d off with Thomson. Booked this cruise months ago and heard nothing from them re an itinerary change. I am really not happy, won't be booking with them again. On to my TA in the morning.

 

 

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[ormy]

Could not agree more Shot2Bits - If it was not for Sailaway I would still not know the change in itinerary, Thomson's have still not been in touch, definitely time to look at alternative cruise companies in future I think.

[amazonlady]

Hmmmm, have notice that our cruise in October, best of the black sea, is still showing the same itinerary but showing a £250 per person price drop, not happy with this at all:mad:

[ormy]

Prices change all the time irrespective of itinerary change, check mine all the time and it's never what we actually paid.

Perhaps with it being October they think they have lots of time to sort it.

Must say we are very disappointed we are not doing the Crimea, like everyone says it's the highlight of the Black Sea, but Thomson are not on their own in changing the itinerary.

Just have to make the best of it.

[Julessmiles]

Prices change all the time irrespective of itinerary change, check mine all the time and it's never what we actually paid.

Perhaps with it being October they think they have lots of time to sort it.

Must say we are very disappointed we are not doing the Crimea, like everyone says it's the highlight of the Black Sea, but Thomson are not on their own in changing the itinerary.

Just have to make the best of it.

 

Firstly I think Thomson have gone about this the wrong way in putting the new itinerary for sale but it seems disregarding passengers who have already booked. I hope people are notified correctly soon of the new itinerary.

 

Secondly, I think I would be pleased with the itinerary they have changed it to - people will still be sailing through the Dardanelles (moving occasion out on deck listening to the commentary) and of course the ship will still be sailing through the Bosphorous both ways which again is a lovely experience. We sailed through to the Black Sea at 1am; amazing seeing the city & the bridges lit up & changing colour & sailed back at 6am; worth getting up for; it is beautiful seeing the sunrise & the city coming to life.

 

Shame they are still doing 2 sea days - personally I don't think it is ideal on the Celebration if you like a sunbed or to sit outside as sea days always seem to be so busy with the battle of the sunbeds.....but I guess people already knew it was 2 sea days when they originally booked.

 

Still a lovely itinerary.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Julessmiles

[shot2bits]

Ok, spoke to my TA, a large high street company who have been in the news regarding their bank recently. They did not know about the itinerary change so spoke to Thomson on my behalf. Thomson said we could cancel and lose our deposit, or transfer to another cruise for a £50 fee! My TA rang her head office and they say, categorically that Thomson can't do this as the change is 'significant'. They are now waiting for Thomson to issue a formal letter detailing the changes and will then advise me. I asked what their stance would be and they are adamant that we should be able to cancel, without loss, I.e. Get a full refund of our deposit. That being the case, I will miss you all, but won't be using Thomson again.

 

 

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[ormy]

Totally agree with you shot2bits - we are not happy with Thomson's, we have still not been informed of itinerary change despite my email correspondence with them, not good.

We know they cannot go to the Crimea, but their PR actions are nil regarding this matter.

We have to pay this week and to date do not know where we are going according to Thomson Cruises, thank goodness for this forum.

Perhaps have a look at alternatives next, despite liking the Thomson cruise experience.

[shot2bits]

Hello Ormy. Well, we have been looking for an alternative and Celebrity are doing a very attractive cruise which suits our dates. Assuming Thomson take the hint, we will be going on that instead, and they are giving free AI or on board spend. I am sorry to say this has finished me with Thomson cruises. It's just that they have the audacity to advertise this cruise with the revised itinerary and yet have not informed even the TAs let alone those of us who have booked. I paid the minimum deposit and if push comes to shove, I will forgo that rather than go somewhere I am not interested in. Good luck with your decision.

 

 

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[newport dave]

Unfortunately changing one port is not classed as a significant change. All this is in the T&C's. The way they've handled it is terrible but nothing new for them. We were on the Best of Black Sea cruise in Oct visiting 3 Crimean ports. We decided today to bite the bullet and pay the admin fee to transfer our cruise, as those 3 ports plus Istanbul where the only ones we were interested in. I would rather change now while there is still a good choice of Thomson holidays to choose from. We transferred to the 14 night Aegean Delight/Adriatic Explorer on Thomson Majesty, it departs only a few days later than we were originally.

[sodafountain]

Unfortunately changing one port is not classed as a significant change. All this is in the T&C's. The way they've handled it is terrible but nothing new for them. We were on the Best of Black Sea cruise in Oct visiting 3 Crimean ports. We decided today to bite the bullet and pay the admin fee to transfer our cruise, as those 3 ports plus Istanbul where the only ones we were interested in. I would rather change now while there is still a good choice of Thomson holidays to choose from. We transferred to the 14 night Aegean Delight/Adriatic Explorer on Thomson Majesty, it departs only a few days later than we were originally.

 

Thomson may not class it as a significant change, and it may be in their T&C's, but that does not make it right, there are laws to protect you, otherwise they could get away with anything by just saying it is in the T&C's, read my previous post:

 

Although Thomson will tell you that they are allowed to change things, as it is in their T&C's, remember you are protected by the Package Travel Regulations:

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/package-travel-regulations

 

Changes to a booked holiday

Regulations 12 and 13 of the Package Travel Regulations are concerned with pre-departure cancellation or alteration by the organiser:

 

If there are alterations to your package holiday or to departure times or location, the travel organiser must notify the consumer as quickly as possible in order to enable him to take appropriate decisions and in particular to withdraw from the contract without penalty or to accept the alterations.

 

The customer is then required to respond to the notification of the alteration.

 

You then have the option of withdrawing from the contract without penalty or accept a variation.

 

 

 

A cruise is classed as a package, according to this:

 

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/bus1item.cgi?file=*BADV015-1111.txt

 

What is a package holiday?

The Regulations define a 'package' as follows:

 

the holiday must cover a period of at least 24 hours or involve overnight accommodation

the holiday must consist of a combination of at least two of the following components:

- transport (for example, flights, trains, coaches and ferries - free transfers from the airport to a hotel would not be included)

- accommodation (this should be significant - it would include a berth on a cruise ship but not on a cross-channel ferry)

- other tourist services that form a significant proportion of the package (for example, car hire)

the holiday must be sold at an inclusive price

This definition may include holidays that the average member of the public would not think of as a 'package'. For example, many people would think of a package holiday as involving a trip of a few days or more abroad, but a British holiday could also count, as long as the above conditions are fulfilled. A cruise would also come under the Regulations.

 

Lets put it another way, large companies will always say they are not liable, until you tell them otherwise.

 

I bought a TV from Argos, it failed after 16 months, out of warranty, phoned them up, and thats what they said, tough, it is out of warranty. I then quotd the sale of goods act to them, stating that anything they sell should be fit for purpose, and if it failed due to a manufacturing fault, it was their responsibility, upto 5 or 6 years, as soon as i quotd this, their stnace changed, and after doing a few things mentioned in the sale of good act, i got a full refund.

 

So remember, they will tell you one thing, just make sure you know the laws and acts there to protect you, quote them, and they do change their stance, they just wait to see if you know what you are entitled to.

Edited April 16, 2014 by sodafountain

[newport dave]

Considering the cruise industry have been doing this for years, they seem to think they can and in fact do get away with it. I'm sure they already aware of the above mentioned trading standard.

[kruzseeka]

Thomson have had no option other than to change this cruise in the light of events there, the T&C which refer to changes due to 'riot, civil unrest, terrorism' (or something to that effect) plus Foreign Office advice to not travel to the Ukraine to say nothing of your personal insurance no doubt being invalid if you were to travel to such an area.

 

The change is not the issue - but the communication from Thomson to their customers and reasonable offers of options for them to consider as a result of the changes is. They have had plenty of time now to inform people of the changes and implications - especially as for some the balance is due. An admin failure of respectful response to their customers! Not good enough! :(

[ormy]

We know they had no choice but change itinerary, who would want to go to Crimea at present, the point being existing passengers have not been informed of the change, in my case I have been in email correspondence over this matter with Thomson - but no info re changed itinerary

[kruzseeka]

We know they had no choice but change itinerary, who would want to go to Crimea at present, the point being existing passengers have not been informed of the change, in my case I have been in email correspondence over this matter with Thomson - but no info re changed itinerary

 

 

I agree entirely - it's not the change which is the problem but the point I was making was that it was their response - or lack of it which is not acceptable!

[shot2bits]

I have today emailed Simon Calder (Senior Travel Correspondent for The Independent) and explained the problem. He mailed me back very quickly and asked me for details of the original itinerary and the revised itinerary. I have done this and await his advice. I know Thomson can't and obviously won't be going to Crimea, but why have they not written to us, their customers?

 

 

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