So Disappointed

[ShakyBeef]

What you're hearing are longtime cruisers who have loved Carnival for years and spent thousands of dollars cruising with them. They have watched as the product has devolved into a fraction of what they used to enjoy, and consequently have become disillusioned with Carnival. I see more and more of that with every passing month.

 

Bingo!

 

(which has also had its share of cutbacks on Carnival:p)

[angie1818]

I've cruised with Carnival for years and yes I have seen the cut backs. But look around there are cut backs everywhere. If your not happy with cruising with Carnival go some where else...price a week vacation at a beach resort, plus food,plus entertainment and look at your bill! Or book with another cruise line. I'll bet you will be happy to cruise with Carnival! It's not about all the things that have been cut back, they are not important. The important thing about cruising is meeting all the different people, making new friends, seeing new places, and most of all just getting away from working and relaxing?

So just sit back and enjoy what you have and drink another umbrella drink!

[ShakyBeef]

Your reasoning for stepping aboard a Carnival ship sounds like the one about the guy who walks who into a psychiatrist's office and says, " hey doc, my brother's crazy! He thinks he's a chicken."

 

Then the doc says, "why don't you turn him in?" Then the guy says, "I would but I need the eggs."

 

LOL:)

 

The eggs are getting smaller and crappier, though.:rolleyes::p

 

But maybe you missed my first reason - I cruise Carnival to cruise with my friends. It just so happens that at the future frequency I foresee cruising with them, all those cruises will be free.;) This does make swallowing the cutbacks a little easier. But if it weren't for all the cutbacks, I'd still be happily spending large amounts of money with them about twice a year.

[AdGuyMG]

For all the people that hate the cutbacks and complain about them every time they cruise Carnival, why are y'all still cruising with Carnival? When a product I like changes in a way I don't care for, I don't buy it anymore.

 

Agree. And there are many cruise lines out there that offer a different guest experience and higher level of service. I've personally cruised on a couple of premium and upper premium lines and they are all very nice to say the least. But my most memorable and overall funnest (?) times have been aboard Carnival.

 

With that said on most every cruise I've taken, I always make small talk with others onboard. Usually about cruising. And virtually every time I encounter someone, usually older, who's been a long time cruiser, a variation of "Well, she's a nice ship, and we're having a good time, but I've been sailing with ____________ for many years and lemme tell you, it's just not like it used to be. Why back in the day they used to give you this.... and they used to give you that... and the cabins all had this... and the dining room always served that.... and the..........." yada yada yada.

[Disconnections]

I've cruised with Carnival for years and yes I have seen the cut backs. But look around there are cut backs everywhere. If your not happy with cruising with Carnival go some where else...price a week vacation at a beach resort, plus food,plus entertainment and look at your bill! Or book with another cruise line. I'll bet you will be happy to cruise with Carnival! It's not about all the things that have been cut back, they are not important. The important thing about cruising is meeting all the different people, making new friends, seeing new places, and most of all just getting away from working and relaxing?

So just sit back and enjoy what you have and drink another umbrella drink!

 

While some are afraid to vote with their wallet and venture into the unknown, not everyone is. My experience was disappointing enough to drive a once partial cheerleader for Carnival away to try another cruise line. Cruising isn't my only vacation option. As you suggested, being a Florida resident, I spend many nights each year at beach resorts, Disney/Universal, weekends in Key West and other various destinations. I don't need to go on a cruise to go to a beach... I have a beautiful beach just a few short walking minutes away. Hence, the reason I don't get off the ship at Princess Cays anymore.

 

You brought up a point that some may be happy sailing with Carnival who complain about cutbacks. If I returned at this point, I don't think I would. Considering how negative my attitude towards Carnival has been lately, I feel if I went on a Carnival ship, I would ONLY look for issues and would avoid seeing the positives. As you mentioned cruising isn't about cutbacks... of course it isn't. However, everyone has different feelings towards things and what may be important to you may not be important to me and vice verse. Cost cutting measures have the 100% potential to impact and devalue one's cruising experience.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Disconnections

[Shipbound]

I've been cruising with CCL since 1992 and the biggest change I see is the entertainment section, Carnival use to have the best bands at sea IMO not just on one ship but all the ships. I have not been to the shows in the past several years but I know there use to be a nine piece band now there are none and I here they reduced the number of dancers. At one time there was a five man calypso band on the lido deck. Now a DJ.

 

Gary

[tidecruiser]

I don't post often but the Horse Divers had me laughing until tears and yes I know it was most likely the famous auto correct. I also don't why that was so funny. Just a timing thing I guess.

 

But, I felt someone needed to point out the other side. No one denies the cut backs. I still laugh at the threads I read back when Carnival cut the President gold foil wrapped butter to the little flower pads and I remember the uproar. I am very laid back and butter is not going to change my cruise :-). Then there is the bacon ****, which I just asked for more and he gave it to me. I am sure the Op saw and is frustrated to see these cuts, sure. (By the way my doctor would most likely commend adding the bacon **** and would have preferred he gave me none).

 

So, some of my observations. My first Carnival cruise did not have a 24 hour Pizza place, they only offered grill fare by the pool during the day, the Buffett and main dining room. There were no options outside the main dining room but room service in the evening.

 

Now there are new options galore in the food area such as: Guys Burgers, Made to order Mexican bar, sushi, the Deli, Mongolian Wok and etc on the newer ships. They have added on some ships a mini water park with a variety of slides. I can't forget the Serenity area that is my new favorite. They have added bath robes and a even coolers (I did not say refrig on purpose :-)) in the cabin. Yes they stopped ice buckets (unless you ask or have a great steward) because people were not using the ice. They haven't gotten rid of the little waxy chocolates on the pillow as Royal did. The new ropes course on the Sunshine is another new feature and addition.

 

So Sure Carnival has cut some items and I am sure they are missed, but they have added other items and I felt to be fair if we are to compare to the past, we should also discuss the new things.

 

On the entertainment, the demographic is changing and to remain relevant cruise lines have to change (as well as hotels (what's the deal with the fake grass on the middle of the table at Marriott Courtyard?), even my local McDonald's has gone to the new sleek modern look). As Carnival added more evening options that their customers were asking for it no longer makes sense to invest in high production cost shows every evening, when the show rooms were half full. Now there is movies by the pool at night, multiple other options from the Comedy club, Karaoke and the like.

 

Yes the live band by the pool is gone, but the last Carnival cruise I was on with the steel band, they were awful, I prefer the video screen with a fun Bon voyage party and all those quirky and stupid dance songs. The video screen gave new options and made the live band obsolete (or maybe I should less needed).

 

Another poster pointed out the cost difference. My last cruise was on Disney where I paid 6 times the amount I am paying for my upcoming Carnival cruise. Both were in off season for comparison. I keep that in mind as I enjoy the cruise experience on Carnival and do not expect a Ruth's Chris steak when I am paying for a Golden Corral Buffett.

 

None of this is to minimize what the op noticed, they are right, there have been changes, some are cost cutting and some demographic changes and evolving guest trends. But to be fair they should remember the things Carnival has added over that same time period and kept prices dropping or steady year over year.

 

I could have paid $300 more per person to go on a Royal ship out of the same port as my upcoming Carnival cruise, but then I would expect more from their product.

 

One last thought, Carnival Corp owns Princess, Holland, Cunard and others. Each line has to have a place in the market, Carnival is not trying to be a Princess, a Holland or even their competitor product Royal. They are trying to be a value product that still delivers a great experience. They don't pretend to be something their not. They still deliver (for me) a great experience for what I pay and that is why I come back when my vacation budget is on the anemic side. If it is more robust then I take a land trip or even another cruise product.

 

So yes the glass can be half full and half empty at the same time. Just need to look at the full glass, not just half.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[ShakyBeef]

I'm still a newbie to the cruising industry but I have to say I really hope there are enough of us newbies to keep the cruise lines like Carnival going strong. It seems like all the older people are disappointed and have nothing but complaints about cruising. I guess things have gotten worse on cruises over the years. I've only been on two cruises, both in the past year, but the value for the buck spent was wonderful! I've been searching for a vacation for next year...checking out a bunch of options... a week at the beach, a week in the mountains, an all inclusive somewhere fun for a week...I can't find anything that can compare in price to a Carnival Cruise. Lodging for the night, and food (all you can eat) for the day just can't be beat anywhere else that I've found. Throw in the fun ports, the entertainment and time at sea and I haven't found anything that can beat the price.

So my opinion is if you can afford better and choose to spend more money on a "better" vacation then go right ahead and do it...if a Carnival cruise is more in your price range and you enjoy it then go ahead and do that...WITHOUT complaining about cutbacks. There is still a lot of bang for your buck with Carnival. Just my opinion and yes I know what my opinion is worth...LOL.

 

 

I'll keep complaining about the Carnival cutbacks that bother me on the Carnival forum of Cruise Critic, thanks. It's part of the "critic" thing.;)

 

 

I've cruised with Carnival for years and yes I have seen the cut backs. But look around there are cut backs everywhere. If your not happy with cruising with Carnival go some where else...price a week vacation at a beach resort, plus food,plus entertainment and look at your bill! Or book with another cruise line. I'll bet you will be happy to cruise with Carnival! It's not about all the things that have been cut back, they are not important. The important thing about cruising is meeting all the different people, making new friends, seeing new places, and most of all just getting away from working and relaxing?

So just sit back and enjoy what you have and drink another umbrella drink!

 

 

To some of us they are important. Yes, cutbacks are everywhere, as I noted in my semi-related grocery rant.:rolleyes: For me, it's not about the price. I want the quality that Carnival led me to expect. As I said, I understand and even expect that prices will have to go up in order to maintain that quality. I'd be fine with that. That is where I and some others differ from those that say "Just get me on a ship for as cheap as possible".

 

Back to another grocery analogy: if a product that I have bought and enjoyed for years goes up in price, I will sigh and suck it up and buy it. If the quality of said product has remained the same, I will continue to buy it and enjoy it. If, however, the quality goes down while the price stays the same (or goes up:(), I feel ripped off and deceived. I will probably also complain about it, sometimes directly to the manufacturers of the product. And if possible, I will switch to a competitor's product. I feel the same about and am following the same practice with my cruising.

 

 

Oh, and in case any of you missed me saying it before, I have yet to have a bad cruise. They just used to be better on Carnival than they are now.

Edited September 6, 2014 by ShakyBeef
spelling

[swscruiser]

All cruise lines are cutting back to keep their price as low as possible. RCCL is not the same as it was several years ago either, so if you had been sailing with them for 24 cruiser over the last few years you would probably be making the same complaints about them. We started cruising in the 80's on the Carnival Celebration, she was 6 months old at the time we had a inside cabin for 7 days out of Miami, our fare for 2 was $2,000.00. We just got off the Carnival Freedom for 8 days inside cabin and paid $1200.00 for both of us. Has the on board experience changed in 25 years? Has the cost per day gone down? You betcha. What else costs 40% less than it did 25years ago?

 

Keith

[angie1818]

I don't post often but the Horse Divers had me laughing until tears and yes I know it was most likely the famous auto correct. I also don't why that was so funny. Just a timing thing I guess.

 

But, I felt someone needed to point out the other side. No one denies the cut backs. I still laugh at the threads I read back when Carnival cut the President gold foil wrapped butter to the little flower pads and I remember the uproar. I am very laid back and butter is not going to change my cruise :-). Then there is the bacon ****, which I just asked for more and he gave it to me. I am sure the Op saw and is frustrated to see these cuts, sure. (By the way my doctor would most likely commend adding the bacon **** and would have preferred he gave me none).

 

So, some of my observations. My first Carnival cruise did not have a 24 hour Pizza place, they only offered grill fare by the pool during the day, the Buffett and main dining room. There were no options outside the main dining room but room service in the evening.

 

Now there are new options galore in the food area such as: Guys Burgers, Made to order Mexican bar, sushi, the Deli, Mongolian Wok and etc on the newer ships. They have added on some ships a mini water park with a variety of slides. I can't forget the Serenity area that is my new favorite. They have added bath robes and a even coolers (I did not say refrig on purpose :-)) in the cabin. Yes they stopped ice buckets (unless you ask or have a great steward) because people were not using the ice. They haven't gotten rid of the little waxy chocolates on the pillow as Royal did. The new ropes course on the Sunshine is another new feature and addition.

 

So Sure Carnival has cut some items and I am sure they are missed, but they have added other items and I felt to be fair if we are to compare to the past, we should also discuss the new things.

 

On the entertainment, the demographic is changing and to remain relevant cruise lines have to change (as well as hotels (what's the deal with the fake grass on the middle of the table at Marriott Courtyard?), even my local McDonald's has gone to the new sleek modern look). As Carnival added more evening options that their customers were asking for it no longer makes sense to invest in high production cost shows every evening, when the show rooms were half full. Now there is movies by the pool at night, multiple other options from the Comedy club, Karaoke and the like.

 

Yes the live band by the pool is gone, but the last Carnival cruise I was on with the steel band, they were awful, I prefer the video screen with a fun Bon voyage party and all those quirky and stupid dance songs. The video screen gave new options and made the live band obsolete (or maybe I should less needed).

 

Another poster pointed out the cost difference. My last cruise was on Disney where I paid 6 times the amount I am paying for my upcoming Carnival cruise. Both were in off season for comparison. I keep that in mind as I enjoy the cruise experience on Carnival and do not expect a Ruth's Chris steak when I am paying for a Golden Corral Buffett.

 

None of this is to minimize what the op noticed, they are right, there have been changes, some are cost cutting and some demographic changes and evolving guest trends. But to be fair they should remember the things Carnival has added over that same time period and kept prices dropping or steady year over year.

 

I could have paid $300 more per person to go on a Royal ship out of the same port as my upcoming Carnival cruise, but then I would expect more from their product.

 

One last thought, Carnival Corp owns Princess, Holland, Cunard and others. Each line has to have a place in the market, Carnival is not trying to be a Princess, a Holland or even their competitor product Royal. They are trying to be a value product that still delivers a great experience. They don't pretend to be something their not. They still deliver (for me) a great experience for what I pay and that is why I come back when my vacation budget is on the anemic side. If it is more robust then I take a land trip or even another cruise product.

 

So yes the glass can be half full and half empty at the same time. Just need to look at the full glass, not just half.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

EVERY WELL SAID! I totally agree but then I am always a glass half full sort of person. Makes my days easier! Happy sailing!

[ShakyBeef]

I am in no way expecting a Ruth's Chris steak when I am paying for a Golden Corral Buffett (BTW, blecchhh! I avoid buffets like the plague:eek:). I am just constantly disappointed that every time I set foot inside "Golden Corral", the quality of the "Golden Corral" product has been degraded yet again. Let's assume for this analogy, that I once was very happy with the Golden Corral product.;)

 

So now, I'll only go to "Golden Corral" when my friends want me to go there with them. And because I'm out with my friends, I'll have a great time. I won't for a minute be miserable or sitting at the table complaining about the cutbacks. But I won't be able to avoid noticing them. And when my husband and I are cruising - errr, I mean "eating out" alone, we'll be going to "Ruth's Chris" (or more likely, "Outback Steakhouse":p).

[ChargeOn]

I went from December of 2012 to August of 2014 between Carnival Cruises. I noticed no changes/cutbacks between those two Carnival Experiences.

[Tapi]

We just finish our 24th Carnival cruise.

 

IMHO, this might be a big reason why you're feeling the way that you're feeling. You may be feeling a bit "Carnivaled" out. After that many cruises on the same cruise line, things do start feeling stale. What once was awesome, may not feel as awesome anymore. Some negatives may become more noticeable, etc. Also, YOU may have changed over the years. You may be a bit more discerning now than you were 14 years ago and may be ready for something more.

 

Do yourself a favor. Try other cruise lines. See what else is out there. You may be ready for something new, but you may also decide that Carnival is still your cruise line of choice, and that all the changes aren't that bad once you've had a chance to see what others have to offer.

 

It happened to us a few years back, We were getting sick of Carnival after a couple of declining cruises. We did branch out and try other cruise lines. We then sailed on Carnival again. The experience felt fresh again and we had a very enjoyable time. We have continued branching out to other cruise lines because we've discovered that it's more fun to try different cruise lines, but we don't discount sailing on Carnival again.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Tapi

[pjhootch]

Tidecruiser made some great points, as did the OP. It is disappointing and frustrating when things you like and appreciate change or disappear. I've seen cutbacks for sure. Some of them bother me and some don't.

 

The MDR food was more enjoyable when we first started cruising. I can always find something I like now... but not necessarily something I rave about and look forward to having again.

 

The live bands are either gone or suck. We enjoyed the live music, including the piano bar.

 

It is still worth it to us for a few reasons. I can totally understand why some people don't feel that way anymore. As for the people that want to jump OP for writing the review before the cruise... even if it were true, who cares?

 

I don't smoke, but I know people in my family will be disappointed not to smoke on the balcony in a few weeks. Does knowing that fact ahead of time impact how they view the cruise and make other changes rub them the wrong way? Don't know. But if it does, their opinion is still valid.

[Eeyoregon]

OP: Thank you for your honest and insightful post. I won't flame you. You clearly are a dedicated Carnival customer and because of that, you are very aware of the changes, good or bad, and I feel your disappointment. It's very disheartening to see a product that you love so dearly, slowly dissolve. Perhaps you need to write an in depth letter to Carnival and John Heald...the "beards" should read it.

 

We are what keeps the cruise industry afloat and with the amount of competition out there, the cruise lines HAVE to keep current and provide a good product.

 

Sorry for your disappointment.

 

Gina

[AdGuyMG]

What you're hearing are longtime cruisers who have loved Carnival for years and spent thousands of dollars cruising with them. They have watched as the product has devolved into a fraction of what they used to enjoy, and consequently have become disillusioned with Carnival. I see more and more of that with every passing month.

 

The only problem with the majority of the negative Carnival pablum you post is your basis and frame of reference is only supported by Cruise Critic posts. Cruise Critic posters and lurkers combined make up less than 1% of the universe of people who actually cruise. Last year approximately 3 million people cruised aboard Carnival. 1% of 3 million is 30,000. Do you honestly see 30,000 different screen names here when you surf the Carnival board? What about 3000 different screen names? That would be .1%. I seem to see maybe about 300 active posters.

 

Using Cruise Critic to quantify factual data about the majority of peoples cruise experiences would be like relying on Craigslist for an accurate picture of your local real estate market or depending on Yelp reviews to choose a restaurant.

 

98% of all cruisers never even heard of Cruise Critic.

[AdGuyMG]

One last thought, Carnival Corp owns Princess, Holland, Cunard and others. Each line has to have a place in the market, Carnival is not trying to be a Princess, a Holland or even their competitor product Royal. They are trying to be a value product that still delivers a great experience. They don't pretend to be something their not.

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Perfectly put and a very important point that is lost on many.

 

As one with very close ties to the cruise industry both professionally and personally here in South Florida, I can honestly state that although all lines are competitors, in reality the industry is very closely knit and tied together with a sense of professional colleagueship and is very incestuousness with middle and top management personnel crossing over from one company to the other. And back again. Although each company strives to keep market share and maintain revenue levels, nobody is trying to put the other out of business and none are trying to be a clone of the other.

[Shipbound]

I am not complaining about the cut backs I still cruise with CCL because they do provide the best bang for the buck however I do notice the changes which can happen in all the cruise lines.

CCL have made changes positively like the food it was horrible when I first started cruising now it has greatly improved IMO. The debarkation process has improved it use to take hours to get off the ship sometimes I would not get to FLL until 11:30 am now I'm off the ship by 8:00am..

 

Gary

[travler27]

All business models are constantly evolving. A business has to continue attracting customers, paying expenses and making a profit to stay in business. In our area there has been a recent push to raise fast food worker's pay to $15 per hour. If that ever happens, you can bet Mickey D's business model will have to change. I don't know if burgers will get smaller, prices will rise or just what will happen. I do know something will change. Will the change be enough to make me stop going to Mickey D's. Who knows?

 

It's no different for the cruise industry. Some lines have responded to changing business conditions with cut-backs in service areas where they feel the cut-backs will have the least impact on the customer while keeping the profit levels where they need to be. Some lines have responded to those changing conditions with increased fares. As consumers we have to make our buying decision based on our own needs and requirements. That might mean some of us will change lines. Just the way supply and demand works.

[Seago2]

All business models are constantly evolving. A business has to continue attracting customers, paying expenses and making a profit to stay in business. In our area there has been a recent push to raise fast food worker's pay to $15 per hour. If that ever happens, you can bet Mickey D's business model will have to change. I don't know if burgers will get smaller, prices will rise or just what will happen. I do know something will change. Will the change be enough to make me stop going to Mickey D's. Who knows?

 

It's no different for the cruise industry. Some lines have responded to changing business conditions with cut-backs in service areas where they feel the cut-backs will have the least impact on the customer while keeping the profit levels where they need to be. Some lines have responded to those changing conditions with increased fares. As consumers we have to make our buying decision based on our own needs and requirements. That might mean some of us will change lines. Just the way supply and demand works.

 

Very well put. I just wish there were more cruising options out of the northeast. I don't mind paying more for Princess but it's kind of hard to fly out to Seattle, stay in a hotel, etc just to take a 7 day summer cruise. X is too boring for kids. I think I just have to find the best Carnival ship out there for next summer. In the winter, when it's just my husband and me, we will go as high up as we need to, and I guess that will keep evolving as acceptable cutback levels go up and up the food chain. Loyalty rewards are so minor that it doesn't pay to be loyal. It would be nice to have free wifi and laundry but not if I have to take 15 cruises that are progressively more bare bones.

 

What would just solve the whole problem would be to raise cruise fares by a couple hundred bucks and restore the prior food quality, a smidgen of live music, and some non-playlist shows.

[golfb4cruzing]

One of the expensive items on a cruise, besides fuel is the food costs. After cutting everything else, food has to change. Smaller portions and lesser quality. Unless you PAY for the upgrade restaurant. Carnival is and always will be geared towards people looking for CHEAP vacation and booze hounds. Well, you get what you pay for and then you complain. I don't get it. Death and taxes are the two constants. What do you get for your loyalty?? Really, what?? Get on a little sooner? Wash some of your clothes? Big deal. Try someone else. We did and never coming back. There are cuts everywhere but very small ones. You are going to argue price. Nonsense. If you watch, you can cruise a different line for the same and sometimes LESS. And the way it used to be. So LEAVE. Would you stay with a car dealership, doctor, plumber that kept giving you less and less BUT didn't raise their prices?? Your logic is flawed.

[golfb4cruzing]

Oh, they're shrinking the packaging and the amount and often the quality of product (YES, BREYER'S "FROZEN DAIRY DESSERT"-THAT-USED-TO-BE-ICE-CREAM, THIS MEANS YOU!:mad:) all over the place, man.:cool: But I just wish they would raise the price appropriately and not treat us like idiots, trying to fool us with a crappy product in a similar package.

 

Give me back my 6 ounce can of tuna, Carnival!:( Or if you won't do that, could you at least not continue to shrink it to a 4 ounce can?:rolleyes:

 

I promise I'm not drinking.;) Just bored on a Friday night.

 

Just buy 6 cans and then you have enough for 5 recipes. It's all relative. You might have to speak with a professional. LOL

[sxyshell]

Noooo doubt you can noticed the cuts. I mean they are staring you right in the face. 8 carnival cruises since 2005 and each one has stepped down from the last. The crew is great and I've never had a bad experience there. The ships are clean. But the food? It's in a death spiral now. The dinner buffet is the worst. I don't complain or moan or "let it ruin my vacation" but anyone can see the cutbacks. Hasbro, Playlist, beanbag toss and trivia all day, no ice buckets, four things in the buffet at dinner (not an option), limited MDR and room service menu, punchliner brunch menu vs a proper breakfast and lunch service, DJ, etc etc etc. It didn't bother me until these last two cruises. I have one more Carnival cruise in me and the youngest will be 18 and I'm done.

 

We were on the Sensation in July and just got off of the Sunshine yesterday. We definitely agree that the food is not as good as it used to be. We've been cruising with Carnival since 2006 and have noticed the cutbacks. If you want better food you have to pay an up charge in the specialty restaurants. We ate at the Asian restaurant on the Sunshine, JiJi, and it was worth the $15 per person extra. We tried to get a reservation at the steakhouse but they were booked every night. We were willing to pay for better food. The food doesn't stop you from enjoying your cruise. But I will say that we are going to try a different cruise line on our next cruise so that we have something to compare it to since we've only ever cruised Carnival.

Edited September 6, 2014 by sxyshell

[golfb4cruzing]

I would say their plan is working then. Drive sales to the upgrade restaurants . The other line with minimal free food and a bunch of pay venues don't seem to lack in sales. Carnival will be there soon with each new ship and remodel.

[sweetsixteencruisers]

Couldn't agree with you more, Tidecruiser! Well said!!