Healthcare worker possibly exposed to Ebola, sailing on Carnival ship

[luvtheships]

Just a note to add a comment that the CDC sent a helicopter out to the ship Friday to get a sample of blood (I assume) to test for Ebola before the ship arrived back in Galveston this morning. The sample tested negative for Ebola, which is why the couple were the first to disembark this morning and then they headed back home.

 

Thank you for stating this again

 

IMHO no one was getting off that ship until negative results came in

 

I was vilified for suggesting her blood needed to be taken off the ship ahead if time too

 

Someone even posted that the lab worker should refuse to give blood as that was her right to refuse

 

So in the end...... Her blood was airlifted

 

It was negative

 

All got off ship promptly

 

Anyone who thinks the prompt debark would have happened without those blood results just doesn't think clearly

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Edited October 19, 2014 by luvtheships

[caladezi]

 

I am disturbed by comments like this.

These nurses risked their lives, as all health care workers do every day, using the best evidence based practices available to them at the point in time.

 

 

Instead of uninformed statements vilifying these people we should be treating them like the firefighters on 9/11. They willingly put themselves in positions of danger to try to save lives. They used the information available at THAT point in time to try to save lives.

The fact that in retrospect the information they had was inadequate does not make them culpable for the after effects.

 

GET REAL!!! My mailman puts himself at more risk driving on the road than most health care workers do. To even consider what they do in the same breath as what police or firefighters do on a daily basis is not only very wrong but ignorant.

 

How would you feel had the situation been different and full blow Ebola had materialized and you had been in the cabin next to her. I imagine that then you would have felt she should have skipped the cruise.

[Gracie115]

GET REAL!!! My mailman puts himself at more risk driving on the road than most health care workers do. To even consider what they do in the same breath as what police or firefighters do on a daily basis is not only very wrong but ignorant.

 

How would you feel had the situation been different and full blow Ebola had materialized and you had been in the cabin next to her. I imagine that then you would have felt she should have skipped the cruise.

 

ah...but you would rather BEGIN this thread with hysterics...stating that the person is "NOW SHOWING SIGNS OF INFECTION" so, YES, lets get real and state FACTS not inane hearsay.....

 

and, yes, health care workers that work in an infectious disease environment are putting themselves at great risk to do their job, and yes, they are heroes....

Edited October 19, 2014 by Gracie115

[ChucktownSteve]

What is the protocol if she had started showing symptoms while on the cruise? No one has answered this question on any forum.

 

I believe the fine print in the cruise contract stipulates that if a passenger exhibits Eboli symptoms, they may be burned at the stake on the fo'c'sle and thrown overboard. :eek:

[herbanrenewal]

What is the protocol if she had started showing symptoms while on the cruise? No one has answered this question on any forum. I suspect many people just don't have an answer so they ignore the question. I mean it worked out THIS TIME, so why bother knowing the answer anyways.

 

It is a disgrace, in my opinion, to liken her actions to those of 9/11 first responders. They are true heroes who we continually honor and will never forget their sacrifices. In my opinion this is a woman who did not think about potential consequences (she boarded at day 14 out of 21 day self-monitor period). Should CDC have better protocol and procedures? YES. Does that absolve a health care professional from making poor judgment calls? Absolutely not in my book. She should be held to a higher standard and quite frankly knowing the case she was involved in she should have exhibited an abundance of caution and delayed her trip until it was certain that she did not have the disease. Plain and simple. I had a hard enough time understanding the defense of her decision, to liken her to 9/11 first responders is beyond imagination.

 

These are MY opinions. I am sure many don't agree. We all get to have our opinions and view points. I am glad this worked out this time, but many of you would be singing a very different tune if it did not work out whereas I would still have the same exact opinion; she should have known better and she should not have boarded that ship during the self-monitor incubation period. No one can make a reasonable argument that she acted with an abundance of caution; I mean she went from truly believing she was fine to being quarantined, so there was at least reasonable doubt as to her own self-diagnosis (and she is a lab supervisor, NOT a doctor. She is not qualified to make that call about herself during the incubation period...)

 

These are all facts of the matter.

 

I disagree with your opinion.

 

What is the protocol if she had started showing symptoms while on the cruise? No one has answered this question on any forum. I suspect many people just don't have an answer so they ignore the question. I mean it worked out THIS TIME, so why bother knowing the answer anyways.

You are correct when you say no one had the answers - especially not those on a travel forum. Certainly the CDC did not have the answers since they did not advise these healthcare workers to do anything except monitor their temperature and report fever. The lab worker complied using her knowledge - when another healthcare worker was reported in the news to have ebola after traveling with the CDC's permission, this women self isolated at a point that by all knowledge she was NOT contagious since she did not have (and thank God, still does not have) symptoms.

It is a disgrace, in my opinion, to liken her actions to those of 9/11 first responders. ... In my opinion ...

In MY opinion one who knowingly renders efforts to save the lives of others in the face of personal danger IS a HERO!!!

Shame on anyone who does not recognize that anyone who risks themselves for others is a hero!

 

Should CDC have better protocol and procedures? YES. Does that absolve a health care professional from making poor judgment calls? Absolutely not in my book. She should be held to a higher standard Than the CDC who she relied on for the most accurate information????

 

I had a hard enough time understanding the defense of her decision, to liken her to 9/11 first responders is beyond imagination.

 

"These are MY opinions... These are all facts of the matter" ????

The next time I am in a situation where the World Health Organization and the CDC doesn't know what to do and issues insufficient directives I will be sure to consult you....no, wait, you only know what to do in hindsight, just like the CDC

 

Please forgive me for my responses here. I do not think this is the correct forum to deal with national and international health issues. My 45 years experience as a nurse reacts terribly to any lack of insight that devalues the remarkable and frequently altruistic actions of our healthcare providers.

[caladezi]

ah...but you would rather BEGIN this thread with hysterics...stating that the person is "NOW SHOWING SIGNS OF INFECTION" so, YES, lets get real and state FACTS not inane hearsay.....

 

and, yes, health care workers that work in an infectious disease environment are putting themselves at great risk to do their job, and yes, they are heroes....

 

Ah, but reread my OP before being so judgemental. You would see that what I started with was what I had just heard reported on the news. It was not a statement of my opinion but rather a report of what I had just heard. The last part of that post was my own request when I asked that people who may have been exposed please avoid spreading the risk to others and not go on a cruise.

 

As to your feeling as to what a true hero is, I agree that some health care workers put themselves at controlled risk, however I don't know of any of them who when they kiss their spouse or kids good-by when leaving for work they know that there is a fair chance that they won't be coming home again. The same holds true for our soldiers going off to defend us. No way do health care workers fall into that category.

Edited October 19, 2014 by caladezi

[Sow There]

Ah, but reread my OP before being so judgemental. You would see that what I started with was what I had just heard reported on the news. It was not a statement of my opinion but rather a report of what I had just heard. The last part of that post was my own request when I asked that people who may have been exposed please avoid spreading the risk to others and not go on a cruise.

 

As to your feeling as to what a true hero is, I agree that some health care workers put themselves at controlled risk, however I don't know of any of them who when they kiss their spouse or kids good-by when leaving for work they know that there is a fair chance that they won't be coming home again. The same holds true for our soldiers going off to defend us. No way do health care workers fall into that category.

 

 

So this heroic woman chooses to put her life at risk to provide aid and comfort to a fellow human being should not be considered a hero?

 

Then, pray tell, what do you consider her to be? Would you be willing to do the same thing?

[Gracie115]

Ah, but reread my OP before being so judgemental. You would see that what I started with was what I had just heard reported on the news. It was not a statement of my opinion but rather a report of what I had just heard. The last part of that post was my own request when I asked that people who may have been exposed please avoid spreading the risk to others and not go on a cruise.

 

As to your feeling as to what a true hero is, I agree that some health care workers put themselves at controlled risk, however I don't know of any of them who when they kiss their spouse or kids good-by when leaving for work they know that there is a fair chance that they won't be coming home again. The same holds true for our soldiers going off to defend us. No way do health care workers fall into that category.

 

I don't know what "news" you listen to but I suggest you find a new outlet that actually verifies facts before spewing nonsense that only creates hysteria.... I listen to many different news outlets and not a single one ever said the person in question was "now showing symptoms" ... what outlet stated that?

 

Heroes are heroes......not going to get into who is "more of a hero" :rolleyes:

[happyiam]

Until you have walked a mile in this person's shoes....do not judge, lest you be judged.

 

I am an RN who worked in a Toronto hospital during our SARS outbreak. We received different protocols daily on what to wear and how to care for our patients with SARS. It was a very confusing and stressful time for us, as is this for the health care workers in the US. I had co-workers that had to isolate themselves from their families totally as they were exposed to SARS before they knew a set protocol was insufficient. You never knew what to do and had to trust those giving us directions.

 

Since then new protocols were standardized, until Ebola came along. At first the health agency said we were prepared. Our association and union spoke up and said no we aren't! They watched what was happening to staff in Texas and realized we needed to get proper equipment that is to be used for Ebola suspected cases.

 

I don't want to be called a hero for caring for someone ill. That's not why I became a nurse 35+ year ago. I do want people to respect the job we do that can be difficult at times for many reasons. We may never know all the facts behind what had occurred with this lab technician, but give her the benefit of the doubt. It's stressful enough for health care workers right now without the public assuming they know better.

 

I apologize for the rant. I have left over frustration with our health agency (gov't) from what we went through. I wish everyone safe and healthy cruises.

[Hondu]

When reading some of the hysterical posts, it seems these individuals are just clones of the media frenzy. The healthcare worker did nothing wrong and by speaking up and then volunteering to stay confined in the cabin shows she is a remarkable human being.

[notjaded]

What is the protocol if she had started showing symptoms while on the cruise? No one has answered this question on any forum. I suspect many people just don't have an answer so they ignore the question. I mean it worked out THIS TIME, so why bother knowing the answer anyways.

 

It is a disgrace, in my opinion, to liken her actions to those of 9/11 first responders. They are true heroes who we continually honor and will never forget their sacrifices. In my opinion this is a woman who did not think about potential consequences (she boarded at day 14 out of 21 day self-monitor period). Should CDC have better protocol and procedures? YES. Does that absolve a health care professional from making poor judgment calls? Absolutely not in my book. She should be held to a higher standard and quite frankly knowing the case she was involved in she should have exhibited an abundance of caution and delayed her trip until it was certain that she did not have the disease. Plain and simple. I had a hard enough time understanding the defense of her decision, to liken her to 9/11 first responders is beyond imagination.

 

These are MY opinions. I am sure many don't agree. We all get to have our opinions and view points. I am glad this worked out this time, but many of you would be singing a very different tune if it did not work out whereas I would still have the same exact opinion; she should have known better and she should not have boarded that ship during the self-monitor incubation period. No one can make a reasonable argument that she acted with an abundance of caution; I mean she went from truly believing she was fine to being quarantined, so there was at least reasonable doubt as to her own self-diagnosis (and she is a lab supervisor, NOT a doctor. She is not qualified to make that call about herself during the incubation period...)

 

These are all facts of the matter.

 

Well said. +1

[notjaded]

So this heroic woman chooses to put her life at risk to provide aid and comfort to a fellow human being should not be considered a hero?

 

Then, pray tell, what do you consider her to be? Would you be willing to do the same thing?

 

Here is a simple test of who is a "hero:" A hero runs toward danger when others run from it.

 

By this test, health care workers KNOWINGLY treating highly infectious diseases qualify.

[cle-guy]

And how many who contracted Ebola here in the US have died?

 

So far zero, zilch, nada. :D

[caladezi]

Until you have walked a mile in this person's shoes....do not judge, lest you be judged.

 

 

How does 30 years on a very large Fire Department in Illinois, with the last 10 years as a Battalion Chief in a busy district sound. I never considered myself a hero although there were many times we were running in when others were running out We did the job and did what was necessary. I have been honored to work with true heroes who risked their lives, and in some cases gave theirs, to save others. I think that I qualify to wear the shoes.

 

I'm not trying to disparage anyone in the healthcare industry but the term hero doesn't apply IMHO. If it makes you feel better to consider yourself a "hero" then go ahead. In our society today we lower the flag to half staff when any public office holder dies, we give all of the kids trophies at athletic events and we now call someone who works in a lab a hero for doing the job they were hired to do.

[jszpira]

Most important question: did the lab worker and her companion get the same $200 OBC and 50% off future cruise as all the other passengers?

[happyiam]

Did you read my whole rant? I said I didn't consider myself a hero...I most certainly do think you are a hero and thank you for your service. I would never presume to judge what you do, or have to face daily, as I have no idea. It is just my opinion, and beliefs, that unless we are right there and present during a situation, then we should not judge someone.

PS. I did work with a nurse that lost her life during SARS, just doing her job also.

[Sow There]

To me, a simple person, anyone who voluntarily chooses a profession that involves exposing himself/herself to serious or life risking occurrences is a very special person deserving of our thanks and gratitude.

 

When bureaucrats issue faulty "protocols," they deserve our scorn; especially when those professionals follow those protocols to the letter.

 

In my various encounters with professional nurses and with cops, military, EMT's and firemen, I am always impressed by their focus on concern # 1, their dedication to the public they are serving.

 

If only the people in charge of writing the protocols had the same level of dedication to the people they serve, we'd all be far better off.

[Sloop-JohnB]

Did you read my whole rant? I said I didn't consider myself a hero...I most certainly do think you are a hero and thank you for your service. I would never presume to judge what you do, or have to face daily, as I have no idea. It is just my opinion, and beliefs, that unless we are right there and present during a situation, then we should not judge someone.

 

PS. I did work with a nurse that lost her life during SARS, just doing her job also.

 

Exactly.

 

As a fellow Canadian / Ontarian let me say THANK YOU for the service you gave this Country, this Province, Toronto... And most importantly your fellow man & womankind unselfishly with little thought to yourself (although I am quite certain you thought often of the possible sacrifice in terms of your own family) at a time when you were most needed.

 

Yes you my dear ARE A HERO to me

 

Funny how the world seems to have forgotten the SARS crisis now some 10+ years on

 

No doubt because we were able to come out the other side SARS free

 

We did that BECAUSE of those like yourself who were there to serve, or as another Poster said "run in... When others were running out / away"

 

I SINCERELY thank you

 

Cheers!

Ps... Says something sadly about our society that we can send out a lynching party practically after these Medical Personnel "in the light of day"... But if either had died on the job itself, it would be a whole other story. They do / did their jobs based on the info they have at the time. Nothing more. Same thing as any other front line job (Military - Police - Fire - EMTs etc). Always easy I say to throw rocks / hurl abuse at the one at the front of the line... Cause ya they are the most visible

Edited October 19, 2014 by Sloop-JohnB

[Welland]

She has tested NEGATIVE for the ebola virus.

 

Hopefully people won't jump to conclusions in the future.

 

Happy cruising everyone.

[Gracie115]

She has tested NEGATIVE for the ebola virus.

 

Hopefully people won't jump to conclusions in the future.

 

Happy cruising everyone.

 

THAT would be a wonderful thing......

[happyiam]

Sloop-JohnB--I appreciated your kind words to me and my profession earlier.

 

I have to say that I do hope all cruise lines develop a plan for any potential future incidents, if they haven't already. One that will protect passengers and crew.

 

Side note: We received on Friday new directives for the care of suspected Ebola patients in ER and on the units, as well as for staff that may have been contaminated. There will also be dedicated ambulances for transfers of suspected cases. Better to err on the side of caution as it is easier to eliminate unnecessary equipment than it is to add it once it has spread. Best wishes to all that this will settle down and any future problems will be handled safely for all.

[MizDemeanor]

Sloop-JohnB--I appreciated your kind words to me and my profession earlier.

 

I have to say that I do hope all cruise lines develop a plan for any potential future incidents, if they haven't already. One that will protect passengers and crew.

 

Side note: We received on Friday new directives for the care of suspected Ebola patients in ER and on the units, as well as for staff that may have been contaminated. There will also be dedicated ambulances for transfers of suspected cases. Better to err on the side of caution as it is easier to eliminate unnecessary equipment than it is to add it once it has spread. Best wishes to all that this will settle down and any future problems will be handled safely for all.

 

Great news. That's what has to happen on a proactive basis. Sounds like you've got your hands wrapped around this issue. Lead the way, others need that sort of example and guidance.

[vulcan1971]

Whilst following this thread and worse, the hysterical media coverage, I kept thinking about this heroic woman who, not only chose a selfless and wonderful profession, she also followed all the directives issued by the dolts who should have, but did not, fully study and communicate protocols more completely.

 

More to the point, she would have been better off, personally, just keeping her mouth shut and no one would ever have known. But again, in a selfless move, she sjhowed much more concern about the health of the public than whe was worried about her own situation.

 

Unfortunately her heroism will probably go unrecognized and she will continue to be vilified for interfering with a few thoughtless Carnival cruisers who missed a chance to visit Belize.

 

Herbanrenewal, your post totally nailed it and said exactly what I was thinking. Thnaks for your terrific post.

 

 

 

 

I am disturbed by comments like this.

These nurses risked their lives, as all health care workers do every day, using the best evidence based practices available to them at the point in time.

 

The nurse with the temp of 99.5 called the contact she was given at the CDC and told she could travel. She did NOT disobey directions to take her temperature twice a day, and did notify the contact she was given of a low elevation (not fever). She did exactly as she was told by the people who we as a nation trust to protect us.

 

The lab tech was also told that she should take her temp twice a day and report elevations, which she never had, but did inform Carnival personnel when she heard about the nurse who had travelled. She and her husband also self isolated.

She also was tested before the ship docked and results should be available today, which is also the last day of the incubation period - if she was infected she would have symptoms by now. If the world's medical personnel are correct, without symptoms she was never a danger to others. She did everything in her power to protect others.

 

Instead of uninformed statements vilifying these people we should be treating them like the firefighters on 9/11. They willingly put themselves in positions of danger to try to save lives. They used the information available at THAT point in time to try to save lives.

The fact that in retrospect the information they had was inadequate does not make them culpable for the after effects.

 

 

+1

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus on the T-Mobile 4G LTE Network using Tapatalk Pro

[MizDemeanor]

Are you thinking that because this is about Carnival it's sort of ok to keep it open?

 

I am thinking it could have been any cruise line.

 

Any one of them.

 

Thankfully it appears this particular ship full of people are going to physically be ok for themselves, their families and their friends.

[wallie5446]

I am thinking it could have been any cruise line.

 

Any one of them.

 

Thankfully it appears this particular ship full of people are going to physically be ok for themselves, their families and their friends.

 

Yes indeed. 3700 people sailing were very fortunate this time. The next, who knows.