Hanidcapped-recent knee injury-no hc cabins available

[earljr]

Waterrats --

 

I am of the "bone creaking age" and I agree 100 percent with your observation. I would not ever want to do anything other than do good for those not as blessed as I am.

 

Earl

[waterrats]

Waterrats --

 

I am of the "bone creaking age" and I agree 100 percent with your observation. I would not ever want to do anything other than do good for those not as blessed as I am.

 

Earl

 

Hey Earl - Well I am sure you will be walking a bit slower when you get on CB on the 24th after your first week on her the week before. Say Hi to Rich, Fran, and the Canadians for us.

[montgomeryfamily]

It was suggested by earlier posters that the Grand Class ships had two minisuites which were wheelchair accessible--D732 and D733. Unfortunately, these two staterooms are not wheelchair accessible as the doors are too narrow for the wheelchairs to get through.

 

Apparently these staterooms have a shower with a shower seat and railings in the bathroom, all which would be good for disabled passengers. So I contacted Princess to find out the doorway widths. The doorways of accessible staterooms are 33 inches wide. This width is necessary for wheelchairs to be able to get through the door of the stateroom. Unfortunately the doorway width of the outside cabin door of D732 and D733 on most of the Grand Class ships is only 22 inches. The doorway of the Caribbean Princess is slightly larger--24 inches.

 

In addition, there is a 14 centimeter step into the bathroom from within the stateroom So although this stateroom has a shower, the occupants would have to go up a small step to enter the bathroom. Also, the bathroom doorway width is 22 inches.

 

Regretfully, with the narrow doorways, these two staterooms are not considered accessible, as persons who are confined to wheelchairs would not be able to enter the stateroom. Having a shower alone doesn't make the stateroom accessible, as the passengers do need to be able to get into the cabin and also to get into the bathroom and over the small step.

 

The Princess representative advised me that this is why these two staterooms were reclassified from being HC cabins. The Princess representative also advised me that there are no Grand Class minisuites which are wheelchair accessible nor are there any suites.

 

These two staterooms would be good for disabled passengers who are not confined to a wheelchair or who do not depend on a walker (a walker would have to be turned sideways for the person to enter through the doorway) and who can climb up a small step, but that who do need a handheld shower, built in shower seat and a bathroom with railings for additional support. (Also, a scooter would have to be left out in the hallway.) Since these two staterooms-D732 and 733- are not designated for disabled nor are they reserved, anyone who has these particular needs would need to book early to be sure and get one of them.

 

Thanks anyway to those who suggested these staterooms as possibilities for disabled passengers.

[Tinknock50]

 

On the flip-side, ADA only requires availability of access to venues but does not guarantee access. They could impose a policy similar to sports venues: Handicapped access rooms are to be the last ones sold unless a passenger provides proper documentation. But once all other cabins are full, these cabins can be sold to anyone. The old "you snooze, you lose" philosophy. That would protect the cabins for as long as possible, but not keep them from going empty on full sailings.

 

On my recent booking they seem to be doing what you say. The last 2 staterooms in my category were handicapped. There was still one regular stateroom availiable, so I booked that. Later I decided to take my wheel chair-bound Mom, but it was too late and the HC were gone. I booked an inside HC for her because fortunately there was one open.

[Druke I]

Some (but certainly not all) of the problems occur because European standards for handicap accessibility are different than the US ADA standards, and almost all the passenger ships in US service are European built. You may have noticed that most ship supplied on-board wheelchairs are narrower than the U S standard (and reserved for emergency use only).

 

An example of that differing standard was the late great Royal Princess (now P&O's Artemis). When she first came out, she was advertised as 100% accessible. After passage of ADA in the States, they had to reclassify the ship, change their advertising, and rebuild several cabins to meet ADA regulations.

[arabrab]

I don't see any reason why cruise ships shouldn't be held to the same basic ADA standards as hotels: for hotels with 1000 (or more) rooms, they are required to have 20 of those be accessible rooms, plus 1 additional accessible room for every 100 incremental rooms. 1 room with roll in shower is required for every 100 rooms. Furthermore, hotels are required to distribute accessible rooms accross the full range of types of rooms or suites that the hotel offers. They can't locate all or most all of them in the lowest (or highest) category of room. If anything, cruise ships should probably have more accessible rooms since the population tends to reflect a higher percentage of senior citizens, who are more likely to be mobility impaired.

 

There is a very readable government document on Common ADA Hotel Problems at

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:OBadfu0DfsUJ:www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/comhotel.pdf+Common+ADA+mistakes+hotels&hl=en&client=firefox-a

 

The Department of Justice has entered into consent decrees with quite a few of the hotel chains, including Days Inn, Bass Hotels (Holiday Inns), and Intercontinental Group. The relevant section of the Bass consent decree outlines the reservations practices:

 

a. Each Holiday Inn hotel which has rooms designated as accessible in each of the two room categories (one-bedded and two-bedded), will be required to hold one such room as the last room rented in each category, except to fulfill a request for an accessible room for disability-related reasons (on a self-reporting basis). Those hotels which have rooms designated as accessible in only one category shall hold two accessible rooms as the last rooms rented. Those rooms designated as accessible which are held, pursuant to this paragraph, as the last rooms rented, shall be standard rooms. "Standard room" does not include suites or other premium-priced rooms, unless the applicable hotel is an all-suite hotel. Hotel employees or reservations agents shall have no obligation to verify the disability.

b. Rooms designated as accessible shall be rented only to persons specifically requesting such rooms for disability-related reasons (on a self-reporting basis), except where they are the last rooms available for rental, up until the standard cutoff time for non-guaranteed reservations. The standard cutoff time is currently 6:00 p.m., except in certain limited locations where BHR has granted a waiver pursuant to industry practice in that location. Hotel employees or reservations agents shall have no obligation to verify the disability.

c. Guests renting an accessible room who have not specifically requested such a room for disability-related reasons will be advised in writing when occupying an accessible room that they may be moved the next day if the accessible room is subsequently needed for a person with a disability and if a vacant room of that room type (either one-bed or two-bed) is available in the hotel. For this purpose, check-in personnel will use a notice containing the wording set forth in Exhibit C to this Agreement. BHR will amend its Rules for Operation to require that all Holiday Inn hotels within the United States use this notice in accordance with this Agreement. The United States agrees that any failure of check-in personnel to provide this notice shall not constitute a material breach of this Agreement under Paragraph 43, below. Hotel employees or reservation agents shall have no obligation to verify the disability.

d. A guest without a disability occupying an accessible guest room will be moved the next day from accessible rooms whenever a person with a disability requires the room, unless:

1) There are no other guest rooms of that room category (either one-bed or two-bed) available at that facility;

2) Applicable state or local law prohibits moving such guest; or

3) The hotel is unable to convince the guest to move, despite notifying the guest (either by phone, in person or in writing) of the necessity that the room be turned over to a person with a disability, and reminding the guest without a disability that he/she was informed, in writing, that he/she would be assisted by hotel staff in moving to a comparable room in the hotel.

It would seem that, with the substitution of a reasonable date, such as 6 weeks before sailing, that the same practices should apply in the cruise industry, for cruises that originate or call at US ports.

 

I will say that despite all of these rules, the extent of non-compliance in the hotel industry is enormous. The local Marriot, built after 2000, does not have the guest rooms distributed across many different types of rooms, there aren't enough roll-in showers and the parking spaces don't meet code, and many of the so-called accessible rooms don't have the correct clearance around beds. So, there is a lot of compliance work that still needs to happen.

 

The original poster had a problem that was unlikely to be well accomodated under any scenario, but for the bulk of the disabled travelling public, the cruise industry has been an example of an industry that has largely made institutional choices to be relatively unaccomodating. Fortunately, there have always been many individual crew members who have been more than kind and helpful, and with luck, and some decent enforcement, we should see some much better ADA compliance in the ships launching in 2008 and beyond.

 

Cheers,

Barb

[serene56]

Not having read the whole thread--sorry-

we are cruising on the Liberty in February. A friend of ours decided to go and he is in a wheel chair. We called special services and told them what we needed. There were no more hc cabins available. Becuase he was able to show just cause the people who were booked in the cabin were bumped out of there.

We were also told that if one was not available the bathroom in another cabin would be converted...although the door will not accomadate a chair. So the cruiselines were able to work with me. Paper work needed to be fileld out but well worth it. Call the special services of Princess and see what they can offer.

[cloveygrl]

I am going on a cruise with my mom and my aunt. My mom is disabled (sticker and all) but can walk for short distances before her fake hips/knees/arthritis kick in. I booked a princess wheelchair but felt guilty booking a handicapped cabin since I figured someone would probably need it more than us! If I had known they were just going to be snapped up by people wanting bigger cabins I would have booked one so we actually had room to put the wheelchair and all of us somewhere. :mad:

[serene56]

yes--you should have taken the cabin. The wheel chair willnot fit in a reg cabin door so your mom is gonna have to get up and walk into the cabin--then fold the chair and take it in. Then the bathroom miight be another issue alltogether. I know on Carnival there is a step up to get in there.

[Splinter]

There are proposed ADA standards for cruise ships. They have not been implemented yet, but since the Supreme Court decision that the ADA does apply to cruise ships if they have a stop in the USA, they should be approved soon. The hearings on the published standards were held in June, and there was also written testimony accepted. There were fewer than 40 individuals in the entire USA who gave written testimony. If people with disabilities want things to change, they have to speak up. If you expect others to meet your needs without your input, you will be disappointed.

[Redsgj]

It was suggested by earlier posters that the Grand Class ships had two minisuites which were wheelchair accessible--D732 and D733. Unfortunately, these two staterooms are not wheelchair accessible as the doors are too narrow for the wheelchairs to get through.

 

Apparently these staterooms have a shower with a shower seat and railings in the bathroom, all which would be good for disabled passengers. So I contacted Princess to find out the doorway widths. The doorways of accessible staterooms are 33 inches wide. This width is necessary for wheelchairs to be able to get through the door of the stateroom. Unfortunately the doorway width of the outside cabin door of D732 and D733 on most of the Grand Class ships is only 22 inches. The doorway of the Caribbean Princess is slightly larger--24 inches.

 

In addition, there is a 14 centimeter step into the bathroom from within the stateroom So although this stateroom has a shower, the occupants would have to go up a small step to enter the bathroom. Also, the bathroom doorway width is 22 inches.

 

Regretfully, with the narrow doorways, these two staterooms are not considered accessible, as persons who are confined to wheelchairs would not be able to enter the stateroom. Having a shower alone doesn't make the stateroom accessible, as the passengers do need to be able to get into the cabin and also to get into the bathroom and over the small step.

 

The Princess representative advised me that this is why these two staterooms were reclassified from being HC cabins. The Princess representative also advised me that there are no Grand Class minisuites which are wheelchair accessible nor are there any suites.

 

These two staterooms would be good for disabled passengers who are not confined to a wheelchair or who do not depend on a walker (a walker would have to be turned sideways for the person to enter through the doorway) and who can climb up a small step, but that who do need a handheld shower, built in shower seat and a bathroom with railings for additional support. (Also, a scooter would have to be left out in the hallway.) Since these two staterooms-D732 and 733- are not designated for disabled nor are they reserved, anyone who has these particular needs would need to book early to be sure and get one of them.

 

Thanks anyway to those who suggested these staterooms as possibilities for disabled passengers.

 

Well, once again Princess "customer service" is wrong! I was just in D733 on the CB last week and I remembered this discussion (partly because my parents are both handicapped and have cruised so I can relate to the subject!) so I took the time to measure the doorways!

 

Both of the doorways (hall and bathroom) are 32 inches - that is the "clearable opening" - not the width of the door. I'm not sure if perhaps that is why they don't qualify for the ADA (32 vs 33 inches???).

 

There is NO step at all into the bathroom - just a less than one inch rise which is ramped with a permanent metal threshold. There is the standard edge to clear to go to the balcony - approximately 5-6 inches would be my guess. The balcony door does open wider than the standard minisuite so if they had ramps (which I have seen in pictures of these cabins on other ships) it would be possible to access the balcony.

 

I'm fairly sure a scooter would be able to get into the room as the hallway is reasonably wide.

 

Also, there is a smaller couch in the room (two seater - no sofa bed) as well as a chair which you could have removed to give the person in the wheelchair a place to "park" in the sitting area.

 

Just thought I would let everyone know the TRUE story about at least D733 on the CB. I can fairly confidently say this cabin would be fine for someone who is looking for an accessible mini-suite!