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Poll Based On Some Current Threads


delirious9876
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Tips for Children / Young People  

329 members have voted

  1. 1. Tips for Children / Young People

    • No tips for children under 5 yrs old
      9
    • No tips for children under 12 yrs old
      8
    • No tips for children under 16 yrs old
      3
    • Reduced 50% tip rate for children under 5 yrs old
      27
    • Reduced 50% tip rate for children under 12 yrs old
      12
    • Reduced 50% tip rate for children under 16 yrs old
      4
    • Every person cruising no matter what age should pay at least current suggested tip rates
      266


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So, if someone has a different opinion than yours, they are being "mean"? :eek:

 

 

 

What difference does it make if you pay in advance - which we do by choice - or pay at the end? It should all be the same amount either way. If you insist on removing the auto tips and controlling who gets the tips, you are only defeating the purpose since all cash tips MUST be turned over to the tipping pool if a person has removed those tips, and everyone who would have gotten their share with auto tips still get's it.

 

 

 

This has been documents in so many threads that it is no longer debatable.

 

 

You are free to have an opinion - but the posters that replied that 'their opinion' was the only one that was 'right' is where I take offense. I have NO issue with us having different opinions or us doing different things - but I don't think it's appropriate to ever say someone's opinions are WRONG (ie, not RIGHT)

 

 

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Per RCI, It cannot be paid at the end of the cruise with MTD. (Seems odd because we could still have random waitstaff if we don't eat in the MDR).

 

Again - I have no issues with Tipping those that assist us, but I don't like that it's a mandated breakout for adults or children. I wouldn't even mind if we paid the 12$ but got the opportunity to reallocate it differently if needed (hard to say what is needed before any given cruise!). Since that's not an option it seems, I would prefer the tips be reduced so we could then add to those who do go above and beyond.

 

I also like being able to give our tip to our room steward in person and saying thank you. It's handled now as a service charge and not as a 'thank you'. It feels cold and impersonal to prepay like a tax.

 

 

 

 

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I cannot believe the amount of effort some people go through to re-invent a process that works just fine, then rationalizing their own approach, and the endless defense of such actions. :eek:

 

I understand your desire to thank the steward in person. We do the same thing. But, we do it with either additional cash over and above the set tip amount if the service level was over and above what we expected, or a handshake and a "thank you" if they only provided expected service levels. If they excelled, we also write up a favorable comment card and turn it over to the customer service desk. These favorable comments do more for them than a larger tip, since they are a written endorsement of that person's performance levels, which is taken into consideration when promotions or repeat contracts are signed.

 

We have never had any reason to reduce the tips, ever. That is a testament to how hard these people always work to make our vacation time as pleasant as possible.

Edited by fortinweb
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Per RCI, It cannot be paid at the end of the cruise with MTD. (Seems odd because we could still have random waitstaff if we don't eat in the MDR).

 

Again - I have no issues with Tipping those that assist us, but I don't like that it's a mandated breakout for adults or children. I wouldn't even mind if we paid the 12$ but got the opportunity to reallocate it differently if needed (hard to say what is needed before any given cruise!). Since that's not an option it seems, I would prefer the tips be reduced so we could then add to those who do go above and beyond.

 

I also like being able to give our tip to our room steward in person and saying thank you. It's handled now as a service charge and not as a 'thank you'. It feels cold and impersonal to prepay like a tax.

 

 

 

 

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Ah. Now I understand.

You think it's a tip and it isn't. Its a service charge and it ISN'T a charge for exceptional or above and beyond service.

It is an unadvertised cost of the trip and it needs to paid.

Tips are what you give deserving crewmembers after paying your obligations.

Tipping the steward in person is easy. We do it all the time.

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You are free to have an opinion - but the posters that replied that 'their opinion' was the only one that was 'right' is where I take offense. I have NO issue with us having different opinions or us doing different things - but I don't think it's appropriate to ever say someone's opinions are WRONG (ie, not RIGHT)

 

 

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If you don't believe that your own opinion is the correct one, then why have it in the first place? If a person's opinion is not the "correct" one, then that means that someone else's must be, so the person might as well change his opinion to the one that is correct.

 

I'm sorry that you so doubt your opinion that you aren't confident enough to tell people that it is the correct one. :D

Edited by SantaFeFan
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If you don't believe that your own opinion is the correct one, then why have it in the first place? If a person's opinion is not the "correct" one, then that means that someone else's must be, so the person might as well change his opinion to the one that is correct.

 

I'm sorry that you so doubt your opinion that you aren't confident enough to tell people that it is the correct one. :D

 

 

I'm not sure where you live or where you work, but where I live and where I work, it's imperative that we accept and respect diversity of thought and keep an open mind. It really allows us to do some great things too!

 

By refusing to accept others thoughts /opinions as possibilities it suggests that one would never change ones mind on anything based on something someone else might have said.

 

Seems that folks here are expecting people like me to 'accept' their opinions - so I am sure that they are hoping that I have an open mind. Seems strange to suggest that I not have an open mind and only consider my current position as the RIGHT one.

 

Just seems like as a group - respecting opinions of others would be a good thing. You don't have to agree - but, in my opinion, respecting that not everyone thinks exactly the same as you would be more civil.

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm not sure where you live or where you work, but where I live and where I work, it's imperative that we accept and respect diversity of thought and keep an open mind. It really allows us to do some great things too!

 

By refusing to accept others thoughts /opinions as possibilities it suggests that one would never change ones mind on anything based on something someone else might have said.

 

Seems that folks here are expecting people like me to 'accept' their opinions - so I am sure that they are hoping that I have an open mind. Seems strange to suggest that I not have an open mind and only consider my current position as the RIGHT one.

 

Just seems like as a group - respecting opinions of others would be a good thing. You don't have to agree - but, in my opinion, respecting that not everyone thinks exactly the same as you would be more civil.

 

 

 

 

 

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Sorry, but but where I live and where I work an 80% majority pretty much confirms that there is one opinion that is by far the most "correct". You have every right to your diversity of thought, but that doesn't make your minority opinion very strong. If this topic were an election for public office, with people voting for the candidate that in their opinion was the most qualified, 81% of the vote would be considered a "landslide victory". ;)

 

Also, and more importantly, opinions on the matter of what is the appropriate amount of tipping affects others besides ourselves - the very hard working, very helpful ship staff who rely heavily on these tips. A person may have the opinion that they don't have to pay the tips, but following through on that opinion hurts other people financially. So it becomes a bigger issue than just an argument over who's opinion is the most correct.

 

When considering that staff members will be negatively affected by someone following up on an opinion that the staff doesn't deserve certain kinds of tips, it becomes a moral issue rather than a freedom of opinion issue.

 

And that is my opinion (as well as the opinion of the other 80% of the people responding to the poll).

Edited by SantaFeFan
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If this topic were an election for public office, with people voting for the candidate that in their opinion was the most qualified, 81% of the vote would be considered a "landslide victory". ;)

 

In the world of politics, 81% of the vote would be called a mandate. :D:p

 

man·date

ˈmanˌdāt

noun

1.

an official order or commission to do something.

synonyms: instruction, directive, decree, command, order, injunction, edict, charge, commission, bidding, ruling, fiat; formal ordinance

"a mandate from the UN"

 

2.

the authority to carry out a policy or course of action, regarded as given by the electorate to a candidate or party that is victorious in an election.

synonyms: authority, approval, acceptance, ratification, endorsement, sanction, authorization

"they won a mandate to form the government"

Edited by sloopsailor
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Some CC members are just plain evil, unempathic and totally self important judging by their horrible posts on here. You know who you are !

 

Wow! I mean wow! Or should i say, I guess you were thinking about yourself when you said this, right? Not only don't I agree with your opinion I find that the further I've read down the more childish your rebuttal comments have become. Respect goes both ways. Perhaps you should try it.

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I'm not sure where you live or where you work, but where I live and where I work, it's imperative that we accept and respect diversity of thought and keep an open mind. It really allows us to do some great things too!

 

By refusing to accept others thoughts /opinions as possibilities it suggests that one would never change ones mind on anything based on something someone else might have said.

 

Seems that folks here are expecting people like me to 'accept' their opinions - so I am sure that they are hoping that I have an open mind. Seems strange to suggest that I not have an open mind and only consider my current position as the RIGHT one.

 

Just seems like as a group - respecting opinions of others would be a good thing. You don't have to agree - but, in my opinion, respecting that not everyone thinks exactly the same as you would be more civil.

 

 

 

 

 

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Well, obviously, if you were correct, we'd be in agreement.

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Well, this poll/thread has become a bit of a joke and I don't doubt it will be shut down. However, I have been thinking on this and I'd like to add my 2 cents...

this is where I'm coming from: my husband and I will be taking our children (14, 12, 10, 6, 3) on a 12 day cruise next month. Our gratuities will amount to over $1000. yes, OUCH.

do I have that money set aside? YES. Do I plan on paying it? YES. Would I love to find some "legitimate"way to rationalize reducing that amount? :cool: I'm not a millionaire, of course. But again, for emphasis, do I plan on paying my suggested gratuities for all 7 of us: YES.

 

However....

 

I also work as a waitress. In my line of work somewhere between 15-20% is considered standard. Note: that is a PERCENTAGE. so if I have a table of 4 adults who order meals and drinks and their bill is $80, I'm looking at $12-16+ (and yes, I'm a dang good waitress, in case that counts for anything :cool:). If I have a table of 2 adults and 2 children they may have a bill of only $40 or $50, so I'm looking at tip of $6-10ish. Do I work just as hard if not harder, bringing crayons, asking ages and cooing, cleaning up the smashed crackers and spilled drinks? Yes, but that's life. I will work just as hard for that $6 as I will for that $16, because that is my JOB. And the fact is children's meals do not cost as much, and so my percentage will not be as much.

 

However, on the plus side, children can be a LOT less demanding and annoying than their adult counterparts....so there's that...:o

 

My point is, the "tips" I'm "suggested" to pay on this cruise amount to OVER 30% of my fare. Personally, I would absolutely love if my boss would add a flat rate "suggested gratuity" to each diner who walked in the door--regardless of age or total bill. But that's not the way it works. (Those of you about to comment that you always tip 25%/add extra if there's children/whatever, please save your breath. You are amazing and wonderful and a very, very rare breed and I wish you would come to my restaurant, because the general public does NOT do that)

 

All that leads me to...

 

My GUT tells me that no, I personally do not feel I need to tip the same amount for my children under 5 or 6, or 3rd/4th passengers as myself, my husband and our older children.** As 3rd and 4th passengers, I didn't pay the same fares for some of them. So by virtue of their age, and/or as a percentage of their "bill", not the same $12/day.**

Say what you want about more people = more mess in a cabin, but that's not always true. Our rooms are clean when we leave because i teach my children to pick up after themselves. The steward will clean our bathroom for 2 adults as much as he will the bathroom for 5 children.

 

As far as "well thats you, but other people may not be so neat with 4 people in a cabin", well, that doesn't really matter. 1 or 2 people can be complete slobs in a room. 4 people can be neat. The number of people does not determine the amount of mess. The only guarantee is there will be extra beds to make up. Why not fill out a "cleanliness questionaire" along with the health questionaire, and then charge accordingly. I'm sure everyone will be just as honest on the former as they are on the latter.**

 

one Last Thought before I go...

 

2 hotel rooms for 7 people for 12 nights @ $10/day to cleaning staff: $240

Buffet breakfast 12 days table cleaning tip: $120

Takeout/fast casual lunch 12 days: $0

Fine dining for 7, 8 nights tipping on approx $160: $256

Buffet dinner 4 nights: $40

misc. (high tea, Seuss breakfast, etc.) $100

-------------------------------------------

$756

 

But just one last time, so we're clear, and for those in the cheap seats: will I be paying the "suggested gratuity " amount of over $1000? YES. Because that's the way it works in the cruise industry.

 

**before you flame me for these statements, please refer to the above sentence. Thank you.

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But just one last time, so we're clear, and for those in the cheap seats: will I be paying the "suggested gratuity " amount of over $1000? YES. Because that's the way it works in the cruise industry.

 

**before you flame me for these statements, please refer to the above sentence. Thank you.

 

No flaming from me. I commend you for planning to tip the suggested amount in spite of your personal opinion. That you understand the rational and purpose of the tip policy is a point in your favor. That you will not stubbornly insist on doing it your way is another point. I wish that 19% of the poll takers (you know who you are) would read your post closely and use you as an example of what 81% of us believe is the best approach to tipping in this situation.

 

Bravo for your approach to this often volatile topic.

Edited by SantaFeFan
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Also, per carnival's F.A.Q, Grats do not apply to childen under 2.

 

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/FAQs/#q-267

 

So yes, it would seem the stateroom attendants are expected to deal with dirty diapers with no further compensation.

 

Historical note: This thread started on the Royal Caribbean boards and was moved here by the moderators. Those booking Royal Caribbean cruises with children best know that full tips are the expectation at all ages. So, on that line. The attendants do expect extra compensation for dirty diapers (and any and all the other possible needs). the thread's origin may impact some people,s posts; a substantial number of the poster likely followed the thread from that forum to this one.

 

Other cruise lines have other policies; this poster cites Carnival. I think NCL might also have a different policy. If the cost of tips or the principle is terribly important to somebody, they might strongly consider those other lines. Vote with your feet if $12 per kid per day is important. it is nice to have so many wonderful options.

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Well, this poll/thread has become a bit of a joke and I don't doubt it will be shut down. However, I have been thinking on this and I'd like to add my 2 cents...

this is where I'm coming from: my husband and I will be taking our children (14, 12, 10, 6, 3) on a 12 day cruise next month. Our gratuities will amount to over $1000. yes, OUCH.

do I have that money set aside? YES. Do I plan on paying it? YES. Would I love to find some "legitimate"way to rationalize reducing that amount? :cool: I'm not a millionaire, of course. But again, for emphasis, do I plan on paying my suggested gratuities for all 7 of us: YES.

 

However....

 

I also work as a waitress. In my line of work somewhere between 15-20% is considered standard. Note: that is a PERCENTAGE. so if I have a table of 4 adults who order meals and drinks and their bill is $80, I'm looking at $12-16+ (and yes, I'm a dang good waitress, in case that counts for anything :cool:). If I have a table of 2 adults and 2 children they may have a bill of only $40 or $50, so I'm looking at tip of $6-10ish. Do I work just as hard if not harder, bringing crayons, asking ages and cooing, cleaning up the smashed crackers and spilled drinks? Yes, but that's life. I will work just as hard for that $6 as I will for that $16, because that is my JOB. And the fact is children's meals do not cost as much, and so my percentage will not be as much.

 

However, on the plus side, children can be a LOT less demanding and annoying than their adult counterparts....so there's that...:o

 

My point is, the "tips" I'm "suggested" to pay on this cruise amount to OVER 30% of my fare. Personally, I would absolutely love if my boss would add a flat rate "suggested gratuity" to each diner who walked in the door--regardless of age or total bill. But that's not the way it works. (Those of you about to comment that you always tip 25%/add extra if there's children/whatever, please save your breath. You are amazing and wonderful and a very, very rare breed and I wish you would come to my restaurant, because the general public does NOT do that)

 

All that leads me to...

 

My GUT tells me that no, I personally do not feel I need to tip the same amount for my children under 5 or 6, or 3rd/4th passengers as myself, my husband and our older children.** As 3rd and 4th passengers, I didn't pay the same fares for some of them. So by virtue of their age, and/or as a percentage of their "bill", not the same $12/day.**

Say what you want about more people = more mess in a cabin, but that's not always true. Our rooms are clean when we leave because i teach my children to pick up after themselves. The steward will clean our bathroom for 2 adults as much as he will the bathroom for 5 children.

 

As far as "well thats you, but other people may not be so neat with 4 people in a cabin", well, that doesn't really matter. 1 or 2 people can be complete slobs in a room. 4 people can be neat. The number of people does not determine the amount of mess. The only guarantee is there will be extra beds to make up. Why not fill out a "cleanliness questionaire" along with the health questionaire, and then charge accordingly. I'm sure everyone will be just as honest on the former as they are on the latter.**

 

one Last Thought before I go...

 

2 hotel rooms for 7 people for 12 nights @ $10/day to cleaning staff: $240

Buffet breakfast 12 days table cleaning tip: $120

Takeout/fast casual lunch 12 days: $0

Fine dining for 7, 8 nights tipping on approx $160: $256

Buffet dinner 4 nights: $40

misc. (high tea, Seuss breakfast, etc.) $100

-------------------------------------------

$756

 

But just one last time, so we're clear, and for those in the cheap seats: will I be paying the "suggested gratuity " amount of over $1000? YES. Because that's the way it works in the cruise industry.

 

**before you flame me for these statements, please refer to the above sentence. Thank you.

 

Remembering my days working my way through school as a waitress, I can empathize with some of your feelings. Reflecting on it, you make a strong case against the US custom of tipping US waitstaff as a % of the bill. It would seem much more fair to tip based on amount of service provided and quality of service provided. I try to do that to some extent, adjusting tip % way, way up if my party requires a lot of special service or occupies a table for an extended period relative to the size of the check.

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Also, per carnival's F.A.Q, Grats do not apply to childen under 2.

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/FAQs/#q-267

So yes, it would seem the stateroom attendants are expected to deal with dirty diapers with no further compensation.

As far as I know you are entirely correct when speaking about Carnival.

 

Just FYI this thread was originally a Royal Caribbean thread, where grats are expected from everyone, so it loses something in translation to a Cruise Discussion Topics board. Note that many (definitely not all) posters when this thread (and others) were specifically on the RC board said that if you aren't going to follow RC's policy and tip for your kids under 2, then you should sail on Carnival where the policy is different.

 

Whether stateroom attendants in general should be tipped for children is still a valid topic on this general board.

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...Reflecting on it, you make a strong case against the US custom of tipping US waitstaff as a % of the bill. It would seem much more fair to tip based on amount of service provided and quality of service provided...
I agree. I prefer water to soft drinks, and it is just as much trouble to keep my water glass full, as to provide me with a priced-tagged beverage. It is also just as much effort to take an order for and deliver a hamburger as a lobster. Since my bill is often on the low side for the amount of service required, IMO it is only fair that I tip more than some "correct" percentage.

 

Thom

 

I see now that Starry Eyes had already posted about the history of this thread; sorry - I missed that when I wrote my previous post.

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I agree. I prefer water to soft drinks, and it is just as much trouble to keep my water glass full, as to provide me with a priced-tagged beverage. It is also just as much effort to take an order for and deliver a hamburger as a lobster. Since my bill is often on the low side for the amount of service required, IMO it is only fair that I tip more than some "correct" percentage.

 

Thom

 

I see now that Starry Eyes had already posted about the history of this thread; sorry - I missed that when I wrote my previous post.

So you are tipping based on services received and how you value those services as opposed to a strict percentage or guideline. That seems reasonable to me.

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Interesting. All this flack because the cruise lines don't pay some of their employees a living wage. If all the cruise lines added the gratuities, suggested tips, service charge or whatever they call it to the cost of the cruise it would be a non issue.

 

So folks here are bashing each other for a problem mostly resulting from the cruise lines' policy. I suggest the cruise lines pay all their employees a fair wage and then passengers can tip for excellent service. JMHO.

 

 

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Edited by Viv0828
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So you are tipping based on services received and how you value those services as opposed to a strict percentage or guideline. That seems reasonable to me.
I do appreciate a guideline, to give me clue as to what is expected. I know that local norms for tipping vary enormously around the world, and I consider local norms as well as amount and quality of service to arrive at whatever it is I arrive at. For cruise ships I consider the recommended amount (which indeed is zero on some premium lines who have built salaries for staff into their pricing) as a service charge that is the basic pay of the employee, and would not go below that for "adequate" service. Outstanding service deserves additional recognition (which may be a heartfelt thank you to the person, a mention to their boss, a letter to the Hotel Director, a mention on the After-Cruise Survey and/or CASH). I have done each of those on various occasions.

 

Thom

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Interesting. All this flack because the cruise lines don't pay some of their employees a living wage. If all the cruise lines added the gratuities, suggested tips, service charge or whatever they call it to the cost of the cruise it would be a non issue.

 

So folks here are bashing each other for a problem mostly resulting from the cruise lines' policy. I suggest the cruise lines pay all their employees a fair wage and then passengers can tip for excellent service. JMHO.

I'll repeat what I wrote early on this thread:
IMO not acknowledging that there are different business models around the world, and thinking that everyplace must operate in the fashion that you are used to, is a fault. There are places in the world where tipping is virtually unknown (eg Japan, much of the South Pacific at least until recently) and employees are paid accordingly. There are places in the world where service employees are paid nothing (eg many places in the Middle East) and survive on tips. If you are not willing to acknowledge and accept different ways of doing things in different places, perhaps travel is not appropriate.
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I do appreciate a guideline, to give me clue as to what is expected. I know that local norms for tipping vary enormously around the world, and I consider local norms as well as amount and quality of service to arrive at whatever it is I arrive at. For cruise ships I consider the recommended amount (which indeed is zero on some premium lines who have built salaries for staff into their pricing) as a service charge that is the basic pay of the employee, and would not go below that for "adequate" service. Outstanding service deserves additional recognition (which may be a heartfelt thank you to the person, a mention to their boss, a letter to the Hotel Director, a mention on the After-Cruise Survey and/or CASH). I have done each of those on various occasions.

 

Thom

 

You and I appear to have very similar philosophies in regards to giving a gratuity to someone based on the value of their services and yet I was beat up on another thread for expressing my viewpoint and operating with an option the cruise line offers and is well within the rules. Go figure...

 

As it stands, unless you have my time dining on royal caribbean, tips are not mandatory and can be adjusted up, down, or removed. I believe people should know their options and make whatever choices they decide based on the services they receive. We have always found those services to warrant more than the guidelines (on a cruise ship). The guidelines are helpful for a basic understanding but it is not the last word on the subject. What someone else chooses to tip (low, high, or average) is none of my business whatsoever as I am tipping based on the quality of services I receive and not out of guilt because the employer is ripping off the employee.

 

That is why none of the poll options fit me.

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