Sad Days... An open Letter.

[agabbymama]

I'm not an NCL cheerleader, and I only have two cruises with them, but I for one DO NOT pay extra for restaurants, spa treatments etc. I won't pay for room service nor order any drinks with the additional fees. About the only thing EXTRA I have ever paid for are excursions and photographs. And it doesn't matter which cruiseline I'm on.

 

My first cruise was in 1988 so I've seen a lot of changes as to what is included in your cruisefare. I've cruised most of the major cruiselines (Carnival, RCCI, HAL, Princess, Celebrity and NCL). If people stop paying and the ships aren't making profits, they will make changes or go under. If people continue to cruise and pay the additional fees, they will continue to raise them.

 

We can only vote with our wallet.

[klepton]

Perhaps I'm missing something, I don't follow these boards as closely as some do, but it seems to me that the gripes are about these three areas:

 

1) DSC going up - I already had a cruise booked and got an email telling me the DSC would go up on xx date, and that I could prepay them to keep the lower rate. I took advantage of the prepayment, so I was happy with the advanced communication I got regarding that.

2) Automatic 18% gratuity in specialty restaurants - What have people been tipping? It seems like this is just automating what should already have been standard. In fact, I usually tip 20% at nice restaurants so this will probably save me money. While tips should be at the consumer's discretion, I would just say if the level of service you received didn't deserve an 18% gratuity in your mind, talk to the manager/Maitre D and give them a chance to make things right for you.

3) The testing of room service charges - But this is a pilot only running on a few ships, correct? It's not a fleet-wide policy yet. I can certainly understand a little anger here if people had already booked a cruise on one of these affected ships, but it doesn't seem to justify the larger outrage.

 

I guess I can understand some annoyance/anger, but these changes as they are now, and as they were implemented, don't seem to be that nefarious to me.

 

Are there other changes I'm missing?

[LuvTheSea14]

Made a commitment a year ago to book seven cabins and bring my family of 21 on a cruise so they can all experience the love of cruises we have. Now this will cost more than we planned and some in the group were having a hard time getting the money as it was. It is too late to find a different cruise ship and change plans. I even have to tell my grandson that now SpongeBob won't be on the ship. Crazy! Changes should be on future bookings so people know up front what they are getting or not getting. Changing things on people who have already booked and planned and figured out what they are doing and how they are doing it is not right in my eyes. It is what it is. The commitment is made and we will try to figure it out and make happy memories but as the one who picked NCL and was the big cheerleader for this vacation, I feel very frustrated and a bit angry.

[spanishguy1970]

[

Originally Posted by Cauzneffct View Post

However, NCL's willingness to tinker with what is included with the fare without any advance warning is definitely something we have to keep an eye on.

 

This, however, I fully agree with.

 

Me too..

Edited April 7, 2015 by qtaromar1970

[sundercruiser]

2) Automatic 18% gratuity in specialty restaurants - What have people been tipping? It seems like this is just automating what should already have been standard. In fact, I usually tip 20% at nice restaurants so this will probably save me money. While tips should be at the consumer's discretion, I would just say if the level of service you received didn't deserve an 18% gratuity in your mind, talk to the manager/Maitre D and give them a chance to make things right for you.

 

NCL instituted DSC over a decade ago precisely because they started "Freestyle Cruising" and the old tip model no longer worked. Until a week or two ago, wait staff in specialty restaurants were INCLUDED in the DSC and there was no expectation or requirement for any further tips, over and above the DSC.

 

While apparently many cruisers did add additional tips when dining in specialties, of course not all did. That's not an argument for NCL instituting an auto-gratuity -- nobody was "stiffing" the specialty wait staff! That's just to CLARIFY that this is indeed an increase in the expected payment to dine in a specialty. You and others may feel this is entirely justified, I and others do not.

 

But it's important that we all work from the same set of facts. The 18% gratuity and service charge now included as part of specialty dining is not just a "convenience" to folks who wish to tip when they dine there (which seems to be pretty much your "argument"), it's a completely NEW charge.

[klepton]

NCL instituted DSC over a decade ago precisely because they started "Freestyle Cruising" and the old tip model no longer worked. Until a week or two ago, wait staff in specialty restaurants were INCLUDED in the DSC and there was no expectation or requirement for any further tips, over and above the DSC.

 

While apparently many cruisers did add additional tips when dining in specialties, of course not all did. That's not an argument for NCL instituting an auto-gratuity -- nobody was "stiffing" the specialty wait staff! That's just to CLARIFY that this is indeed an increase in the expected payment to dine in a specialty. You and others may feel this is entirely justified, I and others do not.

 

But it's important that we all work from the same set of facts. The 18% gratuity and service charge now included as part of specialty dining is not just a "convenience" to folks who wish to tip when they dine there (which seems to be pretty much your "argument"), it's a completely NEW charge.

 

Thanks for the clarification, I didn't know that and it certainly does explain why people are upset about that. I haven't cruised NCL in over 6 years (but have two booked now) and I didn't remember that gratuity was included in specialty restaurants before.

[NLH Arizona]

I've been one of those that doesn't have an issue with the changes and has been severely chastised and called names and told I just don't get it, along with other posters. I understand that people don't like changes. What I find so amazing is how the "loyal" customers turned so fast on NCL, with their allegations of illegal activities, saying they were unethical, screwing the customer, etc. This happened on Celebrity when they changed how they gave points to their Captain's Club and I was shocked how many "loyal" customers said they were going to leave Celebrity because the Captain's Club was one way when the booked and now it has been changed and they said the same things, that it was illegal, unethical, screwing them, etc. The changes are still in effect and everyone is still posting to the Celebrity threads a few years after the change, even one who says he isn't cruising with them anymore.

 

I think loyalty is a two way street, we as customers can't always have it our way, even though we would love to think we do and many business are very savvy in the way they make us think that it is all about us. We must understand that every business, is in the business to make money. They are not in the business to give us everything we want and if they did, they would go broke. We as customers have the decision to pick and choose what business we want to patronize, based on their policies, practices and charges/prices. I think it is fine to complain, but to vilify a company like what has been done on the other threads is totally amazing to me, but I guess I just think differently than the "loyal" NCL customers and if NCL is influenced as much by this site as some feel, I think they have had a real eye opener as to how their "loyal" customers feel about them and how they will turn on them in a New York minute.

 

Did NCL make a huge mistake on how they rolled out some of the things and did they make a huge mistake to those on the Getaway and Breakaway on how the new room service charges was implemented....a GIANT yes. Will they do better if the room service charges are implemented fleet wide, one would hope so, but as there has been complaints about their communication for years, I have my doubts.

 

Will any of this stop me from cruising with and/or suggesting this line to others, no, because I'm savvy enough to know that every cruise line has their faults as well as their strengths and NCL is no exception to that and until NCL's product becomes unappealing to me for whatever reasons, I will be on their ships, along with the other two lines that I cruise with.

Edited April 7, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[tiffygirl]

OK maywell, maybe have a bran muffin or something.

 

What I am asking is how the line is different than any other. I am genuinely curious, as I have not sailed on another cruise line. So, in terms of what you pay as fare and what you end up getting - can someone relatively reasonable explain this to me?

 

for instance i think people mean. (i don't neccessarily agree)

 

most ships have a place in the atrium or there abouts where you can get 'free' pastries (without going to the buffet)

 

now they have added Cake Bosss in the atrium in all the ships and you have to pay for it. or go to the buffet.

 

some say you have to pay for good food in the specialtiy resturants because the food in the MDR is not good. Or for the food that is offered in the specialtiy resturants, a lot of other cruise lines make those options available for everyone in the MDR

 

Some think, the entertainment ie dinner show is as well . that on NCL you have to pay for entertainment, for the same meal you can get in the MDR or the food selection is not good.

 

or the pictures. you have to buy a certain amount to get the USB (drivey thing)and then you have to pay additonal for that too.

 

or when you have to pay for room service where other cruise lines include it in the fare but will optional a la carte items.

 

They offer UBD package but don't include speciality coffee's and other lines it is included with the package

 

Its all about perception i guess

[ColinIllinois]

"Nickel and diming" is a term used by people who aren't aware consumers.

 

It's not "nickel and diming" if you do some simple research before you go on your cruise and you know what is included and what is extra before you go on said cruise.

 

And yes, I know about the bad communication on the room service charge so don't start another 89 page nutso thread about that. ;)

 

Caveat Emptor.

[Kingmaker_inc]

All the cruise lines that do not include all beverages, shore excursions and services charges in the fare, nickel & dime (aka charging extras for specialty dining, alcoholic drinks, etc).

 

OK, but what if you don't want those extras and therefore are glad to not pay for them?

 

I've never used room service, so I wouldn't want that incorporated into my fee. I barely drink alcohol, and wouldn't want to pay for that option either - because I would definitely lose money. I love the specialties, and am happy to pay to go to them.

 

I guess I find the term "nickel and diming" to be unnecessarily pejorative. To me it seems like I am getting to choose what I want to include in my base fare, and then either buying it or not.

 

BUT I agree that price changes and inclusions should not be made to already booked cruises. I don't find that fair. I guess that expression is "bait and switch".

Edited April 7, 2015 by Kingmaker_inc

[laurabegorrah]

The only new fee you have to pay is the increased DSC (and technically, you can get that removed) If an extra $6.65-$8.55 TOTAL for a normal 7 or 9 day cruise is going to make that cruise an unnecessary financial hardship, you shouldn't be spending money on a cruise! Even the increase for a suite pax is only going to be $20.65-$26.55.....I call B.S. on people saying that this is now putting a strain on the pocketbook.

 

Is it annoying to now have a pay a bit more, sure! Is it frustrating to now have to pay for something completely optional that used to be free, yes. But the doom and gloom and histrionics is almost amusing. An outsider would think NCL is asking you to pay hundreds more and not just the nickle and dimes that are actually asking for.....

[Whitnee1]

Perhaps I'm missing something, I don't follow these boards as closely as some do, but it seems to me that the gripes are about these three areas:

 

1) DSC going up - I already had a cruise booked and got an email telling me the DSC would go up on xx date, and that I could prepay them to keep the lower rate. I took advantage of the prepayment, so I was happy with the advanced communication I got regarding that.

2) Automatic 18% gratuity in specialty restaurants - What have people been tipping? It seems like this is just automating what should already have been standard. In fact, I usually tip 20% at nice restaurants so this will probably save me money. While tips should be at the consumer's discretion, I would just say if the level of service you received didn't deserve an 18% gratuity in your mind, talk to the manager/Maitre D and give them a chance to make things right for you.

3) The testing of room service charges - But this is a pilot only running on a few ships, correct? It's not a fleet-wide policy yet. I can certainly understand a little anger here if people had already booked a cruise on one of these affected ships, but it doesn't seem to justify the larger outrage.

 

I guess I can understand some annoyance/anger, but these changes as they are now, and as they were implemented, don't seem to be that nefarious to me.

 

Are there other changes I'm missing?

 

I really have not followed this from the start. That being said I always thought the charge to go to a specialty restaurant was for the "gratuity" why would you be charged an additional 18%? Secondly how will that impact those who have the free unlimited specialty dining package for free? Third what is being tested with regards to room service???

[antas901]

Made a commitment a year ago to book seven cabins and bring my family of 21 on a cruise so they can all experience the love of cruises we have. Now this will cost more than we planned and some in the group were having a hard time getting the money as it was. It is too late to find a different cruise ship and change plans. I even have to tell my grandson that now SpongeBob won't be on the ship. Crazy! Changes should be on future bookings so people know up front what they are getting or not getting. Changing things on people who have already booked and planned and figured out what they are doing and how they are doing it is not right in my eyes. It is what it is. The commitment is made and we will try to figure it out and make happy memories but as the one who picked NCL and was the big cheerleader for this vacation, I feel very frustrated and a bit angry.

 

Of all of the comments about the "changes", this is the one that I can identify with. I can understand the frustration of not having the Nickelodeon characters on the ship; that could have been a huge selling point for many people, like your grandson.

I too convinced a group (19 people total) to try NCL. I feel "responsible" (to some degree) for their enjoyment. If the service charge for room service is in effect, this will be a difference that they will notice. If they elect to bypass room service, I'm sure it won't ruin their trip :)

For the "increase" in tips (or DSC, or whatever they call it), it's only $1 per day (technically 95 cents; more in Haven cabins). My parents, who are in a Haven cabin, pre-paid their DSC as did another cabin in our group. For those who didn't pre-pay and get the savings, I've told them that they can "adjust" the DSC by 95 cents per day if it was that important to them (which I seriously doubt any of them will actually do).

With the 18% for the specialty dining, it appears that the 18% is not charged for people that have selected the "UDP" as part of the NCL promotion. So, that shouldn't be an issue :)

Finally, to one of the points the OP was making, this is a forum for comments. We can't expect everyone to have a positive comment - that's just not how this works :) If NCL is aware of these posts perhaps they will take them as constructive criticism and help keep happy customers :)

[missintuitive]

NCL stock is up. They have 4 new builds coming out. They're working on a new private island. Capturing a bigger market share and gaining more brand recognition year by year with a low promotion budget. Boy that sounds like a slide into malaise, poor government and weak ineffective leadership!

 

I doubt that NCL pays much attention to the CC boards. They probably pay more attention to their booking numbers and on board income numbers. If you all think you can do a better job maybe you should apply for a job at NCL corporate!

 

The increase in stock was under the previous leadership that didn't feel the need to advertise that he wants to squeeze $50 more additional out of every guest. I'll give it to the new guy for transparency but the execution has left a lot to be desired.

 

Only time will tell whether the stock will continue to rise. Didn't I read that the stock dropped the day it was announced that Sheenan was leaving?

 

Those cruisers that are not on cc and are not forewarned that there are gratuity and/or service fees for every service provided by the ship may not remain with ncl. I'm the type that plans everything and would hate to be surprised.

 

Carnival would be extremely smart to offer more perks for their suites at this time..especially since some cost half of what ncl is charging on certain itineraries (compare pride to gem) so ccl has wiggle room in terms of pricing.

The big ncl myth is that carnival cruisers are Walmart-types when in all actuality rcl, carnival, ncl, and even Disney attracts the same crowds...those with disposable income for a cruise.

[Love2Cruz2015]

Carnival would be extremely smart to offer more perks for their suites at this time..especially since some cost half of what ncl is charging on certain itineraries (compare pride to gem) so ccl has wiggle room in terms of pricing.

The big ncl myth is that carnival cruisers are Walmart-types when in all actuality rcl, carnival, ncl, and even Disney attracts the same crowds...those with disposable income for a cruise.

 

I cruise with both Carnival and Disney, and while Disney does have nicer boats as far as decor goes (though I'll be on the Breeze this summer and I hear it's a departure from Farkus design) I am equally satisfied by both in terms of service, but Carnival has better food. The uppity crowd that likes to put down Carnival has either never been on Carnival or they just like being negative. Either way, Carnival is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

And I agree, this is the time for Carnival to pick up the NCL deserters and wow them with not only good value, but the good service they are known for.

[rvsullivan]

Cheerleaders or jeerleaders, all titles that disparage someone on the other side of the argument. I did not make a single post on these topics until the numbers reached over two thousand and quite honestly were getting pretty crazy. After 10 days or so of craziness, it finally starting to quiet down, so the few (20 or so) that are trying to keep this going started jumping on every post they could to scare folks. Example, a poster asks, "how much is the UDP", a few answers then here come the scare tactics. "Well, it's only xxx dollars, but with the nasty, underhanded tricks that NCL is now pulling, that price may not be good next week/month/year!!! If you book with NCL you never know what they might do next." Newcomer then asks, "what's going on, I thought NCL was a good company"? "Nope, there stealing money from the staff and claiming it's for the crew, but we know they're keeping it."

Let it go.

I've traveled all of my life for business, hundreds of days a year. In all those years, no travel related business, hotel, airlines nor car rental agencies ever contacted me in advance to ask/tell me there would be a price increase next week/month/year. None of my favorite restaurants have either. Of course the airlines let me keep my base fare the same, but they didn't grandfather me when they started charging for luggage. The car rental agencies let me keep my daily rental rate that I booked, but they didn't call me ahead of time to tell me about the new drop off fee. Same with my local steakhouse, they raised the rates across the board, they didn't call me and say, "oh by the way, that reservation you made two weeks ago, we just increased the cost of all our food, do you want to cancel?"

NCL owed all of us to keep the cost of our cruise fare. Beyond that, they are free to change what they need.

NCL is a profitable business, they decided to maintain/increase their profits, we can either go along or move on. Trying to convert everyone into some kind of mutiny is silly. CC member at best make up a couple of percentage points of NCL's business. They've been kind to us in hosting a party on every cruise for us. We don't have the clout to make business decisions for them and probably shouldn't anyway. They know better than we what they need to run their business.

As for all this business of FDR ruining the company, my guess (as good as your speculation) is, he didn't call up and say "lets increase the DSC", but more likely told the CEO of NCL, find another 5% in revenue right now". Everyone needs to remember, NCL actually has a CEO and it's not FDR.

[simplyerica]

As someone new to both cruising and cruise critic, this post makes me feel a little better. It's so overwhelming and depressing to come to the NCL thread when I'm over the top excited for my cruise to see so many people nitpicking and complaining. I've been trying to stay away from this thread in general because people are really starting to bum me out by just bringing up all the negative. Was hoping this community would be more fun and positive (after all, it's focused on amazing vacations). I'm hoping that it goes back to the way you've described it soon! I want good vibes and fun stories in this thread!

[DreamingBig1]

Money speaks louder than words. The only way to change is to not give a company your displeased with your money. Posting on CC can have an effect on a cruise company. If people don't spend their money with them then that speaks louder. They are a business.

 

So change lines. See if there is a better product out there.

 

I can't wait to try NCL out, however of I'm not impressed with their product I am definitely not afraid to try something else.