Tux Question

[mudscraper]

Wear the Tails if you are planning to play the piano.

[david,Mississauga]

After viewing what passed for formal on a recent Alaska cruise, I thought if I ever take another HAL cruise I would wear white tie and tails as a form of protest to the dumbing down of the dress code. Most likely I will not - wear tails, that is. I knew those of us in traditional black tie/dinner jacket/tuxedo (whatever you wish to call it) would be in the small minority, but I was a bit surprised to see some gents at second sitting wearing neither jacket nor tie. It was even more surprising to see two young men wearing T-shirts and baseball caps.

 

On approximately every third Atlantic crossing on Cunard I see one man in white tie and tails on the night of the Black and White Ball. One night in the Queen's Grill a gentleman in white tie and tails entered wearing his top hat and he handed his cape, stick and hat to the maître d' who accepted them without any look of surprise. That was the first time I felt under-dressed at sea:).

[Blue Mudshark]

So, semi-formal then?

No I never said that! HAL's idea of Formal is not tails, ...

HAL's idea of "formal" doesn't even come up to semiformal. They misuse the term "formal night" to mean something far more casual than semiformal.

[zerbot]

HAL's idea of "formal" doesn't even come up to semiformal. They misuse the term "formal night" to mean something far more casual than semiformal.

 

Why do we have to be stuck in mid-20th century definitions of formality? If things hadn't changed up to that point, we'd still be wearing powdered wigs. I'm unsure why so many people seem to have latched onto that point in time to resist any change going forward.

[take us away]

The semantics argument of 'formal' has been handled in many threads. We all have our preference as to terminology so maybe we should not start the feud all over again.

[visagrunt]

There are only a handful of professions in which a gentlemen might be called upon to wear white tie. Having been in one of them (diplomat), I have a handy set of rules. These are British/Canadian rules, American usage is either equally rigid (in diplomatic and military circles) or completely anarchic (in entertainment).

 

For full dress uniform, the appropriate uniform regulations of the service in question always take precedence over these rules. There are specific rules applicable to members of the Royal Family, especially with regard to decorations.

 

There only a few settings at which white tie is de rigeur:

 

1) Any event to which the invitation reads, "white tie," or "full dress."

2) Any evening event which takes place in a house of worship (contrary to contemporary wedding practice, it is a grave solecism to wear black tie in a religious setting).

 

The rules around white tie are very specific.

 

1) White tie must not be worn during the day. The cutoff is generally 6 pm, but it may be worn earlier if an evening event begins before sunset and will continue into the night.

2) The suit must be black or midnight blue. The trousers are uncuffed and double striped, although knee breeches and silk stockings may be subsituted (and are required for Knights of the Garter). The coat must have tails, and remain open. The waistcoat is white piqué, as is the front of the shirt (never pleats) and the tie. The shirt must have a wing collar. Shoes are patent leather without laces. Studs and cuff links for the shirt must match, and will typically be of silver or white gold, with white semi-precious stones such as mother of pearl.

3) Decorations are always worn with full evening dress. Men may wear one full sized neck order, one full size breast star and one ribband. All other decorations must be court-mounted miniatures, fitting on a single bar without overlapping. No boutonnière is worn with decorations; gentlemen who are not entitled to decorations traditionally wear a white boutonnière (gardenias are traditional, but not required). Ladies full evening dress must be floor length. Covered or exposed shoulders is often a question of local custom, and the hostess should be consulted if the invitation does not specify and local custom is not clear. Full evening dress can include a tiara or other headpiece, which is generally mandatory in religious settings. Ladies may wear a single, full-size decoration on a bow, or star and ribband. For serving diplomatic personnel, foreign orders and decorations may only be worn at events hosted by, or hosted in honour of the Head of State or the Head of Government of the nation concerned.

4) Full evening dress is to be avoided where the host has not specifically required it in the invitation, in order not to take precedence over the host.

 

It is for this last reason that I would never wear white tie aboard ship. The Captain is, effectively, the host, and he and his officers invariably wear black tie.

Edited May 24, 2015 by visagrunt

[GUT2407]

Black / No

[GUT2407]

Why do we have to be stuck in mid-20th century definitions of formality? If things hadn't changed up to that point, we'd still be wearing powdered wigs. I'm unsure why so many people seem to have latched onto that point in time to resist any change going forward.

 

 

I do.

[GUT2407]

Thank you (everyone) for the feed back. My DH's tux has no tails ( that was actually brought up by a friend....I thought 'too much', she thought not). However, if that is what my DH wanted, I wouldn't care. I believe in dressing for yourself, not others. He did mention that he was he was thinking of adding a white jacket to his mix of 'dress up' clothes and I think those look great myself. We live on a farm and rarely dress up so we enjoy the chance to clean up and make the effort to look nice.

 

 

Perhaps I misunderstood the original ??? but if that's what DH wants I say whatever floats his boat. He is meeting HAL's standard and that is, IMO all that matters.

[take us away]

 

It is for this last reason that I would never wear white tie aboard ship. The Captain is, effectively, the host, and he and his officers invariably wear black tie.

 

hmmm - have seen the senior officers in white tie on more than 1 occasion at the balls on board

[visagrunt]

I had the Scottish equivalent of white tie (lace jabot with a fly plaid) on my Holiday Cruise on the Amsterdam in 2013, just in case the New Year's Eve celebration featured any white tie.

 

The captain was in black tie. If New Year's Eve doesn't merit white tie, I don't expect any other day to merit it.

[TJ3rd]

I have a diverse view, if you have tails wear them. Where else are you going to be able to enjoy your Christian Dior tuxedo with tails!