Heads Up About UBP on Disembarkation Day

[tlancer78]

How is a "7-DAY" UBP not good on a "7-DAY" cruise? Perhaps, without our knowledge, NCL is giving us all a "1-DAY" sail free (with fees) promotion on a "7-DAY" cruise. Or, a new slogan......"NCL, eight days of fun (and fees), in seven days". Next......."8-DAY" DSC :-).

[bruadhin]

Was trying to give NCL the benefit without doubt before i board in way to long from now lol I was thinking if it could have something to do with where the promotion was given out and if it would go by our rules, but ya cant be it. Found a link on Florida's tax laws on promotional packages http://dor.myflorida.com/Forms_library/current/gt800035.pdf just crazy they can tax on food products not being profited on. Celebrity's got to paying the tax on the drinks. There is no way they could get away with that for at least 3 years. Its a bit clearer now but still mind boggling being taxed on free because of Florida lol

 

I am not surprised. Here we pay sales tax on basically everything. Only prescribed items are except, medications, lenses, medical devices, etc. We finally got a discount on sales tax on groceries, just 7% versus up to 9.75% depending on locale. I suspect the rules here on promotional food would be the same.

 

It also supports my view that Disney is taxing the Dining Plan versus the meals and then paying the tax on the Dining Plan when given as a promotion. Based on my quick scan, that would seem to meet the spirit and the letter of the rule. The cruise lines could do the same, but the tax on a few drinks individually while in port is almost certainly much lower than the tax on the entire package. So either they pay it or pass it on to the passenger while in Florida waters.

 

Also, something to remember, the UBP is not free. It is being given complementary to you, but it still has a cost and NCL is accounting for it in some manner. When you look at it that way, it helps see why the state feels they are entitled to taxes up on it.

 

So Carnival, NCL, etc. are doing nothing wrong by charging taxes on drink package drinks while in port. Yes, they could eat it like Celebrity appears to be doing, but their price point is also generally lower than Celebrity.

[xriva]

How is a "7-DAY" UBP not good on a "7-DAY" cruise? Perhaps, without our knowledge, NCL is giving us all a "1-DAY" sail free (with fees) promotion on a "7-DAY" cruise. Or, a new slogan......"NCL, eight days of fun (and fees), in seven days". Next......."8-DAY" DSC :-).

 

 

It is seven days. Leave on Saturday, return on Saturday. Saturday through Friday is seven days. The second Saturday, you get off the ship.

 

I've noticed some systems count embarkation day as day one, some as day zero. You spend more time onboard on embarkation day.

[esm54687]

Also, some states have laws governing "promotional unlimited drinks" (reason Pride of America does not offer it because of Hawaii's laws).... since it is Day 8 and you will be disembarking, the local laws may govern "unlimited" drinks especially if passengers will be spilling out onto the roadways, etc. May also be a liability thing that the cruise industry has been burned by before.

[buckeyefrank]

I am not a CPA. I would agree with you up to the last part. Where are restaurant meals not subject to sales tax? My experience is limited to Southern states and paying for meals. I seem to recall even paying sales tax in Florida and at Disney. I did not pay tax when using the Dining Plan at Disney, but I am pretty sure I saw tax on the receipt when paying on trips we did not have the dining plan.

 

Is it possible that Disney is paying the tax and has priced it into their promo when giving away the Dining Plan? I know if purchased or upgraded, tax is included in the purchase price.

 

You are absolutely correct and I was wrong. I was typing too fast and not thinking. Restaurants or eating in an establishment will incur a sales tax. Carryout food does not. Not sure how the cruise lines get around the sales tax on their specialty restaurants unless all food on a ship is considered take out.

[bruadhin]

You are absolutely correct and I was wrong. I was typing too fast and not thinking. Restaurants or eating in an establishment will incur a sales tax. Carryout food does not. Not sure how the cruise lines get around the sales tax on their specialty restaurants unless all food on a ship is considered take out.

 

Aren't all ships out to sea by the time the specialty restaurants open for dinner? The only exception may be New Orleans cruises as it takes a while to transit the Mississippi to the Gulf.

 

Also, I'm not sure of your distinction of take out? Using SNAP as an example, I have seen mentioned that hot prepared food is ineligible under SNAP, but cool food not ready for immediate consumption is eligible. To be more specific, Hunt Brother's Pizza is very common in small town convenience stores. To comply with SNAP, the pizza is purchased cold and handed to the customer who immediately hands it back to be baked. I understand Papa Murphy's follows a similar formula. Pizzas that have to be baked by the customer are SNAP/EBT eligible, those that are already baked and ready to eat are not.

 

In Tennessee there is a lower sales tax on groceries items and I believe it follows a similar distinction. If in a raw, unprepared state or at least requires cooking by the consumer, it is eligible for the lower tax rate. If prepared and ready for immediate consumption then it gets the higher tax rate.

[BudMan79]

Somewhat related to this topic--Keep in mind for Sunday-Sunday cruises, you cannot sell alcohol until 11am or even 1pm in some Florida counties on Sunday. For example it is 11am in Tampa(unless laws have changed) on Sunday.

That would be one small detail on whether or not you could order alcohol on the disembark morning.

[SuiteCruiser]

Just to add more to the mix. The Sky now includes all drinks under $15. You don't need to have your key card with you, so what are they doing about the tax at that point?

 

I'm guessing they are eating it on that one ship.

[hawkeyetlse]

The UBP on the Sky is not the same as the UBP on other ships. It is subject to distinct terms & conditions, but these terms still say "Your check may reflect applicable VAT and/or taxes for certain ports or itineraries".

 

There is no $15 limit on the Sky. That wouldn't make any sense for this ship, because the drinks that are included have no prices. They are simply considered to be complimentary on this ship (i.e. included in the cruise fare) and I guess that means there is no additional tax due.

 

If you order one of the non-included drinks while in Florida or the Bahamas, you still get charged and I expect your bill will have local tax added to it.

[SuiteCruiser]

The UBP on the Sky is not the same as the UBP on other ships. It is subject to distinct terms & conditions, but these terms still say "Your check may reflect applicable VAT and/or taxes for certain ports or itineraries".

 

There is no $15 limit on the Sky. That wouldn't make any sense for this ship, because the drinks that are included have no prices. They are simply considered to be complimentary on this ship (i.e. included in the cruise fare) and I guess that means there is no additional tax due.

 

If you order one of the non-included drinks while in Florida or the Bahamas, you still get charged and I expect your bill will have local tax added to it.

 

Interesting, their T&C's used to say you get the UBP included on the Sky, now it's changed I see. This makes more sense.

[joekatie]

Royal does NOT charge tax on drinks covered by the package while in FLorida ports.

[jimmcg29]

I think we are way off topic from what the original post was about but I am finding it interesting. I never really thought about it all that much. I am never surprised when some government is charging me a tax. Everyone is comparing it to specialty dining but is it really any different from all dining. NCL is not giving us all that food. When it is a promotion the only thing different is when you book the cruise you simply enter a promo code in a box. Does that make it a taxable event? I am not paying any more or less. Other than that what is the difference from all the food you get and drinks? You are charged a gratuity for drinks, but you are for the food as well.

 

Then I started to think maybe it is just alcohol. But that would not explain the tax on the soda. What is the difference between a free lemonade at the buffet and a diet soda? The only thing I can think of is entering the four letters in a box.

 

Then I thought maybe it is because some people pay separately for drinks. That must have something to do with it. But if I were in a land based bar and there was and the bartender gave me a free drink for my birthday or something is that a taxable event? If it is a 2-1 special I only pay the tax on one. What if they gave me a soda?

[Viva_la_Vida]

But on Celebrity you don't pay it. I guess Celebrity does, I don't know, but it isn't billed to the customer. My husband and I had quite a few drinks before the Celebrity Reflection left Miami!

 

Yup, same here both in Miami and Bayonne. I've never had to pay for gratuity or taxes on any drinks on Celebrity with the beverage package. Obviously I'm paying for it in my fare, but never after ordering one, I should say. I'm glad someone mentioned having to do this on NCL because I would have been confused. I was already surprised about paying the gratuity since that's also something Celebrity does not charge you for. We're glad to be trying NCL though and I will make sure and not order any drinks on the last morning :)

[ready2cruzagain]

I too was unable to get a mimosa on the last morning of my Pearl cruise in October and my Star cruise in November. Let me clarify I could get the drink but I would have to pay for it as apparently my UBP had did not include that final morning. I will 'test' the theory next month when I do a B2B on the Epic, turnaround day will just be a port day for me so I should be able to get an alcoholic beverage served.

 

As for the taxes, on the above mentioned cruises I was charged the tax in Miami and Tampa.

 

I wonder how it works on the Sky now that it is all inclusive on the ship as far as alcoholic beverages are concerned? Anyone with recent experience? Miami is the exact same port regardless of which ship sails out of its waters. So the policy should be the same but it also doesn't seem right when those drinks are included in the base fare and taxes have already been paid on that?

 

 

Rochelle

Please let us know how it goes with the b2b. We are booked on the Epic on a b2b and wondering if debarkation day (for others, not us) we will be able to get a drink.

[bruadhin]

 

Then I thought maybe it is because some people pay separately for drinks. That must have something to do with it. But if I were in a land based bar and there was and the bartender gave me a free drink for my birthday or something is that a taxable event? If it is a 2-1 special I only pay the tax on one. What if they gave me a soda?

 

Odds are, the bartender won't ring the drink and if it is bottled beer he will put it down as breakage. So effectively, the drink never existed. Were he to get caught he could lose his job and endanger the bars liquor license (much more likely to get caught by the manager/owner and fired, the state ABC finding out is beyond unlikely).

 

Same with a soft drink. If it is a fountain no one will ever know and considering how cheap syrup is the management probably wouldn't even care. A can/bottle, and it just goes down as shrinkage. Again, if the state tax authorities found out it would be a big deal but again the odds are beyond remote unless they were already looking at the establishment for other reasons.

 

2 for 1, it will depend on the state tax laws. You MAY pay tax on both drinks or just the purchase price (the more likely result). Most bars/restaurants use computer based POS terminals, so they handle computing the tax for payment and generate the data necessary for the backend systems when submitting taxes and reports to the appropriate body.

[cml4958]

Also, I'm not sure of your distinction of take out? Using SNAP as an example, I have seen mentioned that hot prepared food is ineligible under SNAP, but cool food not ready for immediate consumption is eligible. To be more specific, Hunt Brother's Pizza is very common in small town convenience stores. To comply with SNAP, the pizza is purchased cold and handed to the customer who immediately hands it back to be baked. I understand Papa Murphy's follows a similar formula. Pizzas that have to be baked by the customer are SNAP/EBT eligible, those that are already baked and ready to eat are not.

 

In Tennessee there is a lower sales tax on groceries items and I believe it follows a similar distinction. If in a raw, unprepared state or at least requires cooking by the consumer, it is eligible for the lower tax rate. If prepared and ready for immediate consumption then it gets the higher tax rate.

 

I work as a sales tax auditor for Missouri. We have a reduced food tax rate. You are correct in that things eligible for SNAP are ones that can be purchased at the lower food tax rate. In order to be eligible for SNAP, it must be for home consumption. No hot items are eligible for SNAP. Fountain soda is eligible for SNAP if a straw is not in the drink when brought to the counter. If there is a straw in the drink, it is for immediate consumption.

 

Here's a link for the program...

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-snap

 

Carrie

[pieshops]

makes 100% sense.

 

If it was embarkation to debarkation it would be 8 days, you are only paying for a 7 day cruise

[bruadhin]

I work as a sales tax auditor for Missouri. We have a reduced food tax rate. You are correct in that things eligible for SNAP are ones that can be purchased at the lower food tax rate. In order to be eligible for SNAP, it must be for home consumption. No hot items are eligible for SNAP. Fountain soda is eligible for SNAP if a straw is not in the drink when brought to the counter. If there is a straw in the drink, it is for immediate consumption.

 

Here's a link for the program...

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-snap

 

Carrie

 

Thank you for the clarification. Home consumption really helps clarify.

 

Whether or not a straw is in the drink when purchased seems like such a fine distinction. Do the clerks even pay enough attention and does the register even give them a way to make such a distinction?

[cml4958]

Whether or not a straw is in the drink when purchased seems like such a fine distinction. Do the clerks even pay enough attention and does the register even give them a way to make such a distinction?

 

The convenience store owners that I've worked with have decided to make fountain sodas high tax. They can't expect the employees to make the distinction, and quite frankly, a fountain soda in my opinion is for immediate consumption regardless of the straw. If you want to drink it later, get a bottle or can!

 

Carrie

[luckyinpa]

i've glanced through this thread again.

 

in summary is it true you cannot even get free fountain soda for bfast the day you walk off the ship?

[goofy4mickey]

Disney includes the tax in the per day fee

[esm54687]

i've glanced through this thread again.

 

in summary is it true you cannot even get free fountain soda for bfast the day you walk off the ship?

Correct.

 

Example based on 7 day cruise:

 

The UBP or Soda Packages are for 7 days......

 

Embarkment is Day 1

Disembarkment is Day 8

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-T700 using Forums mobile app

[esm54687]

You are absolutely correct and I was wrong. I was typing too fast and not thinking. Restaurants or eating in an establishment will incur a sales tax. Carryout food does not. Not sure how the cruise lines get around the sales tax on their specialty restaurants unless all food on a ship is considered take out.

Actually carry out does incur tax...... by a meal at McDonald's or Dunkin Donuts or a pizza place or a coffee at Cumberland Farms ...... all charge tax

 

Sent from my SM-T700 using Forums mobile app

[esm54687]

Please let us know how it goes with the b2b. We are booked on the Epic on a b2b and wondering if debarkation day (for others, not us) we will be able to get a drink.

I would assume your second "7 day UBP package" would kick in and that would be Day 1 for you not Day 8

 

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[rochelle_s]

Please let us know how it goes with the b2b. We are booked on the Epic on a b2b and wondering if debarkation day (for others, not us) we will be able to get a drink.

 

I was able to get a mimosa on the morning of our turnaround day. which would by others calculations be Day 11 of first cruise and Day 1 of second.

 

 

Rochelle